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Cory Gardner struggles with Obama birth question

by: BobMoore

Thu Aug 20, 2009 at 06:42:05 AM MDT


(Oh no, Gardner's a "birther" too? We had such high hopes for him. - promoted by Colorado Pols)

UPDATE 1: The audio from the Wednesday night meeting can be heard here: http://www.coloradoan.com/apps... 1221097202

UPDATE 2: Campaign manager says Gardner believes Obama "most likely" a citizen. http://www.coloradoan.com/arti...

Cory Gardner, the frontrunner for the 4th Congressional District Republican nomination, answered a question about President Obama's birthplace Wednesday night by saying "the administration is trying to say he was born in this country."

Gardner struggled as he responded to this question at a town-hall meeting in Fort Collins: "Do you know for a fact if Barack Obama was born in the United States?"

After initially trying to parry the question with a joke -- "I don't know if you were born in this country" -- Gardner waded in. Deep.

"Based on what they've shown, what they've tried to say, I think the administration is trying to say he was born in this country. I know what everybody else knows."

By this time it became clear the questioner was a Democrat. The man, who didn't give his name, followed up: "My question is, my question is then why do so many Republicans refuse to believe that he was born in this country?"

That led to calls from the audience of "Show me the birth certificate."

For a transcript of the exchange (and hopefully soon an audio file) see my Coloradoan blog here: http://bit.ly/7eTyG  
BobMoore :: Cory Gardner struggles with Obama birth question
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Cory Gardner struggles with Obama birth question | 69 comments
This is my suggestion to the Republlican Party
and moreover, to the hardworking folks in the party that are doing the heavy lifting (phonebanking, fundraising, knocking on doors--the folks that deserve 90% of the credit for keeping their party afloat with their dedication, time and dime)--find someone, anyone--the higher ranking in the party, the better--and have them denounce this shit once and for all. This crazy talk that our president isn't a US citizen is what makes your party look like the lunatic fringe. It's what prevents folks from even considering putting your people in office.

Come out hard. Come out strong. But for God's sake, come out publicly, loud and clear, and remind folks that the policy differences you have with this President are more than enough to differentiate yourself from Obama and the Democratic Party. You don't need to detract from your ideals and your message with this crazy talk which only serves to undermine your entire platform and purpose.

"What or who do you serve? MOTR?" Sharon Hanson  

Why would they do that?
The rank-and-file believes it.

When I use lots of words, they always form an analysis (and, while producing high volume, also produce high information-density).
--Steve Harvey, 2009
[ Parent ]
I hope you are wrong.
I really do but I have a feeling you may be right.

But I can't help but think that there are more than a few Republicans out there who think this birther crap is just batshit crazy. And if they do, they need to speak up because the voices of the sane in the Republican Party are being drowned out, more and more, year after year, by the crazies.

Susan Collins from Maine said it better than I ever could, when Specter left the Republican Party. Sadly, it appears the Republican Party has largely ignored or marginalized the sane within their own party.

"What or who do you serve? MOTR?" Sharon Hanson  

[ Parent ]
Lou Dobbs
That guy continues to hound on this issue, why he doesn't believe that the HI certification of live birth isn't valid is beyond me.
[ Parent ]
It's not just that
Many of the birthers aren't sure Hawaii is part of the United States, so even the certification isn't enough.

"Please don't eat any peanuts out of anyone's crap." - LaughingBoy
[ Parent ]
It's quite foreign and exotic


We are all triguardian, but some of us are more triguardian than others.
[ Parent ]
As are dark-skinned peoples
To a lot of Republicans, apparently.
[ Parent ]
???
Seriously?

I respectfully think you guys are really missing your focus here.  Concentrating on this idiotic birther and racist stuff almost as a ruse to ignore what's really going on with a majority of Republicans that are neither birthers or racists.  

McArdle had a great take on it:

Talk of death panels and crazy signs is, if polls are to be believed, a tiny fringe of the many Americans who do not like this health care plan much.  It's even, as far as I can tell, a small minority of the many Americans attending town hall meetings to harangue their congressmen.  Democrats appear to think that blowing those people up into the totality of the movement will help them win the PR battle on healthcare.  I suspect this will do more harm to the Democrats, and their ability to effectively deliver their message, than it will to the conservatives.

I think the miscalculation is on the fact that this 'problem' a supermajority seems to be having with passing a bill is much more related to divisions within their own party, not some crazy, powerful new version of the VRWC that is somehow able to dictate policy while being completely out of power:

That is your problem.  A majority of Americans do not want what the "progressive" wing (20%?) of the Democratic Party is saying they will rebel over if Obama leaves it out.  Most Americans like their healthcare, and a majority do not want the government to run it, which is the end result of the public option.

So, casting most Republicans as racist or insane...

...is only going to work as a canard for so long.  

Zogby, not generally a Republican favorite, comes out tomorrow with a poll that puts Obama's approval at 45.3% and his disapproval at 50%.

And, et tu, WaPo/ABC News poll?

It almost seems like the harder he's worked to sell his healthcare reform program all summer, the more they've seen him speaking earnestly and well in town hall after town hall, the less confidence Americans have developed in the president.

There's a reason for that, and it ain't birthers and idiots with swastikas.

"Kevin and I will keep them out somehow -- even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is!"  

[ Parent ]
The reason being....
... that many Democrats and lefties are fed up with the way Obama is handling this situation. Here he is, still talking bipartisanship and giving up crucial ground on health care reform when he ought to be leading, rallying the troops, and getting this thing through Congress by hook or by crook. If he did that, his numbers would be a lot better because only hardcore 'pubs, libertarians and Larouchies would disapprove.

Now, as far as the birther and swastika dopes packing loaded rifles are concerned, they're the ones showing up to town hall meetings and getting press coverage because they're more interesting and newsworthy than anyone who is conservatively dressed, polite, and can ask a lucid question. That's nothing new; if you want someone to watch your news program, read your paper or your blog, you better deliver something that will catch the public's attention.

Now, back to your point. Are they really just a "small number" or are they representative of a much larger segment of the population at large? That's hard to say. But the various polling outfits do consistently show that large numbers of self-identified Republicans think there's something fishy about Obama's origins, and that's scary because you can only think that if you're gullible. I don't know what GOP circles you run in, LB, but they seem to always be in a decidedly small minority in these polls.

"Fine, let's take a vote. Who wants fish for dinner?...Yeah, democracy ain't so fun when it fucks you, huh?" - shitmydadsays

[ Parent ]
Do you have any proof
the majority of Republicans are not birthers? Every poll I've seen puts a healthy majority of Republicans who think Obama probably wasn't born in America.

As for racism, it's kind of hard to poll it, but I'd like to see some kind of proof before I start thinking more than a handful of Republicans aren't serious hardcore swastika-tattooing sheet-wearing racists.

I want a nickel every time someone uses the "We are all triguardian" joke, or I start posting more naked pictures of politicians.

[ Parent ]
Do you think of me that way?
As for racism, it's kind of hard to poll it, but I'd like to see some kind of proof before I start thinking more than a handful of Republicans aren't serious hardcore swastika-tattooing sheet-wearing racists.


"Kevin and I will keep them out somehow -- even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is!"  
[ Parent ]
Hey, I allowed for a handful of exceptions
But seriously, have you seen any polls where they ask people about their views on race, then break it down by party? There was a famous poll where they found that some white Democrats agreed with at least one negative stereotype about black people, but they never said anything about how Republicans responded. I'll retract the comment if I see a real poll that says most Republicans don't have racist views.

I think one reason people haven't done such a poll is that the results might make some people uncomfortable.

This is an interesting result, for example.

You made a statement that the majority of Republicans were not birthers, and a majority were not racist. (Actually you said a majority were neither one, which is a more demanding statement that I won't hold you to.) I'd like to see some evidence of that.

I want a nickel every time someone uses the "We are all triguardian" joke, or I start posting more naked pictures of politicians.

[ Parent ]
That link is fascinating SXP
LB, I don't think you're racist.

I do however think that you, as a rational, reasonable Republican, are getting held hostage on this issue by the same people you are firmly behind on the health care debate.

We are all triguardian, but some of us are more triguardian than others.

[ Parent ]
I don't see it.
I'm pretty connected, in terms of being at least around some of the Republicans that get denigrated often on this site, and I've never heard a racist or just wacky comment (birthers) come out.

The racist stuff doesn't fly with me (as both of you and some others on the site can probably vouch for, in terms of who I am and what I do) and I just don't see it in the party here.

I know it's anecdotal, but I really believe it's being used as a panacea by some folks for why people don't want this 'reform' at this time.

SXP, you really can't believe that only a handful of R's aren't racist, do you?

"Kevin and I will keep them out somehow -- even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is!"  

[ Parent ]
I only know a handful of Republicans personally
and the rest, for all I know, are racist. They say the plural of anecdote is not data. I'd like to see some data.

I certainly think, given the evidence we've seen recently, that the burden of proof is on Republicans to show that they're not racist. Speaking collectively, of course.

I want a nickel every time someone uses the "We are all triguardian" joke, or I start posting more naked pictures of politicians.

[ Parent ]
Wow...
So your premise is that unless someone proves to you that they are not racist, then they are?

And what proof would you like, a note from mommy, a letter from a friend who happens to be a minority, a donation receipt to the Obama campaign?

That has got to be one of the most asinine comments that I have ever seen on this site and is a pretty good explanation of why I, as well as many others, stopped posting here.

A statement like that is probably the most bigoted thing that I have seen in a while.

Denver Broncos... Still Suck!

[ Parent ]
And you came back to post this?
Thanks so much for your valuable contribution.

As I said several times, I want to see polling data, not letters from mommies or token minority friends. I want to know what Republicans think on average through statistical measurements. Do you have a lot of trouble with reading comprehension?

You probably drive like a white guy too.

I want a nickel every time someone uses the "We are all triguardian" joke, or I start posting more naked pictures of politicians.

[ Parent ]
Hmmm
You probably drive like a white guy too.

Sounds like you a making a racial comment there.  Can you prove you are not a racist?

Denver Broncos... Still Suck!

[ Parent ]
I'd find this site irritating too
if I couldn't extract meaning from the things I read.

I want a nickel every time someone uses the "We are all triguardian" joke, or I start posting more naked pictures of politicians.
[ Parent ]
This is why most of us dont waste our time....
Party of tolerance, my ass.

If anyone here is a bigot, it is you.

Denver Broncos... Still Suck!

[ Parent ]
If only I were more tolerant of intolerance!
Of course, the real racists are the ones who still think racism exists, and that white people are the primary practitioners.

I want a nickel every time someone uses the "We are all triguardian" joke, or I start posting more naked pictures of politicians.
[ Parent ]
I hold to the view
that Republicans and Democrats operate from vastly different worldviews. Being a fan of historic "conservative" political theorists, I think modern American conservatism is really an expression of a unique and self-referential set of cultural doctrines--not a philosophy and arguably not even a set of values. Every year it has less and less in common with historic conservatism (one reason why you see a fad among GOP operatives for radical Left resistance tracts). Modern "liberalism" is a total mess that's even worse, because it lacks American conservatism's really disciplined vocabulary that repetitively reinforces its worldview through members' constant use.

However, I think we are seeing the this previously effective system of conservatism is under great pressure, because (a) it's been thoroughly delegitimized to anyone not inside the ideological tent, and (b) the vocabulary and concepts are collapsing into ever smaller and more meaningless uses. That's why right wing rhetoric increasingly resembles newspeak or some parodic random generator.  

This ties into racism because I don't think there is anything inherently racist about conservatism or the Republican Party. However, racists can exist quite comfortably within this ideological framework. With a bank of code words and dog whistles, a racist can situate themselves quite comfortably into the Republican Party. If that seems unfair, blame Richard Nixon. It's no accident Southern neoconfederates dominate today's 'mainstream' GOP; they were a deliberate part of Nixon's constituency building "Great Society" that led to decades of Republican dominance and 'lost' the South for the Democrats.

Nixon mobilized the cadres of resentment--and some times that resentment comes across as racially-motivated. Having trogs like Pat Buchanan (an architect of this policy) become a party statesman just increases the plausibility of this analysis. It's up to Republicans to decide whether they can accommodate reactionary ideology and tactics as the core of their partisan identity. But to do that, the entire ideological framework of American conservatism needs to grow and develop--the discipline of decades past has led to incestuous and empty concepts that have been discredited to the public.  

"It is hard enough to remember my opinions, without also remembering my reasons for them!" - Nietzsche  

[ Parent ]
This was pretty dense, but I think I agree with most of it
The word conservative, the label they chose for themselves, says a lot.  They don't like change.

Rights for outside groups, whether unlanded men, Catholics, women, minorities or gays, are something that conservatives have been fighting against since the founding of the Republic.

I don't think Republicans are necessarily racist, but it is easy for a racist to find a home in conservatism since the entire struggle of America has been allowing more people to enjoy the full bloom of American liberty and opportunity, and when standing for conservatism you are in essence standing for the past and against the future: a future where all Americans enjoy the rights the founding white property owning protestant males enjoyed (not fully accurate since there were Maryland Catholics and closeted Jews [and perhaps gays] amongst the founders).

Its also important to note that the Republican's used to be the party of liberals and the Democrats were the party of conservatives (some would still say the Democrats are the party of conservatives and the GOP is the party of something to the right of conservative).

[ Parent ]
They're called 'Independents'
these days

"Sen. Inhofe thinks global warming is debunked every time he drinks a Slushie and gets a brain freeze" Jon Stewart
[ Parent ]
Why do Matthews, Maddow, you, et. al. continue to give cred to those questioning the status of our President?
Why is MSNBC Allowing Matthews to Repeat "Deathers" Rhetoric as Maddow Debunks Him on the Same Day?


[ Parent ]
Why are you puting things in quotes without links?
I have an increasingly difficult time deciphering your posts (for which I accept responsibility).

Perhaps you have a program that strings together non sequiturs and random words to develop posts?  

http://www.bullshittor.com/

[ Parent ]
He doesn't need a program to do that!
I have a theory that Libertad is a liberal plant whose goal is to thoroughly discredit conservatives. Like Borat, only not so funny.
[ Parent ]
BorMe?


"Sen. Inhofe thinks global warming is debunked every time he drinks a Slushie and gets a brain freeze" Jon Stewart
[ Parent ]
Occam's Razor
Which is the simplest solution?

1) Libertad is a liberal plan who has us all fooled into thinking he's conservative.

2) Libertad is the Colorado Pols equivalent of a village idiot.


When I use lots of words, they always form an analysis (and, while producing high volume, also produce high information-density).
--Steve Harvey, 2009

[ Parent ]
Thanks for the website Dan
My boss can definitely benefit from using it.  Up his IQ immediately and make more sense. :)
[ Parent ]
Don't forget this
[ Parent ]
That's exactly right
No republican can win a primary in 6 or 4 without questioning the President's nationality for the reasons Middle of the road so succinctly said.

A poll released by Rassmussen of all people yesterday has Obama beating Palin 66-33 in a mythical 2012 head to head. That same poll had 73% of registered, admitted reds voting for Palin and the entire South as well. The vast majority of the country polled for Obama, but this demo is the republican base. And they aren't listening to anything but limbaugh, levin, the party line. 6 and 4 are the similar to the south clusterfox fixated robots that a candidate has to throw the red meat to in order to move to a general election.

Now that caplis has moved to birthering, signalling that it is the RNC's official position, and Gardner has committed to this grift as well, no repub Congressional candidate can hope to survive a primary without doing the same.

Ya can't make this stuff up.


[ Parent ]
Marist Poll
Sorry, the poll is Marist, not Rassmussen.
[ Parent ]
Dan Caplis, Peter Boyles... both birthers
And both pathetic.
[ Parent ]
not going to happen
Even Romney - the presumptive front runner* - finessed it last week while discussing his universal heal plan for MA.

The problem is the party has run so divisive and wedgey for so long that they don't know how to win without all the wedges motivated. And clearly the birther wedge is predominantly R.

What worries me is my friends on the left who are buying into the 'inevitable GOP resurgence' - or helping it for misguided reasons. JeffcoBlue Jan 2 2010

[ Parent ]
*front runner
Sanford, Ensign, and one or two others- scandalized

Palin is a quitter.

Perry is a secessionist.

Romney must surely be considered ahead of the remainder of the field from 08- Huckabee, McCain, etc.

What worries me is my friends on the left who are buying into the 'inevitable GOP resurgence' - or helping it for misguided reasons. JeffcoBlue Jan 2 2010

[ Parent ]
What about Pawlenty?
John Thune maybe? If Mitt Romney couldn't win the nomination last year, why would he be able to in 2012?

I do have to admit me must be considered the front-runner though.

We are all triguardian, but some of us are more triguardian than others.

[ Parent ]
Pawlenty
Pawlenty - I like him, but I don't think he can win the nomination.  
--He got saddled with a raw deal in the Senate race- a real no win with the R's.
-- MN is seen as overal "progressive" and RINO in the south and other Red states.
-- McCain passed him over
-- I can't find it now but there was a great piece last summer about Pawlenty as perceived outside the region- esp in the South and plains states where any R nominee must be a lock and he's not perceived to be

In any event- no way is he the front runner.

Colorado Rs went for Romney- and I think will again.

Jindal is a nut.
Sanford & Ensign - nuts and sex scandal.
Palin- nut, but learning, but she's a quitter.

Paul, Huckabee, Cheney, Gingrich, Crist- can't win. th e nomination.

DeMint- nut.

Eric Cantor, Mike Pence  Gary Daniels, Mitch Daniels.  - who ?

What worries me is my friends on the left who are buying into the 'inevitable GOP resurgence' - or helping it for misguided reasons. JeffcoBlue Jan 2 2010

[ Parent ]
don't you think Governor Josh Penry will be a hot commodity for the GOP national ticket in '12 ?

[ Parent ]
Will he be old enough?


"Please don't eat any peanuts out of anyone's crap." - LaughingBoy
[ Parent ]
Legally speaking, sure
Practically speaking... um... good luck with that.

We are all triguardian, but some of us are more triguardian than others.
[ Parent ]
Legally speaking
barely. He was born in 1976 so he'll just squeak into eligibility.

"Please don't eat any peanuts out of anyone's crap." - LaughingBoy
[ Parent ]
Yeah
I had to do the math too.

What exactly is the specific age requirement? Is it that you have to be 35 on the day you're inaugurated, the day you file, or the day you're elected? I can't find Penry's specific DOB anywhere, but he would probably just barely be eligible in any of the three cases.

At any rate, I don't think Penry is thinking White House... yet.

We are all triguardian, but some of us are more triguardian than others.

[ Parent ]
His specific DOB
does seem to be a mystery. I saw it once somewhere, but it's disappeared from his campaign site and his Wikipedia entry, which is in danger of being deleted because it's too much like an advertisement. Maybe he's afraid of identity thieves, in addition to barbecue thieves.

"Please don't eat any peanuts out of anyone's crap." - LaughingBoy
[ Parent ]
shouldn't we be demanding Penry's birth certificate?

[ Parent ]
That would be the obvious next step


"Please don't eat any peanuts out of anyone's crap." - LaughingBoy
[ Parent ]
If it doesn't have baby footprints
it's not real.

We are all triguardian, but some of us are more triguardian than others.
[ Parent ]
Sure... he'll be Palin's Quayle
Frightening thought.
[ Parent ]
Gardner is a professional panderer
But the unreported red meat feasts that work so well in Sedgwick County don't have quite the same effect in Larimer County, eh?  

"It is hard enough to remember my opinions, without also remembering my reasons for them!" - Nietzsche  
Absolutely
Cory was a Democrat in College and only switched when he took the political temperature after law school.  He was suddenly an arch conservative.

Since the pendulum has swung back he has kept quiet on many issues so he can reinvent himself as a more moderate Republican, but he can't help himself when he has the opportunity to pander.

[ Parent ]
Wow, that's some challenging logic you used to develop your .... ahem comment

[ Parent ]
Ha ha ha ha
Glad I wasn't taking a drink of coffee when I read that, Tad.

Snark, right?

"Sen. Inhofe thinks global warming is debunked every time he drinks a Slushie and gets a brain freeze" Jon Stewart

[ Parent ]
Si my freind

[ Parent ]
What's wrong Lib
If anyone can spot a wide stance, it should be you.

We are all triguardian, but some of us are more triguardian than others.
[ Parent ]
Why do you persist in degrading the GLBT community?
I understand the poking of me, but to continue to degrade a segment of the population shows a clear pattern of hatred.

You're like a little kid who runs around at recess calling people faggots and giggling ... except your an adult and you're doing the same thing.

Why?

[ Parent ]
Closeted homophobic Republican politicians
are such a huge constituency in the GLBT community too. Great point, Libertad!  

"It is hard enough to remember my opinions, without also remembering my reasons for them!" - Nietzsche  
[ Parent ]
your an adult too you know
On what planet do you spend most of your time Libertad?

We are all triguardian, but some of us are more triguardian than others.
[ Parent ]
CD 4's future
With CD4 GOPers having to primary before going up against Betsy it's going to be interesting to see how the pandering to the birther base goes. I'm thinking that going far enough right to win the primary will push them too far to win the general. Wishful thinking?
Unless Diggs returns guns blazing
there isn't going to be a primary, Gardner's clearing the field. That's the point -- he doesn't have to throw in with the crazies, at least not on this.

"Please don't eat any peanuts out of anyone's crap." - LaughingBoy
[ Parent ]
I'm not sure Diggs has it in him
For some reason Pols thinks he is a super candidate, but the fact is he only has one campaign under his belt - an easy victory lap for a small and low-profile city council district. And on council he distinguished himself as a nice enough fellow, but not particularly bright and bored by the work. I don't think he has the stomach for a CD-4 primary fight, it's a lot of miles, a lot of phone calls, and a lot of crazy bullshit. But I guess we'll see.  

Having Andrew Boucher for a GC is another not-so-good sign. Going by Cory Gardner's regular mentions in DC's insider rags, and the not-so-subtle boosterism from the NRCC, Diggs needs someone who can play in DC. Boucher can hustle the dealership owners in Fort Collins, but I don't think he draws much water in DC. Meanwhile, Gardner is locking it down.  

"It is hard enough to remember my opinions, without also remembering my reasons for them!" - Nietzsche  

[ Parent ]
Don't worry, Diggs is going to come back guns-a-blazin!
Diggs is a very genuine person and good fundraiser.  Just wait to see him in action first before giving Gardner the nomination.
[ Parent ]
I don't think it is wishful thinking at all
These are the same people who were convinced CONVINCED that trying to keep Terri Shaivo on life support was an absolute master stroke of political providence.

They really do believe that the general public also questions Obama's legitimacy to be president.  The Dems. really can't use this kind of sophomoric response in an ad but if it starts to peculate through the electorate that Gardner hangs with the crazies then he just cuts his own throat to feed this fantasy.

[ Parent ]
BWB on the issue of Terri S
Terri's death brings to a close a very tragic, human and personal event that has left everyone with a feeling of emptiness, regardless of what side of the issue you may have been on.

http://www.brainyquote.com/quo...  

"Sen. Inhofe thinks global warming is debunked every time he drinks a Slushie and gets a brain freeze" Jon Stewart

[ Parent ]
I know she's in the dust heap
But Marilyn Musgrave's intervention on the House floor has always been a favorite:
"When we talk about a permanent vegetative state, I am offended by that. Terri smiles and acknowledges the people that love her when they come to see her. She cries when they leave. How heartless are we to call somebody like Terri Schiavo a vegetable? What are we thinking?"


"It is hard enough to remember my opinions, without also remembering my reasons for them!" - Nietzsche  
[ Parent ]
He's not NOT a citizen


We are all triguardian, but some of us are more triguardian than others.
"MOST LIKELY"
Cory will "most likely" end up selling Bob Shaffer's margarita mix after his primary implodes.

And yes Cory, "I know what everybody else knows" about you and your "campaign manager."  

"Suddenly, it may be cool to be American again" - William J. Kole

Bob Shaffer's margarita mix
It's not a mix -- it's a pre-blended margarita, using the finest resposado tequila. Not too sweet, this golden concoction hews to a traditional margarita recipe. Gardner would be lucky to get a distributorship next year!

"Please don't eat any peanuts out of anyone's crap." - LaughingBoy
[ Parent ]
Cory Gardner is most likely sane
And ethical. I really don't have enough evidence to say for certain that he is a scumsucking, immoral bottom feeder.
Based on what they've shown, what they've tried to say
I think the Colorado Republican Party is trying to say he is both sane and has morals. I know what everybody else knows.

"Please don't eat any peanuts out of anyone's crap." - LaughingBoy
[ Parent ]
Cory Gardner struggles with Obama birth question | 69 comments
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