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May 10, 2006 08:00 AM UTC

Beauprez Assailed on Military Record

  • 314 Comments
  • by: Colorado Pols

From the Rocky Mountain News:

Congressman Bob Beauprez’s draft status during the Vietnam war came under scrutiny again Monday when a political organization launched the first in a series of Internet-based attack ads. In the 60-second spot, a Vietnam veteran wonders how Beauprez received a medical exemption for an ulcer that didn’t prevent him from playing two varsity sports in high school.

“On the one hand, Bob Beauprez was healthy enough to letter in two sports in high school and major in physical education in college,” says Jim Hudson, who served in Vietnam and currently is active in Colorado Veterans for America.

“On the other hand,” Hudson continues, “Bob Beauprez says he wasn’t healthy enough to serve our country when his draft number came up after college because of an ulcer he had shortly before this picture was taken.”

The photo, from Boulder’s Fairview High yearbook, shows the congressman in a three-point stance with the caption, “2 yr. letterman.”

The ad opens with photos of Beauprez in a flight suit and concludes with Hudson saying, “Dodging the draft then, taking the credit now. You can’t have it both ways, Bob.”

ProgressNow, a liberal advocacy group that produced the ad for less than $300, sent the link to 23,000 e-mail addresses in Colorado. It said 1,000 people had viewed the video within five hours, and 200 had electronically added their names to a petition calling for Beauprez to disclose his medical records from that time.

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314 thoughts on “Beauprez Assailed on Military Record”

  1. From the “Wednesday” Thread. There are other good comments on the “Wednesday” thread regarding this article. I ask those who posted on it to also post their comments here.

    Posted by Draft Dodger Bob

    May 10th, 2006 at 9:32 am
    I give Michael Huttner credit…Pretty good ad. Click on the link and view the ad below!

    http://www.progressnowaction.org/

  3. kudos.  The ad, whether you agree or not, is damn good.  Quality work for less than $300.00.  One thing I do know, ask any Vietnam Vet and they will tell you that BB isn’t sharing his military experience with his military supporters.

    People I know who are Vietnam Vets, either do not like him, or don’t know the whole story.  And Uncle Bob isn’t telling.

    http://www.coloradoconservatives.blogspot.com  Check out the You Went to War and We Stayed Home mini-poster.

    Isn’t it sort of hypocritical to have pasted Bill Clinton for dodging the draft and then pretending that it didn’t happen with Beauprez?  Interesting how the worm turns, isn’t it?

  4. Hey Question of the Day: This just in.  Seems the Beauprez peole say the M-16 is a motorized fighting vehicle. NOT!!!  Maybe it’s a fighter jet?  NOT!!! How about a PT boat? NOT!!!

  6. Posted by Tancredoite

    May 10th, 2006 at 9:24 am
    “”It’s not optional to wear the flight suit,” Marshall said, adding that the Beauprez campaign was not trying to use the photos to imply that the congressman had served.”

    That’s interesting because I don’t know of any Air Force Base that REQUIRES you to wear a jump suit when you tour their base. This is the problem with these non-serving pukes. Don’t know an M-16 from a Squirt Gun!

    Give us a break Marshall boy!

  7. There is no comparison to Clinton here that is even close to logical. Research Clinton’s avoidance of the draft–he didn’t get drafted because of his family’s political influence. He was classified as 1-A, but his family’s position in the community kept him from being selected. If you honestly think that you can influence the draft boards classifications, which is why Beauprez wasn’t eligible for duty, you are ignorant. They give you a physical and look at your medical history. If there is something that could act up under the stresses of war and impair your ability to fight, that is where it ends. This is just a non-story attack wrapped up in a pretty bow.

  8. Poor Bob.  He just can’t shake the doofus image.  Still, why would ProgressNow attack Holtzman, who 1-isn’t going anywhere? and, 2) serves PN purposes by attacking Beau Beau.  I love to watch the GOP fall apart.  Did you know, that Bush’s approval rating is the lowest of any prez other than Nixon and Carter.  So much for the ‘permanenet’ GOP majority.  Kind of like Hitler’s 1000 year reich.  So sad, Turd Blossom, so sad.

  15. Yeah, Voice of Reason, show me your purple-heart bandaid.

    Like you give a crap — you’re just pissed about getting burned with your own fire.

  16. Yes, I would agree with GOPWhores, the Republican’s are not only pull strings to dodge going to war, but then they profit from the wars they avoid.  War profiteering is an act of treason.  To use war for your gain is a disgrace.

  17. Did Karl Rove dodge the draft?
    by Rebecca Walsh
    Link to Article

    Except for a lapse of several months, Selective Service records show presidential adviser Karl Rove escaped the draft for nearly three years at the height of the Vietnam War using student deferments.
    Rove’s avoidance of military service during the Vietnam War has become an issue in an ongoing presidential campaign debate retreading the military records of President Bush and challenger Sen. John Kerry. Bush’s supporters have attacked Kerry’s war decorations and statements he made opposing the war. And Kerry backers insist Bush was quietly ushered into the protective ranks of the National Guard to avoid combat, then failed to fullfil the last months of his service obligation.  http://www.neilrogers.com/news/articles/2004092003.html

  20. Swift Boat,

    No, I just actually try to stick to facts. It’s this funny thing called the truth. Don’t worry, you aren’t alone, most liberals don’t understand it either.

  21. Senator Frank Lautenberg (D-NJ) spoke eloquently about the cost of war on the Senate floor last week and was especially pointed in his remarks for Republican chickenhawks who talk a great game but seldom seem to serve in the military themselves.

    “Yesterday, there was debate between two of our colleagues,” said Lautenberg. “One was Senator Kerry, who served in Vietnam, decorated for that service, the other was the Senator from Colorado, who was harsh in his criticism of Senator Kerry’s speech on Iraq.”

    Lautenberg was referring to Senator Wayne Allard (R-CO)
    http://www.democrats.com/node/8523

  22. http://www.nhgazette.com/news/chickenhawks/politicans_platoon/

    Roy Blunt: Born just about the right time for Vietnam, somehow Blunt was at Southwest Baptist University when he could have been keeping the ‘Cong out of Chillicothe, MO.

    Saxby Chambliss: There are chickenhawks, and then there are chickenhawks. Saxby Chambliss is a chickenhawk supreme. He got himself elected to the Senate by casting aspersions on the patriotism of the incumbent, Democrat Max Cleland. Cleland lost three limbs serving his country in Vietnam. Saxby Chambliss was unable to serve because of his bad knees, but somehow is able to totter along as a recreational runner. 

    Tom DeLay (Indicted): One of our most-nominated chickenhawks, Mr. DeLay has said he wanted to serve in Vietnam, but was unable to since all the positions had been taken by blacks and hispanics. We suspect there might be someone in Iraq today who would be willing to trade places with Mr. DeLay…

    Newt Grinch:  A virtuoso in the art of hypocrisy, the former Speaker of the House now claims the Vietnam War was a splendid idea, but at the time he opposed going himself. Newtie also speaks highly of morality, but as a serial adulterer he doesn’t want to get too close to it himself. 

    Denny Hassert: Dennis wasn’t able to serve in the Army in Vietnam because his knees weren’t up to it. He did OK as a wrestler in college, though.

  23. I will start:

    Roy Blunt, Bob Beauprez, Saxby Chambliss, Tom Delay, Newt Gingrich, Denny Hastert, George W. Bush, Dick Cheney…

    That’s 8 just off the top, most pulled from GOP chickenhawks above.

    Let’s see how many Republican chickenhawks we can name today. Post the new total with any new names you add.

  26. Oh man, this is too easy.  I’ll just do the talking heads.

    Rush Limbaugh got out of Vietnam thanks to an ingrown hair follicle on his ass.  No, really, that’s what a pilonidal cyst is.

    Bill O’Reilly used his college deferment to stay out of Vietnam, although he often criticizes those who did the same.  Actually Falafel Bill was studying abroad in London in 1969.  Bill Bennett also used a deferment.  Ditto Brit Hume.  Tony Snow too.

    Matt Drudge was eligible for Gulf War I.  George Will stayed out of Vietnam while he was in divinity school.  Sean Hannity loves this war, but couldn’t be bothered to enlist during Gulf War I, although lots of guys his age served then.  Ann Coulter calls for the death of anyone who criticizes the conduct of this Iraq War, but what was she doing during the previous Persian Gulf conflict when she was eligible to serve?

    Chris Matthews, Michael “Savage” Weiner, Bill Kristol, Paul Gigot, Michael Medved: did not serve.

    They had other priorities.

  30. Another day for Boy Marshall to be on defense and whine.  Are there no adults who can get ahold of Beauprez and explain to him that if there was anybody of substance on the other side beyond the twin dwarves of Ritter and Holtzman that he would be sliding down the slope to defeat?

  31. Take a look at many of the Democrat candidates in tight congressional races across the country… they’re veterans of Vietnam and Iraq.  Does that count for anything anymore in the wake of the successful Rovian deconstruction of Kerry’s service?  We’ll have to see come November.  I don’t hold out much hope.  People seem to be fine with 2,500 dead soldiers in a pointless war.

    As for Beauprez, he’s a one-dimensional fool.  Elect him at your peril, Colorado.

  32. McNichols, Love and Romer served in the military. Lamm, Owens, and the Gov-to-come didn’t. I served six years, one of my brothers who wanted to enlist couldn’t because he had asthma as a kid. Is this really an issue? I think not.

  35. If you honestly support our troops, learn more about these men who earned their uniforms…

    Jay Fawcett Democratic candidate for CD-5:
    “At seventeen, Jay arrived in Colorado Springs, reporting to the Air Force Academy as a Cadet with the class of 1977. Upon graduation he went to Navigator training and was selected as a Weapon Systems Officer in the F4 Phantom, serving in fighter squadrons in Korea and Spain.”

    Bill Winter Democratic candidate for CD-6:
    “Bill joined the Marine Corps when he was 17 and went to boot camp just a couple weeks after high school graduation. He served in the Marine Reserve for four years in an artillery unit.”

    AND!!

    “Almost immediately after the Orange Bowl, he left for basic training again, this time in the U.S. Navy. He joined the Navy to pay for the last year of college, to learn a skill, and to see the world. Bill was chosen Outstanding Recruit in his basic training Company, and subsequently earned honors and awards at every posting he had in the Navy. He spent several years working on F-14 fighters at NAS Miramar in San Diego and various aircraft carriers.”

  36. This doesn’t really make sense to me.  If the military doctors wouldn’t clear him for service because he had an ulcer, how is that his fault?

  39. Last time I checked, Karl Rove isn’t running for office, you lily-livered liberals.

    Military service does not trump belief in the Constitution.

    You all sound like a bunch of whining kids.

    And you reveal your naivete by pasting conservatives with Bush. We don’t like Mr. Pro-illegals, big-spending, RINO endorser either.

    Of course, we vote for him because you dolts can’t come up with better candidates than Clinton or Kerry.

    AND PLEASE, PLEASE, RUN HILLARY SO I CAN DO REALLY GREAT IN FUNDRAISING FOR RIGHT-WING KOOK CANDIDATES (who believe in the Constitution)! YOU LIBS ALWAYS PULL THE GOP’s CHESTNUTS OUTTA THE FIRE FOR US!!! THANKS!!!

  40. In a 1970 article in The New York Times, Curtis W. Tarr, the director of Selective Service, said the rising number of medical deferments — from 24.2 percent of those examined in 1966 to 40.7 percent in July 1969 — was causing alarm in Washington.

    “It’s one of the real inequities left in the system,” Mr. Tarr said, because young men from wealthier families could afford to pay for tests that might uncover some deferrable medical condition.

  41. And, if we DO lose the White house, that’s OK, the GOP will go back to its roots and pick up more seats in the House and Senate, and make the Dem sign 7 of the 10 items into law from the GOP next version of the Contract with America.

    The Slick One did.

  45. Technically Bolton dosen’t hold elective office, ie. appointed to Amb. to UN, but I still think it should count.  If not, then I respectfully submit Dan Quayle.

  46. I think so too.  I was just helping our the strangely silent Voice of tReason, who called us all lily-livered since I listed Karl Rove (presumably the only one (of, what is it now–28) of the GOP chickeh hawks listed.

  47. Rush Limbaugh receives a military classification of 1-Y (fit for service only in time of war), thus avoiding the draft. There is some dispute on the reason for this, but Franken cites Limbaugh’s brother recounting an unsusual medical condition: “Limbaugh avoided the draft because of a pilonidal cyst at the base of the spinal cord in which excess tissue and hair may collect, causing discomfort and discharge. As disgusting as this sounds, there is no evidence that Limbaugh’s cyst contributed to the breakup of his two marriages.” But this conflicts with a transcript of Limbaugh’s radio program:
    CALLER: And Rush, you never mentioned how you dodged the Vietnam draft.
    LIMBAUGH: I didn’t.
    CALLER: Yes, you did. You claimed you had a boil on your butt —
    LIMBAUGH: No, you see, that’s part of popular mythology that is out there that I have not whined nor complained about, Greg. But that is just a bunch of Internet B.S. and hyperbole. Never happened. Was not the cause; wasn’t the case.

  50. Love you people who support a party whose Anointed Leader  says he “loathes the military” – then bash anyone who didn’t serve.

    And now you’ll elect his wife!!!! HAHHAHA!!! You guys are funny.

  53. Sure, people can support a war and not serve in the military, and people in the military can oppose a war.  I have not served my country in that manner, and I oppose the War in Iraq.  The hypocrisy of GOP leaders blasting Dem’s service (see Saxby Chambliss, et al) is putrifying. 

    Blasting generals who served as traitors or with suspected motives just becasue they have the courage to stand up for soldiers and this nation and say it like it is:  Bush, Rummy & Co. have failed the American (and Iraqi) people.  Its shameful, its disgusting, its treasonous.

  54. Whore,

    That wasn’t me. That was Sam I Am. You can trash Karl Rove on a Colorado Politics site all you want for what I care. Maybe you all will be successfull in ’08 running against Bush again. It worked really well for you in ’04.

    As far as my input on this topic, see my posts above. I don’t have to beat a dead horse to make myself feel better, unlike others on this topic…

  55. Whore-

    So, like, what is your plan for world peace?  I mean, seeing that the GOP is trying to destroy the world, shouldn’t fine upstanding people like yourself get elected so that you can implement an alternative to the current group?

  57. Well I, for one, find it gratifying to see that Liberals have finally come around to seeing the importance of military service in the background of anyone running for political office. 

    I wonder – when did this new-found belief in the importance of military service begin?

    Oh – wait – I know… as soon as Bill Clinton left office.

  58. “Posted by Voice of Reason

    May 10th, 2006 at 10:53 am
    There is no comparison to Clinton here that is even close to logical. Research Clinton’s avoidance of the draft–he didn’t get drafted because of his family’s political influence. He was classified as 1-A, but his family’s position in the community kept him from being selected.”

    What the?!?!?!?!

    Clinton’s Mother was a nurse who raised Bill and his brother alone when his father died before Bill was born.  He did have a step-father, but he was an alcoholic and had no “political connections” to speak of.  I think you are mistaking Bush for Clinton.  Bush’s family was the politically connected one who got him the cushy assignment with the Mississippi National Guard when they still didn’t fight in wars.  Clinton got educational deferments, like Beauprez; unlike Beauprez though when he had exhausted those, his draft number never came up.

  59. LOL ColoradoDem. 

    Wow, that’s quite a yarn.  Clinton’s number never came up?  Fascinating story.

    The fact is, Bill Clinton’s number DID come up, and he’d received his induction notice.  So, he had his uncle Raymond (who was politically and socially connected) and a family friend (Henry Britt, a lawyer and former judge) pulling strings for him.

  60. When “Both Ways” was strutting around in his fly boy flight suit, did he happen to stand in front of that “Mission Accomplished” banner by any chance?

  61. re:  posting from Worst-Senator

    OMG, the Potted Plant spoke yesterday!  This is the political equivalent of Garbo speaks……

  62. I suspect few of those posting about the Vietnam era draft were old enough to be eligible. Many of us were declared 4-F or got student/family deferments. That’s how the system worked, and smart people worked the system, just as we do today.

    This really appears to be a non issue. The attacks are being made by anti-war lefties, for crying out loud. They have credibility?

    Since numerous politicians have won office despite not serving in Vietnam or in any military capacity, it seems highly unlikely that this story will do anything to help Ritter or hurt Beauprez.

    The left is having fun with the story, which will be forgotten by the primaries and general election.

    At least Beauprez is patriotic and supports the war on Islamic terrorism. I doubt you can say that about many of the lefties behind this attack or the bloggers and media types that are hyping the story so hypocritically.

    The flip side of this is that I resent it, and I think many others do, too, when politicians try to exploit their military experience. The old “I served in the trenches, and I’m ready to be a general” nonsense doesn’t wash any more than attacks on those who did not serve in the military.

  63. Bob Beauprez would most likely say one of two things. 1.) “I wanted to teach the world to play football.” Or 2.) “Stop being political.”

    Bob Beauprez wrote the book on avoiding war related issues without ever so much as picking up a pen. Remember him skipping the key Iraq vote? Of course he was taking credit for the tough stand that the Republicans made. I’m sure it was his leadership that inspired all of the Congressman would stayed and actually did there job.

  64. I don’t know about Clinton and the draft, but I did live in his “boyhood home” of Hot Springs, Arkansas for awhile, as did my folks until they died.
    From what they and locals would tell me, most people in the town want nothing more than to NOT be associated with the man. Most all or the residents liked his mother, but not him.
    I’m sure his service record, or lack of, had nothing to do with it. I think it was his lack of morals, more than anything.

  65. Seems like the MH campaign could easily paint BB as a academic underachiever (PE major), who avoided the draft, but still enjoys prancing around in a jump suit.

  67. Another skeptic,

    The flip side of this is that I resent it, and I think many others do, too, when politicians try to exploit their military experience.

    So how does it make you feel then when a politician like Beauprez tries to exploit military experience he doesn’t even have?  Dressing up in a flight suit for a photo op, then voting against veterans’ benefits?

    Of course military service is not a requirement for public office.  But hypocrisy like BB’s (and the scores of others mentioned here–don’t get me started again) is worth pointing out.

  68. As the guy that caught Beau Beau eating the banana, I wonder why anyone could want a man this intellectually challenged to lead this great state.  Let’s see, he’s not for Fastracs, he’s not for Ref. C, he’s for a $2 billion blank check for finding water where it ain’t, he’s for poking holes on the Florida coast, ANWR and increasing MPG by 1.8 mpg by the year 2011.  Bob is a walking, talking embarassment to PE majors.

  69. The attacks are being made by anti-war lefties, for crying out loud. They have credibility?
    by:  Another Skeptic 

    Why no, they don’t.  This flight suit issue is 2-years old. Didn’t matter then, doesn’t matter now.

  72. In order for a chickenhawk to be a chickenhawk, you have to vote for/cheer on war after you dodge the draft.

    Bill Ritter ever done that?

    It’s the hypocrisy…stupid…

  73. Oh yes another skeptic, let’s just pull out the old “they’re all just anti war liberals”. 

    Maybe it might have to do with the fact that people (regardless of political stripe) resent having their sons and daughters sent off to die needlessly in a seriously misplanned/mismananaged boondoggle by a bunch of country club R’s who hid behind their parents connections when it was their time to serve.

    Just maybe.  Nah, that would make too much sense.

  74. Like I said, I’m gratified that oh-so-suddenly that Liberals have come to realize that a politician’s military service is important.
    Using someone else’s ad hominem attack, “It’s the hypocrisy, stupid.”

  75. Another thing I’m glad about is that the United States military has far more stringent physical standards than the usual “turn your head and cough” physicals at most high schools.

  76. Remarkable, I don’t think you are getting the point here.  The point is the hypocrisy of those who dodged the draft who are all too willing to send others to war.  It’s not about every politicians military service, just the ones who dodged the draft and now are freely willing to send others to do the job.  Got it ?

    Now turn your head and cough.

  77. Oh I’m crystal clear on the point.
    What I find amusing is the way Liberals would like to FRAME the discussion of military service.  The term “draft dodge” is so flippantly stupid in this case it’s hilarious. 

    And of COURSE it’s not about “every politician’s military service”.  If it were, you’d be crowing about Bill Ritter’s.

    What’s funnier still is that Liberals didn’t care about service at all when a former President was the subject of the issue.  Even when he “loathed” the military.

  81. Which bears repeating, from ‘Another Skeptic’, above:

    Since numerous politicians have won office despite not serving in Vietnam or in any military capacity, it seems highly unlikely that this story will do anything to help Ritter or hurt Beauprez.

    The left is having fun with the story, which will be forgotten by the primaries and general election.

    There’s the point of this nonsense.

  82. It’s great to see the Limbaugh-ish redirection approach being used by so many on this site.  Instead of admitting that Beauprez was wrong in what he did, insulting not only our armed service members, our intelligence but also our american principles.  He is a disgrace to our state and is in no way fit to serve as Governor. 

    He is a pandering politician who cares only for his own political gain.  He cares nothing for the state of Colorado or it’s citizens.  I think it’s clearly an issue when a man repeatedly lies to take control of our state.

    Military service should be respected, revered and appreciated.  No matter your political affiliation you should be concerned with a man who “uses” the military for his own self greed.  As stated before, War profiteering, is treason.

  83. Lies are not so easily forgotten for those who think it will just fade away in a few months.  I would think if any, Rove has taught us that if repeat the rhetoric over and over and over, many will believe it to be true.

  84. If there are any Beauprez shills on this thread (if, lol) PLEASE stop the robo calls.  I don’t mind one or two a week, but three a day is ridiculous!

  85. Military service by itself isn’t the issue. Dodging military service, then voting to send subsequent generations off to fight — that’s hypocrisy.

    Again, this is obvious to everyone except Republicans who find it uncomfortable. So by all means, protest that guilt until you’re as blue as Colorado this November.

  86. Is it possible that silly attacks like this just might create sympathy for BB among independent conservatives who might otherwise sit this election out for a whole bunch of reasons?

    Nah! Negative campaigns always beat less negative campaigns, or almost always.

    Will Ritter let the hard left steal his campaign?

  87. I wonder of Beauprez is using Trailhead to make robo-calls?  I’m sure Owen, Coors and Benson would not mind since they are supporting him and have hundreds of thousands invested in Trailhead. 

    Trailhead is quite good at smearing the truth, so why not fudge Bob’s record to make him look good.

  88. Another Skeptic,

    Ritter is a middle of the road candidate and it must eat away at so many conservatives since the inevitable is about to happen.

  89. Ok, though redundant, I am reposting my first post on this thread. Maybe logic will help some people in this understandably emotional subject:

    There is no comparison to Clinton here that is even close to logical. Research Clinton’s avoidance of the draft–he didn’t get drafted because of his family’s (and family doesn’t just mean mom and pop) political influence. He was classified as 1-A, but his family’s position in the community kept him from being selected.
    If you honestly think that you can influence the draft boards classifications, which is why Beauprez wasn’t eligible for duty, you are ignorant. They give you a physical and look at your medical history. If there is something that could act up under the stresses of war and impair your ability to fight, that is where it ends. This is just a non-story attack wrapped up in a pretty bow (by ProgressNow).

  91. I wonder if Bob is keeping track?  There’s bllod on his partisan hands.  This is the gospel, Republicans proved they were weak on national defense when the first plane hit the first WTC tower. $400 billion for NATIONAL DEFENSE?????????  Anybody who has ever been in the military knows that chances are pretty good that one of every three people you run into is a Democrat, the other two are either independent or Republican.  Now 10 out of 10 war profiteers ARE Republicans. 

    US Killed in Iraq 2,428

    2,221 since George Bush said, “Bring ’em on”

    US Killed in Iraq from Colorado 33

    US Women Killed in Action 58

    California and Texas 254 and 214

    US Wounded in Iraq 17,869

  92. Pandering how? Pandering would be if he and his campaign actually used the photo. They don’t, ProgressNow does; yes, an anti-war, anti-military wacko left-wing group uses the military and military service to attack an opponent. You wanna talk about pandering???

  94. If you can not see this to be blatant pandering, Beauprez wearing a jump suit while out speaking for his campaign in an attempt to stir military sentiment for campaign, you have your head buried in the sand. Speaking of losing all credibility….

  95. Rove has taught us that if repeat the rhetoric over and over and over, many will believe it to be true.
    by:  Same Song

    **************

    Which is exactly what the ProgressNow (and you) are doing in this thread.

    The big event happened two years ago.  It wasn’t an issue then, and isn’t now.  But of course, when it’s demogoguery, look to Liberals to be using it.

    And for the ignorant, it isn’t a “jump suit”.  It’s a flight suit. And he was wearing it because he’d just flown in a military jet aircraft.  So in terms of credibility, you have none to lose.

  98. What’s happening here? The GOP reaping what it sews!

    Let it be a lesson to all of you, from Karl Rove to Rachel Sunbarger. The hypocrisy laid bare with sweet irony. Death by a thousand swift boats! Go ProgressNow!

  99. Mike Collins:  Didn’t you just read Same Song’s posts?  Military service is to revered.  So why are you dishonoring the ones that made the supreme sacrifice by invoking them for POLITICAL GAIN?

  100. Are you running for office and have you used that for political gain?  If your answer is No, then it’s a “non-issue,” unlike or pandering politico beauprez.  Again, redirection.

  101. Posted by Same Song
    May 10th, 2006 at 6:58 pm
    If you can not see this to be blatant pandering, Beauprez wearing a jump suit while out speaking for his campaign in an attempt to stir military sentiment for campaign, you have your head buried in the sand. Speaking of losing all credibility….
    —-

    For the campaign huh? Is that why his campaign isn’t even using it? Is that why this photo is over two years old? It amazes me how many ignorant morons there are on this blog that have no idea what they are talking about.

  102. We are not “using” them in manner that Beauprez has.  We are pointing out that Beauprez is pandering to the military when in fact his own history and voting record, much like those who forced the US to war with Iraq, do not deserve to be in any elected position.  They pander for political gain….

  103. And same song, your name is actually pretty fitting, considering Mike Collins tried this two years ago in the CD-7 race when it picked up no traction the first time.

  105. You know, I don’t even care about the Confederate Air Force flight suit in ProgressNow’s ad. It just makes for a descriptive photo.

    Descriptive of a man who avoided military service himself, but will send YOUR kid off to die in a heartbeat. That’s “family values.”

    Cowardly, hypocritical “family values.”

  109. “much like those who forced the US to war with Iraq, do not deserve to be in any elected position.”

    And the truth comes out! If you aren’t anti-war and anti-military, you don’t deserve to be elected! Too bad for you the majority of Americans don’t agree with you. It is this wacko, out-of-touch left wing base that the Dems keep pandering to that is keeping them from winning national elections.

  110. Yes, attack those who actually served, not those who dodged military service, cut spending on military funding during a war, and wears a “flight suit” (thanks for correcting me on that remarkable since it makes no difference), and hides behind stump speech of being a “simple farm boy.”  Ha, typical rhetoric from the far right.

  111. Pointing out that you are wrong and have no idea what you are talking about, Same Song, is not attacking. It is telling you that you are wrong. And if you are so worried about people who pander for their own political gain, I surely wouldn’t listen to anything Mike Collins or ProgressNow puts out. The truth is, you are “concerned” about anyone who doesn’t agree with you.

  112. Funny that you’re separating “anti-war” and “anti-military,” since you’re trying to claim they’re the same thing. Which they’re not. Especially when Terra War Republicans like Beauprez have proven to be the worst thing that’s happened to it since Vietnam.

  115. Far from being anti-military, but I am against unjust wars. Again, attacking me does no good to the Beauprez campaign. 

    You call me a wacko when the overwhelming majority, 78% believe Congress is not doing it’s job, and 69% believe the President is not doing his job.  Where am I out of step?

  116. “Descriptive of a man who avoided military service himself…”

    How did he avoid military service? He was classified 4-F. It is like you think Coloradans are stupid enough to think that he just assigned himself the classification. You can’t control what you are classified as! Now, you can be like Clinton and have family members and family friends use their influence to keep you from being selected, but even Bill himself couldn’t stop the draft board from classifying him as 1-A.

  117. Voice of Reason, you really have not proved me to be wrong at any point.  You continue to spin this issue.  Now, if this was about Holtzman you would be on the opposite side of this debate. 

    However, let’s get back to the topic at hand.  Both Ways Bob panders for his own political gain.

  118. What about retired Lt. Colonel Jim Hudson, who narrated their video? Going to trash-talk him, too?

    Real interesting website of the group he’s speaking for. 

    With lLinks to:  Be The Change, Colorado Democratic Party, Arapahoe County Democratic Party, Leaders of Democratic Volunteers

    Yeah, real impartial group that is. 

    Sorry, slick, but having served in the military regardless of when or where doesn’t exclude someone who’s chosen the path of political hack.

    I salute LtCol. Hudson for his service to our country, but I disagree with his politics.

  120. No, the Bushies are bringing the military down from the inside. That’s why Donald Rumsfeld is always smiling.

    And you know perfectly well that the only way you can make “anti-war” stick (other than PROUDLY) is to amalgamate it with “anti-military.” You people have turned the phrase “support our troops” into Orwellian nonsense…

  124. referring to Lt. Colonel Hudson, not Voice of Reason arguments. 

    And, again, he has not proven me wrong, but he is trying to redirect the argument away from Beauprez’s record.

  125. “However, let’s get back to the topic at hand. Both Ways Bob panders for his own political gain.”

    Typical of the left, the only topic that you will accept is one that you agree with! When I point out where you are wrong, all of the sudden it is me changing the topic. Dissagreeing is not changing the subject… And please, do not tell me what I would do. This is a non-issue to me regardless of the candidate.

  126. Colorado Veterans for America are working hard to win our country and state back.  Colorado veterans number approximately 430,000, we need to get more of them involved in the political process to stem the assault on American democracy.  We don’t care if the Colorado veteran is a Democrat, Republican or  Independent, we need your experience,  credibility and passion to make government “of the people and by the people.” 

    (the above is from the ColoradoVeteransforDemocracy website).

    LOL

    Yeah, they don’t care if you’re a (D), an (R) or an (I)… but check their ‘Links’. 
    Oh, and look!  A really nice photo of the group with Howard “YYYEAAAAHHHH!” Dean!

  127. Remarkable and Voice of Reason have repeatedly claimed me to be ignorant, a moron and a wacko.  That is considered a personal attack.  And, as I stated, it does no good to the Beauprez campaign and it deflates your argument on this issue.

  131. It’s a pity you can admit that Beauprez was in the wrong.  Typical of the far right.  Preach personal responsibility and practice back-peddling.

  133. Yes.  Beauprez was “wrong” to have been found physically unfit for military duty by those DoD physicians. 

    What color is sky in your world?

  136. And again:

    Rove has taught us that if repeat the rhetoric over and over and over, many will believe it to be true.
    by: Same Song

  137. “Because he’s paid to.”

    That’s right folks, if you are on here posting and you dissagree with Democrats, you must be getting paid! Seriously, why else would you dissagree with a Democrat? Don’t you know they have the moral, logical, and god-given (unless you don’t believe in a god) authority?

    The reason I keep posting on it is because it is a non-issue, a non-story, and ProgressNow (who must be paying you, right?) is using it as propoganda. I am here representing the other side of the story, the one you don’t want told.

  138. Right, I was pointing out the tactics being used by those defending Beauprez on this blog.  They would rather back peddle, redirect and try to make another issue stick. 

    I would like to amend that phrase to say, what Limbaugh and Rove have taught us is that if scapegoat another and you repeat the rhetoric over and over and over, many will believe it to be true.

  139. Bob Beauprez claimed a five-year old ulcer that didn’t stop him from football and wrestling and majoring in physical education afterward to avoid the draft after numerous student deferments.

    Repeat as necessary. And don’t feel all slimey Karl Rovey about it because it’s ALL TRUE.

  142. Im not getting paid by ProgressNow or any other liberal group out there.  I never insinuated that you were getting paid by anyone, or that one party or the other has the moral high ground.  I

    It is sad to see this debate come down to that.

  143. This is all the fault of that little bastard Marc Holtzman. All of it.

    Back when I was getting ready for my SAT test for college, a very young Marc Holtzman came out to our dairy farm and opened the barn door. All of our cows ran away and I was up all night herding them back up. I was so tired I did really bad on my test. I had such a low score the only thing they would let me study at CU was Fisycal Education.

    But I made the best of it, played football, and met this hot chic… Then I met the lovely Claudia. I did okay with the cards that had been dealt me.

    Just when I was about to graduate from college my number came up at the draft board. I was very excited about serving my country. I envisioned going to Viet Nam and teaching those little Asian kids how to play basketball, football and baseball, while battling the Yellow Communist menace of course.

    This little kid came around the corner on a bike and buried his head right in my chest. Knocked me right down. I broke his fall and all he did was say. “Get out of my way jock!” and then road over to a man a little ways away. The man said, “Now Marc Holtzman, you apologize!” It was the same kid who had let our cows loose. And he didn’t even apologize… Just flipped me the finger.

    Well I was kinda shook up, but I still went to my induction meeting. When I walked in, they saw me limping from getting run over by Marc Holtzman on his bike and well, they told me I wasn’t healthy enough to be an American soldier. And they were right, because that next day when we played Nebraska, I was just off my game. Almost didn’t finish the fourth quarter I was hurting so much.

    Years went by before I saw Marc again. Then one day I thought, “Hey Claudia, let’s go to the air show!” And who did I see there but Marc Holtzman. He said “Hey Bob, these airplanes have very flammable fuel in them. You are a congressman; you should wear this green suit. It’s flame resistant… It’s not even an option for you Bob! You got to wear it!” So I put it on and when I gave my speech, there was Marc! Taking a picture!

    Well I know this Marc Holtzman. I know him for the cow chasing, bike run-overing, picture taking little bastard that he is. When I heard he was running for Governor, I knew what I had to do. So here I am! Don’t believe any of this vicious attack stuff from that scrawny little bastard, which will just divide our party when we need to be rowing together. I know how to row. Took a PE class on it at CU. Came right after Underwater Basket Weaving 101. Got an A+, so you can count on me to be the bestest Governor Colorado has ever had.

    Yours for Fizikal Phytness,
    Bob Beauprez

  144. Gee VOR, you sure are touchy about this. You’re taking it all very personally. Almost like you were the one who arranged this stupid fucking photo op in the first place.

    Go figure.

  146. Avoiding going to war isn’t like taking a sick day, though VOR would have us believe it is. If you can play football, you can go to war. Your father-in-law’s photo op, which you arranged, is coming back to haunt him.

  147. Easy there Same Song, don’t let this shill break you down. Hold together, like John McCain in the Hanoi Hilton. This too shall pass, and Bob Beauprez dodged the draft.

  148. “It is sad to see this debate come down to that. “

    Well, when you start in the gutter, you shouldn’t be too surprised to find that you’re all wet and smelly.

    You seem to be quite uptight about this, VORion.. how else to explain such filthy language?

    VOR:  The checks get cut tomorrow, I’ll make sure you’re on the list.  Wouldn’t want to miss that extra 5 grand every week now, would we?  ;^)

  149. Once again, the board physician looks at your medical records and gives you a physical. He then recommends to the board, based on your medical history and current physical, your classification regarding physical ailments. Beauprez couldn’t “claim” something–he wasn’t doing taxes. It was in his medical history, and as it was deemed something that could act up during a battlefield situation and impair his ability to fight, he was classified 4-F.

  150. Easy there Same Song, don’t let this shill break you down. Hold together, like John McCain in the Hanoi Hilton.

    Yes, it’s JUST like that experience, DDB.  So much for “revering” the military service members.

  151. Once again, the board physician looks at your medical records and gives you a physical. He then recommends to the board, based on your medical history and current physical, your classification regarding physical ailments. Beauprez couldn’t “claim” something–he wasn’t doing taxes. It was in his medical history, and as it was deemed something that could act up during a battlefield situation and impair his ability to fight, he was classified 4-F.

    No sense letting facts get in the way of the demagogues, VOR.

  153. Same song, I made the comment sarcasticaly that you were being paid by ProgressNow in context with the rest of my post. “zzyzx” made the comment “because hes paid to,” saying I was being paid, that must be why I was here. If it saddens you the debate has “come down to that,” talk to your colleague on this board.

  154. “Too bad he wasn’t declared 4-F until the very end, VOR. Your father in law must be hounding you about this.”

    Ok, I don’t get the father-in-law stuff, but as far as being declared 4-F at the very end; yep. He was in school for the rest of the time. Is that the problem you have with him? He got a higher education? Let me remind you Clinton was granted passes for being in school as well.

  156. “If you can play football, you can go to war.”

    I didn’t know that they assigned classifications in H.S. Football when they draft you to play for the team…

  158. Well in the context of the context of the conversational context, I would say, you’re definitely getting paid by him. Or maybe you’re connected to someone who has family ties.

    Or, may the context of the context of what I said contextually is wrong.

  159. “At least Voice of Reason is starting to admit the similarities between Beauprez and Clinton.”

    Hahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
    Now THAT’S funny!

    :^)

  160. “At least Voice of Reason is starting to admit the similarities between Beauprez and Clinton.”

    Yeah, and they both eat food too. Actually, I am college educated, so there is a similarity with Bill. Remarkable, you college educated? How about you mylanta? Geez, I know Howard Dean is, so does that mean he is just like me?

  161. Again, Same Song, to dissagree with you means that it is degrading. You can’t be serious. Oh, and was that a personal attack that you speak against so greatly??

  162. BB alert,

    So since you are often on here posting anti-Beauprez things, does that mean that you are getting paid or have close family ties to his opposition, whether it be Holtzman or Ritter? This “(fill in the name) is getting paid” argument is seriously one of the worst arguments that is used on Colorado Pols. If you dissagree with someone, you are automatically labled a “shill” by that person. It’s rediculous.

  163. Beauprez shills are plugging hard tonight — they’re gonna pull their boy through on pure chutzpah.

    So what if he was a strapping PE major? Had that pesky ulcer when he was playing varsity ball — so he stays behind and says “win one for the Gipper” from his hospital bed. What ridiculous spin.

    Must be nice to have that kind of muscle. Trailhead does D. Who knew?

  164. No, disagreeing is not degrading.  But redirecting an argument to attack Clinton is following the line of Limbaugh, like I have repeated.  I pointed out that you have been on here since 11am soing that.

    By the way, Beauprez in a flight suit is an insult to the military.

  165. Same Song,

    The only reason I said anything about Clinton was because of MrHandy’s post at 10:44am in which he says: “Isn’t it sort of hypocritical to have pasted Bill Clinton for dodging the draft…” I wasn’t redirecting anything, I was using it to make a point.

  166. Voting to send 150,000 troops into Iraq when you shirked your duty in a previous war is an insult to the military. The flight suit is just something for desperate right-wingers to pick at.

  167. Ok, so I’m not up on the “flight-suit” vs. whatever argument, but again, it’s not like Beauprez didn’t show up for the bus that was there to pick him up for service, he was classified 4-F by the draft board physician. You all want to talk about spinning…what do you think you are doing???

  168. Voting to send 150,000 troops into Iraq when you shirked your duty in a previous war is an insult to the military.
    by:  DDB

    Also by DDB:  “Repeat as necessary.”

  170. It would seem more like spin except fact that it’s not. The draft board wouldn’t have known about the five year old ulcer that didn’t stop him from football and wrestling and majoring in physical education afterward UNLESS HE HAD TOLD THEM ABOUT IT.

    For God’s sake.

  171. Has anyone gone back through every word that President Bush said to the US public, before and after his inaugural and counted how many things he said that were a lie?  I would be interested to know the latest count.

  172. It would seem more like spin except fact that it’s not.
    by:  DDB

    Well, you’re right about that bit.  “Spin” requires a kernel of truth.  You’re basically falsifying every bit of his draft status.  That isn’t “spin”, that’s called “LIES”.

    And there’s no need to invoke His name in this.

  174. So, DDB, you know that the board didn’t know this, just like you know that it would have influenced their decision, regardless of what the physician told them. Were you on the board? Because you sure are making a lot of assumptions with no foundation…

  178. How did they find out if he didn’t disclose it to him? Wake up.

    ………….

    See, this is based in ignorance.  You’ve never had a physical by DoD, have you?  (no need to answer, it’s obvious you haven’t).

  179. Are you talking about the bleeding ulcer? Medical records.

    If you are talking about his football playing, my point was: the physician still would have recommended what he recommended. You are assuming that 1) He didn’t disclose anything and 2) that it would have made a difference. These are baseless and factless assumptions, unless you were there.

  180. Okay, enough, I’m off to toast Bob “Draft Dodger” Beauprez, possibly the best thing that’s happened to the Colorado Democrats since…Marc Holtzman. Bye now.

  181. “Yeah, and they both eat food too. Actually, I am college educated, so there is a similarity with Bill. Remarkable, you college educated? How about you mylanta? Geez, I know Howard Dean is, so does that mean he is just like me?”

    Jeeze, lighten up Voice of Reason. I was just saying they are similar because they both dodged the draft.

  183. Bob Beauprez is a principled…conservative…Congressman from Colorado who lets his Colorado born values and Colorado experiences guide him. 

    If you didn’t know, his parents wrote the book on it without ever so much as picking up a pen.  It would appear this ficticious book that cannot be seen nor found told him to avoid the draft by claiming a health problem while allowing him to still letter in wrestling and football.

    “Both Ways Bob” Beauprez was born earlier than even his Congressional career.  It was born around high school or college.

  184. “[Bob Beauprez] was in school for the rest of the time. Is that the problem you have with him? He got a higher education?”

    Posted by Voice of Reason
    —————————————————————–

    VOR, does a PE degree actually count as “higher education”?

  185. Voice of Reason, I have a question for you. Is your paid position on Beauprez’s campaign to rebut every single thing that is said about him on a blog?

    If so, my next question is do you get paid on a “per post basis” or do you cover a list of blogs battling like a brother would for his sister’s virtue on the bathroom wall?

  187. I love it. Someone comes along who dissagrees with you, and instead of being able to actually debate the facts, you try to discredit them by saying “oh he/she is paid.” Seriously, this is such a bad argument; it holds no veracity. Again, since you are anti-Beauprez, and you post here, does that mean that you are being paid by Beauprez’s opposition? I have repetitively said I am not paid by the Beauprez campaign, yet you still get to a point where you can’t argue facts so you just use ad hominem attacks. Grow up and stick to the facts.

  190. “Your guys’ posts are getting really sad…”

    At least we aren’t comparing Bob to Bill Clinton in some bizarre attempt to defend him.

  191. No, VOR is not paid by Beauprez. He is one of our grasstops coordinators. He mows the grass for us from D.C., where we all live and work. Colorado? We can’t find it on a map, which is why we kept VOR here in D.C.: We didn’t know which direction to send him.

  192. Well…let’s do stick to the facts. Beauprez avoided the draft by claiming a medical while playing sports. FACT

    Does that work for you VOR?

  193. “At least we aren’t comparing Bob to Bill Clinton in some bizarre attempt to defend him.”

    Again, posted in response to MrHandy. Also used to show it isn’t just R’s, but the Dems favorite leader, who got deferments for being in school.

  194. VOR, you should start comparing Bob to Jimmy Carter, they’re both farmers!

    Oh, no, wait a minute. Jimmy had some military service. Oh well, I guess you’ll have to settle for Clinton.

  195. Nope, BB Alert. Again, you don’t just “claim” things. They show up in your medical records which the board physician uses to recommend to the draft board. It’s not like you can just make things up and hope they believe you, as you would have people believe.

  196. But you are right, Beauprez probably used his ninja mind control techniques on the board, just like he did on Leggitt to make him lie, huh.

  197. “Again, posted in response to MrHandy. Also used to show it isn’t just R’s, but the Dems favorite leader, who got deferments for being in school.”

    OK VOR, we get the point. We all know that you think Bill Clinton is a real stand-up guy. You don’t nedd to keep harping on it.

  200. VOR-you are mistaken.  DraftDodgerBob is correct.  Very few people during Viet Nam years who were not seeking an exemption took any medical records with them to their physical.  If you did not seek an exemption and could walk in, turn your head and cough then within hours you were getting a report date or being sworn in.
    Much as I dislike Limbaugh, if he indeed had a pilonidal cyst they were right to reject him.  Many manhours, many hospital days were spent treating guys with that condition in the service.

  201. Voice or Reason, how dare you compare Bob Beauprez to our 42nd President, President William J. Clinton?! You’re only showing your envy that your candidate doesn’t measure up!

  202. VOR neither Holtzman nor his staff has anything to do with Dodging Bobby B. His super, awesome, fantastic, ninja skills may be what keeps you at this site all day, but it fails to address the fact that he could play football and wrestle.

    This bleeding ulcer must have only bothered him when you thought about going to Vietnam. If he had cold feet he should just admit it.

  203. All right, you are all going to listen to ME now! Bob Beauprez did not dodge the draft and anyone who says otherwise is a fuckwad working for Holtzman or Progress Now. You can all go fuck yourselves and while you’re at it, eat shit and die mother fuckers.

  204. Im glad VOR has taken the high ground.

    Like I said before, it’s sad the debate has come to this.  Point in fact, Beauprez played dress up in a flight suit to pander for his own political gain.

  206. Yeah, that wasn’t me posting…that’s the problem with this site, anyone can claim another’s name. Dead Govs, is there a way to prevent this??

  211. What “I had a tummy ache” missed:

    “Nine million men served in the military during the Vietnam war, three million of whom went to the Vietnam theater. Contrary to popular mythology, two-thirds of these were volunteers, and 73 percent of those who died were volunteers. While some attention has been paid recently to the plight of our prisoners of war, most of whom were pilots, there has been little recognition of how brutal the war was for those who fought it on the ground. Dropped onto the enemy’s terrain 12,000 miles away from home, America’s citizen-soldiers performed with a tenacity and quality that may never be truly understood. Those who believe the war was fought incompetently on a tactical level should consider Hanoi’s recent admission that 1.4 million of its soldiers died on the battlefield, compared to 58,000 total U.S. dead. Those who believe that it was a “dirty little war” where the bombs did all the work might contemplate that it was the most costly war the U.S. Marine Corps has ever fought—five times as many dead as World War I, three times as many dead as in Korea, and more total killed and wounded than in all of World War II.

    Significantly, these sacrifices were being made at a time the United States was deeply divided over our effort in Vietnam. The baby-boom generation had cracked apart along class lines as America’s young men were making difficult, life-or-death choices about serving. The better academic institutions became focal points for vitriolic protest against the war, with few of their graduates going into the military. Harvard College, which had lost 691 alumni in World War II, lost a total of 12 men in Vietnam from the classes of 1962 through 1972 combined. Those classes at Princeton lost six, at MIT two. The media turned ever-more hostile. And frequently the reward for a young man’s having gone through the trauma of combat was to be greeted by his peers with studied indifference or outright hostility.”  James Webb-Former Republican, now running for US Senate in Virginia

  212. Side note:  Is there a record for posts on the pols?  We’ve hit over 200, and that doesn’t seem normal to me.  This most be a “non-issue.”

  215. Actually, its the first time in the race there has been a partisan post, where it has been D v R (not Holtzman v Beauprez), at least as much as I remember. I figured the first one of these would break the record.

  217. “TEACHER! TEACHER! SOMEONE’S DOING SOMETHING NAUGHTY AND BLAMING ME! DO SOMETHING! HURRY!”

    That is the most rediculous ad hominem attack yet. Because I tell you that someone who posted tons of exploitives under my screen name wasn’t me, that is how you respond? Grow up.

  220. Mike,

    How many Vets are running for Congress this year?  How many of those Vets are Dems, and why?  Why are so many Republican draft dodgers running for poltiical office and why are they willing to send other to the job they ran from?

  224. “How many Vets are running for Congress this year? How many of those Vets are Dems, and why? Why are so many Republican draft dodgers running for poltiical office and why are they willing to send other to the job they ran from?”

    Quite a few, I made friends with Jack Carter, son of Jimmy.  He’s a Vietnam vet, served on a ship picking up downed Navy fighters along the coast.  He’s running for US Senate in Nevada.  He’s really sharp.  Regarding the sending someone else to do the dirty work, it’s a story as old as civilization.  There are 40,000 green card members of the US military right now, what’s that tell you?  Myself, I’m an Army Ranger, served with the 1st Air Cavalry Division in S. Vietnam and Cambodia.  My father was a retired Air Force LTC/fighter pilot AND a Democrat. He didn’t like Reagan either, but he voted for Eisenhower, who didn’t?  The problem with Democrats?  They can’t lie, let me restate that, they can’t lie very well, as opposed to Republicans, who can’t tell the truth, ever.  We are witnessing a rabid partisan defense of the indefensible, unfortunately the Dems hardly shine when it comes to leadership.  I’m going to back Feingold all the way in 2008, unless Wes Clark really pulls his head out of his ass and roars.  Unfortunately Clark spent way too long in the military, it doesn’t translate well in the civilian world.  I’d like to see Clark and McCaffrey get called back to active duty and try to fix what Rummy broke.  I want them to keep Gitmo open for the AMERICAN war criminals, nothing like the “Red Line” to straighten out a criminal.  I noticed upthread I got blasted for publishing Iraq war casualties, I think they should all get a caison ride down Pennsylvania Avenue with ALL of America watching.

  225. Thanks Mike,

    Im going to look further the Vets that are running for Congress and State office.  It is always good to hear from a Vet who knows the bonds and politics of military service. 

    It’s a crime that our politicians abuse our military.  Our servicemen are unwavering in their service for our country and it’s truly wonderful that American has such strength, but it should be used appropriately. 

    For someone like Both Ways to play dress up for his own political gain, it’s a dishonor to all of those who have given so much to our country.

  226. WOWZERS!!! BATMAN!!!  While its one thing to play dress up, its another to act it.  Bob Beauprez claims to be supporting the VETS.  First, he supports Bush by sending our troops to War, then when the Repubs call for the Immediate Withdrawal from IRAQ, Beauprez is listed as “NOT VOTING.”

    Now, isn’t there somewhere something that say if you remain silent, you are granting approval for something?  If that is the case, what if the vote had actually passed?  What would BB have done then, aside from crapping his britches?  He would have really looked like the “South End of the Elephant Parade” in Washington.

    Funn thing about all of this is, it is BB who had VETERANS for BEAUPREZ bumper stickers printed.  Now why did he play dress up again?  I might have missed something.  Wonder which came first, the dress up or the stickers?

    Yep, Veterans for Beauprez, all three of them.  P.S. Vincente Fox called and he wants his veterans back.

  227. Worse yet, BB has a ridiculously outrageous voting record in relation to Veterans Benefits.  Some may say that he was watching out for the taxpayers purse strings.  If that is the case, why do Hefley, Musgrave, and Tancredo all have better ratings with the DAV and other veteran’s organizations?

    Couldn’t be that BB was watching out for the taxpayers when his ratings among all Republicans (and in some cases, even the Democrats)in the Colorado delegation (in relation to saving taxpayer dollars) is the lowest of the entire Republican delegation.

    He votes liberally, and then votes against the Vets.  If money was an issue, which it apparently wasn’t, his arguments make absolutely little or no sense at all.

    Are you sure this guy isn’t really a “Conscientious Objector” in disguise?  I can see it now.  BB reports to the recruiters office, upon filling out his paperwork he comes to the question: Are you a Conscientious Objector?  BB responds yes.

    Under what criteria do you consider yourself a conscientious objectors? the recruiter asks.

    I don’t like war, it makes my stomach upset.  besides I don’t have time to go to war, I’m busy chasing cows and playin football and wrastling.  I’ll have to check my calendar and get back to you folks later.

  228. SOS,

    I had the pleasure to meet Ann Richards two years ago and she made a statement that woke me up, “You have to find the courage to talk to the people you DON’T know and tell them the things they don’t want to hear.”  Another favorite quote from a guy that found religion before he was murdered:

      “There is discrimination in this world and slavery and slaughter and starvation. Governments repress their people; and millions are trapped in poverty while the nation grows rich; and wealth is lavished on armaments everywhere.
      “These are differing evils, but they are common works of man. They reflect the imperfection of human justice, the inadequacy of human compassion, our lack of sensibility toward the sufferings of our fellows.”  Robert F. Kennedy 1966

  230. Chickenhawk alert.  Add one more to your tally.  None other than Congressman Joel Hefley himself.  Korea, not Vietnam.  Remember, Congressman Hefley’s father was a retired Air Force Colonel.

  231. Same Song: “Side note: Is there a record for posts on the pols? We’ve hit over 200, and that doesn’t seem normal to me. This most be a “non-issue.”

    As a matter of fact, the record for most comments was 274. That was in response to the article “Beauprez in Trouble for Playing Dress-Up.”

    http://coloradopols.com/06/?p=352#comments

    Huh, I guess you’re right. This is a non-issue.

  232. So I go over to your site Mr Collins, and see links to Bill Moyers and a picture of Howard Dean.  These two are clearly socialists. So I wonder Mr. Collins, what the f**k are you fighting for?  False and even more destructive alternatives?

    We have been warned by Lord Acton that socialism means slavery.  And De Tocqueville writes that “Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word: equality.  But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude.”

    In The Servile State, Hilaire Belloc explains that “the effect of the Socialist doctrine on Capitalist society is to produce a third thing different from either of its two begetters – to wit, the Servile State”.

    Its one thing to be against the war, its quite another to be a socialist.  I’m willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume that you are just ignorant as to the true nature of socialism.  However, if you really tow the socialist line, how could a reasonable person possibly take you seriously?

  233. OK, Plumber, I’ll play, even though you’re not a plumber, but a painter and a bad one at that. Call me a southern, born again, Jimmy Carter, come to Jesus Democrat. About the “Servile State” LOL, you are too funny.  You should get out more, that’s some very dark reading material and you’re not going to impress the girls throwing around names like Acton and Belloc.  There is a book you should read, there’s an excerpt on the site you mentioned, “People of the Lie”  you should check it out, it’s all about YOU.

  234. There have been 233 posting about “Both Ways” back dooring out of military service w/ his med deferment but only one (count them, one) posting re:  the legislative session that just ended.  Great sense of priorities, folks!

  237. So this story is starting to take on a life of it’s own and seems to be actually hitting the street, unlike the “Dress Up” story that hit a couple months back.

    It’s bad timing for Bob, with him launching anti-business attacks against Holtzman and the whole Draft Dodger thing coming out now, many Delegates to the State Assembly are wondering if Bob really is the guy who we want to run against Ritter.

    Dodging the Draft and attacking business are usually not the best ways to endear ones self to GOP voters.

  238. I love it.  Take off the gloves GOPers!  Go for the throat.  Attack!  Attack!  I love the smell of (intra-GOP) napalming in the morning!

  244. That’s because the Editorial Board of the Post are all still telling stories about their own trips to Canada that lasted from 1966 to 1974.

  246. “many Delegates to the State Assembly are wondering if…”
    –Iron Mike

    Oh yeah? All 2500 that the Holtzman folks claim probably…oh, and why did Laura take that press release off the website?? It was really an enjoyable one. We all know how trustworthy the Holtzman camp is when it comes to delegate talk…

  247. Wow, VOR is reaching way back for that one…

    I’d put up some kind of lame argument but the reality is that in the week after the Caucuses the BB Camp believed that 2500 figure more than any of us with Holtzman did. You guys spent a week recriminating your lack of preparation in the corner leaving just us Holtzman guys and the DEMs alone on this blog for like two days. I thought there was some kind of RINO Rapture or something.

    But as to the 2500… Better recount those Delegates guys. Everyone of them that I lost in my little corner of Weld and Larimer have come back and the Draft Dodger stuff has about another 10 flirting with us.

    Oh yeah, and what’s was with the Broerman robo dial yesterday? You realise no one up here likes him right? Allard and Lt GOV Jane (did you see her hair? like buddah) are one thing, but Chuck (I lost the State House and Senate while running the 96 Hour Teams) Broerman?

    What, are you guys idiots?

  248. Iron Mike,

    The fact is that you can’t say anything about the 2500; it was another one of Dick’s many many lies that Laura (not shocking) and Marc (somewhat shocking at first) just went along with. the level of lying in your campaign is disgusting. Now, I can’t speak for the Beauprez campaign, but as for your “BB Camp believed that 2500 figure more than any of us with Holtzman did” stuff, trust me, no one I talked to believed a word of it. It was such a blatantly obvious lie that it was impossible to believe. That’s why Laura took it off the website; she realized that not everyone is as out-of-touch with reality as the Holtzman camp must think they are. What I don’t get is if you didn’t believe it at all, and you all knew it was a lie, why would you just sit idly by? Truth telling must not be too high on your list.

  249. It was believable because things went very well at Caucuses for the Holtzman Campaign… Come on, we all know this is true.

    I didn’t think the 2500 was an outright lie… I did however think it was a very optomistic estimate. Then in the following days as all of the BB Campers (at least up here, not sure about Denver or the Springs) went around moping about how much the BB Staff sucked and were screwing up a wet dream for the Draft Dodger… Hell even our buddy Voyageur made a crack about how bad BB’s “Handlers” were screwing up!

    So get off the 2500 figure tough guy. Whether it was an estimate, a lie or a solid count… Doesn’t matter. BB did so bad at Caucuses everyone believed it for about a week.

    But go ahead, keep weeping about those 2500… Maybe they were true, maybe not… Who knows? Who cares? This Draft Dodger attack from the unruly children accross the hall though just might make those numbers come true on May 20th.

  250. “Whether it was an estimate, a lie or a solid count… Doesn’t matter.”

    Just like it doesn’t matter if you make up poll figures, right? I promise you 2500 isn’t close to right–if it was, why in the world would Holtzman be paying a Nevada firm to collect signatures on petitions “just in case.” Seriously Iron Mike, if you don’t give a damn about the truth, why in God’s name should anyone listen to you?

  251. VOR, they listen to you…

    Read back over this thread smart guy. You have taken a subject on Bob Beauprez Dodging the Draft and tried to spin it over to an attack on Clinton and now you’re crying about a figure of 2500 that a lot of us think is actually not too far off the mark (no pun intended, promise).

    Talk about running from the truth dude! What are you going to say next, that Bob was forced at gun point to take a 4F status? The MPs were going to throw him out of Buckley if he didn’t wear the flight suit? I’ll stick with the 2500 figure… What’s your next lie smart guy?

  252. Oh wait, maybe we’ll get to hear how Marc didn’t enlist for that long, long war called Desert Storm! After all it lasted a whole 100 hours! Plenty of time!

    Or maybe you’ll argue he should have been a Ranger in Somalia.

    Come on tough guy, lay it on us, what’s your next out-right lie to counter that fact that Both ways Bob Beauprez was a Draft Dodger who turned his back on his country during a time of war?

  254. And read Mrhandy’s first posts, where he compared clinton to beauprez. Then read my response, where I showed there was no logical comparison. That’s not an attack, that is a rubuttal. And stick with the 2500 number, the same one that you just said no one believed: “…reality is that in the week after the Caucuses the BB Camp believed that 2500 figure more than any of us with Holtzman did.” Now it’s: “I’ll stick with the 2500 figure…”
    What is it? Do you believe it or don’t you?

    Wait, I know, you’ve probably just had “more time to think about it” now, just like Marc on the stand, haven’t you.

  255. Ever noticer has the standard practice among the Beauprez camp is to merely attempt to go to another subject?  Talking with VOR and some of the other Bb suporters here tends to make one queezy.  They will talk you around a tree more times than you will ever want. 

    Once met a BB supporter who said “I don’t think a persons record should be discussed as part of the candidate selection process.”  Oh yeah.  Nuclear scientist here.  “Stay away from them Holtzman people, they know words.”

    I would like to know why BB voted in support of Bush and then didn’t vote in support of Bush?  Wanna know if it had anything to do with Tom Delay, given that these two were part of the 18 who didn’t support the Repubs.

    Did it have to do with Delay being removed as majority leader?  Wonder just how many of those “NOT VOTING” votes were because of his removal?

    Know one thing.  When people hear about BB and some of his antics, the number of stickers supporting BB begins decreasing greatly.  The BB camp has been busy just trying to keep what they have.  I know that there will be some very secret surprises in store for the folks.  Just can’t make this stuff up.

    Oh ya.  BB was registed as “Not Voting” at least 13 times on major bills.  Guess he was in the restroom dealing with his ulcer. NOT!!!

  258. Bob SAYS he voted YES on an amendment to reduce funding by $202 million in the Foreign Operations, Export Financing and RElatied Agencies Appropriations Act.

    BUT – when the amendment failed, BOB VOTED FOR passage of the uncurt bill. McInnes, Musgrave, Hefley and Tancredo voted NO.

    Bob SAYS he voted YES on an amendment to reduce funding by $669 million in the TRansportation, Treasury, Housing and Urabn Development, Judiciary, District of Columbia, Independent Agencies and Related Agencies Appropriation Act.

    BUT, when that amendment failed, Bob VOTED FOR passage of the uncut bill.  hefley and Tancredo voted NO.

    Bob, SAYS he voted YES on an amendment to reduce funding by $1.43 billion in the Labor, Health and Human Services, Education and Related Agencies Appropriations Act.

    But, when the amendment lost Bob VOTED FOR passage of the uncut bill. Hefley and Tancredo voted NO.

    Bob SAYS he voted YES on an amendment to reduce funding by $570 million in the Science, State, Justice, Commerce and RElated Agencies Appropriations Act.

    BUT, when the amendment failed, Bob VOTED FOR passage of the uncut bill.  Hefley voted NO.

    Bob SAYS, he voted YES on an amendment to reduce funding by $893 million in the TRansportation, Treasury, Independent Agencies and RElated Agencies Appropriations Act.

    BUT, when the amendment failed, Bob VOTED FOR passage of the uncut bill.  Hefley voted NO.

    Bob Beauprez cites five instances of his voting for Hefley’s amendments.  There have been 17 – and each time, after the Hefley amendment failed – BOTH WAYS BOB SWITCHED SIDES AND VOTED FOR THE ORIGINAL UNCUT BILL.

    Now there’s a real conservative for ya.  Guess that explains why of the 16 bills sponsored by BOTH WAYS BOB during the 108th Congress, Hefley only co-sponsored 1!!!

  259. Hey VOR.  I know a guy, who knows a guy, who knows a guy who works for BB.  Rumor is that Bb will get 100% of the delegates form the State Assembly.  Afterall, didn’t they have 85% of the State Central Committee members supporting BB.

    Wonder why that didn’t translate into delegate votes.  I know of precincts wherein Broerman and his crew were’nt even present.  Then when it came to the Division Leader meetings, there were people nominating people who weren’t sure they were going to be able to attend.

    Thankfully, things worked out.  Gets bad when ytu dominate people and there isn’t any opposition. 

    No matter how you dress up this candidate, Holtzman will be on the ballot.  One way or another. 

    Hey VOR, I owe you an apology.  I was mailed a petition from the Holtzman Camp asking for me to get signatures from 10 people.  I screwed up man.  I’ll be turning in 100 signatures today.  Only took a few hours.  All I had to do was ask friends and fellow Repubs to sign my petition. 

    All done correctly and notorized.  In El Paso, the true conservatives know all about how to get petitions signed.  It’s called the Douglas Bruce School of Government.

  260. Hey VOR, Liggett is history.  That all you folks got?  Wouldn’t count on betting the election on that one point.  If so, the BB Camp is in worse trouble than one can imagine.

  261. Hey, MrHandy, Leggitt might not be working there anymore, but his effects are still quite felt. No one has answered my question yet on why Marc just stood idly by while Leggitt released the made-up numbers. He campaigns full-time. It’s his $540,000 the campaign is spending. He would have had to know there was not poll, yet he does nothing until Leggitt gets caught. If Marc is such an upstanding guy, why in the world would he tollerate this??

  264. After he got caught in the public eye, yeah, Leggitt was forced out. But Holtzman had to know LONG before that Leggitt lied. He would have known that Leggitt was quoting polls that didn’t exist the day the Post story came out that first quoted the fictional polls. Again, if Marc is such a stand-up guy, why didn’t he fire Dick “I lied” Leggitt then and there??

  265. So should he accept Liggett’s resignation again?

    Maybe you’d like it to be a daily ritual at the Holtzman Campaign… A Holy Resignation Cerimony?

    Is that what you guys do for Jack St. Martin?

  266. Just one question. How did Bob Beauprez playing dress up in military clothing some how turn into a conversation about Holtzman’s campaign manager quitting? 

    This must be the slick move Beauprez taught you about how to avoiding dealing with certain issues and spinning them to another topic. Kind of like the Beauprez campaign trying to act like him posing as a pilot is some how, some way, slanderous BS from liberals or Bob-haters.

  268. We should be careful with the religion words around VOR though…

    Next thing you know he’ll be saying Bob Beauprez was really a conscientious objector who found Jesus during his induction meeting.

  269. Iron Mike, you didn’t answer the question. Im talking about last year, when Leggitt released the fake poll numbers, Marc had to know about it. Why didn’t he fire Leggitt then and there if he is such an honest and upstanding guy?

    But he didn’t fire him…until he got caught months later. Holtzman just gave him a wink and a nod and took no action to remove Leggitt from his campaign at the time of the lie. Instead he kept the liar on as head of the campaign. Now there’s some real integrity…

  271. Don’t know… Never asked… Doesn’t really bother me, because I think it’s spin too.

    Now here is a nice sharp one for you VOR… Both Ways Bob is a Phiz Ed major… A fact very well established as a matter of fact.

    Why has he had on his Campaign Web Site for the better part of a year that he was an “Education Major”?

    Is he just lying?

    Yet another bad apple, rogue staffer loose on the internet?

    Please share with us how Both Ways Bob’s integrity squares with this little tidbit.

  272. Oh yeah, and let’s not forget Both Ways Bob willfully evaded military service during a time when his nation was at war, even though I’m certain they sent him very polite invitation.

    Or are you going to share with us all a version or events whereby VietNam wasn’t really a war VOR? It was just a “Police Action”?

  273. Well when I was in school, my university gave out a BS in Education and allowed students to pick an area of emphasis; same was true for the business program I was a part of. It is my understanding that this is how CU used to handle Ed. majors as well.

  274. Iron Mike,

    I find myself in the bizarre situation of defending Beauprez, after having called the CU admissions office to determine that yes indeed his degree was in P.E.

    Here’s how Bob’s claim is technically defensible: P.E. was a department under the School of Education at the time, along with teaching degrees.  So in a broad sense, he has a degree from the School of Education.

    But in the specific sense, he’s lying.

  275. “Oh yeah, and let’s not forget Both Ways Bob willfully evaded military service…”

    Yep, he used his ninja mind control techniques to force the board physician(s) to certify him 4-F.

  279. Posted by Gray in the mountains

    May 10th, 2006 at 8:56 pm
    Very few people during Viet Nam years who were not seeking an exemption took any medical records with them to their physical. If you did not seek an exemption and could walk in, turn your head and cough then within hours you were getting a report date or being sworn in.
    ——————————————————————

    Pretty sure our buddy Grey in the Mountains cleared the confusion about your mind control scenario VOR.

    Care to try again smart guy?

  282. I’m pretty happy with Hippo’s clarification about how the “Education Degree” is technically correct but in fact an outright lie.

    So based on that VOR, you are a liar.

    Would you like to move on to what the definition of “is”, is?

  283. How am I a liar? The degree would say “Education” on it and not list the emphasis; again, at least that is how my school did it and as I said, it is my understanding that is how CU did it.

  284. “Well when I was in school, my university gave out a BS in Education and allowed students to pick an area of emphasis; same was true for the business program I was a part of. It is my understanding that this is how CU used to handle Ed. majors as well.”

    Where’d I lie again?

  285. By the way VOR, on behalf of all of us who really think Both Ways Bob just sucks, I’d like to take this opportunity to thank you for helping us stretch this one day of bad press into two.

    Seriously, we couldn’t have done it without you big guy.

    Keep going… Maybe next you’d like to tell us how Bob’s vote against HR 2799 (ending Santuary Cities) was really just a private joke between him and Tancredo.

  286. I would hardly call Colorado Pols press…And so far all you have done is make attacks on me that you haven’t backed up. Looks good for you!

  287. Why thank you. I didn’t know it lookes good. Just thought it felt good.

    Here let’s put it to a vote… Does anyone else think that VOR is anything but a pathological liar?

  288. I’d go onto the Library of Congress website before you start posting about house resolutions…

    108th Congress–HR2799: “Making appropriations for the Departments of Commerce, Justice, and State, the Judiciary, and related agencies for the fiscal year ending September 30, 2004, and for other purposes.” (Beauprez voted “Aye” as did Tancredo)

    109th Congress–HR2799: “Rachel Granger act of 2005: To amend title II of the Social Security Act to authorize waivers by the Commissioner of Social Security of the 5-month waiting period for entitlement to benefits based on disability in cases in which the Commissioner determines that such waiting period would cause undue hardship to terminally ill beneficiaries.”

    Now, what was that about lying?

  291. Iron Mike, instead of taking a poll about whether or not VOR is a pathological liar, why don’t you produce some evidence?  He’s asked you repeatedly.

    I don’t agree with either of you even slightly.  But VOR’s been a lot more reality-based than you on this thread.

  293. hey did anyone notice that at 1:16 p.m. today anonymous placed entire listing of things that BB said, and what he did?  Did anyone notice that neither VOR nor anyone else disputed the information?

    I guess that proves my point.  Instead of discussing issues, they want to marginalize BB’s lousy voting record and minimalize his playing Dress Up and not coming clean on his Vietnam fiasco.

  294. Hey VOR. As I said before, I’ll trade you one set of tax records for Bb’s medical records.  You never responded.  I asked you why BB won’t come clean on his Military-Not Military record?  You never answered.  Iasked why BB was listed as “Not Voting” n 13 major bills, to include granting gold medals to the Tuskegee Arimen. I asked why BB supported Bush on Iraq initially, then didn’t support the Repubs on the second vote.  I asked why BB didn’t support allowing the IRS and Treasury to invistigate the use of false ids.  I asked why BB opposed prohibiting the Socail SEcurity Administration from granting benefits to illegals.  I asked why BB vpted against legislation outlawing sanctuaty cities.  I asked why BB now is claiming that he favors outlawing sanctuary cities.  I asked why BB voted a total of 348 bills in the 108th congress, and voted NO on the legisaltion only 10% of the time, and YES 90% of the time.

    And the list goes on and on and on.  To date, you have answered a total of ZERO questions.  Instread you dance of onto another topic or tangent and avoid, and obfuscate the issue.  If you don’t know trhe answer, just say so and stop wasting people’s time.  The man is a blatant liar.  He lies repeatedly and I would say that most people are growing tired of the lame excuses.

    Oh to be a fly on the wall and sit in on the campaign discussions.  How do we answer this? How do we answer that?  Talk them in circles.  The only person suffering from Liggett withdrawl is you VOR.

    Everyone else has moved on.

    This I can tell you, that achilles heal of BB’s is growing ever larger.  It may not come out by May 20th, but it surely will before August 8th.  In which case, the campaign may want to pack it in.  If this stuff is just the tip of the iceberg, wait until the real fun begins. 

    I wonder if Bb and his arrogance has ever allowed him to say something really, really, really stupid over the years. 

    If its out there, I can find it.  Can you say anything in print dating back to 1878?  heck, I bet I can come up with his High School stuff as well.

    Being that its in Colorado, that will be very easy.  Already have good snippets from when he was Republican Chairman, that was real easy.

    I still need to take the time and get his committee attendance records.  I bet the guy was AWOL and awful lot. 

    As for the 2277, be sure your not talking about any amendments.  To be certain you would be advised to check the Roll Call Vote number to make sure everyone is talking from the same page.

  296. Of course Beauprez didn’t go to Vietnam, he might have been out protesting it at that time. At the time this was going on, Bob was gushing about how “progressive” college students of the time were and what an “advanced age of social development” they were in.

    Boulder Daily Camera- June 9, 1966:
    “Beauprez said that while college students once were concerned primarily about athletics and social events, they now discuss Viet Nam and civil rights.

    Today’s teenagers, he said, have reached an advanced age of social development. “We will remain progressive,” he continued, “because we are prepared. We must contribute to today’s progress.””

  300. Wow VOR has been busy today. It reminds me of Jeff Foxworthy’s joke about climbing a water tower with a bucket of paint to defend your sister’s honor. 

    VOR is like that guy. No matter if he is sleep deprived, working (sort of), or at home…Beauprez’s honor will be fought for on Coloradopols.

    Kudos to you VOR…kudos.

  301. Let’s keep in mind one…important…fact. Bob Beauprez wrote the book on progressive conservatism without ever so much as picking up a pen.  Later on, see, he just took the best parts (being the “pr” and the middle “e”) and turned them into “principled.”

    It makes perfect sense. Then…check this out…he took the remaining letters and disgarded them in the manure pile on his farm.

    I’ve figured it out.

  302. Where’s VOR? Is he holding an emergency staff meeting, or more likely a teleconference in VOR’s case, so John can give him updated talking points?

    Quick, talk more about Colorado and the dairy farm!

  304. Hey, you can just shove it, cause’ you know Bob Beauprez is like this guy, and he’s really great, you know what I’m sayin’? So, if you no shut up, I gonna cut you so bad, you wish I no cut you.

  306. VOR, you still sure you weren’t the one who arranged this photo op?

    I seem to recall a fellow by the name of “that’s it?” who was the only one defending Beauprez as vociferously as you are when this story came up the last time. The funny thing is, he was making all of the exact same points that you are and was using the exact same language. Huh, what a strange coincidence.

    Even stranger, he immediately got off the blog once someone asked him if he was posting from a congressional office. Of course, that was an absurd ad hominem attack since VOR/that’s it? hasn’t worked in Beauprez’s congressional office for well over a year.

  308. Bob Beauprez never dodged the draft, he is on his way to Vietnam. He is just operating under “Mexican Time”, right Bob.

  309. Is Bob Beauprez’s progressive conservatism, is that like Imrie’s populism economics?  hey, maybe the political science majors out there should list some of the more popular progressives of our timeon here, that might be fun and entertaining.

  310. Ouch!!! Wait a minute.  bob Beauprez has an A rating with the NRA.  He is the prioncipled conservative in this race.  There is no way in hell that anybody would endorse anyone but Bob.  Just look at who’s endorsed him thus far.

    Especially on the 2nd amendment.  That must be a gimic Pike.  I’ll believe it when I see it.

  311. Read em and weep.  Talk about shock and awe.  If the Pikes Peak Firearms Coalition voted to endorse Holtzman, that must have been a blow to the Beauprez Camp.  Chalk another one up for the great Chuck Broerman.  First the caucus fiasco, a lackluster El Paso County Assembly, and now the Pikes Peak Firearms Coalition.

    Does anybody see a pattern here?  Doesn’t El Paso County have the highest number of delegate votes at the state assembly?  If so, what will happen if BB doesn’t receive as many delegate votes from El Paso as anticipated?  Will the western slop and south (i.e. Pueblo) join with El Paso and sock it to BB?

    Wouldn’t that be funny?  El Paso, Mesa, Puebloa, and all of the rural counties in between join forces and send a message to the Denver, Boulder crowd.  Notice how BB doesn’t remind us about the word Boulder in his literature?  Can you say LIBERAL?

  313. When we look to lawyers, doctors, and educators to run our government, what do you expect?  These professions reward and often require years of higher education.  The reality of what makes us strong, such as military service, personal sacrifice, and risk taking, can be lost.  Those running higher education often discourage these things.  It’s time to take a look at what we value in our leaders.  Both parties are run by many who sat on a college campus and let others make the sacrifices for their freedom.  This is a disastrous mistake that results in a political system that does not work.

  314. Saw the huge number of comments and didn't bother to read them. Just skimmed a little. Can pretty much much guess what must have happened via the sheer numbers. Righties clearly don't understand the difference between avoiding serving in that war for whatever reason and being a staunch, dirty hippie hating, America love it or leave it shouting, swaggering, tough talking patriot of the let's you and him (him being poorer, browner, whatever) fight variety. It must be something they take in with their mothers' milk. Cheney is their poster child.

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