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July 11, 2011 05:01 PM UTC

Insanity from Colorado teacher's union

  • 57 Comments
  • by: glasscup

(A higher standard for public safety or guilty until proven innocent? You decide – promoted by Colorado Pols)

So just a preface before I catch flack, like most democrats I support unions, and I strongly believe that they have an important place in our economy, discourse, etc.

But occasionlly they do things that make virtually no sense and which raise real questions about whose interests they’re looking out for. Case in point, just read this story about CEA – the big Colorado Teachers Union. I don’t understand their position and what they are doing here – maybe someone has a better explanation than they provided in the story?

The Colorado Education Association has filed suit challenging the recent State Board of Education rule requiring school districts to notify parents when school employees are arrested.

Notification is required in cases involving any felony, drug crimes (except for misdemeanor marijuana charges), misdemeanor and municipal violations related to children, misdemeanor and municipal ordinance violations involving unlawful sexual behavior of various kinds, and any crime of violence. Drunken driving arrests are included if an employee’s duties involve transporting students in motor vehicles.

http://www.ednewscolorado.org/…

Frankly, that seems pretty reasonable to me. Stuff like this – and the teachers union’s intransigence on a lot of other important policy questions (the union also just condemned Teach for America, I read, which seems absurd?) is problematic for education policy, I think, because they are putting the interests of adults (their members) ahead of students and children. I don’t get what the CEA is trying to do here.

Comments

57 thoughts on “Insanity from Colorado teacher’s union

  1. One “interesting” revelation in working on the Veteran Court in Colorado is that credit reporting companies scrub law enforcement and jail websites for data on arrests. This info is included on a number of credit reports, and can bite the accused in the ass if they don’t know about it.

    One devious thing is that the industry has no requirement to amend the data on their own. It’s up to the accused to go back and clean up their credit history, and since most people aren’t aware it exists, it stays there.

    In the case of the clients of the Vets Court, they can enroll in the program, get treatment and have their official court records expunged, but the credit report of their arrest and conviction is still there.  

    1. A bill needs to be run to prevent creditors from knowing too much about the reliability and worthiness of those they are potentially extending financing too …. all in the name of consumer protection and transparency right?

      Come on Dan, grow up or move to France where the government has ownership stakes throughout most industry sectors and you might get away with your Maxine Wateresque proposal.

      1. ….it seems to reflect your view of a libertarian paradise!

        Did you drink too much Mountain Dew last night during your dungeon run in WoW? You’re more incoherent than normal…

      1. Haven’t seen you posting in forever!

        Arrests are a matter of public record, but an official dissemination of a notice of the arrest is more than just a public record.

        It is more than is strictly necessary to protect the students.  That’s all that is needed to judge this rule.

  2. It reflects the American belief that one is innocent until proven guilty.

    You may disagree, however I find your  hysterical hyperbole at odds with your stated support for unions.  It is the job of unions to protect their members.  A teacher can be destroyed by a false accusation.

      1. I have been trying to convince my compatriots here that the radical right is out to undermine our US Constitution anyway they can….your comments support my fear.

          1. 1. It is the State Board of Education, not a “commission.”

            2. “Bi-partisan” implies equal/balanced representation. They are not. These are partisan elections, and draw a lot of ideologues.

            3. They often make decisions quickly and without much sign of thoughtfulness.

      1. A public trial happens after an investigation, with charges the prosecuting attorney is supposed to feel comfortable in supporting, and a reasonable chance of conviction.

        A public trial is also supposed to happen without the jury being unduly influenced by publicity surrounding the event.  That is less likely to be true if the government is forced to tell a large segment of the community about an alleged action before all the facts are known.


      2. By your argument, should the trial also be secret to protect the teachers reputation until “proven guilty”.

        You think the answer to innocent until proven guilty is star chamber proceedings?

        1. You think the answer to innocent until proven guilty is star chamber proceedings?

          You guys get borderline hysterical over the simplest things.

          If I get a notice in the mail (or on my e-mail or voice mail) that my child’s teacher has been arrested for speeding, I am not going to worry too much, (unless they are the driver ed teacher)

          If the arrest is for a child related abuse crime, I have a right to know the administration is protecting my young children.

          All this is is a notice.  The arrest is a matter of PUBLIC record.  The school is notified under a required notification rule.  Extending that rule to include parents, in relevant child safety criminal arrests is reasonable.

          I could get the same information if I read the public arrest blotter, or the local newspaper, but I am too busy blogging with you guys to do that. 🙂

          1. if I read the local newspaper . . .”

            1.  Sounds interesting, what’s this “newspaper” thing you write of?

            2.  So, if I read you correctly you see this notiification bill, and the expense upon the school system (What was it David used to write about sales tax notifications? . . . something about a dollar of expense per notification?), as an appropriate substitute for the failure of these local “newspapers” to provide something other than American Furniture advertisments?

    1. Many years ago one of my daughters teachers was arrested, and convicted of 1st degree murder.  All of the other parents had the attitude “Well, they wouldn’t have arrested him if he wasn’t guilty!”

      It turned out that he WASN’T guilty!  It took 3 years but finally the D.A. admitted the error and after he signed all kinds of paperwork saying that he would not sue anyone involved… the school, the city, the D.A. the County, the State, the Governor and whoever else they could think of, he was released.  He hadn’t seen his kids for 3 long years and due to nothing that he had done.

      One guess as to the color of his skin.

      The judge did take an unplanned, early retirement, however.

      .

  3. which is one of the legislature’s best things since so many of them are blissfully idea-free.

    When teachers get arrested, local media are all over it, for good or for bad.

    Tossing another mandate on school districts is just plain silly.

  4. the union also just condemned Teach for America, I read, which seems absurd?

    Agree; do you have a cite for that? I’d love to see it. If they’re criticizing TFA, then holy hell, I’m really done with them.

    1. marvelous outcomes of their reform led results over he last 2 decades.

      He’s a measurable factoid …. DPS gradates 43.5% of it’s High Schoolers. better yet, it’s not the fault of the teachers, but the collective Bossman does play a part.

      Are vouchers really such a bad idea when nearly 60% of high schoolers don’t graduate and your target graduation rate is just north of 50% ?

      1. posting multiple awesomely ungrammatical tirades about the failure of our schools!

        L, let me give you a tip on argument strategy: if you can tell us you went to (or are in seventh grade in) DPS, that would be the most powerful argument you could give for your assertion that DPS is a failure.

  5. I have enough problem with bars to employment for people convicted of an offense (what does smoking weed 20 years ago have to do with much of anything), let alone the mere accusation of a crime.

    Nowadays teachers get fired for facebook pages showing them drinking (legally) and for dating antics (when they are single).  At the same time, the same people arguing we should can them argue we should pay them like retail clerks at best buy.

    Aside from a very few cases, (Sex assault on a child comes to mind) they should be left in the classroom (and not publicly tried in the press or the NIMBY world of parents) until the legal process plays out.  Then it should be determined if the offense has a relevant relation to their duties.  However, this isn’t the case since Colorado has employment bans for teachers convicted of felonies+.

    I am a parent and my view hasn’t changed by having kids.  People need to get a grip.

    1. Schools are already notified when arrests happen.  Media watch it too.  If there’s any reason whatsoever for removing a teacher from the classroom, they will be.  And I think that should happen, frankly.

      What this is, though, is going further than that.  It’s not just about removing them from the classroom.  Not even about notifying parents of children who had close contact with the teacher.  Instead, it’s a mandate that the school notify every family with children in the school, whenever anything within its scope happens.

      There’s no room for common sense here; doesn’t matter if the “arrest” was for some nitpick, outdated homosexuality-related law, or whatever… doesn’t matter if even the media look at it and realize it’s not worth reporting on.  If it technically fits in the scope of the policy, the school district MUST send out letters to possibly thousands of families about a teacher’s private life.

      If the CEA were not opposing this monstrosity, they would not be doing their job.

      1. Stop exaggerating. The policy covers specific crimes that seem relevant to their position. It specifically excludes plenty of minor stuff that most of us would agree was irrelevant.

        Simple question: As a parent of a child, would you want to know that the teacher of your child had been arrested for assault over the weekend? Yes or No?

        It’s not enough to say the school will take action on their own. What if they don’t? Although maybe a compromise could be that if the teacher continues teaching parents are notified and told why, I don’t know, I’m open to ideas, whatever.  

        1. I do want to know that my school is responsible enough to remove the teacher from being in front of students pending an investigation.  What that means is, if the school fails to remove a teacher and then they wind up being convicted, I want those in charge of handling it at the school level removed – that means principals, union officials who prevented the school from taking any sort of precautionary measure…

          That goes for the DUI bits, too.  If school policy doesn’t automatically put a driver on leave after a DUI, I want to know that.  I don’t want to know if someone as arrested and charged by accident for being drunk while in the passenger seat – I want to know that someone was convicted of a DUI offense and the school did nothing while the charge was pending.

          In these matters, I would rather see a rule that punishes school officials for failing to properly act in response to such an arrest (and “properly act” doesn’t mean an automatic kneejerk reaction) than publication of the arrest record to every house in the district.

          1. A lot of us don’t trust school administrations to act appropriately – because we’ve seen them take so many brain-dead actions. I agree this should be handled by the district. But we need to know, 100% know, that they will.

            1. If the person winds up guilty, you’ll know.  And if that’s not enough, I’d even be okay with a provision that says make the notification if the person winds up guilty and the case goes before an independent review board.

              I’ve now proposed two alternatives to this poorly thought out rule.  We have yet another alternative already in place.  This isn’t rocket science – or it shouldn’t be.

  6. Nothing about why the CEA opposes the legislation.

    http://www.ednewscolorado.org/

    The complaint cites a laundry list of legal reasons why the rule should be struck down but focuses on the arguments that the SBE doesn’t have the authority to issue such a rule, that the rule infringes on school board powers and that the rule conflicts with a variety of state laws governing school safety and release of criminal records.

    And what if the schoolteacher is arrested and not charged, or tried and acquited?

    …the rule is silent for situations where the employee was acquitted by a jury or the court. It is also silent as to whether a school district must send a letter to parents if they learn that the arrest of an employee was in error or the employee arrested was released without being charged.

    And teachers aren’t the only ones opposed:

    Representatives of the Colorado Association of School Boards and the Colorado Association of School Executives repeatedly told board members they don’t  believe it has the legal authority to impose such a requirement on school districts.

    But once this rule goes into effect, schools that fail to comply will be in deep doo-doo, right? Well, no:

    An interesting twist to the rule is that it contains no enforcement or reporting requirements so districts essentially will be on the honor system in using it

    .

    So this poorly drafted set of rules appears to conflict with existing law, exceed the authority of the BOE, is opposed by administrators and teachers alike, and has absolutely no teeth.

    Just what we need – more POS rules on the books.

  7. (the union also just condemned Teach for America, I read, which seems absurd?)

    The actual resolution was:

    Adopted As Modified

    NEA will publicly oppose Teach for America (TFA) contracts when they are used in Districts where there is no teacher shortage or when Districts use TFA agreements to reduce teacher costs, silence union voices, or as a vehicle to bust unions.

    “Condemned” is spin, not fact.

    But why the concerns about TFA? I suggest you read the research–all of it, not just from TFA, their big money bank rollers, and politician supporters (both Rs and Ds). Here is a start to see why NEA has legitimate concerns:

    http://voices.washingtonpost.c

    This link can lead you to independent research.


  8. If the arrest is for a child related abuse crime, I have a right to know the administration is protecting my young children.

    You have the right to know that the administration is protecting all children, all the time.  Notifying parents of arrests is not the same as protecting children.  Notifying parents will ALWAYS destroy a teacher’s reputation.

    Preserving the right to the presumption of innocence is always difficult. Balancing that against the need to protect children is perhaps the most difficult task a school district can have. I would support administrative leave without notification.  Notification is the easy way out.  Your reaction is precisely why it is the wrong way.

    I speak as a parent who paid to have my kids educated by a pedophile priest and was NEVER notified.  I should have been told because there was no question of the accuracy of the charges.  But the horror of that does not justify destroying all teachers on suspicion.

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