Friday Open Thread

50
  by: Colorado Pols Fri July 20, 2012 at 3:44 PM MDT

Our thoughts are with the victims of the tragic violence in Aurora last night.


Full story: Friday Open Thread

50 Community Comments, Facebook Comments

  1. Albert J. Nock says:
    Fri July 20, 2012 at 4:08 PM MDT

    My condolences.  Lean on the Lord.

    Debase the currency first, then comes the breakdown of society.

    Watch this video in which David Stockman talks about the 40 year debt super cycle that is about to implode.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?f…

  3. PERA hopeful says:
    Fri July 20, 2012 at 4:53 PM MDT

    There are 50 gunshot victims in our local hospitals and I suspect they can use more blood today.

  4. SSG_Dan says:
    Fri July 20, 2012 at 4:54 PM MDT

    I found all of this out a short while ago, and I’m stunned at the brutality of this shooting. If even a smidgen of the eyewitness accounts are true, the casual way in which the gunman killed innocent people makes all the more horribe.

    Already the pro and anti guns folks have lined up on Facebook to scream at each other about how they caused this shooting. My response there is the same as here – leave it alone for 24 hours.

    PLEASE.

  5. MADCO says:
    Fri July 20, 2012 at 5:21 PM MDT

    Do you think that it is accidental that the name of the really vicious fire breathing four eyed whatever it is villain in this movie is named Bain [sic]?

    This movie, the audience is gonna be huge. A lot of people are gonna see the movie, and it’s a lot of brain-dead people, entertainment, the pop culture crowd, and they’re gonna hear Bane in the movie and they’re gonna associate Bain. The thought is that when they start paying attention to the campaign later in the year, and Obama and the Democrats keep talking about Bain, Romney and Bain, that these people will think back to the Batman movie, “Oh, yeah, I know who that is.”  (laughing) There are some people who think it’ll work.  

    Rush Limbaugh, Tuesday July 17 2012

    Origin of BANE

    Middle English, from Old English bana; akin to Old High German bano death

    First Known Use: before 12th century

    Merriam-Webster dictionary, retrieved from http://www.merriam-webster.com…  Iuly 20, 2012

    Bane, the fictional comic book character, created by Chuck Dixon, Doug Moench, and Graham Nolan. was introduced in Vengeance of Bane #1 (January 1993).

    DC Comics Database, character list

    So first President Obama’s family conspired with the Hawaii media and the State of Hawaii to produce false birth announcements and documentation, now Obama supporters started int he 12th c.  preparing the language to make a homonym for Bain that means death and evil.  

    Then comic book artists in 1993 and movie makers in the late 90s (Bane appeared in an earlier version of Batman notable for Uma Thurman as Poison Ivy and Jim Carrrey as Riddler) and now a whole new set of film makers.

    I always thought it was insane – but maybe Obama is  the one.

    ps

    It’s not clear how Bill Bain, founder of Bain Capital fits into this particular fantasy story of evil and conspiracy, but he’s from Tennessee so  that must mean something.

  6. AristotleAristotle says:
    Fri July 20, 2012 at 5:46 PM MDT

    These are all from twitter, so I won’t be providing links.

    President will make a public statement at 9:20 Mountain time.

    Obama campaign will suspend TV ads in Colorado through Monday. I saw one tweet use the term “contrast ads,” which might mean only negative ads. I don’t know – it’s not a term I’m familiar with.

    ABC News reportedly mentioned that someone with the same name as the suspect, from Aurora, has some kind of Tea Party connection. Breitbart has already condemned ABC “and Democrats” for that. No word if it’s the same person, but good reason to doubt it – Nate Silver says there are more than 20 people in Denver area who share suspect’s name. No other media have mentioned this. It’s early, but I’m going to call it shoddy journalism too – but so is Breitbart’s swipe at the wholly unrelated-to-ABC Democrats.

  7. Gray in Mountains says:
    Fri July 20, 2012 at 6:35 PM MDT

    wildfires, this shooting, numerous other incidents around the state

  8. davebarnesdavebarnes says:
    Fri July 20, 2012 at 6:53 PM MDT

    “Neal Boortz, talk-show idiot, attacks Obama on Twitter for Aurora theater shooting statement”

    http://blogs.westword.com/late…

    Neal Boortz @Talkmaster

    Obama has made a statement about Colorado shooting. Whew. Everything is OK now. Obama is “shocked and saddened.”

  9. AristotleAristotle says:
    Fri July 20, 2012 at 7:42 PM MDT

    Via twitter:

    @SenBennetCO

    Bonfils Blood Center needs donations, especially O-, A- and platelets. Appointments required @ http://t.co/kc3I0vlK #theatershooting  

  10. Gray in Mountains says:
    Fri July 20, 2012 at 9:37 PM MDT

    or an act of an evil person, they are minimizing evil. As Hick pointed out, this was the act of a deranged person. Smarter than most I assume because of his academic pursuit but still deranged. Though this kind of behavior can not be eliminated and though even one who has received treatment or had it offered to them still may commit such horrendous acts we could help our society greatly if we had the kind of mental health treatment networks available that we had until the early 70s.

    Rather than discussing treatment some on FB and Post comments simply call for capital punishment which never eliminated horse theft, treason or murder. As with Nathan Dunlap, James Holmes life is over.

    Many if not most young people experience episodes of extreme hopelessness and angst. Sometimes for days, sometimes for years. Regardless of stigma, these folks must receive help

    • ProgressiveCowgirlProgressiveCowgirl says:
      Fri July 20, 2012 at 9:50 PM MDT

      Two sides to every coin.

      That said, reports of the suspect’s mother’s reaction of “Yes, you’ve got the right person,” made me wonder if she had sought help for her son in the past. I am sure the truth will come out in time. Thank goodness police responded rapidly enough to arrest the shooter alive so that he can be questioned and we can learn from him what warning signs may have been missed.

      • Gray in Mountains says:
        Fri July 20, 2012 at 9:55 PM MDT

        though there were abuses to be sure. What is “capable of independent living”? Until 1240 AM today that was James Holmes

        • ProgressiveCowgirlProgressiveCowgirl says:
          Fri July 20, 2012 at 10:28 PM MDT

          Court and grand-jury records document scores of deaths of patients following beatings by attendants. Hundreds of instances of abuse, falling just short of manslaughter, are similarly documented. And reliable evidence, from hospital after hospital, indicates that these are but a tiny fraction of the beatings that occur, day after day, only to be covered up by a tacit conspiracy of mutually protective silence and a code that ostracizes employees who sing too loud.”

          Yet beatings and murders are hardly the most significant of the indignities we have heaped upon most of the 400,000 guiltless patient-prisoners of over 180 state metal institutions.

          In 2009, the New York Times found ongoing violent and sexual assaults were perpetrated against patients in a city-run psychiatric unit.

          If Holmes turns out to have been mentally ill, I am as wary of demonizing everyone who is mentally ill on the basis of that example as I was of demonizing all Marilyn Manson fans after Columbine, or all Muslims after 9-11. Most people affected by mental illness are more likely than the general public to be victims of crime, not perpetrators of crime.

          I don’t want to argue about this — only to point out that there is no 100% effective way to prevent bad things from happening, and trying too hard often leads to abuses that still fail to prevent bad things from happening, but manage to harm lots of perfectly decent people.

          • Gray in Mountains says:
            Fri July 20, 2012 at 10:31 PM MDT

            I want them to get help. Regardless of what was happening in 1946

          • Sir RobinSir Robin says:
            Fri July 20, 2012 at 10:37 PM MDT

            It’s common knowledge that prisons have turned into defacto mentally ill holding tanks.

            My experience, which I dare say is more vast than 99% of Pols readers, is that when the mentally ill have access to diagnoses and treatment, and especially regular followup and monitoring of their medication regimen, they’re quite capable of living fairly normal lives. I realize this is generalizing, but it is true in the main.

            There are few who advocate for this cohort. Governor Bill Ritter’s wife, Jeannie, made this her main focus, but I saw little evidence of it in the press, and really did not see much practical success from her making it her focus.

            • ProgressiveCowgirlProgressiveCowgirl says:
              Fri July 20, 2012 at 10:49 PM MDT

              Tracy Kraft-Tharp is one of the few mental health advocates in politics, and she isn’t yet in office.

              The population is enormously underserved — and going backward to the 1970s to institutionalizing them against their will would result in the same problems that are always found in institutions. Assisted living or home care are appropriate for all but the most severely mentally ill.

              I hope incidents like this can teach providers new things about how to move forward with standards of care and availability of care. This highly intelligent Ph.D neuroscience student does not fit the common perception of a mentally ill person prone to violence. He bought guns legally and had no criminal record. Seeking care leads to stigmatization and reduced opportunities for education and employment for many people with mental illness. I have to wonder how willing this young man would have been to seek help even if he could have checked himself into treatment at no cost to himself the first time he considered harming others.

              when the mentally ill have access to diagnoses and treatment, and especially regular followup and monitoring of their medication regimen, they’re quite capable of living fairly normal lives. I realize this is generalizing, but it is true in the main.

              This needs to be repeated more often and in more places. There’s a reason so much research has been done on mental illness. For most patients, with proper followup, care WORKS. I have a dearly beloved family member who has suffered from severe mental illness and was involved in violent altercations. This family member took responsibility, sought treatment, and fortunately was able to access it affordably and consistently. The person is now a healthy, happy parent, graduate student, and business owner.

  11. SSG_Dan says:
    Sat July 21, 2012 at 3:11 AM MDT

    I’d chastise the Republican’t Party for their usual line of diversionary BULLSHIT, but since it seems to be working with the inattentive public, I guess I have to give them some props…

    Sequester blues: Congress faces buyer’s remorse on defense cuts

    Republicans including presidential candidate Mitt Romney and the party’s leadership in Congress know who is to blame if defense spending gets hit come Jan. 1: President Obama.

    When Mr. Obama campaigned in Virginia last week, the Romney campaign sent out a slew of statements from surrogates calling the $55 billion hit to defense spending coming in 2013 some variation of “President Obama’s defense cuts.”

    During a press conference of House Republican leaders on Wednesday, the list of those whacking the president for failing in one way or another to head off the pending defense cuts was long: House Speaker John Boehner of Ohio, Majority Leader Eric Cantor of Virginia, House Armed Services Committee Chairman Buck McKeon and Mr. Romney’s top liaison to Capitol Hill, Rep. Cathy McMorris Rodgers of Washington.

    Speaker of the House John Boehner (R) of Ohio talks to reporters on Capitol Hill on Thursday. ‘We have this sequester because the President of the United States, for his own convenience, only wanted to deal with the debt limit once before the election,’ he said.

    In the Senate on that same day, two prospects for Romney’s vice presidential slot – Sen. Kelly Ayotte (R) of new Hampshire and Sen. John Thune (R) of South Dakota – lambasted the president and the Senate’s Democratic leadership for a lack of leadership on the issue.

    But there’s just one problem with that analysis: With the exception of Senator Ayotte, every member of Congress listed above voted for the legislation that put the sequester into place.

    http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/E…

    So, the Repubs in Congress are hooting about DoD spending cuts (which are tiny to begin with) while blaming the President for making them, EVEN THOUGH THEY VOTED FOR THEM.  

  12. Sir RobinSir Robin says:
    Sat July 21, 2012 at 3:28 AM MDT

    This from Digby bears repeating a second time:

    We aren’t shocked anymore when children are killed. It’s become a normal part of American life. The taboo has shifted from horror at the shootings to horror at talking about shooting. This is called “politicizing tragedy” as if these mass murders are an act of nature rather than an act of human evil or madness (or both) enabled by easy access to the tools of mass murder.

    But let’s not go there. We will mourn the casualties the way we mourn the deaths of those in hurricanes and tornadoes. Gun violence is now a “natural” event in America, as unpredictable as the weather, and there’s nothing we can do about it except gather together in the aftermath to help the victims. Indeed, the only enduring threat these events foretell is from those who would question a culture that deifies the gun as if it were a religious symbol rather than a lethal weapon.

    When the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor, nobody said that we should just pray for the victims and do nothing about it. When terrorists used planes full of people as missiles and killed thousands of Americans, few suggested that it was an inevitable tragedy that shouldn’t be politicized. The country took action to prevent those things from happening again. In fact, the nation went far beyond the bounds of decency and reason to do so, locking up entire races of Americans, starting needless wars and ramping up an expensive and unnecessary police surveillance state. But very few went out of their way to suggest that the only reaction to these tragedies should be solemn mourning. These incidents involving heartbreaking loss of innocent life were intensely political, and appropriately so. In fact, to have done nothing in the wake of 9/11 and Pearl Harbor would have seemed to most Americans to have shown callous disregard for the victims, and disdain for the lives of victims of similar attacks to come.

    There is no reason that these almost routine gun massacres in America should be viewed any differently. Those who wish to take steps to ensure that the next massacre be prevented–and they are entirely preventable–are showing the greatest respect for the lives of the victims. They’re the ones who are trying to make sure that they didn’t perish in vain, and that similar future massacres don’t claim any more innocents. It is intervention of the most necessary kind.

    Prayers and sympathy are nice. But they accomplish nothing, and show no greater respect. Prayers won’t help the victims or stop the next massacre. Call it politics or any other term that seems fitting, but it’s long past time we started making sure this sort of thing cannot happen again. It’s the right thing to do.

    http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/

    • MADCO says:
      Sat July 21, 2012 at 4:35 AM MDT

      casualties.  Not gonna happen.

      Likewsie pediatric concussions. No way.

      I could go on – but you get the point.  We (humans) are generally better at dealing with the situation in the moment than plan anything longer term.  Ie – Crank the AC down, but there is no global warming, or if there is it’s not human caused, or if it is, we can’t do anything about it.

      However, in this moment- I’m pretty sure until the shooter showed up and started shooting he hadn’t broken any laws. Oh- maybe the canister, depending on what was in it.

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