Monday Open Thread

53
  by: Colorado Pols Mon August 27, 2012 at 3:26 PM MDT

“Hope of ill gain is the beginning of loss.”

–Democritus


Full story: Monday Open Thread

53 Community Comments, Facebook Comments

  1. dwyer says:
    Mon August 27, 2012 at 3:40 PM MDT

    Today, the Republican convention was going to focus on the “we did it ourselves”talking point.  Instead, based on information from the Hurricane Center of NOAA (The federal “National Oceanic and Atmosphere Agency” gave critical information that allowed city, state, and federal GOVERNMENTS to plan to protect citizens from possible Hurricane), the Republicans wisely postponed all conventions activity until NOAA indicated it would be safer for all participants.  The governor of Florida will not be speaking on “How We did it Ourselves.” Instead, he will be at work coordinating efforts among local, state and federal agencies.

    Gota love it.

    • parsingreality says:
      Mon August 27, 2012 at 4:13 PM MDT

      Or, many other things.  It’s like a guy that has a very popular blog that I frequent.  He thinks voting is absurd, there is the ghost of Rand always lurking, disdains collectivism, calls himself an anarchist.

      But this guy’s wife is a teacher, he used the intertubes, he flies hither and yon (Presumably on Anarchy Air), uses USDA info on food values, and on it goes.  

      Report from near Mittser’s coronation:  Isaac headed west suddenly.  The hours that were to be very rainy and windy last night were neither.  I have seen far worse thunderstorms and squalls.  The sun is poking around now (9 AM) days ahead of schedule.

      Now I need to undo most of the prep I did, get the patio furniture out of the pool, yard trash cans out of the house, etc. etc.  Oh well, it looks like Kirk many not be far behind.  No Kirk yet, but suspicious stuff off of Africa.

      • BlueCat says:
        Mon August 27, 2012 at 5:50 PM MDT

        on what’s going on than anything We’re getting via MSM. But then they’d rather milk drama.  

      • droll says:
        Tue August 28, 2012 at 6:09 AM MDT

        and not sorry (or half sorry, I hate extra work). Anyway, I worry.

        I’ve never met a dude called Kirk who wasn’t cool. I can’t imagine a storm would be different.

        Thank God God didn’t want to mess up the RNC too much, or you’d be in trouble! (He’s so mysterious.)

  2. SSG_Dan says:
    Mon August 27, 2012 at 5:01 PM MDT

    Strange Visitors from a distant, barren planet!

  3. DavidThi808DavidThi808 says:
    Mon August 27, 2012 at 5:19 PM MDT

    I figure it’s impolite to just disappear. Hence this comment. Last weekend I realized that over the last 6 months or so I gain no enjoyment from Pols. So I stopped hitting the site (to read or post).

    I think the problem is not Pols, but what our political conversation in general has become. And Pols is a reflection of that degradation.

    To all too many, opponents have become enemies. The response to ideas disagreed with is to denigrate the person posting it. The response to admitting a mistake is further opprobrium.

    Therefore I am leaving the echo chamber here on Pols. With that said, most people on here I like, both personally and in the discussions we have had.

    All the best to everyone.

    [*] – What movie is that from :)

    • Sir RobinSir Robin says:
      Mon August 27, 2012 at 5:31 PM MDT

      It’s never a bad time to pay more attention to our businesses.  

    • Diogenesdemar says:
      Mon August 27, 2012 at 5:36 PM MDT

      we’ll always have Paris.  

    • dmindgo says:
      Mon August 27, 2012 at 5:50 PM MDT

      too often a post made with no real information or facts is turned into an occasion for a personal attack.

      I hope you still lurk and make comments on substantive issues but you’re right that we probably won’t have any until the Leg goes back into session.

    • Lurker19 says:
      Mon August 27, 2012 at 5:52 PM MDT

      and I for one will miss you.  (Well, not the Russian thingies, they scared me, but all the rest including the techie stuff.)

      First Ralphie, now David.

      I propose we refuse to feed the trolls.  Then we won’t be so irritable when our friends say something we misconstrue.

      Whaddya think?

    • allyncooper says:
      Mon August 27, 2012 at 6:17 PM MDT

      “Gentlemen,  this is my last Pols post. You won’t have DavidThi808 to kick around anymore”

      But just like Tricky Dicky, I think you’ll make a comeback someday.

      As for me, with the elections gearing up to full speed and going from the ridiculous to the sublime, I’ll be mostly tuning out as well.  

    • PitaPita says:
      Mon August 27, 2012 at 6:22 PM MDT

      David, you “echo” much of why I have all but disappeared from Pols.  

      Hope you will stay in touch and if you head my way, I would enjoy seeing you over a cup of coffee or cold beer.  

    • Car 31 says:
      Mon August 27, 2012 at 8:15 PM MDT

      COPols before an election always turns into this. It has gotten worse over the years reflecting the national tenor.  

      Not many of the old timers are left, or if they are here, they don’t post much.

      Hope you lurk and occassionally post.

      Won’t miss your videos though. :)

    • JeffcoBlueJeffcoBlue says:
      Mon August 27, 2012 at 8:48 PM MDT

      You say the problem isn’t Pols, but you’re ceding the fight to the trolls that have made it unpleasant for you. I hate to admit but even I value your contributions here, David, and you shouldn’t punish this community because you’re sick of inane right wing trolls. You should fight them or ignore them, or both, but if you pick up and go home the trolls win.

      • BlueCat says:
        Mon August 27, 2012 at 9:19 PM MDT

        He’s probably sick of me and others who give him a hard time. We do spend way too much time on personal bickering.  I’m going to take a break myself.  Dave has (who’d a thunk?) inspired me. Think I’ll check for interesting, informative diaries but take a break from logging in and commenting. Maybe some of the less frequent participants, those who lurk but rarely say much, will step up and change the grumpy tone. Logging out…

        PS I spent an entire quarter being good and keeping my comments to a reasonable average per day number so naturally there was no frequent commenters run down for that quarter.  Since then I’ve let myself go so I expect a new one when the present quarter concludes.

        • ArapaGOPArapaGOP says:
          Tue August 28, 2012 at 12:27 AM MDT

          I’m regularly accused of all kinds of insane personal things. None of you know who I really am, so it doesn’t bother me, but I too wish the discussion here was more political and less personal bickering.

          I personally think you veer off course because you can’t debate conservatives on the merits. I’m sure you won’t agree.

          • Fidel's dirt nap says:
            Tue August 28, 2012 at 12:55 AM MDT

            you post the daily talking points, and then run away like a fucking nitwit.  With behavior like that, how could you even have a debate on the merits ?

          • Libertad says:
            Tue August 28, 2012 at 1:03 AM MDT

            DavidT is like many citizens that voted for Obama. In many, many, many cases these voters are rethinking that decision.

            In David’s case he intends to vote for Obama. However, when he’s presented some of the Obama administrations failures for debate he’s been roundly attacked and vilified.

            To ArapaGOPs point, not even liberals like Theilen can’t even have a level headed discussion with their own kind.

            Your bullying and tormenting probably wore on him. Hopefully for you leftists it is NOT a sign that he’s considering leaving his presidential line blank in November.

            • Fidel's dirt nap says:
              Tue August 28, 2012 at 1:13 AM MDT

              the same person who got penalty boxed for calling President Obama a silverback gorilla wants to talk about having a level headed discussion.

              • Libertad says:
                Tue August 28, 2012 at 2:49 AM MDT

                I have apologized to those offended and the CPols community for using that term.

                As you know the context of that word I was familiar with pertained to anyone who assumes the position of the superior dominant male. The one who takes the leading role in determining direction of the group or subgroup of followers. Similar to the king of the pride.

                Come to think of it, this is a perfect example of the crap that drives down pageviews and participation.

                • Duke Coxdukeco1 says:
                  Tue August 28, 2012 at 5:10 AM MDT

                  I wanna be a Crony – why be a tax payer when you can be a tax spender

                  is an example of such crap.

                  How can anyone take you seriously when you say shit like this? It’s either/or, you are saying, nez pas? Well it isn’t that way in real life. The vast, no…overwhelming  majority of us DO BOTH. All we ever get from you and ABOT are talking points and various varieties of baloney.

                  Until you show enough respect for the other people on this blog to actually refrain from repeatedly insulting our intelligence, you are unlikely to be met with bouquets and candy. Try this for a change…just be real.

                     

                  • Libertad says:
                    Tue August 28, 2012 at 6:52 AM MDT

                    Many posters put a sigline in their profile.

                    Now back to the issue at hand, DavidTs departure due to the meanness hes experienced and the lack of value he’s getting from CPols.

                    Thielen was at least an honest democrat who shared his concern for Obamas failures, offered changes and was strongly and nastily rebuked by his fellow democrats.

                    • Duke Coxdukeco1 says:
                      Tue August 28, 2012 at 1:49 PM MDT

                      that perfectly proves my point.

                      You didn’t even read my entire post. Your answer indicates that you didn’t bother to read more than the first two lines. Then you respond with an irrelevant answer that reflects nothing more than your obsession with turning every situation into an indictment of Democrats.

                      I repeat…you get no respect until you do something to earn it.

                    • Libertad says:
                      Wed August 29, 2012 at 9:05 AM MDT

                      Thielen only questioned Obamas failed policies and results, then tried to engage posters on why he was leaving CPols.

                      Nice attempt to do a drive by thread jack dukeco1

          • ClubTwittyClubTwitty says:
            Mon September 3, 2012 at 1:04 AM MDT

            Repeating verbatim the daily talking point isn’t making an argument.    

    • VoyageurVoyageur says:
      Mon August 27, 2012 at 11:17 PM MDT

      would say he’s leaving this board because it’s getting too personal!!!

        Seriously, David, you’ll be missed but I susect you’ll be back.  As an old hanger on to BBSes back even before the days of blogs (on a CPM computer with a 300 baud Hayes Smartmodem, just to date myself even more, I am familiar with the phenomena of blog burnout.

       You’ve been a mainstay for a long time and well expressed the moderate Democrat point of view, just as I addressed the moderate Republican viewpoint back in the day when Republicans were allowed to be moderates.

             Take a well-earned rest and come back in a few months, perhaps as a less intense participant.

       And on the bright side, at least I’ll still have Madco to kick around.;-)

  4. dwyer says:
    Mon August 27, 2012 at 9:46 PM MDT

    As I have posted here and elsewhere, I think that OFA/Obama campaign  is arrogant and has a tin ear for people.  

    Yesterday, during the Bronco game, they were out knocking on doors.  If they had asked, anyone locally would have told them that you don’t call or knock during a Bronco game…..I told them so last year, when I got a call during a playoff game.  Pisses me off.  It is exactly that kind of arrogance, elitist attitude that will lost the election.  

    • parsingreality says:
      Mon August 27, 2012 at 9:54 PM MDT

      Stupidity, perhaps, but not arrogance.  Don’t answer the phone (Caller ID?). or, excuse yourself rapidly.  Time lost?  What? Twenty seconds?  Oh, the agony.

      And not everyone worships sports.  

    • Diogenesdemar says:
      Mon August 27, 2012 at 10:23 PM MDT

      Oh, I forgot, parody is dead . . . And, get off my lawn!

      Seriously now, I honestly didn’t even know there was a game yesterday.  I’m truly Sorry, my bad.  I’ll tell Barack to ease it up; priorities — no sense in getting all carried away . . .

  5. dwyer says:
    Mon August 27, 2012 at 10:15 PM MDT

    Plus, you are assuming that it is the voters’ fault. ..that somehow the people being targeted are responsible for accommodating OFA….that is presisely what I am talking about…. I am just reporting how I felt and how my neighbors reacted….if you want votes; if you want people to respond to your candidate, you court them and treat them with respect….you don’t annoy them/

    stupidity and arrogance are not mutually exclusive….

    • sxp151 says:
      Mon August 27, 2012 at 11:32 PM MDT

      Before 5 most people are at work, after 5 they want to have dinner or relax watching TV (should nobody knock while American Idol is on?), on the weekend they’re busy with something else. Some people just find it stressful talking to strangers, and literally any time I’ve ever gone knocking, there are a couple people who are just pissed off that I’m on their porch and touching their doors. Phone is often even worse (since people don’t even have to act polite to someone they can’t see). And plenty of people are enraged that they are being mailed literature or that they have to watch political ads on TV.

      As a complainer myself, I know: no matter what you do, someone will complain about it as though you just poisoned his dog.

      • dwyer says:
        Tue August 28, 2012 at 3:31 AM MDT

        Those OFA workers were evidently trying to register voters…a noble effort.  But there are better ways to do it….for example”

        1) Set up a center, publicize it.

        2) Leaflet, quietly, silently, telling people how to contact OFA to make an appointment for someone to come to the house and register them…or publicize the place people can go to register…

        National polls show Romney pulling ahead or even…..OFA is not enough to win this election….

        They are robotic in their approach…they are lockstep and they have not corrected course based on any feedback…..and they are the Obama campaign….all the bright Democratic operatives are sitting this one out…I don’t know why….they are sitting in TV studio saying what the Democrats and Obama “should” do….and the state democratic organizations have been rendered impotent….party because of Big money and party because Obama mistakenly thought he could run a national organization..and bypass state parties….

        Campaigns are an important test because they demonstrates how the candidate connects with the electorate and who will work with him and how he manages…

        • sxp151 says:
          Tue August 28, 2012 at 4:17 PM MDT

          Who is going to contact a phone number based on a flyer left by a campaign to see where they can register to vote? It may remind people to register to vote (until they forget again), but will not result in anything useful.

          Probably the most useful thing I did in 2008 was to register a bunch of CU students to vote by going door to door. You can’t register them by standing on Pearl Street with a clipboard (everyone in Boulder has a learned aversion to talking to clipboarders on the street). And you can’t get them to register if you don’t talk to them, since they have no idea they can even register in Colorado if they’re paying out-of-state tuition, or that Colorado is a swing state and their home state is not.

          These are things unique to Boulder, of course, but I just don’t see your approach getting any kind of results. You can’t win by being meek.

          • dwyer says:
            Tue August 28, 2012 at 4:47 PM MDT

            First, 2012 is not 2008.  College students were wildly enthusiastic for Obama and engaged in the election.

            Most importantly, you knew Boulder and your approach was based on that.  

            Second, my comments were based on the feedback I got Monday from my friends who were OFA volunteers on Sunday, August 25, 2012. The idea of a center/flyer came from one of the citizens who was angry at being interrupted on a Sunday afternoon.  The OFA volunteers did not get a good response.  That is real. That is what happened.  That is called feedback.  So you adjust your strategy to meet what you are learning from the field, TODAY.  

            I do think that you reflect one of the very real problems with the Obama campaign….and that is trying to duplicate what worked in 2008, and not being able to adjust to the very different climate of 2012. That is what I mean by robotic and lock step.

            Ironically, this is when the old party infrastructure would really have helped.  Committee people used to know their neighborhoods…they were the most knowledgeable to know what would work in their neighborhood.  Don’t knock on doors during a Bronco game – do hit Starbucks in the early am….or an after church crowd…or a bus stop line…..or the local grocery store…..

            That party infrastructure is all but gone…for a variety of reason – the power of the PACs,

            the use of social networking that is not neighborhood bound, the move to voting centers and not precinct based voting, as well as the nationalization of party structure by OFA/Obama.

            You do not win elections by browbeating voters….trust  me.

            • dwyer says:
              Tue August 28, 2012 at 4:53 PM MDT

              This “let’s go knock on doors” seem to permeate the OFA organizers…I have another friend who went to the recent opening of a new Obama campaign office….and after the initial “meet and greet” hoopla (which I think is just fine)….the “people in charge” wanted everyone to spread out and “knock on doors”….it was like 98 degrees in the shade and the people who were invited to the opening or who showed up for the opening, were not necessarily familiar with or TO the neighborhood…..that is lousy planning….and ya, some people are not going to volunteer based on that experience….

              People are entitled to their own feelings and reactions…..

  6. dwyer says:
    Mon August 27, 2012 at 10:20 PM MDT

    I usually listen to local talk radio streaming on my computer….tried that last week and found that I heart radio now requires that people register in order to listen….I decided I didn’t want my email and name in their hands….and so I cut down on listing to Boyles, Gloria, and Brownie/Sirota… I listen to national talk on ITunes, instead.

    Do you know anything why Clear Channel and/or I heart radio went to requiring listeners to “log in?”  My thought is it will cut down on listeners…

  7. harrydobyharrydoby says:
    Mon August 27, 2012 at 10:55 PM MDT

    Some marketing consultant told them how to monetize their listenership.  Capture the demographics of their online audience and use it to show their advertisers how valuable they are.

    If you are anonymous, you have no perceived value other than counting the number of IP addresses connected to the audio stream.

    There’s no way to assign a monetary metric to your connection — as in how much you might buy of an advertiser’s product.

  8. Libertad says:
    Tue August 28, 2012 at 12:42 AM MDT

    The President has made the turn, coming into the last two turns our President has seen his total approve/disapproval number cross intot he positive.

    Intensity of support or opposition can have an impact on campaigns. Currently, 28% …. Strongly Approve of the way Obama is performing as president. Forty percent (40%) Strongly Disapprove, giving him a Presidential Approval Index rating of -12 (see trends).

    You know the source – http://www.rasmussenreports.com – and will begin to love it as the refocus by Obama, union bosses and his Super PACs begins to generate the turnout required for his apparent victory. As I’ve predicted, you liberal leftists will have another 4 years with Obama as President.

    This week presents some unique challenges: RNC Tampa Bay and 2016: Obama’s America.

    Hopefully you can tamp down the fever on that new movie 2016: Obama’s America. Its garnering an 82% “LIKE” rating. Now I haven’t seen a single news report on this movie which means your media strategy is working, however, you have yet to unleash the dogs to vilify this documentary on Obama. Here’s the summary:

    2016 Obama’s America takes audiences on a gripping visual journey into the heart of the world’s most powerful office to reveal the struggle of whether one man’s past will redefine America over the next four years. The film examines the question, “If Obama wins a second term, where will we be in 2016?” Across the globe and in America, people in 2008 hungered for a leader who would unite and lift us from economic turmoil and war. True to America’s ideals, they invested their hope in a new kind of president, Barack Obama. What they didn’t know is that Obama is a man with a past, and in powerful ways that past defines him–who he is, how he thinks, and where he intends to take America and the world. Love him or hate him, you don’t know him.

    http://www.rottentomatoes.com/…

    • SSG_Dan says:
      Tue August 28, 2012 at 1:34 AM MDT

      at least you’re consistent. Moving from one fantasy world to the other.

      You should read the horrific reviews this “film” has on the same website you link to…it’s 50% which is more than enough for a green splat, and not the 82% you lie about.  

      I believe “Battleship” and “Think like a Man” got better reviews.

      My favorite critical quote:

      “D’Souza’s one-sided argument ultimately stoops to fear-mongering of the worst kind, stating in no uncertain terms that, if the president is reelected, the world four years from now will be darkened by the clouds of economic collapse, World War III (thanks to the wholesale renunciation of our nuclear superiority) and a terrifyingly ascendant new ‘United States of Islam’ in the Middle East. These assertions are accompanied by footage of actual dark clouds and horror-movie music.”

  9. SSG_Dan says:
    Tue August 28, 2012 at 1:54 AM MDT

    A group of retired special operations and CIA officers who claim President Barack Obama revealed secret missions and turned the killing of Osama bin Laden into a campaign centerpiece are coming under criticism from some of their own.

    Some special operations officers say the activist veterans are breaking a sacred military creed: respect for the commander in chief.

    “This is an unprofessional, shameful action on the part of the operators that appear in the video, period,” U.S. Army Special Forces Maj. Fernando Lujan wrote on his Facebook page, to a chorus of approval from colleagues.

    A Green Beret who returned last year from Afghanistan, Lujan says that attaching the title of special operator with any political campaign is “in violation of everything we’ve been taught, and the opposite of what we should be doing, which is being quiet professionals.”

    http://www.wivb.com/dpp/news/n…

    Money Quote from retired Navy SEAL Capt. Rick Woolard, who commanded several SEAL units:

    “But I would prefer that SEALs and other special operators would sit down and shut the hell up.”

  10. Diogenesdemar says:
    Tue August 28, 2012 at 2:18 AM MDT

    Just finished my third, and am headed home now.   Pretty fine happy hour, considering . . .  

  11. Barron X says:
    Tue August 28, 2012 at 3:10 AM MDT

    suppose a federal law enforcement agency calls and says they need to speak to you right away, preferably in your home, or in their office downtown.  

    Now, I’m a 1st Amendment asshole, and therefore have no rights.  

    But if this happened to YOU, do you have a right to know what its about before waltzing into their office, where you could be detained for no reason ?  

    Would you be allowed to bring legal counsel ?

    Kinda urgent ( tomorrow morning.)  

    • Diogenesdemar says:
      Tue August 28, 2012 at 4:48 AM MDT

      maybe better pack your toothbrush and soap-on-a-rope — just in case . . .

      Seriously, you didn’t ask them any questions, such as “Why?”, or “Could you tell me what this is about, please?”

      Call them in the morning and ask. If you don’t get satisfactory answers, have your attorney call them and tell them you won’t be able to come in unless they can provide him with that additional information and an explanation.  Let your attorney tell you how to proceed.  

    • parsingreality says:
      Tue August 28, 2012 at 5:04 AM MDT

      ….to not pretend I know WTF I’m talking about.

      But what I’ve observed in L&O and who knows how many fictional and non-fictional whodunnits of both the video and printed kind, they would have to arrest me to go downtown.  Once there, they are in control.  Make you wait, one way glass, taped.  

      I don’t know what is going on, why you asked this question, but the best to you and please keep us posted.  

      If you can.  

  12. Diogenesdemar says:
    Tue August 28, 2012 at 6:36 AM MDT

    APNewsBreak: Few on Gessler list are Republican

    DENVER (AP) – Democrats and independent voters got 86 percent of the requests to withdraw from voting rolls if they’re not citizens as part of an initiative from Colorado’s Republican Secretary of State.

    The breakdown renewed skepticism that Scott Gessler has a political motivation in sending the letters.  His office provided the figures to The Associated Press Monday.

    http://www.9news.com/news/loca…

    . . . actually, I am kinda surprised — I thought Gessler would make it into the high 90s.

    Awaiting that “reasonable explanation” from the usual suspect . . .

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