Wednesday Open Thread

“If you seek truth you will not seek victory by dishonorable means, and if you find truth you will become invincible.”

–Epictetus

138 Community Comments, Facebook Comments

  1. parsingreality says:

    Of the Confederate States of America.

  2. allyncooper says:

    Photobucket

    Disgruntled Republicans moving to Canada or Australia, stoners moving to Colorado.  

  3. Albert J. Nock says:

    I don’t have a solution to what you are about to read.  The earth will be devastated if we “grow our way out of this.”  Knockster needs your help…

    I apologize for what you’re about to read

    Simon Black on November 6, 2012

    November 6, 2012,

    Dallas, Texas.

    It’s really hard to ignore what’s happening today; the election phenomenon is global.

    Over the last several weeks, I’ve traveled to so many countries, and EVERYWHERE it seems, the US presidential election is big news. Even when I was in Myanmar ten days ago, local pundits were engaged in the Obamney debate. Chile. Spain. Germany. Finland. Hong Kong. Thailand. Singapore. It was inescapable.

    The entire world seems fixated on this belief that it actually matters who becomes the President of the United States anymore… or that one of these two guys is going to ‘fix’ things.

    Fact is, it doesn’t matter. Not one bit. And I’ll show you mathematically:

    1) When the US federal government spends money, expenses are officially categorized in three different ways.

    Discretionary spending includes nearly everything we think of related to government- the US military, Air Force One, the Department of Homeland Security, TSA agents who sexually assault passengers, etc.

    Mandatory spending includes entitlements like Medicare, Social Security, VA benefits, etc. which are REQUIRED by law to be paid.

    The final category is interest on the debt. It is non-negotiable.

    Mandatory spending and debt interest go out the door automatically. It’s like having your mortgage payment autodrafted from your bank account- Congress doesn’t even see the money, it’s automatically deducted.

    2) With the rise of baby boomer entitlements and steady increase in overall debt levels, mandatory spending and interest payments have exploded in recent years. In fact, the Congressional Budget Office predicted in 2010 that the US government’s TOTAL revenue would be exceeded by mandatory spending and interest expense within 15-years.

    That’s a scary thought. Except it happened the very next year.

    3) In Fiscal Year 2011, the federal government collected $2.303 trillion in tax revenue. Interest on the debt that year totaled $454.4 billion, and mandatory spending totaled $2,025 billion. In sum, mandatory spending plus debt interest totaled $2.479 trillion… exceeding total revenue by $176.4 billion.

    For Fiscal Year 2012 which just ended 37 days ago, that shortfall increased 43% to $251.8 billion.

    In other words, they could cut the entirety of the Federal Government’s discretionary budget- no more military, SEC, FBI, EPA, TSA, DHS, IRS, etc.- and they would still be in the hole by a quarter of a trillion dollars.

    4) Raising taxes won’t help. Since the end of World War II, tax receipts in the US have averaged 17.7% of GDP in a very tight range. The low has been 14.4% of GDP, and the high has been 20.6% of GDP.

    During that period, however, tax rates have been all over the board. Individual rates have ranged from 10% to 91%. Corporate rates from 15% to 53%. Gift taxes, estate taxes, etc. have all varied. And yet, total tax revenue has stayed nearly constant at 17.7% of GDP.

    It doesn’t matter how much they increase tax rates- they won’t collect any more money.

    5) GDP growth prospects are tepid at best. Facing so many headwinds like quickening inflation, an enormous debt load, and debilitating regulatory burdens, the US economy is barely keeping pace with population growth.

    6) The only thing registering any meaningful growth in the US is the national debt. It took over 200 years for the US government to accumulate its first trillion dollars in debt. It took just 286 days to accumulate the most recent trillion (from $15 trillion to $16 trillion).

    Last month alone, the first full month of Fiscal Year 2013, the US government accumulated nearly $200 billion in new debt- 20% of the way to a fresh trillion in just 31 days.

    7) Not to mention, the numbers will only continue to get worse. 10,000 people each day begin receiving mandatory entitlements. Fewer people remain behind to pay into the system. The debt keeps rising, and interest payments will continue rising.

    8) Curiously, a series of polls taken by ABC News/Washington Post and NBC News/Wall Street Journal show that while 80% of Americans are concerned about the debt, roughly the same amount (78%) oppose cutbacks to mandatory entitlements like Medicare.

    9) Bottom line, the US government is legally bound to spend more money on mandatory entitlements and interest than it can raise in tax revenue. It won’t make a difference how high they raise taxes, or even if they cut everything else that remains in government as we know it.

    This is not a political problem, it’s a mathematical one. Facts are facts, no matter how uncomfortable they may be. Today’s election is merely a choice of who is going to captain the sinking Titanic.

    http://www.sovereignman.com/ex

    • parsingreality says:

      Just by the length, not even glancing at the words.

      Well, regardless of what is probably idiotic content, I give you creds for showing up this AM, ahead of Tad ‘n Bot.  If they will.

      • VanDammerVanDammer says:

        ‘turd troll claims it’s gonna take time away (we’ll see) and didn’t AGOPher also promise some self-imposed dark time if RMoney flamed out?

        There were some Republican drive-bys yesterday that only seem to come out on Election Day so it would seem we get a bit of time to enjoy our successes amongst ourselves.

        Our resident righties do not like to listen to facts and are hell bent on learning avoidance so there will be no constructive dialogue with them today.  

    • parsingreality says:

      Select something short as a good teaser, then link.

      Not that we would ever click on it anyway…..

    • rocco says:

      Way back then you were fine with voter supression, voter intimidation, outrageous lies from YOUR side, vicious racism, basically anything that might put a totally unqualified and amoral scoundrel in the White House, so long as he’s white and a redleg.

      24 hours ago you didn’t care about any of that.

      You didn’t even TRUST your candidate. You held your nose and voted for a creepy white dude, just to get “the black guy” out.

      “Country be damned, just beat the muslim” should have been your party’s bumper sticker.

      Now all of a sudden you’re concerned. Your party’s obstructed this President’s efforts to solve problems for four years and now it’s his fault!

      Get over it asshole.

      Or move.

      Or don’t. Who cares?

      Grow up. And that means every race bating, entitlement mooching, Obamacare using, ill informed redleg out there.

      We’ve got a mandate and you have no moral ground to stand on when you’re fine with denying people the right to vote so long as your guy “wins”.

      The President won and the DemocratIC Party strengthened its’ grip on the Senate.

      In spite of almost 1 million stolen Democratic votes in Ohio and who knows how many in Florida and Pennsylvania.

      Here’s a tip. Life’s easier if you don’t hate everybody else.

      Grow up.      

  4. parsingreality says:

    For the first time ever, a Democratic presidential candidate won absentee ballots – typically a Republican strength – in Miami-Dade County, with Obama eking out a 382-vote margin. That was a leading indicator of Obama’s strong grassroots campaign, which involved 200,000 unpaid volunteers who helped register 320,000 new voters this year.

    All about what’s going on at http://www.miamiherald.com/201

  5. DavidThi808DavidThi808 says:

    State Senate District 25

    Laura Thielen [D] – 57.1%

    Fred Hemmings [R] – 38.9%

    So there are now two Thielens in the Hawaii legislature. Both independent and strong environmental advocates.

    US Senator

    Mazie Hirono [D] – 61.6%

    Linda Lingle [R] – 36.8%

    When my mom ran for US Senator against Daniel Akaka, and she had just 3 months to do so – she also got 36.8%. But did so in a lot less time with a lot less money.

  6. parsingreality says:

    …is that money and treachery are no guarantees of victory.  

    I guess all those Billionaires will hunker down in Galttown and plot their next takeover.

    Another observation is that, overall, Americans are totally fed up with the duration and media intensity of this campaign.

    I doubt if it will happen, but it would be good if we started changing some laws to prevent a total repeat in 2016.  Overturn Citizens United, make the electoral college proportional by House seats as Maine does, encourage states to do instant runoff voting, make the contributors to PAC’s transparent.

    At the least.

  7. Whiskey Lima JulietWhiskey Lima Juliet says:

    To the Mayor Micheal Hancock and Gov. John Hickenlooper,

    We voted last night to legalize marijuana in Colorado.  1,250,000 Coloradoans voted in favor of patients, business, job creation and stopping the racist policies of the police.  

    I would suggest you support my industry.  They are hungry for respect and they have just discovered their new political clout.  I look forward in helping channel that clout toward people that understand the 100,000 patients, 700 businesses, 6000 employees and millions of tax revenue.

    • ClubTwitty says:

      Despite massive influx of frack money.  

    • Albert J. Nock says:

      First of all, it was the citizens initiative process that legalized marijuana, not the elected officials. Research HB 1326, 2009 and learn just how close you were to losing the right to petition.  You should learn who filed the injunction against HB1326 and buy each one of them a bud.

      Secondly, the battle has just begun. The tyrants will go into overdrive trying to repeal and circumvent # 64 and abolish the initiative process.  Some of your largest petition enemy’s reside right here at CPols…

      Don’t become arrogant and pompous, it will destroy the cause, just ask Doug Bruce about Tabor, who ironically spearheaded the injunction against HB 1326.  Thank goodness 1 member of the injunction group was brilliant enough to recruit Mason Tvert into the injunction; the court system would have laughed at us.

       Jon Caldara was in the fetal position sucking on a bottle of whiskey when we asked him for money( Lane is not cheap), of course he tried to take all the credit…

    • RegisteredRepublican says:

      Like the ill-advised and ill-fated Amendment 2, passed in 1996, Amendment 64 will never be enacted.  

      Look for a federal court injunction to block its implementation… based on the simple legal premise that a state amendment cannot take precedence over a federal law, passed by Congress, signed by a president, and — thus far — deemed to be quite constitutional.  It will languish in the court system for about four years before the SCOTUS rules it unconstitutional.  

      The governor, Denver mayor, and the U.S. Attorney are opposed to having this amendment ever taking effect.  That’s a lot of firepower to undermine the pot amendment.

      More importantly, Barack Obama is opposed to the legalization of marijuana… and he really doesn’t care if he has your support anymore.  He no longer needs it!    

      • Gorky PulviczekG Pulviczek says:

        Amendment 2 was found to be unconstitutional – i.e. it conflicted with the US Constitution.

        To me, it does not look like Amendment 64 is unconstitutional.  That said, it is probable that an expanded view of the Commerce Clause enables the federal legislation to stay effective in Colorado – for federal law enforcement.  However, I don’t believe the legislation can compel Colorado law enforcement to do its bidding.

        Look for another “enforce federal MJ law or have your highway funds revoked” push from the “conservatives.”

      • AristotleAristotle says:

        Maybe not exactly this way (and certainly not about your off-topic aside about Obama), but I’m certain this law will not be allowed to take effect.

        Even so, that’s not the point. Politicians have safely assumed that the public was on their side regarding the disastrous prohibition of marijuana, and the success of initiatives here and in Washington are a clear signal that that’s no longer the case. Drug law reform is going to become a major issue in the 2010′s, and the tide is with those of us who support common-sense regulation and legal distribution.

      • Whiskey Lima JulietWhiskey Lima Juliet says:

        I got 100,000 patients, 6000 employees and 700 business owners that are ready to remove the mayor and governor.  The AG is termed out, we know who we are putting in that office.

        Colorado was just one piece of the American mandate on pot!  Massachusetts voted for medical marijuana.  That makes 18 states and the District of Columbia that allow medicinal marijuana and two states, CO and WA that legalized!  Arkansas voted 48 to 52! Arkansas! As a political consultant I dare someone to run AGAINST POT.  As of this morning, we are looking at weak seats….the Mayors seat is at the top of the list.

        WE GOT THIS!

      • VoyageurVoyageur says:

        So now, we have a conflict between the federal preemption clause of the U.S. Constitution and the 9th and 10th amendments.

          What ought to happen next is that 10 or 12 other states follow our lead.  When Congress sees the people have had enough of the drug war, they will legalize pot as they did booze.

          I have been a soldier and know that wars are not fought against inanimate objects.  This is not a war on drugs, it is a war against people who use drugs.  And it’s time to end it in the case of marijuana.  

      • (I.e. there’s nothing in the US Constitution and court interpretations that would prohibit the state from making MJ legal.) But Federal law probably overrides it under the Commerce Clause.

        However, there’s a legal challenge to the classification of MJ that was just heard in court that could make the Feds back off.

        More importantly, this is one of those changes that come from state level challenges to Federal law, just like the DOMA challenge. It’s funny how Republicans these days are all about States’ Rights until they meet a Federal law they like – usually an authoritarian one.

        • Automaticftp says:

          Amendment 64 is not unconstitutional under the federal constitution.  64 falls under the police power of the state.  As such, Colorado is free to legalize marijuana, as we have done.  That means the state won’t be able to prosecute people criminally for possessing marijuana (as long as they’re under the limit).  

          HOWEVER:

          Amendment 64 has zero effect on federal law, which still defines marijuana as an illegal drug.  Hence, someone can be prosecuted by the federal government for marijuana possession in any amount – the state law is not a shield from federal prosecution.

          Finally, federal law does not preempt state law here, because the federal government cannot require state agencies to enforce federal law.  The federal government CAN provide money for such enforcement, but it cannot dictate to the states that they must use state agencies to enforce purely federal laws.

          • I think we’re talking the same thing, but differently.

            Federal law will pre-empt A64′s classification of MJ as “legal”. While the state won’t prosecute it due to A64, it is still “illegal” under Federal law, and all the things allowed by A64 are still illegal under Federal law and prosecutable in Federal courts.

            Local law enforcement can still talk to the DEA or FBI as they feel it to be in their interests, either as a tool to bust someone they can’t catch any other way (think Al Capone and the IRS), or because they don’t agree with A64 and want to harass the industry.

            Until this is fixed at the Federal level, weed users growers and sellers will still have problems.

          • Albert J. Nock says:

            But Republican tyrant King Lincoln perverted Federalism beyond all recognition.

            Real Federalism would never enact blanket policy’s that cover all 50 States…

            This New Federalism works tirelessly to destroy State individuality, contrary to the original United States Constitution and Federalism…

            • bobewegen says:

              Republican tyrant King Lincoln perverted Federalism beyond all recognition.

                Poor wittle Nockworst.  He can’t even own slaves because of that mean ole Lincoln.   And if Nockworst can’t own slaves, life isn’t worth living.  

              • Albert J. Nock says:

                What if Obama, in the name of perpetual union, in response to #64, waged a 4 year long drug war towards Colorado, which ultimately killed 650,000 American Citizens?

                BTW, Lincoln was a Republican and he waged the civil war because of taxes and Secession , not slavery. The Republican spin machine has revised history as to paint Lincoln an anti-slavery saint. Do some real research and stop believing everything they taught you at public school…

                • Gray in Mountains says:

                  go anywhere they will take you

                • AristotleAristotle says:

                  and didn’t posited real hypothetical questions instead of fantasies that would make L. Ron Hubbard blush? (Let alone challenge his proven intellectual superiors on matters of history. Can’t wait for Bob to let you have it.)

                  • Albert J. Nock says:

                    is equivalent to what Lincoln did.

                    Lincoln waged treason against the South, needlessly murdering 650,000 Americans all in the name of perpetual union.

                    Colorado has now partially succeeded with #64, will the Feds attack/treaason?

                    • AristotleAristotle says:

                      Such a severe miscomprehension of history will not influence any but the most cretinous racist mind.

                    • UglyAmericanUglyAmerican says:

                      Nock, I’m sympathetic, but what does that even mean?

                      And btw, you’re just wrong about the Civil War. Read more. I went from conventional thinking to agreeing with the State’s Rights version and back to conventional thinking. It’s not a history but I found Uncle Tom’s Cabin the most compelling piece of literature on the subject.  

                • bobewegen says:

                  nobody believes his lies and everybody thinks he is stupid, stupid, stupid.  But as Abraham Lincoln said:

                    “Some of the people know that Albert Jehoshaphat Nockworst is stupid some of the time, but eventually all of the people know that Nockworst is stupid all of the time.”

                    You are stupid, stupid, stupid.  I know more about the civil war in general and lincoln in particular than you ever would hope to know, given your tiny brain and your belief in fascism as America’s only hope of getting the darkies back in line, so they don’t like, you know, riot as you insisted they would if Obama wasn’t re-elected.

                    You know, everybody on this board thinks you are stupid and repellant.  It is clearly a base where majority rules!

      • CaninesCanines says:

        Maybe. Perhaps. Could be, could be.

        But in thirty days or so, Coloradans over 21 will have the right to possess an ounce and to grow their own plants. That aspect of the law isn’t going to go away and it’s not going to be struck down by some higher court, and there’s little the feds will be able to do resource-wise about that. No more arrests on someone’s record for simple possession. No more police being allowed to search a person’s domicile if the police smell marijuana. And so on and so on.

         

  8. DavidThi808DavidThi808 says:

    Wait, that’s unfair. 4 more years of talking about the economy while doing nothing.

    Yes Romney would have bee worse. But my feeling this morning is akin to just being missed by an out of control driver. I’m glad I wasn’t run over, but it’s more relief than joy.

    I am happy about the results for the Senate. Tea party candidates once again losing, Democrats retaining control (again more relief than joy), and, the best news of the evening, Warren won. Yes the Senate remains owned by Wall St (including our two) but there is now an additional smart articulate voice added to the minority that puts America ahead of Wall St.

    • RegisteredRepublican says:

      that voters across the nation decided it was best to leave the GOP in charge of the U.S. House… and the country’s purse strings.  

      Before the election, the Republicans led 242-193.  With those races where the outcome is definitely known — including the seven congressional races in Colorado — the GOP lead 233-190.  With 14 races still up in the air, the Republicans could still potentially gain seats in 2012.  

      In any event, the people will never give this president both houses of Congress again… just like they did not give Bill Clinton a Democratic Congress during the last six years of his presidency, which is probably why his time in office is viewed so favorably.

       

      • parsingreality says:

        ….was not this radical, Tea Party House.  They still got some important things done despite the lopsidely partisan impeachment process.

        I wouldn’t read a whole hell of a lot into the increased Republican seats in the house, just like I wouldn’t read too much into the increased Democratic/Independent seats in the Senate.  Which you conveniently forgot about.  

      • AristotleAristotle says:

        Both parties do everything they can to ensure that Congressional districts remain solidly in the hands of one side or the other. I think the House results mostly a reflection of that.

        • Diogenesdemar says:

          been able to come up with to begin to explain the 2012 Senate/House dichotomy . . .

          Congressional districts are easy to gerrymander — States, not so much.

          . . . of course, Boehner’s already said it was Americans everywhere voting his tribe back in because of their opposition to any tax increases.

        • Analysis I’ve seen says that Republicans gerrymandered themselves a net +3 seats across the nation. I haven’t seen any analysis of how intractable the new lines may have made various candidates.

          If Democrats hold even they’ll have done at least not poorly. (dKos currently lists the new House makeup as +5 Dems, but as RR notes, a number of these races aren’t called yet.)

      • Okay, maybe not. It’s probably just post-election delusion (or so I tell myself to keep me from thinking worse of you and your party…).

        Obama’s approval is down because of the lack of swifter recovery – and Republicans openly conspired to drag down this economy to prevent him from having a good approval rating (see any number of comments from elected GOP officials, including Sen. Mitch McConnell).

        The partisan silliness of current House lines is what will save Republicans from a Democratic House takeover for now. See Florida – went for Obama, but in any race where lines are drawn legislatively, completely lopsided for the GOP due to gerrymandering. Or Texas, where a non-partisan map would have netted about 5 more seats for Democrats.

        The House is as broken as the Senate right now; where the Senate is hobbled by old rules abused by new extremists, the House is held hostage to partisan gerrymandering and an artificial and increasingly unrepresentative limit on the number of members.

      • Gray in Mountains says:

        it has long been known that constituents think the House is incompetent but think their own Rep is good. That is all last night means. It is NOT folks all over the country deciding they want Rs in control of pursestrings

  9. ClubTwitty says:

    Former Republican 22 minutes ago

    One of the more fascinating aspects of this election is that after hundreds of millions of dollars spent by billionaires to try and buy this election they collectively had less of an impact then a smartphone video made by a waiter in Florida.

    BillyBudd7 and 2 more liked this

    maggiemae 7 minutes ago in reply to Former Republican

    Romney got bested by someone probably making 10 bucks an hour.

    I guess he never heard of iphones. Also, it didn’t help him the Romney campaign lied about moving jeep jobs to China–an out and out lie!!!

  10. AristotleAristotle says:

    is the very different ways they happened in Colorado and Washington.

    Longtime polsters know that I lived in Seattle for a number of years and that I still follow some of the news there. And there, the medical marijuana industry was opposed to legalization. I couldn’t quite fathom why, but it appeared as if they didn’t want their monopoly on legal pot threatened. In a way, it can be viewed as a tacit admission that a significant number of medical marijuana’s patients are actually ordinary pot consumers who aren’t suffering from any of the ailments pot is known to treat.

    I never saw much of anything like that here. The only voice for medical marijuana on this site, Whiskey Lima Juliette, was also a vocal pro-legalization proponent. It makes me wonder what’s up with Washington’s MMJ industry.

    • Whiskey Lima JulietWhiskey Lima Juliet says:

      Many are not political, so u will never hear from them.  They are concerned about competition and the Feds coming in.  We were divided. Many are fearful in this industry.   I am not.  I say take the fight to them.  Bring it.  I know where the American public is at and it is not with the Feds.

      I don’t believe for one minute any politician is going to have the balls to stand up against this.  We showed them last night that this policy of arresting people for use is over!

      As far as competition, love that as well.  No one has ever said there are too many restaurant choices.  I look forward to what is coming.

      • AristotleAristotle says:

        That’s a very encouraging and heartening statement. It also explains the paradox I was experiencing.

        • Albert J. Nock says:

          I know a carpenter who installs turnkey grow rooms, he hates #64.

          I know a doctor who prescribes MM for $100 bucks cash 8 at a time(group clinic setting), he hates #64.

          I know many indoor grow supply manufactures and suppliers, they hate #64.

          I know many MM growers who smuggle outside Stateline’s for 2-4K per pound, they hate #64.

          I know a few DEA agents whose lively hood depends on drug prohibition, they hate #64.

          I know a few folk employed by the judicial system whom depend upon a perpetual stream of criminals, they hate #64.

          I know a few alcohol suppliers and manufacturers, they hate#64.

          I know a few barrio residents who have 1 job, drug dealer, they hate #64.

          I know a few doctors who make a living killing people by prescribing 10-15 contradicting medicines, they hate #64.

          I know several Republican authoritarians, they hate #64.

          I know several Democrat authoritarians, they hate #64.

          I know several non-Biblical church folk, they hate #64.

          I know many Cannabis consumers and non- consumers who have been brainwashed by 1 or more of the above, they all hate #64.

          Personally, people should be mostly free, and #64 is 1 step closer to freedom.  

          Yeah freedom!!!!

    • parsingreality says:

      My brother, his wife, and almost everyone there grows for MM sale. W/o pot growing, the county and others up there would be like Appalachia.  The sheriff doesn’t care, the power company loves the electricity sales.

      Such a sweet scenario would be heavily impacted by legalization.

    • CaninesCanines says:

      You can read up on the whole initiative shebang at your old alt-weekly, if you so choose:

      http://www.seattleweekly.com/2

  11. VoyageurVoyageur says:

    from the san francisco chronicle blog:

    Statewide ballot measures to legalize same-sex marriage took the lead in Washington and passed in Maryland and Maine on Tuesday, as proponents of marriage equality broke a string of 32 consecutive losses in statewide votes on the contentious social issue.

    Referendum 74 in this state was leading 51.8 percent to 48.2 percent, largely on the strength of support from populous King County and other Puget Sound counties.  It was being roundly rejected in Eastern Washington and in more socially conservative counties of Southwest Washington.

    In a state that rejected marriage equality in 2009, same-sex marriage passed by a narrow 52-48 percent margin in Maine.  The contest won a 52-48 percent victory in Maryland, where Catholic Archbishop William Lori required priests to read a pastoral letter denouncing same-sex marriage from the pulpits of his diocese.

    But opponents of same-sex marriage faced a stinging defeat in a fourth state.  Minnesota voters were rejecting a state constitutional amendment – relentlessly promoted by Catholic bishops, but opposed by Protestant denominations and Catholic laity – that would have defined marriage as between a man and a woman.

       Assuming the washington state lead held up, that’s quite a night for marriage equality backers, who had never before won a direct popular vote as opposed to court or legislative actions legalizing same-sex marriage.

  12. Whiskey Lima JulietWhiskey Lima Juliet says:

    “”Despite my strongly held belief that the ‘legalization’ of marijuana on a state level is very bad public policy, voters can be assured that the Attorney General’s Office will move forward in assisting the pertinent executive branch agencies to implement this new provision in the Colorado Constitution.”

    http://www.koaa.com/news/co-at

  13. dwyer says:

    I am glad that Obama won and that he carried Colorado…..I am glad that my projections and concerns proved not to work out.

    I can not believe that those arrogant, elitiest, top down OFA people carried this off! damm, now they will be around forever.  I stand in awe.

    I was wrong, thank god.  

  14. CaninesCanines says:

    That said, that is all.

  15. BlueCat says:

    not for long.  Latest I could find has Miklosi 45% to Coffman 50%.  That breaks a long, long streak of 2 to 1 or worse defeats for Dems in CD6 and shows remarkable strength for a little known Dem fighting an incumbent who finally started getting some serious money too late in a race that turned from a no-hoper to a maybe too late.

    What this means for Dems in the new CD 6 is that next time there will be serious money and support from the get go and there will be no problem recruiting some nice, high profile, popular, bigger name rec Dem to jump in. I predict we’ll take CD6 in 2014 with little chance of losing it for a long time to come thanks to the new district and demographics.  

    So enjoy CD6 while you can, Rs, and get ready to kiss it goodbye. That may not be all Rs will be kissing goodbye in 2014 either. Ti-i-i-ime is on our si-ide. Yes i-it is… song too old for many here but…

  16. PitaPita says:

    Popular Vote

    Obama Romney

    Total 60,049,284 57,370,266

    Percent     50.3%          48.1%

  17. caroman says:

    Since May, 2007 I’ve had an Obama bumper sticker on my car and have felt that I had to drive courteously so not to piss off any prospective voters.  

    Well, as we say in the CPA business when asked by a client why they don’t get the attention they got when they first contacted us, “Then you were a prospective client, now you’re just a client.”

    Let the lane cutting begin again!

  18. JeffcoDemoJeffcoDemo says:

    Has he taken up residence yet?  Put together his team?  It’s only 48 months, I’m guessing plenty of US Representatives will already be planning for 14 next week.

    On a related note, will Coffman’s mediocre win propel him to delusions of the US Senate?

  19. Craig says:

    Oh, well, I guess he’s not here anymore and probably won’t be back.   I have only two things to say to you.

    Revenge is sweet.

    Does the fact that all your pundits lied to you repeatedly over the last three weeks about the state of this race make you think about what else they’ve lied to you about?  Nah, of course not.

  20. An analysis of the polls vs. final results in 2012:

    Fordham University analysis of 2012 polls (via dKos):


    1. PPP (D)

    1. Daily Kos/SEIU/PPP

    3. YouGov

    4. Ipsos/Reuters

    5. Purple Strategies

    6. NBC/WSJ

    6. CBS/NYT

    6. YouGov/Economist

    9. UPI/CVOTER

    10. IBD/TIPP

    11. Angus-Reid

    12. ABC/WP

    13. Pew Research

    13. Hartford Courant/UConn

    15. CNN/ORC

    15. Monmouth/SurveyUSA

    15. Politico/GWU/Battleground

    15. FOX News

    15. Washington Times/JZ Analytics

    15. Newsmax/JZ Analytics

    15. American Research Group

    15. Gravis Marketing

    23. Democracy Corps (D)

    24. Rasmussen

    24. Gallup

    26. NPR

    27. National Journal

    28. AP/GfK

  21. harrydobyharrydoby says:

    Numerous articles are discussing the fact that old white guys are rapidly being replaced in the voter population by, well, not old white guys.

    Welcome To Liberal America

    Republicans have warned of a more liberal Obama over the coming term, an outcome Democrats hope for and consider likely. But the scale of the decisions facing the country will create an intense pressure for compromise, and now on Democratic terms.

    But the 2012 election marked a cultural shift as much as a political one. Ballot measures that had failed for years – allowing the marriage of two men or two women in Maine and Maryland; legalizing marijuana in Washington state and Colorado – were voted into law. The nation’s leading champion of bank regulation, Elizabeth Warren, handily defeated moderate Sen. Scott Brown in Massachusetts, and the nation’s first lesbian senator, Tammy Baldwin, was elected in Wisconsin. Even climate change, which was absent for nearly the entire campaign, came roaring back with Hurricane Sandy and was the subject of endorsements for Obama and harsh attacks on Romney.

    These measures were passed, and Obama reelected, by an American electorate that Republicans had dismissed as a fluke of African-American pride and youth enthusiasm, and which a generation of pundits – Michael Barone, George Will – wrote off as a fantasy.

    Random thoughts:

    Did you see how many of the tax measures passed yesterday?  Guess voters are looking forward to the future with improvements in education and infrastructure, and know that they can afford the investments because the economy is getting better.

    I’d love to see a tally of the Tea Party losses last night.  I saw that Allen West just got kicked out of Congress ;-)

    • parsingreality says:

      While the Party of Old White Men is trying to put a positive spin on things because of additional seats in the house, those gains were only because of the 2010 redistricting.  

      On the local and state levels here in FL, it’s easy to see how the redistricting helped state house and other candidates.  Some Republicans just should not have won based on media presence and pending ethics convictions, but hey, I’m an R and I push the R button.  

      As someone noted above, it’s really hard to redistrict and entire state, and the trendline is Liberal.  Will especially be so with another four years of Obama successes.  

      Which means there are five more elections that will be tough.  But perhaps after the 2020 census, we can gain control of that process.  

  22. harrydobyharrydoby says:

    Another interesting analysis of the near- and long-term impact of Obama’s victory:

    Yes, Obama Won a Mandate

    The stakes in this fight are large: Depending on the terms, they will define the scope of the federal government for at least a generation to come. And, unlike in recent fiscal debates, Obama should have leverage-more, perhaps, than at any time since the earliest days of his presidency. He can hold out in the debate over the sequester and Bush tax cuts, because the default action-doing nothing-is far worse for Republicans than it is for him.

    How this plays out depends a great deal on the Republicans, of course. At least since early 2010, after the bruising fight over health care, Obama has been predicting that the Republicans would not become a responsible governing party until they experienced the consequences of extremism. Now that has happened. Republicans effectively ceded winnable Senate seats by nominating far-right candidates. And they lost a potentially winnable presidential election by nominating a candidate who ran on the Paul Ryan budget and even named Ryan as his running mate.

    Maybe some moderates will react to Tuesday’s GOP debacle by breaking with the Tea Party, and reaching out to Obama. Or maybe they will be too scared of reprisals from the right wing, as they have ever since Obama took office. I have no idea. But, whatever happens over the next four years, Obama’s reelection guarantees that the laws passed during his first term stay on the books. That instantly makes him one of the most accomplished presidents of modern times. Already Obama and his allies have shaped this country in ways that will last for generations-making life more secure, and creating new opportunities, for tens of millions of Americans.

    I believe that after much bluster and bluffing, a deal will be cut on pretty close to Obama’s terms.  But I think he should start big, and negotiate from the top, not start at his bottom line position.

    • As far as I can tell, netiher Boehner nor McConnell are interested in cutting any deals for the rest of the session.

      Republicans (see RR’s post) don’t believe this is any kind of mandate; they think they were left in charge in the House because they did such a great job of leading the past four years.

      Call me cynical, but I wouldn’t be surprised if we wound up in another “it’d be a shame to see your country damaged like that” Republican hostage-taking situation. Fitch just warned today that it would look to downgrade US debt if we walked off the “fiscal cliff”; Moody’s I think has it right in saying “we’ll wait and see what the final outcome is”. Given the intransigence of the GOP right now, starting the walk to the cliff is the Democratic Party’s best hope of actually getting real negotiations; let Republicans negotiate tax deals and budgetary compromises once we’ve already stepped over the cliff, and we’ll get real compromise instead of dross.

      • AristotleAristotle says:

        “Republicans (see RR’s post) don’t believe this is any kind of mandate; they think they were left in charge in the House because they did such a great job of leading the past four years.”

        I can see the base eating that up, but I think (or like to think) that the leaders themselves will be a bit more pragmatic.

      • harrydobyharrydoby says:

        The election is hardly over, so naturally there will be the usual chest-beating by the GOP.  Reality, even for the most reality-challenged, will set in.

        Obama will have a much stronger hand in this lame duck session.  If the GOP walks us over the edge of the cliff, the public will not forget who is responsible, and the GOP will pay the ultimate price.

        We need to hold to the $250k line.  If it moves up, then we better get something important in return (e.g. no more Kabuki Theater debt ceiling votes)

        • Reality has had a very long time to set in for the Republican Party. It hasn’t set in so far.

          And as far as the fiscal cliff goes… it’s Obama and Democrats who benefit from actually going off the cliff; Republicans hold the upper hand so long as they think that Democrats aren’t willing to flirt with the cliff. The fact is, the “cliff” on its own isn’t bad – failing to correct course immediately after the sequestration and end of tax cuts is what will hurt. Voters can easily be misled by Republicans over just who’s responsible for what in that situation.

          I think y’all are being far, far too optimistic here.

          • harrydobyharrydoby says:

            Exactly why I’m optimistic… With Moody’s et al already saying that jumping off the cliff will again hurt our credit rating, Obama will call the GOP’s bluff, let the GOP take the blame, and then work a deal in January with the new Congress to get an even better deal (e.g. more infrastructure, green energy and R&D spending).

            The GOP will be faced with two choices — pay me now or pay me later.

            Recall, the exit polls indicated that voters (40% at least) still blame Bush, and the GOP Congress for our current slow pace of recovery.

        • JeffcoDemoJeffcoDemo says:

          I’ve always thought $250k was a pretty high bar.  Are we afraid that someone making $150k who has to pay a couple grand more in taxes will suddenly feel pinched?  

          I can’t see their standard of living suddenly taking a nosedive because they have to pay 13% of their gross income instead of 11% of their gross income.

          $150k is about the start point for the top ten percent.  That group from 150-250 is a lot larger than the group of 250+.

          Let’s get serious about about our debt. Let’s bring more Amercians into the game and let all of those who can contribute to cutting our debt down join in.

          Ask not what size TV you can buy for your second rec room, ask what you can do for our children and their children!

          • At $150k you can still be a lavish spender helping the local economy. It’s a bit harder to go through that next $100k…

            Eventually we have to address the debt more seriously, but perhaps not for another year or two while the economy continues its slow recovery. Clinton-era taxes weren’t burdensome on the economy, and it wouldn’t hurt to think that eventually ALL of us have to pitch in for the last decade of self-indulgence when it comes to ultra-low tax rates and unpaid wars. We really need to go further than that even; return capital gains to regular income, limit deductions, and if we’re really serious about reducing the debt, implement some kind of investment transaction fee (e.g. $0.0001 per transaction).

            The truth is, we’ve under-taxed ourselves for too long and ballooned the debt as a result – a situation that falls squarely on Republican shoulders.

  23. Say Hey Kid says:

    In our hearts we knew Joe Miklosi and Sal Pace did not compare to someone like Ed Perlmutter.  Ed had a substantive record in the State Senate while Joe and Sal were do nothings.  

    Both were weak candidates and dropped like an anchor at the end.

    Joe ran behind every Democrat in Arapahoe County.  Even Ethan Feldman had a higher vote percentage.  Sal ran behind most Democratic candidates throughout the 3rd District.

    When voters actually got to know Joe and Sal and see their spotty records they rejected them.

    Democrats need to recognize that quality matters in choosing Congressional candidates.  Two seats lost to the GOP because we nominated weak people.

  24. parsingreality says:

    Several from candidates that I either supported or my name had gone out on the statewide Dem list.  Thanking for support.  OK, that’s nice and might have purpose in two or four years.

    But several others have come in from what I’ll call activist groups I’m subscribed to.  On the lines of “We can’t stop now!”  

    I wanted to keyboard scream “Give it an effin rest for a week!  Are you that out of sync with American voter post-electoral fatigue?”

  25. Barron X says:

    of course, I thought the bailouts only encouraged the Banksters to try even more egregious hi-jinx,

    and the ARRA payola to trans-nationals hurt the little guy.  

    But what would the main consequences of sequestration be ?

    We would have to scale back on unnecessary “defense” spending, and couldn’t start as many unjust, immoral wars.  

    Who gets hurt ?

    the Banksters and Military – Congressional – Industrial – Party Leadership Complex.  

    Who benefits ?

    #1, the people of poor countries worldwide that decline to kowtow before the Banksters.  

  26. parsingreality says:

    Can’t find it, at least with my skills.

    I do know that FL is still up in the air, mostly due to problems in Miami-Dade. Per the Miami Herald just now, they don’t expect results until tomorrow….which is 24 hours after they said they would have results.

    Oh well, better late than 2000.

Leave a Reply

Comment from your Facebook account


You may comment with your Colorado Pols account above (click here to register), or via Facebook below.