Tuesday Open Thread

38
  by: Colorado Pols Tue December 18, 2012 at 4:46 PM MDT

“Pride does not wish to owe and vanity does not wish to pay.”

–Francois de La Rochefoucauld


Full story: Tuesday Open Thread

38 Community Comments, Facebook Comments

  1. JADoddjadodd says:
    Tue December 18, 2012 at 7:00 AM MDT

    The press is reporting that President Obama has made a proposal to the Republicans to fix the “fiscal cliff” which includes cuts to Social Security and Medicare.  Understand this! If you vote in favor of this “compromise,” I am done with you.  This is my line in the sand. I will not vote for you – regardless of the opposition. And, I will actively work to encourage other Democrats to withhold their votes for you.  

  2. Duke Coxdukeco1 says:
    Tue December 18, 2012 at 7:33 AM MDT

    I had read it right. Did a double take..

    This from a story about the fast approaching winter storm by Dale Rodebaugh in the Durango Herald.

    A powerful Pacific storm is expected to bring Southwest Colorado 4 to 8 inches of snow today through Wednesday morning and snot-blowing cold for the rest of the week.

    Way to be “colorful”,  Dale.  

  4. allyncooper says:
    Tue December 18, 2012 at 8:37 AM MDT

    I’ve given  a lot of thought lately to what elementary school children are thinking and feeling about their safety and how the Newtown tragedy is going to affect them long term.

    I remember when I was in elementary school in the late 1950′s and early ’60′s we had to go out in the hall, put our heads against the wall and wrap our arms around our heads and stay there for what seemed like hours ( although now I’m sure it was only for maybe 10 minutes).

    All this was a cold war drill to protect us from thermo nuclear bombing from the godless communists of the Evil Empire, the Soviet Union. A scenario that became very real in 1962 with the Cuban missile crisis and I remember being pretty scared about what might happen.

    Thankfully our children don’t have to worry about thermo nuclear war anymore. The nations that stared into the abyss of the unthinkable in 1962 learned from it, and a process of disengagement was inititated with test ban treaties and then strategic arms limitation treaties.  But our children have new worries.  And the evil they face is much more of a reality than the fear I felt when I was a child.

    As Newtown buries it’s children from this unthinkable tragedy, what must we all do to make our children feel safe? The fact is as a society we failed them, and we must make our amends to them by doing everything within our power to prevent another Newtown.

    Children, teach your parents well.

    CSNY

  5. Gray in Mountains says:
    Tue December 18, 2012 at 9:39 AM MDT

    background checks in CO at record high since Sandy Hook massacre

  6. Gray in Mountains says:
    Tue December 18, 2012 at 9:53 AM MDT

    they MUST be mandatory and not left to discretion of local elected officials.

    Last Friday, apparently unaware of Sandy Hook, a gnut in IN, a 60 y/o with 47 guns, threatened his wife and then threatened to take some of his arsenal through the woods on trails to a local school and kill as many as he could. The local sherrif decide he was just mad. Dude should have been charged and likely should have been placed in inpatient screening. His arsenal should have been confiscated until the completion of legal proceedings. It would be cool if they were “accidentally” welded together while being held

    In CO the gun nuts successfully have required that the names of holders of CCW be held private. I think they should be published so that one can report when his neighbor is losing it.

    In CO a city or county can not prohibit carrying weapons into their buildings by the public unless they have metal detectors, way past feasible for small communities

  7. harrydobyharrydoby says:
    Tue December 18, 2012 at 9:57 AM MDT

    This article is food for thought, whether you are male or female:

    http://www.slate.com/articles/…

  8. Gray in Mountains says:
    Tue December 18, 2012 at 8:28 PM MDT

    a page from Frank Luntz. We’ve been calling them by the sterile, non-judgemental term of “high capacity magazines”, but I think I prefer mass murder magazines

  9. Diogenesdemar says:
    Tue December 18, 2012 at 9:29 PM MDT

    is upon us . . .

    The NRA finally gets around to acknowledging that Newtown did happen.

    NRA STATEMENT

    12/18/2012

    The National Rifle Association of America is made up of four million moms and dads, sons and daughters – and we were shocked, saddened and heartbroken by the news of the horrific and senseless murders in Newtown.

    Out of respect for the families, and as a matter of common decency, we have given time for mourning, prayer and a full investigation of the facts before commenting.

    The NRA is prepared to offer meaningful contributions to help make sure this never happens again.

    The NRA is planning to hold a major news conference in the Washington, DC area on Friday, December 21.

    Details will be released to the media at the appropriate time.

    http://home.nra.org/#

    Call me a cynic, but if on the 21st the NRA actually does anything that truly amounts to “common decency,” you’ll know the world has ended.

  10. Diogenesdemar says:
    Tue December 18, 2012 at 7:58 AM MDT

    Are you going to view any adjustments as a “cut”?  

    The “fiscal cliff” is a much of a made for TV event, as the Mayan Apocalypse.  It’s hype, and fabrication, and the latest bit of Blitzer breathlessness. In short, meh

    The real issue is one of fixing America’s unsustainable structural budget problems. It’s no cliff, more of a black hole — and we’re continuing our long slide toward that event horizon.  The fix is going to require adjustments on both sides of the ledger, revenue and spending.  There’s going to be pain enough to go around, and it should be spread evenly and proportionately.

    No line in the sand is going to stop this slide, and if both sides draw their lines as had been the practice, then you can bet we’ll be beyond the event horizon soon. I for one don’t want to see us become a science fiction test case — we should do what we know really needs to be done to preserve this universe.  

  11. DavidThi808DavidThi808 says:
    Tue December 18, 2012 at 8:03 AM MDT

    And Mark Udall is relived that you are giving him a pass :)

    Politics is compromise. If Obama comes up with a reasonable compromise, and it looks like for the 2nd time in these negotiations he will, then we suck it up and live with it. And we take it as a very good sign that the Republicans are learning to compromise once again.

  12. Albert J. Nock says:
    Tue December 18, 2012 at 9:10 AM MDT

    Hi Jadodd,

    Who is Frederic Bastiat and what would he say about Social Security and Medicare?

  13. ProgressiveCowgirlProgressiveCowgirl says:
    Tue December 18, 2012 at 2:22 PM MDT

    You really think that absolutely no adjustments should be made for a program which was designed to support seniors at a time when most lived for only a few years beyond retirement, now that life expectancy offers most people decades of life after their retirement?

    As Diog mentioned, we’ve seen in the Republican party what happens when “no compromise” wins once, then morphs rapidly into “no progress.”

  14. DavidThi808DavidThi808 says:
    Tue December 18, 2012 at 8:03 AM MDT

    It’s just now it’s making the top of the fold.

  16. PitaPita says:
    Tue December 18, 2012 at 8:47 AM MDT

    Did you see where he is retiring from his UN position at the end of the year.  He sent out a great letter to former staffers and one shared it with me.  He said he will continue to fight the good fight on global warming and other vital issues.  

    Maybe we could get him involved in lobbying for

    banning of assault weapons, etc.

  18. JADoddjadodd says:
    Tue December 18, 2012 at 8:36 AM MDT

    The use of the chained CPI is not an adjustment it is a cut. The Department of Labor conducts a CPI index for seniors which, at the present time, is not used for anything other than information. This index demonstrates that the cost of living increase for seniors is actually higher than the “regular” CPI that is used now.

    I am reminded about the story of the frog. Put a frog in a pot of boiling water and he will jump out. Put a frog in a pot of cool water and apply heat and the frog will sit there until he boils to death. Obama wants us to just sit there while he applies the heat.

  19. BlueCat says:
    Tue December 18, 2012 at 8:47 AM MDT

    We should certainly make our  agreement or disagreement clear to our elected reps and President but forcing compliance with  absolute pledges is what made the GOP what it is today.

    Best to focus on the next big thing in terms of desperate GOP rear guard action: An organized push to call for proportional electoral college vote allocation in all presidential blue leaning states with red majority legislatures based on congressional districts.  This would cut sharply into Dem presidential majorities in many states.

    Why bother with the angering their base with a time consuming effort to reach out to women and minorities when they can instantly get more electoral college votes in the next election through all those red state legislatures?  

  20. Diogenesdemar says:
    Tue December 18, 2012 at 5:34 PM MDT

    for either, exactly . . .

    just reminding that any good solution is going to have to involve, at least temporarily, comprehensive revenue and spending adjustments from what we’ve learned to expect.

    That, and, that about the only thing lines in the sand are really any good for is a game of beach volleyball.

  23. Phoenix RisingPhoenix Rising says:
    Tue December 18, 2012 at 2:48 PM MDT

    I think that the program (SSI) was designed to support seniors so that we didn’t wind up with a national crisis of people who couldn’t support themselves at a basic level.

    And I think that we do those seniors and ourselves a great injustice if we overly restrict what we’re paying them. The system was designed as a failsafe – don’t fuck it up.

    If it needs tinkering, tinker on the revenue side.

  24. Diogenesdemar says:
    Tue December 18, 2012 at 5:15 PM MDT

    You mean, pish posh . . . ?

    or, Peter Tosh  . . . ?

    or,  maybe, Phish toss . . . ?

  25. ProgressiveCowgirlProgressiveCowgirl says:
    Tue December 18, 2012 at 4:31 PM MDT

    Then let’s tinker in a way that supports that mission.

    My grandparents, who have earned and saved and invested every dollar they would need if they both lived to be 120, are wonderful people deserving of all the wonderful things in life, but they are not in need of Social Security to provide for their basic needs. They aren’t “rich,” but they own two paid-for homes (both bought cheaply decades ago) and have enough left over after living expenses to be generous with their local charities and with family, as well as to travel at times when it’s convenient for them to do so and their health allows.

    Social Security is, as you said, a safety net program to prevent a crisis in which the elderly cannot provide for their basic needs. My mom described it to me when I was about four as “keeping old ladies from having to live on cat food.” That stuck with me. It is not a cash reward for reaching a certain age, nor is it a savings account. It needs less tinkering by far than the R side would have you believe (it’ll be a good 25 years before it’s no longer FULLY solvent and even then economists anticipate that the buying power of recipients will actually INCREASE despite the reduced percentage payout) but it does need some tinkering to ensure it is continuing to address its mission.

    I prefer that said tinkering be laser-focused on ensuring that seniors in need have everything they need, rather than on ensuring that no person currently entitled to Social Security sees reduced payments, including very well-to-do seniors.

  26. ProgressiveCowgirlProgressiveCowgirl says:
    Tue December 18, 2012 at 4:33 PM MDT

    Not a fan of all the “I totally relate to a dead person who can’t speak up to say ‘No that’s not how I feel!’” coverage of this tragedy. Nobody will know what Nancy Lanza felt now unless something is uncovered describing it in her own words.

    Comparing one’s own neuroses and/or parenting challenges to those of a dead woman smacks of sensationalism and exploitation to me.

  27. Phoenix RisingPhoenix Rising says:
    Tue December 18, 2012 at 4:53 PM MDT

    He suggests that this compromise is a red line for him – and it is for me, too.

    Chained CPI will hurt the people who depend on Social Security.

    If you want to means-test SSI, I’m open to discussion; I’d rather raise the tax cap, but the other way isn’t anathema for me. Chained CPI is the beginning of obsoleting SSI as an ineffective program.

  31. Diogenesdemar says:
    Tue December 18, 2012 at 9:20 PM MDT

    about people in glass houses, and stones?  Or mirrors, and seven years of bad luck?  Maybe you’re right, MADCO — walking on broken glass with bare feet?

  33. harrydobyharrydoby says:
    Tue December 18, 2012 at 10:12 PM MDT

    There’s none so blind as those who will not see.

  35. Phoenix RisingPhoenix Rising says:
    Tue December 18, 2012 at 10:39 PM MDT

    … expecting them to come forward with an offer to train teachers around the nation to carry firearms to bring to school where potentially troubled kids might figure out how to get access to them.

  36. parsingreality says:
    Wed December 19, 2012 at 10:22 PM MDT

    ….”Dozens of gun manufacturers, importers, and dealers who make a lot of money on guns that were banned under the Assault weapon, um, ban.”

  37. ProgressiveCowgirlProgressiveCowgirl says:
    Wed December 19, 2012 at 1:10 PM MDT

    But I don’t appreciate the implication.

    Why do you feel it’s okay for people who never met a murder victim to claim they know what that murder victim felt and experienced during her life?

  38. harrydobyharrydoby says:
    Thu December 20, 2012 at 9:37 AM MDT

    Despite the title “Why did Nancy Lanza love guns?”, the article didn’t actually answer its own question.

    Rather the author answered the question for herself, writing purely from her own perspective, comparing her thoughts, feelings and experiences with what she was able to discern from public reports about Nancy Lanza.  At no time did she (or I) put words in the mouth of Ms. Lanza.

    Perhaps my reply was a bit terse.  I probably did owe you a fuller response, for which I do apologize.  But it seemed to me you were responding to a completely different article — “I am Adam Lanza’s Mother” which does precisely what you claim, and which I am not defending.

    What I found interesting about the article was that it reinforced my position on why carrying a gun is for 99% of us, not a necessary or sensible choice.  

    I’m glad you were at least intrigued enough to follow the link, but disappointed that you apparently misread or ignored the author’s essential point, as evidenced by your misdirected response.

    My purpose, as always, is to present my point of view in hopes of enlightening and persuading others to agree, or provoke others to disagree with reasoned arguments.

    It’s one of the privileges of being a crotchety old man ;-)

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