Open Line Friday!

“What is abundantly clear now is that our government, federal and state, no longer exists for the people. The reality now is the people exist for the government. Whether you like it that way or not is not the point. The point is the Rubicon has now been crossed. We all work in service to the government at all levels. That’s how government sees it. That’s how the president sees it; that’s how senators see it. That’s how state legislators see it and governors see it.”

–Rush Limbaugh, yesterday


Full story: Open Line Friday!

43 Community Comments, Facebook Comments

  1. GalapagoLarryGalapagoLarry says:

    Looks like the sun is going to come up after all. And it’s a glorious morning in Denver Town.

  2. Albert J. Nock says:

    So how come Rush gets paid millions to merely state the obvious?

    A Statist reality Rush and none of the other windbags have done anything to stop. Heck, maybe even hastened.

  3. DaftPunkDaftPunk says:

    Before Congress reconvenes, before we engage in any lengthy debate over legislation, regulation or anything else, as soon as our kids return to school after the holiday break, we need to have every single school in America immediately deploy a protection program proven to work – and by that I mean armed security.

    nra.org

  4. Gray in Mountains says:

    have always been regardless of NRA. Take a few billion from defense budget or just create a line within deffense budget called “National Security-partial response to domestic massacres”. LaPierre wants us to ignore the killings in parks, malls, churches, museums, etc.

    Zero mention of mass murder magazines.

    While he did address the issue of media errors re “machine guns”, the only important contribution of his soliloquy, he did not talk about assault weapons.

    LaPierre wants a national database of the mentally ill. I want a national database of gunowners and local publication of those with CCW. And ban of mass murder magazines.

    VP Biden is the right guy to move this forward, not Asa Huthinson. The last couple of days I’ve seen a replay of a memorable moment from the ’07 Dem pres candidate debates when Anderson Cooper took a video question from a freak who asked Biden how he would protect his “baby” and then held up an assault weapon. Biden, well known for speaking more bluntly than most, replied to the effect “if that is your baby you are mentally unstable”

  5. Gray in Mountains says:

    otherwise known as the NRA. $10 annual dues. The purpose of the NRA will be to discuss refrigeration and guns. Perhaps Larry or Dio could be the Executive Director.

  6. VanDammerVanDammer says:

    4 dead, 3 troopers hurt in shooting

    GEESEYTOWN — Four people are dead — including the shooter — and three state troopers were injured this morning in a shooting incident in Frankstown Township, Blair County District Attorney Richard Consiglio said.

    The gunman and two other men and a woman are all dead, Consiglio said.

    The gunman is Jeffrey Lee Michael, 26, of Hollidaysburg, sources tell the Mirror.

    The woman was killed at the Juniata Valley Gospel Church, a nondenominational church outside of Geeseytown on Juniata Valley Road, authorities said. A confrontation occurred outside the church with a second person shot and killed.

    The gunman then drove off in his pickup truck and crashed head-on into another vehicle, sources said. He then shot and killed the other driver.

    Troopers killed the suspect after they were fired upon on Juniata Valley Road. They responded to calls of an armed person involved in other shootings in the same area, state police spokeswoman Marla Finn said.

    Yeah, more guns is the answer … ?  

  7. GalapagoLarryGalapagoLarry says:

    As long as you and your nut case buddies keep denying the reality of America’s historical socialist/capitalist economic partnership, you’re doomed.

    Doooomed.

    Doooooooooooooooomed, I say.

    Keep it up. This old socialist is cheering you on.

    Did I mention, doooooooooooooooooooooooomed!

  8. Diogenesdemar says:

    Time for you (and that mewling, bloviating fat ass) to get to work.  That is all.  

  9. Duke Coxdukeco1 says:

    a story somewhere…(I lost the link, looking for it…) about a 7yr. old who is shot to death this morning as he sat in his carseat. His father accidentally shot him while putting away a gun he had unsuccessfully tried to sell.

    Nothing else to say, really.  

  10. VanDammerVanDammer says:

    that was their big, foreshadowed answer to 20 first graders and 6 adults slain at the hands of a 20 yr old insanely-armed murderer?

    Armed security does NOT work.  Armed security DOES NOT WORK.  

    On December 9, 2007, a gunman opened fire in the New Life Church, striking four people and killing two, sisters Rachel and Stephanie Works. Jeanne Assam, a church security volunteer, shot and wounded the gunman who then killed himself.

    Armed security and STILL 2 people DEAD.

    Nidal Malik Hasan, a U.S. Army Major serving as a psychiatrist stationed at Fort Hood, killed 13 people and wounded 29 others.  This on the most populous U.S. military installation in the world.

    An investigator later testified that 146 spent shell casings were recovered inside the building.  Another 68 casings were collected outside, for a total of 214 rounds fired by the attacker and responding police officers.  A medic who treated Hasan said his pockets were full of pistol magazines.  When the shooting ended, he was still carrying 177 rounds of unfired ammunition in his pockets, contained in both 20- and 30-round magazines.  The incident, which lasted about 10 minutes, resulted in 29 people wounded, and 13 killed-12 soldiers and one civilian; 11 died at the scene, and two died later in a hospital.

    According to pretrial testimony, Hasan entered a Guns Galore store in Killeen on July 31, 2009, and purchased a FN Five-seven semi-automatic pistol that was used in the attack at Fort Hood.  Hasan entered the store and abruptly asked for “the most technologically advanced weapon on the market and the one with the highest standard magazine capacity.”

    Armed security on the fuckin’ largest US armed military base in the world and STILL 13 people DEAD and 29 WOUNDED.

  11. VanDammerVanDammer says:


    - December 11, 2012. On Tuesday, 22-year-old Jacob Tyler Roberts killed 2 people and himself with a stolen rifle in Clackamas Town Center, Oregon. His motive is unknown.

    - September 27, 2012. Five were shot to death by 36-year-old Andrew Engeldinger at Accent Signage Systems in Minneapolis, MN. Three others were wounded. Engeldinger went on a rampage after losing his job, ultimately killing himself.

    - August 5, 2012. Six Sikh temple members were killed when 40-year-old US Army veteran Wade Michael Page opened fire in a gurdwara in Oak Creek, Wisconsin. Four others were injured, and Page killed himself.

    - July 20, 2012. During the midnight premiere of The Dark Knight Rises in Aurora, CO, 24-year-old James Holmes killed 12 people and wounded 58. Holmes was arrested outside the theater.

    - May 29, 2012. Ian Stawicki opened fire on Cafe Racer Espresso in Seattle, WA, killing 5 and himself after a citywide manhunt.

    - April 6, 2012. Jake England, 19, and Alvin Watts, 32, shot 5 black men in Tulsa, Oklahoma, in racially motivated shooting spree. Three died.

    - April 2, 2012. A former student, 43-year-old One L. Goh killed 7 people at Oikos University, a Korean Christian college in Oakland, CA. The shooting was the sixth-deadliest school massacre in the US and the deadliest attack on a school since the 2007 Virginia Tech massacre.

  12. VanDammerVanDammer says:


    - February 27, 2012. Three students were killed by Thomas “TJ” Lane, another student, in a rampage at Chardon High School in Chardon, OH. Three others were injured.

    - October 14, 2011. Eight people died in a shooting at Salon Meritage hair salon in Seal Beach, CA. The gunman, 41-year-old Scott Evans Dekraai, killed six women and two men dead, while just one woman survived. It was Orange County’s deadliest mass killing.

    - September 6, 2011. Eduardo Sencion, 32, entered an IHOP restaurant in Carson City, NV and shot 12 people. Five died, including three National Guard members.

    - January 8, 2011. Former Rep. Gabby Giffords (D-AZ) was shot in the head when 22-year-old Jared Loughner opened fire on an event she was holding at a Safeway market in Tucson, AZ. Six people died, including Arizona District Court Chief Judge John Roll, one of Giffords’ staffers, and a 9-year-old girl. 19 total were shot. Loughner has been sentenced to seven life terms plus 140 years, without parole.

    - August 3, 2010. Omar S. Thornton, 34, gunned down Hartford Beer Distributor in Manchester, CT after getting caught stealing beer. Nine were killed, including Thornton, and two were injured.

    - April 3, 2009. Jiverly Wong, 41, opened fire at an immigration center in Binghamton, New York before committing suicide. He killed 13 people and wounded 4.

    - March 29, 2009. Eight people died in a shooting at the Pinelake Health and Rehab nursing home in Carthage, NC. The gunman, 45-year-old Robert Stewart, was targeting his estranged wife who worked at the home and survived. Stewart was sentenced to life in prison.

  13. VanDammerVanDammer says:

    - February 14, 2008. Steven Kazmierczak, 27, opened fire in a lecture hall at Northern Illinois University, killing 6 and wounding 21. The gunman shot and killed himself before police arrived. It was the fifth-deadliest university shooting in US history.

    - February 7, 2008. Six people died and two were injured in a shooting spree at the City Hall in Kirkwood, Missouri. The gunman, Charles Lee Thornton, opened fire during a public meeting after being denied construction contracts he believed he deserved. Thornton was killed by police.

    - December 5, 2007. A 19-year-old boy, Robert Hawkins, shot up a department store in the Westroads Mall in Omaha, NE. Hawkins killed 9 people and wounded 4 before killing himself. The semi-automatic rifle he used was stolen from his stepfather’s house.

    - April 16, 2007. Virginia Tech became the site of the deadliest school shooting in US history when a student, Seung-Hui Choi, gunned down 56 people. Thirty-two people died in the massacre.

  14. VanDammerVanDammer says:

    - March 21, 2005. Teenager Jeffrey Weise killed his grandfather and his grandfather’s girlfriend before opening fire on Red Lake Senior High School, killing 9 people on campus and injuring 5. Weise killed himself.

    - March 12, 2005. A Living Church of God meeting was gunned down by 44-year-old church member Terry Michael Ratzmann at a Sheraton hotel in Brookfield, WI. Ratzmann was thought to have had religious motivations, and killed himself after executing the pastor, the pastor’s 16-year-old son, and 7 others. Four were wounded.

    - July 8, 2003. Doug Williams, a Lockheed Martin employee, shot up his plant in Meridian, MS in a racially-motivated rampage. He shot 14 people, most of them African American, and killed 7 before killing himself.

    - December 26, 2000. Edgewater Technology employee Michael “Mucko” McDermott shot and killed seven of his coworkers at the office in Wakefield, MA. McDermott claimed he had “traveled back in time and killed Hitler and the last 6 Nazis.” He was sentenced to 7 consecutive life sentences.

    - September 15, 1999. Larry Gene Ashbrook opened fire on a Christian rock concert and teen prayer rally at Wedgewood Baptist Church in Fort Worth, TX. He killed 7 people and wounded 7 others, almost all teenagers. Ashbrook committed suicide.

    - July 29, 1999. Mark Orrin Barton, 44, murdered his wife and two children with a hammer before shooting up two Atlanta day trading firms. Barton, a day trader, was believed to be motivated by huge monetary losses. He killed 12 including his family and injured 13 before killing himself.

    - April 20, 1999. In the deadliest high school shooting in US history, teenagers Eric Harris and Dylan Kiebold shot up Columbine High School in Littleton, CO. They killed 13 people and wounded 21 others. They killed themselves after the massacre.

    Following NRA’s fucked up response & logic then we should have armed guards at IHOPs, hair salons, coffee shops, shopping malls, schools, universities, securities trading firms, Sikh temples, fundamentalist churches, … everywhere.  

    (this puts me over my quota on characters for the rest of 2012 and likely into 2013 — see ya)  

  15. harrydobyharrydoby says:

    How about, 1 down, 7 more to go:

    Every day eight kids under 20-years-old die from gun violence in America. That’s 56 kids a week, 340 kids a month and over 3,000 kids every year. In fact you could fill Fenway Park three times over with the 110,000 children killed by guns in the U.S. over the past 30 years!

    This is obscene beyond words.  And of course, the NRA wants more guns to solve this crisis.

  16. GalapagoLarryGalapagoLarry says:

    for what passes as protest by right wing “victims”.

  17. Duke Coxdukeco1 says:

    what I meant was…the horror speaks for itself.

    LaPierre is a criminal…who makes a million dollars a year to perpetuate the horror.

  18. Duke Coxdukeco1 says:

    I love my refrigerator…it’s my baby. That’s where I keep the cabbage. :)

  19. GalapagoLarryGalapagoLarry says:

    they pry it out of my undependable temperature dead hands!

  20. Diogenesdemar says:

    I could really use the bump in salary, . . .

    and, besides we all know that there’s a couple of obvious solutions to this country’s refrigerator crime problem:

    1.  Allow every citizen to openly carry their refrigerators with them,

    and,

    2. More refrigerators.  I’m thinking maybe one in every room of one’s home and workplace.  Vigilance . . .

    Remember people, it’s the position of the NRA that refrigerators don’t kill people, . . . that’s all the fault of video games, and the media.

    (I’m also thinking about cooperating with that other NRA — as far as I can see, the very best place to keep your “heaters” would be one of our “coolers” . . .)

  21. Gray in Mountains says:

    as well as openness to cabbage recipes. Its not just for coleslaw anymore!

  22. Gray in Mountains says:

    your refrigerator, if it opened right to left or left to right, if the freezer were on the side, the bottom or the top. Members must be open to differences in refrigerators.  

  23. Gray in Mountains says:

    a Boulder/Nederland solution for Denver

  24. ProgressiveCowgirlProgressiveCowgirl says:

    AKA a “please rob these people” list? I think that’s a bit much…

  25. Gray in Mountains says:

    is going gnuts and you know he has a penis and a CCW, it might be wise to call local law enforcement

  26. Gray in Mountains says:

    public work, public document

  27. VanDammerVanDammer says:

    top stolen home items are cash, jewelry, expensive portable home appliances and entertainment gear — guns are gonna be found if they’re accessible.  CCW list ain’t gonna make the 35% of US households that own a gun anymore susceptible.

    Thieves look for easy targets.  Do you really think that if a thief knows that a home owner has a CCW then that makes the house a good target.  

    Fuxsake, sound it out Conceal Carry Weapon permit.  That means the gun owner is pretty likely to be CARRYING the gun (’cause those kinda folks don’t go anywhere without their Precious).  Besides, rule #1 for a thief is to find an easy target.  Is an armed gun-stroking ass, someone paranoid enough to get a CCW sound like an easy target?

    If anything, a published CCW list would make unarmed citizens the easy targets. So it would be thanks to these fuckheaded paranoic CCW assmoles, the rest of us would be put at even more risk.  

  28. ProgressiveCowgirlProgressiveCowgirl says:

    On the other hand, cars and drunks kill an awful lot of people and we don’t publicize individuals’ vehicle registration information so that you can look up that license plate of the driver swerving all over the road yourself. I would be inclined to think if you know your neighbor is going nuts, a discreet call is a good idea whether or not you know he has CCW. I was once trapped in a garage while canvassing by a crazy man who I’m pretty sure is NOT a gun owner, but who turns out to be a disgruntled former Rocky Flats employee and a scientist perfectly capable of making a pretty damn serious bomb in his basement. (Yes, local PD knows and keeps an eye on him.)

  29. parsingreality says:

    CC permits are issued by the Department of Agriculture, the good folks looking after your best interests in phone solicitor blocking for $$ per year, gasoline weights and measures, etc.

    Because they are not a law enforcement agency, they are unable to access FBI and other federal agency databases while determining an applicant’s approval.

    Yet another hole in the wall of trying to stop the crazies from killing you or me.

    Welcome to Florida.

  30. ajb says:

    Sorry, but I don’t think the analogy works.

    I don’t believe in anonymous free speech.

    I don’t believe in concealed carry.

  31. AristotleAristotle says:

    Because they aren’t designed to kill.

    Please, don’t compare guns to anything other than tools designed for killing or maiming humans. When other things kill people, they are being used incorrectly.

    (Also, specifically regarding cars, there are MILLIONS of incident-free car trips taken every DAY, meaning that the percentage of fatal trips out of all car trips is infinitesimally small. I bet the ratio of woundings and killings to the number of times a gun is drawn in this country is much higher. That’s just a hunch.)

  32. ProgressiveCowgirlProgressiveCowgirl says:

    I’ll look it up later — if I’m incorrect then you’re right, but firearms instructors tend to advise not telling anyone you’re a gun owner who isn’t already a legal gun owner, because this increases the risk of your gun being stolen and used in the commission of a crime.

  33. ProgressiveCowgirlProgressiveCowgirl says:

    To post your comment decrying anonymous free speech.

  34. Gray in Mountains says:

    I give you our team!

  35. Willard Smitten says:

    becasue once they take away ourfridges tyranny is all but certain.  

  36. Gray in Mountains says:

    call Rick Scott. That is just gnuts

  37. GalapagoLarryGalapagoLarry says:

    for when you’re plugged. (no pun, period)

  38. Duke Coxdukeco1 says:

    then they will come for our foot massagers..

    We can’t let this happen…

  39. ProgressiveCowgirlProgressiveCowgirl says:

    In 2011, there were 31,347 total firearms deaths (including suicides).

    I looked up some numbers on rounds fired per trip to the firing range, and got an average of 250 rounds per person (based on anecdotal statements from sport shooters on a forum), and found another report stating that there are around 3,100 operational firing ranges in the United States. Assume a range services ~80 customers per day (10 per hour — probably low) and you get 22,630,000,000 rounds fired annually just at sport shooting ranges — doesn’t include rounds fired for hunting or people shooting cans in an open space area. 13.7 million people went hunting in the US in the last hunting season, but I found no way to estimate the rounds they fired. There are ~100 fatal hunting accidents annually in the US and Canada.

    In 2011, there were 34,485 US traffic accident deaths. There were just under 3,000,000,000,000 miles driven in the US. Divide that by 40 (average miles driven per day) and you get 75,000,000,000 daily uses of automobiles.

    So, one death per 721,919 rounds fired (firing ranges only), to one death per 2,174,858 car trips — so there are three times the fatalities per round fired as fatalities per use of vehicle. This would tend to support that guns are more dangerous than cars; however, this is including gun suicides, which are approximately 40% of gun deaths.

    Additionally, I referred specifically to “cars and drunks” — a knowing misuse of automobiles that is nevertheless extremely common and extremely high-risk. Getting behind the wheel while drunk is comparable to drawing a firearm while drunk: Never a good idea and you have a decent chance of ruining a life. We don’t publicize the names and home addresses of alcoholics who also have registered motor vehicles, or of motor vehicle owners who possess large quantities of alcohol.

    Lastly, I strongly disagree that guns are manufactured for the sole purpose of maiming or killing human beings. I’m all for banning the magazines and assault weapons which DO fit that description, but I support ownership of handguns and long guns that are designed for hunting and sport shooting, in addition to home defense. Guns designed for mass murder don’t belong in private hands, but barring access to a reasonable hunting, sport shooting, or home defense weapon for healthy people with no violent criminal history would be going too far.  

  40. Gray in Mountains says:

    of rounds fired and visits to ranges are likely high, esp in CO where most ranges are in rural areas. When hunters are fine tuning for their upoming hunting excursion they often don’t fire more than 5-6 rounds. I don’t think I’ve ever fired 250 rounds in a visit and I usually take 6-8 guns with me. But, I do agree with the conclusion in your last paragraph  

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