Bill of the Week – Hidden Guns for Everyone!

(Promoted by Colorado Pols)

Wasting no time with their pledge to make every day about guns during the 2014 session, Reps. Wright and Holbert are first up to bat with HB14-1041, a bill for an act:

"CONCERNING ALLOWING A LAW-ABIDING PERSON TO CARRY A CONCEALED HANDGUN WITHOUT A PERMIT, AND, IN CONNECTION THEREWITH, PRESERVING CURRENT LAWS RESTRICTING THE CARRYING OF CONCEALED HANDGUNS ON CERTAIN PROPERTY INCLUDING SCHOOL GROUNDS."

This bill does two things. I'd address them in order of crazy, but I can't honestly decided which is which. 

First, the bill basically says that anyone who would be able to lawfully possess (notice: "Possess", not "purchase") a gun in the State of Colorado automatically has the right to concealed carry without a permit. 

The word possess is key here, especially as the Republicans work to loosen the Universal Background Check restriction put in place in 2013. If the bill limited the provision to people who could legally purchase a gun in Colorado, this would be slightly less insane, but only slightly.

Then you move onto the second section. Now, the title of the bill might lead you to believe that the second section would strengthen the laws in place to keep guns out of schools, but you'd be wrong. 

Section 2 says that any person who is authorized by the first section to carry a concealed weapon may also do so on school grounds. It amends 18-12-105.5 which is titled: "Unlawfully carrying a weapon – unlawful
possession of weapons – school, college, or university grounds." and adds an exemption to the restriction which allows anyone who can possess a gun in a normal circumstance can carry it concealed on school grounds. 

I'm not sure what "current restriction" is being preserved there. 

So now let's all watch while the Democrats screw up the messaging while they kill this obviously horrible bill.

IndyNinja

About IndyNinja

I support People, not Parties. I support Ideas, not Ideologies. I am an independent voter.

59 Community Comments, Facebook Comments

  1. gertie97 says:

    DOA. Wright is piece of work.

     

  2. mamajama55mamajama55 says:

    What is this freaking obsession with having teachers carry concealed weapons? I'm baffled. Anyone who has worked in a classroom knows that it's high-stress work – and that many teachers don't have consistent administration backup on discipline.

    WTF would any sane person want to add concealed guns to this mix?

    • Duke CoxDuke Cox says:

      You have, my dear, provided the answer.

      ~~sane person~~

    • langelomisteriosolangelomisterioso says:

      As a combat veteran of the misguided military misadventure in the sun andfun capitol of southeast Asia I'm always baffled by the gunhumpers apparent belief that seriously maiming or killing another human being is just the easiest,most natural thing on earth to do.Even with the proper training to enable accurate fire there remains the problem of actually harming or killing another person and it's not as easy as the gunhumpers seem to suppose.General S.L. A. Marshall's work on the ratio of fire  disputed but never refuted would seem to bear this out. One hopes this dies aborning in the legislature.

  3. VoyageurVoyageur says:

    This bill is much too weak.   We need a clear right to carry concealed flame throwers!  Guns are ok, but for close in work, you can't beat the flame thrower.  I grant you that the tanks are bulky and hard to conceal, but if nothing else a Hunchback of Notre Dame costume would allow law-abiding citizens to carry this useful deterrent to crime.  Where is Greg Brophy when we need him?

  4. ClubTwitty says:

    I remember once I was reading in class.  Like my own book becaue whatever the teacher was teaching was not what I particularly wanted to be learning.  I did that sort of thing.

    She grabbed the book (from the library) and flung it across the room.  If only she had been carrying, she could have drawn and shot it out of the air… which would have made an even better impression, IMO, as far as setting examples for unruly kids.  

    • mamajama55mamajama55 says:

      I won't get into specific incidents, but teachers are human beings. There have been many times when I've had to count to ten  while thinking, "They are only children. Only children."

      Some schools have lots of fights, too. Usually pushy-shovey with the males, and hold-on-to-the-hair intense with the females. (Most teachers would much rather break up a boy fight). How many people would be tempted to put an end to it by pulling out a gun and firing a one-shot warning? How many ways could that go wrong?

  5. Ralphie says:

    He's my freakin' representative.

  6. doremi says:

    Colorado law (or any state's law, for that matter) is not always written in a straightforward manner.  Current CCW permit holders cannot take their guns into schools because of 18-12-214 (3) which states "a permit issued pursuant to this part 2 does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun onto the real property, or into any improvements erected theron, of a public elementary, middle, junior high, or high school; except that"  It then gives exceptions for guns in locked vehicles, school security officers, and property used by the school district for hunting or other shooting sports. 

    This bill would have the permitless CCW carrier follow that same limitation.

    By the way, the bill sponsors will repeatedly refer to thisbill as "constitutional carry."  This is totally disingenuous as our constitution clearly states that the right to bear arms (Article II, section 13) "shall not be called into question; but nothing herein contained shall be construed to justify the practice of carrying concealed weapons."   THERE IS NOTHING CONSTITUTIONAL about blanket permitless concealed carry.

    Nevertheless, I highly oppose this bill, as should all thinking Coloradoans.  We don't need to join Vermont, Arizona and Alaska in guns everywhere for virtually everyone. 

  7. BlueCat says:

    Most teachers don't want to be armed and have no or little experience with guns. A short training course (paid for by by whom?) would hardly be adequate to turn our teachers into a trained SWAT force even if most teachers had the desire to be part of any such thing.

    The trained pro at Arapahoe was enough to end the incident in 180 seconds and prevent mass casualties. Don't see how a building full of people with guns, teachers, administrators and 18 year old seniors, could have brought the incident to a better, quicker conclusion with less loss of life.

    Yes these measures won't pass. But let's hope Dems don't do as they have done in the past; vote the sensible way on gun measures, then run and hide, looking like they're ashamed of what they've done and don't want to discuss it.  That just leaves the field to to the confident wackos to get out their message unimpeded by Dem push back beyond "please don't hate us because we support sensible gun laws. Look at all the good stuff we do" which reinforces the wacko message that the Dems want to "take away our freedom" and are hiding their true intent.

    Every political consultant who has advised avoiding the subject in those circumstances should never be given the opportunity to work on a Dem staff again. Not unless we want a constant stream of Dem resignations as the only defense against recalls.  When it comes to messaging offense wins over letting the opponent put you on the defensive every time.  Please don't be mad at me for my vote is a weak as losing message.  

    • JBJK16 says:

      We agree!  Liberal cowards will not stand up and speak up for what they claim to believe in because they know most of us do not agree.

      • BlueCat says:

        Wrong. Polls show most do agree on many things Dems call for. They just don't know it because Rs lie about it and political ops tell Dems to avoid subjects made unpopular by R lies. An overwhelming number of us, for instance, support expanded background checks. But Rs call it "taking away our guns"and Dems let them. 

        Also almost all Dems in office, both in our state and in DC are moderates. Liberal Dems in office are extremely few and far between. In fact, all moderates in office are Dems. There are no non-conservative Rs in office any more. Rs like to use moderate to mean hardcore conservative but not totally nuts. That's not what it means. Dems are now the centrist party.  Rs are the far right party. Period.

  8. Progressicat says:

    In fariness to the 'pubs, this bill has nothing to do with the legislation passed last year.  This bill has been up every year since 2010, all but one year with Holbert as a prime sponsor.  I can still remember him cackling with joy in a Capitol elevator back in 2010 on a day when the bill was set to move out of committee.  Does that make it any less wacky?  No.  Just not vindictive.

  9. doremi says:

    BlueCat,

    Thank you for your message.  I agree with you about that the Democrats need to speak strongly in support of what they did.  They should be proud of the bills they passed.  It does them no good to run away from it.  In fact, it hurts them as being principle-less.

    Correction:  The shooter at Arapahoe committed suicide.  He was not killed by the secuity guard.  And I believe it all happened in 80 (not 180 seconds). 

    By the way, there have been NO mass shootings stopped by armed civilians.

  10. ElliotFladenElliotFladen says:

    I AM JUST THE MESSANGER HERE:

    From Rep. Holbert:

    "Elliot, on a side note, your friends over at Coloradopols have HB 14-1041 backwards. It would not change the current prohibition of concealed carry on a public K-12 campus. The bill would PRESERVE that prohibition. Allowing staff and teachers on public K-12 campuses isn't at all addressed or changed in HB 14-1041. That will come in a different bill."

    • BlueCat says:

      On a side note,,. so your friend Holbert says that will come in another bill? 

    • mamajama55mamajama55 says:

      You know me, I gotta link to the original bill 14-1041. So when I read section 2 of the bill, it does seem to me to do exactly what Indyninja said it did; that is, it allows concealed carry in schools, with a couple of caveats:

      1. If the weapon is part of a course or club at school – most schools use fake guns with ROTC, but many also have shooting clubs and competitions, and some have vocational gunsmithing programs, apparently.

      2. the person has to be over 21, and is able to legally possess a handgun in Colorado and USA.

      Someone else who routinely decodes legislative language is welcome to weigh in on this. Ralphie? doremi? Konola?

       

      • Diogenesdemar says:

        In all fairness to Rep. Holbert, you seem to be expecting him to have a clear understanding of every ALEC-authored bill he signs on to sponsor . . . ????

      • IndyNinjaIndyNinja says:

        Thanks. I'm not a lawyer, so I can only read it for what it says. I was worried for a minute taht I misinterpreted it, but I haven't been able to find anyone to explain how it does anything but what I described. 

      • Progressicat says:

        Opinions are worth what you pay for them, but I wouldn't say that the bill allows for concealed carry in schools.  I read the bill thusly:

        Old Law: C.R.S. 18-12-105(1): (1) A person commits a class 6 felony if such person knowingly and unlawfully and without legal authority carries, brings, or has in such person's possession a deadly weapon as defined in section 18-1-901 (3) (e) in or on the real estate and all improvements erected thereon of any public or private elementary, middle, junior high, high, or vocational school or any public or private college, university, or seminary, except for…

        New Law: blah blah at least 21 blah blah same rights and limitations as 18-21-214, which says, (3) A permit issued pursuant to this part 2 does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun onto the real property, or into any improvements erected thereon, of a public elementary, middle, junior high, or high school; except that:  (a) A permittee may have a handgun on the real property of the public school so long as the handgun remains in his or her vehicle and, if the permittee is not in the vehicle, the handgun is in a compartment within the vehicle and the vehicle is locked;

        (b) A permittee who is employed or retained by contract by a school district as a school security officer may carry a concealed handgun onto the real property, or into any improvement erected thereon, of a public elementary, middle, junior high, or high school while the permittee is on duty;

        (c) A permittee may carry a concealed handgun on undeveloped real property owned by a school district that is used for hunting or other shooting sports.

        To me, the bill simply seems to allow the same level of concealed carry related to schools that is alrady allowed, just without a permit.  Which is insane, of course, but the concealed carry in and around schools isn't novel.

        • mamajama55mamajama55 says:

          You're probably correct in that the new law section 2 ( i ) does have the provisions you outlined above. It does make the weapon holder subject to the same "righs and limitations" as existing CC law.

          So, in your reading of the law, the whole purpose of this new 14-1041 legislation which basically duplicates existing legislation 18-12-105.5 and 18-12-214 would be to allow someone without a concealed carry permit (but the person is at least 21 and would be allowed to possess a gun in CO) to have a gun in a  glove compartment in a locked car on school property?

          I'm not sure that makes me feel a whole lot better, having been in several "shelter in place" lockdowns in public schools with an active shooter in the neighborhood. Knowing that there could be guns in cars in the parking lot, owned by people without permits, would not increase the safety of the kids and adults in the building.

          But thanks for your clarification. It is a good thing that this law won't pass.  This whole hoo-ha must be solely for the benefit of people who won't consider going anywhere without a gun in the glove compartment of the car, and don't want to get nabbed for bringing it onto school property during parent conferences.

    • IndyNinjaIndyNinja says:

      If you get the chance to ask, I'd love to hear how he comes about to that conclusion. Because that's not what I read. 

  11. mamajama55mamajama55 says:

    Is  the bill ALEC sponsored? Probably- ALEC has model legislation called the "Campus Personal Protection Act".  But I'm appalled that Rep. Holbert apparently doesn't expect his constituents, including his constituents who read Pols, to read past the first couple of paragraphs in the bill.

    Do our elected representatives now count on little teeny tiny attention spans? If the education system really started effectively teaching critical thinking, would the Rep. Holberts of the world applaud or boo?

    • Duke CoxDuke Cox says:

      It seems to me, mama, the Rep. Holberts of the world get their critical thinking skills from the fundamentalist Christian pulpit. There is no need, nor a tolerance for that matter, for critical examination in that world. There is only the Word…to be accepted without question. Even though that Word is not found in the words of the man they call their savior. Theirs is a false message.

      The trouble is, that sort of faith has been used routinely throughout history by moneychangers, Pharisees, corporatists, investment bankers, charlatans, Baptist ministers, and Republican legislators (from a long, long list of such…) to exploit the powerless. All while blaspheming the Word they claim to represent.

      We must always resist such mendacity. 

Leave a Reply

Comment from your Facebook account


You may comment with your Colorado Pols account above (click here to register), or via Facebook below.