“Maybe a Good Thing That He Had a 100-Round Magazine”

THURSDAY UPDATE: Audio of Tom Sullivan's (father of Aurora shooting victim Alex Sullivan) response to Sen. Bernie Herpin's remarks in testimony now available below.

From every indication that I have, the pictures, and the reports that I've received from the DA, it says that 76 bullets came out of that magazine. [Pols emphasis]

—–

Sen. Bernie Herpin (R).

Sen. Bernie Herpin (R).

Today's "just wow" moment in the Colorado Senate is brought to you by freshman Sen. Bernie Herpin (R-Recall), as reported by FOX 31's Eli Stokols this afternoon:

Republican state Sen. Bernie Herpin raised the ire of an Aurora theater shooting victim’s father when he claimed that it might have been “a good thing” that gunman James Holmes had a 100-round magazine when he opened fire and, ultimately, killed 12 people…

“My understanding is that James Holmes bought his 100-round capacity magazine legally,” said Sen. Irene Aguilar, D-Denver. “So in fact, this law would have stopped James Holmes from purchasing a 100-round magazine.

“I was wondering if you agree with me.”

“Perhaps, James Holmes would not have been able to purchase a 100-round magazine,” Herpin responded.

“As it turned out, that was maybe a good thing that he had a 100-round magazine, because it jammed. If he had four, five, six 15-round magazines, there’s no telling how much damage he could have done until a good guy with a gun showed up.”

Just a couple of points to add, since this horrifyingly tortured logic doesn't really merit anything you'd call "analysis." Herpin was trying to make a point, not wholly inaccurate, that some of the cheaper civilian-grade high capacity drum magazines aren't very reliable. The drum magazine used by the Aurora shooter in fact did jam his assault rifle–after numerous fatal shots. But the idea that anyone would count on product defects to protect the public in an actual shooting is, of course, ludicrous beyond words. Also, we are obliged to note that in the Sandy Hook Elementary shootings, the Colorado-made Magpul high capacity magazines did not jam.

Tom Sullivan, father of Aurora shooting victim Alex Sullivan and who was present for today's hearing, said this afterward:

“The lack of empathy and compassion is shocking,” he said. “Not just to me and my family, but to all of the families who have lost loved ones to gun violence and to all the people of Colorado. But this is what he truly believes.

“And to think this is the person who they brought in to replace John Morse.” [Pols emphasis]

Without a doubt, Herpin delivered a huge political gift to Democrats today, betraying an ignorance and aloofness to suffering that frankly voters wouldn't believe if there wasn't recorded proof it had happened. This is a hit not just on Bernie Herpin, but the entire Republican 2014 "comeback" strategy that revolves around keeping the momentum from last year's recalls at full tilt through November. Cracks in that strategy had already appeared as gun rights supporters failed to pack committee hearings for the repeal bills.

And now, folks? Who will justify this madness?

111 Community Comments, Facebook Comments

  1. Ralphie says:

    Never interfere when your opponent is in the process of self-destructing.

    Not a word.

  2. bullshit!bullshit! says:

    “Thanks for giving us back your seat,” one of them said, alluding to Herpin being up for reelection this fall.

    You'd better fucking believe it. And not just you, Bernie. Not just you.

  3. doremi says:

    We lost a statesman in Morse and gained an official who is heartless and ignorant.

  4. notaskinnycooknotaskinnycook says:

    That is breathtaking! I'm with you, doremi. This what they replaced Senator Morse with?! Unfortunately, I frear that our shock and outrage may not be shared by the radical Republicans in his district. Oh, well, an effort well beyond the district boundaries put him in, perhaps the same can take him out. 

  5. ElliotFladenElliotFladen says:

    The dangers of a liberal echo chamber.  The shooting was stopped by a gun jam.  The gun jam was caused by a large magazine.  Large magazines jam with great frequency. Pointing those three out is hardly a "WTF" gaffe anywhere but here on an echo chamber website. 

    My suggestion is for you guys to read pages other than Mother Jones and DU once in a while.  Might broaden your perspective a bit (and this is coming from a conservative/libertarian who doesn't only read portions of, but also posts to the Colorado Independent). 

    • Andrew Carnegie says:

      Elliot:  This is not just any liberal echo chamber.  Some of the diaries by the editors are just plain stupid cheerleading for the mentally less gifted.  I guess that is to be expected given the general dishonesty of those they are supporting on the issues that matter most. 

      It seems ColoradoPos has employed DeGette as a special advisor on gun issues.  

      The previous anti-gun screed was about legislation that would have allowed teachers to have guns at schools.  Given that the most recent tragedy in Colorado with guns was caused by a person of  "ColoradoPols-type" policital persuasion and was limited in damage by a law enforcement officer with a gun being present at the school, you would think that a rational discussion might have ensued.

      Not at ColoradoPols.  This is a theocracy of left wing failure.

      • Duke CoxDuke Cox says:

        This is a theocracy of left wing failure.

        Which is why it attracts so many morally bankrupt, factually challenged, right wing assholes like you.

        Don't get me wrong. We love having classless buffoons, such as yourself, drop in and give us the opportunity to shine a light on you and your fellow cockroaches.

        I am honored that you hate us so much…we must be doing something right.

        • Andrew Carnegie says:

          Dukie,  There are people on this board I respect.  Not you, but there are some.

          • Duke CoxDuke Cox says:

            What a relief. Respect from you is not something to which I aspire.

            • Andrew Carnegie says:

              Then you are a success.  I bet this is the first time anyone has said that to you.

              • Duke CoxDuke Cox says:

                You lose that bet.

                 

                • Andrew Carnegie says:

                  I was not counting your mother when you were potty trained.

                  • Duke CoxDuke Cox says:

                    Good one. Score one for Andrew.

                    What a clever little troll you are.

                    Doesn't change the facts though, does it? I guess that is the part that continually grinds your grits. Doesn't matter how many jokes or insults you deliver, you still have to get up each morning and be you…and I don't.

                    That, you can't change.

                    You are just another in a long line of right wing dumbasses that have stumbled through here in the several years I have been posting here. You don't even compete in cleverness, intelligence, originality, or, for that matter vituperative predeliction. Keep trying though…I always appreciate the opportunity to swat intellectual mosquitos.

                     

          • Gilpin Guy says:

            Based on the saying that success is earning the respect of intelligent people, I'm pretty happy that heartless Republicans like you don't respect us liberals.

            The real shame here is that Republicans truly believe that they are right to want every lunatic in the country to have as many lethal weapons as they can buy.  What thoroughly heartless bastards they have become.  Fuck them and they "guns are always good" ideological extermism.  May you never lose a loved one to gun violence you prick.

        • dustpuppydustpuppy says:

          All that hate. Woo.. No wonder why Reagan shut down the state mental institutions. He wanted the insane to be the heart of the Republican Party. It's time to reinvest into mental health counseling and just in time too as PPACA has an mental health provision that helps the insured to seek mental help. 

           

          • Andrew Carnegie says:

            I thought Reagan was the President.  He shut down the state mental institutions?  Thanks for the insight.

            • Duke CoxDuke Cox says:

              He was governor of California, you ignorant twerp. Get an education….

            • BlueCat says:

              Wow, AC. Guess we can add Reagan being the Governor of California, the mega state that most often sets trends for the others, to the ever growing list of stuff about which you are astoundingly ignorant. 

              Wonder if you're also ignorant of how many times taxes and the debt limit were raised under Reagan, how big the deficit was and how much higher the tax rates at the top were during what you righties seem to consider the golden era of St Reagan. Despite being well within living memory, it seems as shrouded in fairy dust as the most ancient myths and legends for you and your friends. 

               

            • Miss Jane says:

              http://www.sociology.org/content/vol003.004/thomas.html

              It's a bit complicated, but he seems to have done it as governor and as president. Then, so did other politicians.  In my view, we are all at fault.  We make political footballs out of so many problems, actually addressing the problems gets tossed by the wayside.  

              Having a healthy and generally comfortably employed population is not just a warm and fuzzy aspiration, it is  necessary for our broader interests…like economic prosperity and national security.  When we devolve into name calling and finger pointing we are distracted from figuring out how to best fix these problems.  Some people are benefitting from keeping the squabbles going, and it is not most of the working classes in this country.

              If you work to pay your bills, to buy a home, to send your kids to school, you are in the working classes.  Paris Hilton is not.  And I don't even know if she votes or how she votes.  It doesn't matter.  She will never have to work to buy a villa on the French Riviera.  And that's fine, as long as the other things are kept in place.

              And keep in mind, the school lunch program was begun after WWII because so many young men had to be turned away from enlistment because of physical problems caused by nutritional deficiency.  To meet the needs of the wars in the middle east enlistment requirements were lowered. This isn't progress.

              Hopefully, however, we are learning as a people how modern economies work.  The article above is quite interesting in that regard.  A healthy and educated population makes a strong work force which in turn is good for capital.  And good for Paris Hilton.   

              Even Abraham Lincoln understood that labor comes before capital.  It's in one of his speeches.  Google it if you want.  Capital is like a guy alone in a forest with a pretty gold rock.  Capital and labor have to work together.  The Europeans understand this a bit better than we do, they have a deeper understanding of feudaliam and the struggle against monarchies. 

              One side trying to obliterate the other side isn't going to work.  And as times change, solutions need to change and adapt. But, we are a large and diverse country, it is hard to do that.  This level of sibling bickering isn't helping. Keeping in mind that this is the United States of America, we can do anything bettter, …if we want to.

              Sorry for the ramble.  I have a cold.

      • ClubTwitty says:

        'Mentally less gifted'  Project much?  I trust a I too are not among the ones your respect, and if so please allow me to change that.  Judging from your posts I would have to say you do not excel in analytical thinking.  

    • James DoddJames Dodd says:

      Elliot,  I'm afraid that you are projecting. It is you who is acting as an echo chamber – merely repeating some ill informed crap spouted by an idiot.

      The fact is that one of the downsides of automatic and semiautomatic guns is that they jam or otherwise fail – slide failure, stove piping, magazine failure, etc. All sizes of magazines fail at roughly the same rate given common quality. A truly conscientious gun owner would confirm this. I have never owned an auto feed gun that did not need to be adjusted or a magazine that worked properly right out of the box. 

      The gun jammed not becuase it had a high capacity magazine. It jammed becuase it was in the hands of a crazy person who did not know his weapon or how to operate it.

      Which bings me to my final point. You all state that this is a mental health issue. I agree that mental health is a significant component of the problems created by the proliferation of guns in our society. Therefore, I propose that everyone who owns or wants to purchase a gun be required to take an MMPI or CMPI test. If the test demonstrates a significant personality disorder – say sociopathy or psychotic disorders – that person cannot continue to possess or to purchase any type of firearms. 

      What do you think?

      • Andrew Carnegie says:

        JD, "mental health is a significant component of the problems created by the proliferation of guns in our society".

        Mental health is the issue that needs addressing.  Mental health issues are not created by the proliferation of guns.

        If anyone cares to get real, there are societal issues of the liberty of those that are a threat to themselves or others versus the safety of society at large.  We previoously erred on the side of institutionalization.  Perhaps we are now erring on the side of liberty.  To me, that is where the honest debate should be.

      • ElliotFladenElliotFladen says:

        James,
        My understanding, from talking to my more knowledgeable friends on guns (I don't own – or want to own - a gun, and only have gone shooting once or twice) is that the larger magazines jam more often.  You are saying that is incorrect, but I am not in a position to evaluate your vs. their position on this. 

      • Negev says:

        "All sizes of magazines fail at roughly the same rate given common quality – "

        While this is somewhat true, the key portion is "of common quality." Junk magazines fail equally reguardless of round count. Quality magazines don't. Junk magazines generally come from inferior manufacturers who produce something quality manufacturers don't – ridiculously large capacity magazines. 

        The problem is finding a spring that will compress enough to allow larger round counts into a managable size area while still allowing enough spring strength to push the final round to the top. I think the technical term is spring stack error. 

        It is very easy to get 1, 5, 10, 15 rounds to stack and feed properly, and it was perfected with the M1 .308, which 20 rounds was the max due to this error.

        It is nearly unheard of to see magazines with a capacity less than 20 fail due to magazine malfunction. That does not exempt user error, ammo issues and environmental considerations, however the 15 round mag was perfected decades ago and is very unlikely to fail due to ample room in a compact space and total ammo weight relatively low. 

         

        • Gray in Mountains says:

          both Dodd and Negev are correct. This is why the weapon that I have located for home defense is a revolver

          • Negev says:

            That is a very wise choice, Gray, very wise indeed.

            • Gray in Mountains says:

              holds 6 rounds. clean when I loaded it. Unlikely to fail. if I ever need it it will likely be dark and I'll be firing at someone 40' or less from me, well within my proficiency. I can empty it in 5 seconds. I've practiced, just not in the house. If I need it there will be a real mess left from those .357 rounds, but I'll be around to clean it up

        • So we're saying that Magpul creates crap magazines? (Sorry, had to get the dig in there…)

          Now that I'm past that – the argument that it's a "good thing" his gun finally stopped firing after between 3 and 6 legal magazines worth of ammo is ridiculous. That's between 3 and 6 opportunities that didn't exist for the people in that theater that evening.

    • dustpuppydustpuppy says:

      And who are you in DU? Inquiring minds would love to know.

  6. Negev says:

    But the idea that anyone would count on slow reloads to protect the public in an actual shooting is, of course, ludicrous beyond words. Also, we are obliged to note that in the Sandy Hook Elementary shootings, the Colorado-made Magpul high capacity magazines DID jam.:

    "The rifle did not appear to have malfunctioned when observed by the WDMC van unit, but a CSP-ESU report described the weapon as appearing to have jammed. When tested later, the rifle functioned properly."

    Page 26: http://www.ct.gov/csao/lib/csao/Sandy_Hook_Final_Report.pdf

     

     

    • bullshit!bullshit! says:

      So…it didn't jam then? What unbelievable tools you guys are. You surprise even me.

      • Negev says:

        It jammed. Additional evidence includes a loose round on the floor with a magazine with 14 rounds left in it, and another empty. It suggests the shooter shot a magazine empty, reloaded, and shot 15 shots, and the gun jammed… removing the magazine with the jammed round in the gun, would leave the discarded mag with 14 rounds, and ejecting the jammed round would account for the loose round on the floor. 

        • bullshit!bullshit! says:

          You are speculating, like the good Senator himself. Why do Republicans always pretend their speculation is fact?

          http://articles.courant.com/2012-12-23/news/hc-lanza-gunjam-20121222_1_rifle-school-psychologist-classroom

          Based on initial statements from surviving children and the fact that unfired bullets from Lanza's rifle were found on the ground, detectives suspect that some students were able to run to safety when Lanza stopped firing, probably for a short period of time, the officials said.

          It is possible that Lanza, who reloaded the rifle frequently, mishandled or dropped a magazine and unfired bullets fell to the floor, they said.

          But it also is possible, they said, that the mechanism that fed bullets into the rifle jammed, causing Lanza to remove the magazine and clear the weapon. Unfired bullets could have fallen to the classroom floor during that process as well, law enforcement officials said.

          Why can't you just admit this was a stupid thing to say and move on?

          • ClubTwitty says:

            Is this rethoical? 

            Why do Republicans always pretend their speculation is fact?

            • BlueCat says:

              Just like they insist their slippery slope projections are fact. Therefore "They're taking away our guns" becomes fact. On the other hand, they are allergic to demonstrabl, established fact, apparently considering those to have a liberal bias. It's a Through the Looking Glass world they live in. They have to in order to justify, even to themselves, any element of their failed ideology. But back to guns.

              There are arguments to be made on both sides of the magazine limit question, arguments with which a reasonable person may agree or disagree. The buffoonery of Herpin and his supporters have no place in any intelligent discussion of that question. Perpetrators have no doubt been stopped both when having to reload and when their weapons jam. Next.

          • JeffcoBlueJeffcoBlue says:

            Either way it's the same: when Lanza stopped firing, kids ran to safety and are still alive today. I also read this was a pause to reload, not a jam. We know a pause for reloading saved lives in Tuscon, too. These Republicans are making utter fools of themselves trying to defend Herpin.

            • Negev says:

              Please don't think I am a Republican nor defending Herpin. I find his statement truely distasteful and inappropriate, reguardless of how factually accurate it may be. 

            • Negev says:

              Actually, jams take much more time to remedy and provide a better chance of escape than reloading, as they are unexpected, require evaluation to assess the malfunction, and include typically more steps to clear in relation to an anticipated reload. 

              I also read that the Tuscon shooter was using a 31 round magazine (incredibly large for a pistol) and it jammed to offer pause, not reload:

              Loughner fired all 31 bullets in the magazine and was reloading when a woman in the crowd, already wounded, attempted to grab the gun from him. He finally changed the magazine and tried to fire, but the gun jammed. Meanwhile, two men from the crowd grabbed him and subdued him, officials said.

              http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jan/09/nation/la-na-0110-gabrielle-giffords-20110110

               

               

          • Negev says:

            I admit it. It was a stupid thing to say that the magazine did not jam. Pure speculation on the part of the author. 

            It is also possible that lepricans came in and threw orange stars, green clovers, and unfired 556 rounds on the floor…

            While it is possible, the empy magazine suggests he was shooting the gun dry. The half full mag would indicate, or suggest with strong support, that that magazine was removed prior to empty for a reason. The loose round would suggest an ejection from the chamber (take a half full mag and drop it – drop it 100 times – see how many rounds "fall" out) due to stoppage. The evidence would suggest, all speculation considered, that the gun jammed.

            Now – it could be a dirty chamber – it could be a bad round, it could be failure to feed, failure to eject, stovepipe, double feed, squib load, binding of the bolt – or – magazine failure. 

            The fact that the magazine in the gun was not full suggests that the shooter continued after the malfuntion, and removing the magazine appears to have fixed the problem, again, suggesting, the magazine was the source of failure. 

            You ready to move on?

             

    • It was a reload that allowed bystanders to tackle Rep. Gabby Giffords' shooter. So – not so ludicrous.

  7. Duke CoxDuke Cox says:

    And now, folks? Who will justify this madness?

     Elliot Fladen and Andrew Carnegie…it appears.

  8. bullshit!bullshit! says:

    Holy shit, they're actually trying to defend this. Wow.

    • Robb says:

      It's going to leave a mark, and it's not just the right-wing trollery that knows it. 

      The plan seems to be to accuse a grieving father of manufactured outrage; good luck with that, boys. The smart GOP money will start planning for the next election cycle, this one's toxic beyond repair. 

  9. bullshit!bullshit! says:

    Question: how many shots were fired by Holmes' AR-15 before it jammed? I see Pols' description of "numerous fatal shots." How many? That's an important detail.

    • JeffcoBlueJeffcoBlue says:

      According to Wikipedia (I know, but I'm busy this morning), Holmes fired "about 45 rounds" before his gun jammed.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Aurora_shooting

      That's a lot of bullets before Herpin's precious "jam."

      • ClubTwitty says:

        Good thing he had such a large clip.  Terrible that a political blog is reporting on it along with all the news outlets in the state and most political reporters at the capitol. Its like a damn echo chamber at this site in this state.  Why cannot the sensible awesomeness of the Colo GOP shine through this fog of echo-chamberness?  Here, let's repeat the winning platform, maybe them libruls just did not hear:

        Save the Eggs! Tax the Gays!  Guns in Pre-K!!

      • Negev says:

        How many shots did the Sandy Hook shooter fire?

        • Curmudgeon says:

          Apparently, not enough shots to make you care about 26 dead people. Hell, 20 of them were only children.  I'm sure you could expound on what a real gun expert could have done….

          • Negev says:

            Apparently, when Bullshit askes the same question above, he gets a pass… but I degress…

            If you take the politics and emotion out of this, you see James Holmes, with HUGE 100 round capacity magazine kill 12 people. Then you see Adam Lanza, with TYPICAL, 30 round magazines kill 26. Throw in Seung-Hui Cho the VA Tech shooter, who with RESTRICTED 10 round magazines kills 30. Now, I am not sure how one cannot AT LEAST consider the fact that the highest death count came from the lowest capacity magazine, and the lowest death count came from the highest capacity magazine. 

            It you actually cared about the children you would do something NEW that was not proven, time and time again, over 10 years of Clinton AWB, over the 3 largest recent mass shooting to be a flawed and ineffective manner of prevention. Calling it "common sense" and "reasonable" is an effort to justify you embracing flawed policy due primarily to the party that promotes it. 

            I question whether you would agree with me more if the Republican party came out with these restrictions. 

            You have done nothing whatsoever to save children.  

             

             

  10. Early WormEarly Worm says:

    Question for Herpin (and the trolls): Why is the ban on high capacity magazines bad?  Because a) because law abiding 'Mericans need the high capacity mags to defend themselves, or b) because any restriction on weaponry is a violation of the 2nd amendment?  If the answer is a), don't be an insulting idiot and suggest that it was a good thing that Holmes used one of those high capacity mags, because they jam.  It undermines your argument. If high capacity mags are less reliable than lower capacity, there is no rational reason the gundamentalist need high capacity for defense.  If the answer is b), own up to it. You are against any restriction or regulation of weaponry.  Don't try to find the "bright side" to a mass murder.  It makes you look like an idiot.

  11. exlurker19 says:

    Uh, hey, El and AC and other Repubapologists, a dear friend of mine lost her grandson in the Aurora shootings.  I can promise you that her deep and abiding grief wasn't faked.  I'd love to see you idiots mansplain to her husband, a retired colonel of our very own 'Merican Armed Forces (TM), how Herpin saying "it's a good thing the shooter had a high capacity magazine," was a defensible comment. 

    What Herpin said was poorly thought out.  He demonstrably caused distress to people who lost loved ones to that high capacity magazine wielding whacko.  He should say, "I made a mistake.  Not only did I hurt people who lost loved ones, but I said bad things about my beloved Magpul.  I apologize."  But, no, it'll be the Dems' fault that he's an idiot.  They made him talk.  (And the only part of the apology he might mean would be to apologize to Magpul.) 

    You Repubapologists disgust me.

     

  12. Half Glass FullHalf Glass Full says:

    No Republican in his or her right mind would even try to defend Bernie Herpin's idiotic, grossly insensitive, and factually incorrect comment.

  13. mamajama55mamajama55 says:

    Herpin: insensitive jerk, and wrong on the facts about high capacity mags being less lethal to the public.

    Mayors Against Illegal Guns studied 93 mass shootings in the US.  The study found that high capacity magazines were used in only 14% of those incidents, yet resulted in 63% of the fatalities.  

    And yes, that study was funded by big, bad, Bloooooooomberg. Try to suppress your gag reflex, gun heads, and at least read the stats. Somebody has to care enough to fund the studies.

    • Negev says:

      Now Mama, you know I appreciate and respect your fact finding talent, but you are wrong in your statement above. The studied found:

      Mass shootings account for less than 1% of all gun homicides in the US

      Of that 1%, assault weapons/high cap magazines were used in 15%, so .15% of total homicides.

      OF THAT .15%, there was a 63% higher fatality rate. 

      It does not say that high capacity magazines, while only 14% of incidentsaccounted for 63% of fatalities. 

      This in fact makes it clear that high capacity magazines, as indicated by the biggest supporter of banning them (Bloomberg) account for less than one quarter of one percent of gun deaths in America. 

      You told me to read the stats, its page 3 of the report.

      I do appreciate the link, I was expecting a much more bias study. One would argue, based on the report, that drug addiction treatment and family values would be the best places to start in ending mass shootings, and magazine capacity can account for very little in the equation. 

       

       

      • mamajama55mamajama55 says:

        Mass shootings are pretty clearly defined  by the FBI as those in which at least four people are murdered with a gun.  Of that group of 93 incidents, 63% of the fatalities were from high capacity magazines. Clear, right?

        I think you are referring to another FBI study I linked to, about total incidents of gun violence in the US or Colorado. I don't really remember, but I keep bitly links, and can probably find it if you want to check. 

        I didn't see anything about drug addiction, nor family values, in the MAIG study.

        • Negev says:

          Wrong. The MAIG study shows that of 93 incidents, 15% of them included high capacity magazines. Of that 15%, there was a 63% higher death rate. Not 63% of the total deaths were from high capacity magazines. 

          Therefore, if there were 93 of them, 14 had high cap mag used (15%). Of that 15%, the death rate was 63% higher, from 4.8 to 7.8.

          So, in the grand scheme of things, high cap mags account for much less than a quarter of mass shootings, and dramatically less than 1% of all gun deaths (.15%). However statistically, if your are involved in the .15% occurance, you have a 63% higher chance of dying. 

          If you read the cases, a majority are domestic issue and drug related. 

           

          • mamajama55mamajama55 says:

            Negev, Your reading of the MAIG stats is correct, and mine was wrong. However, you left out that a person is 151% more likely to get shot, even if not fatally, when a high cap magazine or assault rifle is involved, and, yes, 63% more likely to die than if an ordinary gun were used. And that figure of 7.8 deaths was an average per incident.

            If we can even cold-bloodedly consider such a thing. I mean, why doesn't it horrify you?

            So if you want to consider domestic violence as a "family values" issue, I can't stop you. Again, thanks to Evie Hudak for making sure that in Colorado, at least, abusers with protective orders against them can't buy guns.  I'll thank her. You, I assume, would not. So unfair to the poor abusers.

            There was some drug abuse in there, but mental illness, especially paranoid schizophrenia and bipolar disorder, seemed to figure as prominently in the shooter profiles.

            It seems as though this study sees semiauto pistols as ordinary guns, even though they can pop out 10 shots pretty darn quick. (I've shot them, and I'm good at it).

            So they're not included in the 15% of "assault rifles and high capacity magazine" murders, even though some of the shooters used semiauto pistols.

            Let's not lose sight of the fact that we're talking 93 mass murder incidents, which had an average of 6 people lying bleeding on the ground afterwards. So, 550 corpses of men, women, and children, dead because of rage, paranoia, madness, and easy access to efficient murder equipment.  That's where we see this differently.

            To you it seems like a small price to pay for an extra few seconds on the "giggle switch" at the target range. Not to me.

            • Negev says:

              Hi Mama,

              Yes, 151% more likely to get shot and live.

              And it does horrify me. It was deaply disturbing to read all of those cases. Perhaps Hudak is right to focus on the domestic side of the issues, as it seems to play a larger role in the mass murder rate, clearly dramatically more than the magazine capacity, that is for certain. So I will agree with you and thank her for that. 

              I believe and don't have handy the report which indicated that the average number of shots with pistol is under 5, resulting in little quantifiable difference between a revolver and semi auto pistol in the analysis, so while they may not be included in the stats, the relevance of the magazine size is greatly diminished.

              Lets not lose sight of the facts: 32,000 gun deaths in America. 60% from suicide, 1% from mass shootings, and .15%  from high capacity magazines. What we see differently is that your effort is primarily focused on an issue, that with 100% success rate you have curbed the madness .15%

              I would view these stats and look at the electorate and laugh – because they have, at great cost, failed you, mislead you, and gave us all a sense of doing something "reasonable" and with "common sense", which is in fact, just the opposite.

              Problem: Shooter passes background check

              "Solution": more background checks

              Problem: Shooter buys gun at public gun store

              "Solution": Regulate private sales

              Problem: Shooters frequent "Gun Free Zones"

              "Solution": More gun free zones

              Problem: Shooter does not stop until met with armed resistance

              "Solution": Less armed resistance

              Is this the "common sense" you speak of? Seriously, WTF are they thinking?

               

               

               

  14. mamajama55mamajama55 says:

    Congrats on the new job, Elliot. Perhaps we'll see each other over a witness stand someday.  wink

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