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August 18, 2015 01:03 PM UTC
29 Comments
Seriously, Jason.
Why should Walker answers questions about his long dead and gone family members?
As Walker is [probably] not a [current] member of the KKK, I just don't see the point here.
You don't see the point of even asking Stapleton to COMMENT about his grandpa's KKK background? Seriously?
I think Black Lives Matter would consider you part of the problem.
Right. It should be easy for Stapleton and instead his comms guy practically hangs up on a reporter. Bad behavior.
Of course they would. I am not a politically correct type of person.
But this isn't that. It's a question about, whether at this time in history, we should continue to honor KKK members in our public building, geographical and institutional names. It should be a widely asked and answered question here in Colorado where, for a significant part of Colorado history, almost every prominent Denver pol and civic leader was a Klan member. A discussion of whether or not it's time to change all those names of the things named to honor them is a discussion worth having.
It's weird to me that anyone would think Stapleton should not have to answer this.
It's weird to me that people think that Stapleton HAS to answer on this.
Uh-huh. It's not like this is:
1. An historical fact.
2. An ongoing national news story.
So totally, let's move on. Nothing to see here.
(end sarcasm)
Oh please CHB. Weird. No weirder than if Joe Hitler, great great nephew ;of Adolf, was running for something and he got asked what he thought of a building named after Uncle Hitler. Nothing Uncle Hitler did would be poor nephew Joe's fault but who could resist asking?
Who's weird here now? You're bringing in Hitler as a comparison. And the family name, by the way, was Schickelgruber (sp. may be off).
I don't see anything weird about comparing Nazi connections to Klan connections. The Klan just never amassed as much power as the Nazi Party. And yeah I know it was the National Socialist whatever but same thing, everybody knows what is meant so it’s beside the point just like your name quibble. The Klan's lynching, beating, burning and torturing people to death can't compete in scale with what the Nazis achieved but it's the thought that counts.
This is honestly something I struggle with. Will we then rename Washington, DC and state? Jefferson County? Sure, Washington was personally opposed to slavery, but he lacked the moral fortitude (or believed more in the political purpose served by keeping them) to release his slaves until his death. Do we then find every place, street, bar and tavern named after a slave owner, racist, anti-semite, etc. and rename those? I understand the desire behind this question, but I think it's prompting the wrong kinds of focus.
For me, this seems like a way to provoke people into responding WTF? and then proclaiming them racists when they can't process why you'd change a neighborhood's name when millions of black Americans can't find work, can't find decent schools for their kids, etc. There are hugely bigger examples of institutionalized and socialized racism that need addressing than what some suburb is called.
I don't have a problem with black folks demanding attention be paid, or doing things that are "rude." If I was part of a system that had failed me as badly as ours has them, I wouldn't be bound by its conventions either.
There will always be ambiguity surrounding the question of how we view historic figures in the context of present v past accepted standards, cultural milieu, common assumptions, etc. but Stapleton is a 2Oth century figure and the Klan is an organization that persists in the present and is guilty of horrific crimes against humanity well within living memory.
Anyone old enough for medicare is old enough to remember when lynchings went unpunished and when, in fact, any black person could be murdered by a white person in many parts of this country on the slightest whim because no jury (all white naturally) would convict a white for the murder of a black including of a black person having the temerity to try to insist on exercising the civil right to vote. The Klan, which controlled government in so many states, was the primary enforcer of the program of terror and murder.
Whether or not it's appropriate or desirable to continue to honor Klan members in this way is certainly a legitimate subject for further discussion and is in no way shrouded in the mists of times long past.
Dave: I don't see a point here either, other than Black Lives Matter 5280 is trying to impose a current political correctness, 80+ years after the fact, on a subdivision without asking the residents.
"push harder for an answer………." Why? This is all a non-issue. C.H.B.
I think if you were black, or even had empathy for the history of racism in this country, you wouldn't be nearly so flip about it.
Jeffco: I think you're getting carried away in trying to label people who don't care about this issue as being "flip." Channel 9 recently interviewed a couple of Stapleton residents. The black guy that was interviewed was OK with the name. Do you support an unbiased polling of Stapleton residents, or do you support this small pressure group being able to run rough-shod over everyone else with their agenda?
The P.C. crowd also tried to expunge the Sand Creek massacre from the history books. Native Americans objected as they want the evil of Sand Creek to be remembered.
Black Lives Matter 5280 is a small pressure group. When the NAACP and various black ministers get engaged, then maybe there will be something to talk about. CHB
Thank goodness you have the power to tell the world who matters and who doesn't. Clears everything right up!
(end sarcasm)
Your sarcasm is misplaced. Would you not consider that, in reality, all lives matter, not just black lives? What about Native Americans freezing their collective asses off every winter on Pine Ridge, where the unemployment rate is over 50%. Why should black lives matter more than those; other than BLM 5280 being the cause du jour right now?
Consider that Black Lives Matter, the group, came down hard on pres. candidate Martin O’Malley recently when he dared to actually state that “all lives matter.”
And no, I am not referring at all to "unborn babies."
How does saying that black lives matter and demanding action to protect them in any way imply that the lives of those who are not black don't matter or aren't worth protecting?
Saying that the environment matters doesn't imply that commerce doesn't. Saying that Israel matters doesn't imply that the Palestinians don't. Saying that honesty matters doesn't imply that loyalty, patience, or humility are irrelevant or unworthy.
Taking an argument (in the rhetorical sense) like, "Black lives matter." and responding that, "All lives matter" is a use of generalization to avoid and diminish the weight of the initial point. These folks aren't implying that there aren't plenty of other populations and issues we need to pay attention to; they're telling us that, quite literally, they are being killed by a system that is weighted against them And that's real, police are more likely to identify black people as threats than white folks– but so are the rest of society.
When your child comes up to you asking why her mother died, she's not looking for you to say, "Lot's of people's mothers die." She wants attention paid to her pain. When your wife comes up to you and asks why you cheated on her, she doesn't want to see frequency charts on marital infidelity. These folks want their pain addressed and they have a right to ask us to focus on them. God knows we've put them off long enough.
Black Lives Matter in no way implies that other lives don't. It's a movement that is born of so much clear every day evidence that blacks are treated as if their lives matter less than the lives of whites and is a demand that their lives not be treated as if they matter less, not that their lives should be considered more important than any others. But then, I'm sure you and all the other conservatives with a sufficient number of IQ points who use that argument already know that.
If the PC crowd is actually trying to expunge the Sand Creek Massacre from history books, rather than insisting on the facts and on refraining from naming things after the perp, then they're wrong. Could you provide me with a link to their demand that the facts of the Sand Creek Massacre not appear in history curricula?
Considering the ridiculous things students are barred from saying or asking about at various colleges and universities on PC grounds, I'm the last person who would deny that the whole PC thing can and sometimes does get seriously, even hilariously out of hand.
Heard one institution says asking a person where they're from is on the list as potentially hurtful and a non-no. I know that it can be very annoying for third generation Asian Americans to be asked where they're from and, when they answer "St Louis" in perfect young American up talk English, get the follow up "I mean where you're really from" but it seems pretty over the top to ban a common entry level small talk conversation topic because some people are idiots. On the other hand to view objecting to the confederate flag flying over a state capitol, placed there in the 60s to show defiance to demands for letting blacks vote and go anywhere whites could go, as silly PC is evidence of being seriously clueless.
So I will be happy to agree with you if the "PC crowd" has really called for expunging the Sand Creek Massacre. Can't recall hearing about that and can't find anything about it. Which certainly doesn't mean you are incorrect.
If I were a Native American I'd certainly want to change the name of any street or town named Chivington.
As far as I can tell, BLM is going about this the right way by educating and working with the community to get them to change the name. There's no reason to just accept some developer's name for historic reasons. Since the naming of towns is a mark of respect (no Lincolns in the South) we should get rid of these marks of respects for old racists.
I have yet to see any effort to "educate and work with the community." But I hope you're right as that is the way it should be done. C.H.B.
Well, let's see. There were the fliers posted on Stapleton's streets, the change.org petition, we're all here yammering about a spawn of Stapleton refusing to talk about it. There may even be a few Stapleton citizens who read this blog.
Doesn't any of this count? Seems like it's going a good way towards the education component.
It took Longmont twenty years of "deliberation" to finally change the name of Chivington Drive. Going back over the newspaper archive, it seems that there was just as much acrimony over that change as there is now about Stapleton. It seems like the arguments were much the same too.
Not being flip at all, but would it be too much trouble if someone could ask him a pesky Treasurer question, like where my tax refund is?
I've commented on this on the CBS site(which never published it), and here, and on the book of faces – but…here goes again.
1. It's indisputable that Ben Stapleton, Walker Stapleton's great-grandfather, was in fact a member of the KKK. He was known as the "Klan mayor". The Klan put in $15,000 and lots of canvassing to get him elected, twice. He was at this meeting on Table Mountain,
2. From about 1920-1925, the Klan ruled Colorado. They had their own mainstream newspaper, the Rocky Mountain American. They had a rally of 2500 people in Boulder.
3. The issue of re-naming Stapleton neighborhood is a volatile one – check out the unedited comments on the CBS Facebook post. People have strong opinions both ways.
4. Here are my thoughts: (as a former Park Hill and "near-Stapleton" resident ). The neighborhood west of what's now called Stapleton is a segregated neighborhood – mostly black and hispanic folks. The newly built fancy "Stapleton" is almost all white. This is economic segregation. Park Hill had sharp racial demarcation lines, as well, which have only recently started to blur, due partly to activism of my parents and many other good people. So naming the rich white neighborhood after a former Klansman is a slap in the face.
We're not going to be able to rename all of the places in Colorado named after former Klansmen, bigots, Indian fighters. I worked at a school named after Governor Evans, have climbed Mount Evans, driven and worked on Evans Blvd. He was also a Klansman, and an apologist for the Sand Creek Massacre.. But the "slippery slope" argument – if we give on this one, there's no end to it – is invalid. If Black Lives Matter activists are wanting the white neighborhood next to the black neighborhood not to be named after a Klansman, then that should happen.
As far as Walker Stapleton and his KKK great-grandpa, I think all people want is acknowledgement of the history. "Yes, my great-grandfather was a racist. His organization hated and feared Jews, Catholics, and people of color. I'm not a racist. I denounce those practices." Something along those lines.
Are the organizations proposing the change in name coming foward with the funding for all of the name change costs? Signage, company letterheads, etc.
And what about all of the land title records that reference property legal descriptions that bear reference to locations in the "Stapleton" area. I presume there is a strong desire to change those too? Means lots of legal work and title company work.
You can read about the Black Lives Matter 5280 group's goals and plans on their Facebook page. Already, we are increasing awareness of racism in Colorado history by just having this online conversation.
Regardless of how one feels about renaming the Stapleton neighborhood, it seems like a no-brainer for Walker Stapleton to address this question. Why avoid it? If he doesn't want his family history in the news, avoiding the question is just going to keep it out there. And I totally disagree that the question is inappropriate. It's a current issue, and it makes perfect sense to ask a politican about it given his family ties to the issue.