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February 05, 2016 06:44 AM UTC

Friday Open Thread

  • 71 Comments
  • by: Colorado Pols

“As partisans of our own way of life, we cannot help thinking in a partisan manner.”

–Gordon W. Allport

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71 thoughts on “Friday Open Thread”

  1. From WaPo….without comment.

     

    Hillary Clinton, blind to her own greed, makes another blunder

    It is the nature of our political environment that the best performance of one’s career can be ignored — and ruined — because of a single remark. Hillary Clinton was sailing along in the Democratic town hall hosted by CNN Wednesday night, sounding thoughtful and at ease when — bam! — the viral disaster ensued:

    ANDERSON COOPER: One of the things that Sen. [Bernie] Sanders points to and a lot of your critics point to is you made three speeches for Goldman Sachs. You were paid $675,000 for three speeches. Was that a mistake? I mean was that a bad error in judgment?

    CLINTON: Look. I made speeches to lots of groups. I told them what I thought. I answered questions.

    COOPER: But did you have to be paid $675,000?

    CLINTON: Well, I don’t know. That’s what they offered. 

                                                  …………………………………..

    The good Hillary Clinton — knowledgeable, occasionally thoughtful (as when expounding on the centrality of gratitude in her life) — is inseparable from the bad Hillary Clinton — often dull and entirely incapable of hiding her greed. When she is hitting her stride, one can imagine how impressive she might be in a general election, but then fairly or not, she can be so unforgettably awful that her strengths are ignored.

     

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2016/02/04/hillary-clinton-blind-to-her-own-greed-makes-another-blunder/

     

        1. Con Man Cory Gardner! Indeed — the GOP poster boy for smiling and waving off even mildly uncomfortable questions from a fawning, ever-obsequious “librul media,” and/or lying through your scummy teeth when occasionally pressed.

          1. You guys need to think more clearly about Cory as you're beginning to sound like liberal versions of Rush and Hannity. As for "Con Man Cory," he voted an emphatic NO earlier this week on an amendment by Mike Lee (R-UT) that would have gutted the Antiquities Act, used by most presidents since TR to create national monuments. Even G.W. Bush used the Act. 

            1. We're thinking very clearly. We certainly don't need Corey instead of a Dem for votes like that. We'd get many more votes we like from any Dem and we get many more votes we don't like from Corey. Clear enough? 

    2. Yeah, there was a follow-on to that idea in the debate last night.  Chuck Todd asked if Clinton was going to release transcripts of her paid speeches.  She had a rather poor response, "I'll look into it.  I don't know the status."

      I think Bernie does need to retool his money=power message.  Many of us understand his argument about money, particularly Wall Street money, dumping into campaigns, but he's having a difficult time framing the message, which allows Hillary to turn it into "you're saying the banks are buying my votes" when it's really, "money buys access, access makes voices louder, the loudest voices frame the debate."

      In that vein, though, I did find this interesting from last night's debate.

      Clinton responded that she was an enemy, not an ally, of Wall Street. “Hedge fund guys are trying so hard to stop me,” she claimed. But a flustered Sanders failed to point out that Clinton had attended a fundraiser in Philadelphia hosted by hedge fund managers only last week

      1. Totally agree with your take on this whole issue not exactly being flawlessly handled by either. I found that both candidates had very strong moments and pretty weak ones, this subject being HRC's as well as her contention that we, apparently alone among all the modern western industrialized states of the world, can't afford things like national health and higher education while the rest can and do. Clearly the real problem is a political landscape includng a congress that, even if it were to miraculously give the next Prez Dem majorities in both houses, isn't going to pass any such thing at this juncture. That would have been the valid point there.

        Bernie's biggest weakness is definitely sketchy command of foreign affairs with no ability to paint in anything other than the broadest and vaguest strokes or try to bring it all back to his domestic policy comfort zone. When HRC completed a detailed answer of progress she felt we were making in Afghanistan and policies she thought would accomplish more progress, agree with her or not, Bernie's now tired old come back that she was wrong about Iraq back in 2002 (yep, sure was) seemed like the kind of thing you default to when you aren't prepared with your own analysis and plans concerning the subject at hand… in this case Iraq and the whole regional situation here and now in 2016. By now he should have boned up on the kind of details HRC can so smoothly provide. She was SOS for God's sake. He should have known to study up to go toe to toe with her in that arena.

        All in all, however, they and the excellent, civilized, intelligent moderation by the Maddow/Todd moderation team made the entire GOP field look pathetic in comparison to either Dem candidate and all of their "debates" look like undignified, silly season circuses.

        It was interesting watching DWS in the aftor coverage try to pretend she hadn't been fighting more debate exposure for her chosen candidate, HRC, under the assumption that when you're ahead you shouldn't give your opponents opportunities to land a punch, all this time. I think HRC did herself some good here. Bernie didn't need to in NH but he turned in an over all good performance too. As a Dem I was reassured to see how sensible and presidential they both came off compared to the GOP front runners.

        2. Here's an article about Sanders and foreign policy I largely agree with.  It's longish, but the general theme is that his lack of focus on foreign policy is less about ignorance or extremism and more about the level of importance campaign-wise of foreign policy to Dems and the main themes of his campaign.

          While I think it's largely right, I would be more comforted by a Sanders who demonstrated greater knowledge while pivoting to more "important" ideas rather than the vagaries we're getting today.

  2. I learned something new from the debate – Hillary Clinton supports the continued use of the death penalty. I'm sorry but this is a major disqualifier for me. Will she appoint Supreme Court justices who will rule to continue this barbaric practice?  She continues to make it hard for me to vote for her if she wins the nomination. I just don't know how many of my core values I can compromise. 

    1. I was late turning on the debate, and this was what I first heard when I tuned in. Startling to me in a way. There are so many different ways Clinton (or any candidate) could have answered this even if they don't want to commit to ending the death penalty. She could have talked about the fact that it is NOT a deterrent to serious crime. She could have talked about federal vs state interests. She could have talked about whether the death penalty truly represents what "modern" America wants to stand for. Instead she made it clear that on this one issue, her core values do not match with my core values.

      2. Oh, here we go again. Don't misrepresent what I say. Did I say a litmus test? No. I am just surprised by her position which, by the way, runs counter to every Democratic platform that I can remember and I'm a pretty old guy.

        BTW: Her death penalty stance is just one of a multitude of issues where we have basic differences of position – single payer health care, middle east policy, breaking up the too big to fail banks, college education, bankruptcy code – and the list goes on. There comes a time when there are too many issues and the gap gets too wide. I am struggling with the idea that she could be the Democratic nominee. 

          1. Indeed, Mr. Dodd had better get used to the Hilary reality, warts and all. Unless John Kasich or Chris Christie gain the Republican nomination, Hilary, for me, is the next best alternative.

            "college education for free," single payer" ……. . Guess the fact that the country has $19 trillion in debt and trillions more in unfunded entitlements doesn't matter to ultra progressives like Bernie and those who worship at his feet.

                    1. Also interesting that, in all those northern and western European countries that have universal health care and publicly funded higher ed, you don't see them heading out to buy a loaf of bread with a wheelbarrow full of money. What you see is healthier happier populations who can actually afford to take nice long vacations and retire someday.smiley

                    3. Have to use this reply for Voyageur

                      Israel is far more of a top down controlled economy than the European countries that offer healthcare, education, childcare etc. Israel also has top down price controls and other features of a command economy, heavy subsidies for the minority orthodox Jews so they can study Torah and have lots of children without having to make a living, heavy subsidies to encourage settlers to build and live on disputed land and in housing in disputed parts of Jerusalem and, of course, the whole thing is and always has been propped up by the US. The entire edifice was built with our money and would collapse in five minutes if we pulled the plug.

                      Very unlike, say, Scandanavian countries and a poor choice for predicting how Medicare for all or public higher education would work in our entirely different economy. In fact a poor choice for comparison to any other country, being such a special case from her economy, crazy proportional representational political system with the huge built in contradiction of being an allegedly democratic state and also a Jewish state with restrictions on Arab Israeli citizens who are not in fact first class citizens though Israel likes to brag that they are and a soon to be majority Palestinian population with no rights but living within a single Israeli state. Not much in the way of lessons to be applied generally to be learned from such a singular state. 

                      Pretty amusing that the same GOPers who view the mild,  moderate Obama as a radical lefty anti-Christ are so completely untroubled by the degree of socialism, top down government control of the economy and arguably the most liberal abortion on demand policy on the planet when it comes to their fawning admiration for the Netanyahu government.

                      I've been there too. Back in the day once for 3 months, once for 6 months. Lived on a Kibbutz. Great working extended vacation for a young person in those days. My Kibbutz, like almost all the original ones (mine was one of the oldest from the turn of the 19th to 20th century), was purely communist/secular and staunchly proud of it. 

                    2. oh, I got it…

                      higher taxes = healthier, happier, populations…bad

                      lower taxes = more billionaires/ more poverty/ struggling populations……good

                      Do I have that about right, CHB?

                    3. So what? It's costing them a less through taxes to have education, healthcare, childcare, nice vacations and a comfortable retirement than it costs us to have those things by paying for them out of pocket in addition to our taxes so they are the ones getting more for less with less stress and that's probably why they rate so much higher than we do on happiness.

                      You just hate the concept of taxes. You'd rather pay more for less than less for more through taxes. It isn't rational. Especially since we also have a less prosperous less upwardly mobile middle class by clinging to conservative economic theory and don't forget that's what we're doing.

                      Despite what your blathering R pols say taxes are at historic lows. Government services of all kind have been cut. The Walmartization and outsourcing race to the bottom of the economy has been vigorously pursued. The states that are the purest labs for conservative economic practices are a disaster.

                      We are no longer number one in category after category. But we have low taxes. And ever higher bars to clear to pay for everything that makes for a decent living. Oh goody.

            2. Clearly, you won't ever agree with Sander's financial proposals. That's not really a reason to resort to name-calling: "ultra progressives" "those who worship at his feet". Seen any worship here, really?

              I usually respect your opinions and posts – but this isn't worthy of you.

              As far as which "progressive policies" created that debt you are so appalled by, you need look no further than Republicans Ronald Reagan, and the Bush dynasty.

              Perhaps this graphic from the Washington Post may help:

                1. Doesn't really matter who contributed to the debt, in the long run. What matters is its existence and what to do about it. Yes, I was perturbed with the budget bill passed by the Republicans several months ago and the forgetting of the sequestration. They added to the debt; Obama got what he wanted, so he signed it. 

                  And, lo and behold, Senator Sanders knows how to game the system when he wants to. The Postal Board of Governors is almost empty because Senator Sanders placed a hold on President Obama's nominees. Seems like those models of government inefficiency; the postal unions; don't care for some of Obama's nominees. And Bernie is happy to do their bidding.

                  Mama: I understand your feelings. But maybe you haven't been as active in reviewing posts and news references made here as you generally are. 

                  2. Those Postal Board of Governors appointees, which Sanders blocked from being re-appointed (as any Senator can do), were trying to privatize the US Post Office and close 82 mail processing plants, costing 15,000 good paying jobs in economically depressed areas.

                    The USPS is only "inefficient" because the GOP has been trying to privatize it for years, by requiring that they prepay retirement benefits for 75 years up front. No other business in its right mind would attempt to do that.

                    Sanders did the right thing in blocking the Republican move to shut down Postal service, and he's been fighting that fight for years,long before he ran for Presidential office.

                     

                     

                    1. I agree with the part about pre-funding the retirement health benefits. That was stupid. The Postal Service consistently rates high as one of the most trusted federal agencies. And, yes, any senator can place a hold on presidential appointees. Or decline to hold hearings, as in the backlog situation with Obama judicial appointees. That's generally a Republican "stunt."

                      I also think you should explore the intricacies, and idiocies, of the postal union power before talking about privatism. Good friend of mine retired from a managerial job in the USPS several years ago. Worked in several states. He says he could rarely fire anyone, even for blatant drug use while on the job or clocking in and dong little work, due to the unions. As for the "good paying jobs," US Dept. of Labor (Dictionary of Occupational Titles) rates most postal jobs as either unskilled or semi-skilled in nature. But they still get skilled worker wages. Perhaps a "hangover" from prior Democratic administrations??

  3. Bernie:

    "On our worst days, I think it is fair to say, we are 100 times better than any Republican candidate."

    Love this guy more and more every time he stands up for common sense, practical solutions, and rising above the petty, trivial crap that consumes way too much of our political "discourse".

    3. Actually, fact checkers report that on their worst day, Bernie and Hillary were just 97.83 times as good as the Grumpy Old Plutocrats.  Further ptoof that you can,'t trust the lying liberal press.

       

       

  6. Outsourcing the U.S. Senate cafeteria is stupid and evil, oh, and it hasn't worked:

    U.S. Senate Food Service Workers

    One privatization story that literally "hits home" is the story of the people who work in the home of our federal government, the U.S. Capitol. In 2008 the U.S. Senate "saved money" by privatizing its food services. Democratic Sen. Dianne Feinstein said at the time, "There are parts of government that can be run like a business and should be run like businesses."

    So a private corporation was hired, and the existing workers were laid off and replaced with low-wage, few-benefit workers. That's what happens when you "run government like a business" because businesses do everything they can to "save money" by paying as little as they can and providing the minimum of services they can. Senate food workers had to try to find second and third jobs, just to get by. Some Senate cafeteria workers are homeless even though they have "jobs."

    After some time of trying to get by on wages that don't enable people to get by, the new workers decided to start trying to improve their situation. They began trying to organize, engaged in walkouts, tried to get some publicity, filing labor complaints, and eventually won a raise … except it turns out that "being run like a business" meant the business would find ways around meeting their commitments.

    I bet there's a middle of the road, bipartisany type senator who could actually change this if he wanted to. Subjecting workers to the whims of a Billionaire Class board that may or may not have Billionaire Class brains is one of the most destructive aspects of our economy. 

    Outsourcing is evil and will always result in the lowest common denominator for the working class here and the world over……while Billionaires lick their chops and reinforce their gated communities.

  7. Good advice for both Clinton and Sanders to heed, and supporters to be aware:

    There's no doubt that Sanders presents a unique problem for Clinton. She sees the near future as one in which she — a proven warrior against Republican slings and arrows — serves as a lonely bulwark against the dismantling of progressive accomplishment. But Sanders is selling glittering visions of a progressive revolution. It's up to Clinton to sell her mission as the more realistic, and to point out that Sanders is going to get his teeth kicked in by an angry and entrenched GOP and that he's had it pretty easy being an independent winning elections in safe Vermont.

    For a while, it looked like we'd have a debate over these competing visions. That it's skidded into this contretemps over who has the purest progressive bona fides is bad news for both candidates. For Clinton, it's simply a war she can't win and should avoid fighting in the first place, lest she become more reactive than strategic. And for Sanders, the pettiness cuts against the respectful tone of competitiveness he laid out from the outset, and it's starting to make him look less like a principled revolutionary and more like a conventional politician. It's a street fight tailor-made to sow resentment and depress turnout, and you have to imagine that the GOP candidates do not mind it one bit.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/so-that-happened-democratic-debate_us_56b3ca71e4b08069c7a6a533?utm_hp_ref=politics

    1. I think the chattering class is making this more of a drama than it really is. HRC is going to win the nomination. For all the contentious moments, and there always are some while pols in the same party fight for the nomination, Bernie has given every indication that he'll be a strong supporter when she does. The NH debate wound down with statements and much head nodding about how they both believe that both of them are a zillion times better than any of the Rs. We heard the same thing when HRC lost, that her supporters were going to be too embittered to support Obama. Didn't pan out that way. It won't this time either. I bet Bernie wil be a whole lot more helpful to her than the Clintons ever were to Obama.

    1. And #3/#4 will be the Puppy/Kitten Bowls on Animal Planet. If we're home, we'll turn that on. It's weird, our cats never acknowledge the television except that one time a year. They actually watch the kitties on TV with real fascination.

  11. On a sad note, the Post noted today that Maurice White, the founder of the band Earth, Wind, and Fire, passed away on Wednesday at age 74. I assume most know that EWF's long time lead singer, Philip Bailey, is a graduate of Denver East High School. 

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