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Jane Norton: Abolishing Department of Education "Not That Radical"

by: Colorado Pols

Tue Dec 15, 2009 at 15:01:48 PM MST


Following up on our note from last week, the Colorado Independent reports:

Former Lt. Governor Jane Norton said she was spurred to try to win Colorado Democratic Michael Bennet's U.S. Senate seat by what she sees as the dramatic expansion of government in the Obama era. In stump speeches, emails and interviews, she has vowed to work to cut federal spending as a way to end the "government takeover" of the private sector. One of the ways Norton proposes to trim spending is to eliminate the federal Department of Education...

Although she is the clear frontrunner in the race to unseat Bennet, Norton has not been the top choice among conservative grassroots voters in the state- a bloc of voters being increasingly influenced by the anti-tax anti-establishment Tea Party movement here. For that reason, events like the one at the Lamplighter may be much more attractive to the Norton campaign than the small number of attendees might suggest. Blogger and Tea Party organizer Randy Smith is exactly the kind of local opinion leader Norton would like to win enthusiastic support from to shore up the conservative base in the state while downplaying her deep establishment connections...

So the question rising from the night at the Lamlighter is one not only the Colorado left blogosphere is interested in asking: Is Norton serious about eliminating the Department of Education or was she merely playing the small crowd for effect, safe beyond the gaze of Denver media?

Oh she's serious alright, says her campaign manager:

"She believes state and local control is better than having them taken over by the the federal government... She supports a return to a balance that has state and local jurisdictions as preeminent, empowering parents rather than bureaucrats," he told the Colorado independent.

The idea is not that radical, he said.

"Federal involvement in education is a matter of legislation, so now it's a matter of rebalancing... States have rights under the Constitution. We got to this point through intrusive government... [through] rolling federal intrusions, just as we're seeing in health care and with the Detroit automakers."

Cummings said Norton supports charter schools and increased choice for parents. He didn't offer specifics on her plan to eliminate the Department of Education.

The Independent concludes with a brief discussion of why abolishing the Department of Education would in fact be a really bad idea--but you already knew that. Many of the most populated areas in Colorado, centered around the Denver metro area, have long seen strong education policies as a vitally important plank in electoral politics--and eliminating the Department of Education altogether isn't going to play well come general election time. This wouldn't be the first hare-brained idea that makes the "Tea Party" cheer and everybody else cringe--the question is how many of these a viable U.S. Senate candidate can afford.  

Colorado Pols :: Jane Norton: Abolishing Department of Education "Not That Radical"
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I've got an idea.....
Let's abolish the U.S. Senate instead

"Religion is for people who don't want to go to hell. Spirituality is for people who've been there, and don't want to go back"



Or just part of it.
And increase the representation in the House to what it was 100 years ago.  

Once upon a time-100 million Americans, 435 Reps.
Now - 300 million Americans, 435 Reps. the Senate should be increased to three per state.  


[ Parent ]
But then you'd have 3 times as many Liebermans
or Sessionses or whatevers.

Never assume "shill" when "idiot" is available as an explanation. [h/t Ralphie]

[ Parent ]
Heh
I'm always shocked how anti-government some conservatives can be. How can you vote for them?

It's like electing an arsonist to head up the fire department.


You might be shocked about how conservative some people can be
I'm always shocked at how conservative they can become when they want something.

There's a real difference.


[ Parent ]
Such conservatism makes sense on a certain level.
To carry the fire department metaphor a little further: Once all the buildings are burned to the ground, there's nothing left to burn, so you can then get rid of the fire department. It's a very destructive philosophy that makes perfect sense to its True Believers.

What I really want to know is whether Norton favors eliminating the Department of Homeland Security, another "matter of legislation" that has pissed away at least as much money as the Department of Education in recent years.


[ Parent ]
Or the Commerce Dept.
Or a the NIH & CDC.
DOE.
Privatize the FAA! REagan wanted it- it must be good.

[ Parent ]
I don't read that as abolish public education
I read it as return it to the states and local jurisdiction. For those that compare it to the fire department, she's saying the fire department should be a local government issue, not federal.

It's an interesting question. Why do we have a federal dept of education? If it's a question of the dollars, you can have the federal dollars delivered in block grants based on number of students and reduce ED to 4 accountants.

I'm not saying it's a good idea, I'm just saying it's not automatically a bad idea either.

My recommendations in the 2010 primary?


Sure...
I suppose that's a fair point.  You have to look at their motive, though. It's certainly not the tiny fraction of the federal budget education represents.

To these nutjubs, eliminating the Department of Education is the first step toward fully dismantling the public education system.


[ Parent ]
Not always
I know a large number of conservatives that support the concept of taxpayer funded K-12 education. But they are frustrated with the horrible job the education industry has done the last 50 years and so are open to radical changes.

My recommendations in the 2010 primary?

[ Parent ]
Because why would we leave education up to the states?
If college entrance opportunity is going to be equal, then a high school degree from Mississippi (no offense to southerners, just to your schools) has to be the same as one from Massachusetts. All schools should be held up to some national standard, which requires federal oversight and bureaucracy.

And plus just more generally, why would we ever for goodness sakes trust the states or more local jurisdiction. I know you rail a lot against the BVSD, you actually want to give them more power and authority?

I think the federal government is the only entity to make sure that we have national standards in our education, applicable to all students, to make sure no-one falls through the cracks -- re-allocating resources as the need arises.

Education is monumentally important for the economy, crime, plus it is an intrinsic good. So again, why would we trust this to the states or locals?  

"If someone just sticks to shutting the fuck up, can they still go outside and play a game of hide and go fuck yourself?" -- Fidel's Dirt Nap



[ Parent ]
More generally
The Federal government has taken on at least part of the job of maintaining our education system for the same reason Congress has created most of the rest of the Federal bureaucracy: because private industry and/or the state and local governments have failed to get the job done,and are usually actively opposing getting the job done.  Social Security, Medicare, the EPA...

And what Raphael said: you gripe about your own local school district and you want to turn over the money from our Federal tax dollars to them without condition or oversight?  Um... No.

"I have come to the conclusion that the making of laws is like the making of sausages-the less you know about the process the more you respect the result."  -- Anonymous IL State Rep. circa 1878


[ Parent ]
My point is not that BVSD would do better
It's that they're all incompetent. Jon Stewart had a great comment about the banks paying large bonuses during the crash to retain their "best people." He said, "you have no best people - they all suck."

The educational system in this country sucks. Yes there are a lot of good people doing their best and the vast majority trying to do a good job. But the system as a whole, and the educrats who fight any real change - it gives us crap.

As to needing federal guidelines to enforce minimum standards - unless that minumum is 50% drop-out rates in big city schools, that's not happening.

What's the answer? I don't know. But I don't see any good argument to keep any given part of it.  

My recommendations in the 2010 primary?


[ Parent ]
Which school (s) do you teach for?
Which school (s) do you volunteer for?
For which school do you attend Accountability meetings? or otherwise engage?

I had nuns K-5. The beauty of the Catholic elementary education (at least 40 years ago) is that the parents had nothing to do with anything but writing the check and showing up on Sunday. As a parent of kids in public schools, I neither have nor want that luxury.

Perhaps you do engage. Perhaps you are present.

But answer this - which seems more likely to you:
a) In the 19th century, modified slightly in the 20th, we got the school calendar right forever? One size fits most, 184 days of instruction, a linear progression from K-12.
or
b) The whole thing needs the big re-think?
200 + days of instruction, K-3 gets compressed, 4-6 gets a new focus. And 7-10 is a path for the baccalaureate bound.  (see Jefferson's Children; Bottstein, Leon)

Why is it that in corp America when we want better more talented people we expect to pay for it but in the education profession we think we can make it better by wishing it were so and complaining about the status quo?

Until 20 or 30 years ago education (like nursing) benefitted from the availability of a relatively trapped, highly talented labor pool: women.  But then women started getting sales jobs, and starting businesses and running HP and everything. Education can't recruit.  Just think how much college educated, motivated, talent you could recruit on $17/hr.

I hear your frustration David.
I'd love to help you, and Colorado and the nation fix this.  But until we get past this we gotta do what we've always done and we gotta do it for the same or less as we've always spent we're not going to see a whole lot of change.


[ Parent ]
No & yes
I actually taught one day as a substitute when the teachers did a scik-out (or something like that). I've also served on several school and district committees.

I think we agree on a lot of the fundamental questions. But I think we must look for real change now.

My recommendations in the 2010 primary?


[ Parent ]
Why pick on Mississippi?
they fund K-12 and higher ed about as well as Colorado.

We outperform still, but now that we're seeing much much larger class sizes and other changes, we'll catch up. down.


[ Parent ]
She is right
Was education bad before the federal government saved us from ourselves?  Could we spend these billions better in local schools?  Open you mind to new ideas and don't dismiss them just because they are from the other party.

billions?
What billions?

[ Parent ]
46.7 of them in 2010. n/t


"Kevin and I will keep them out somehow -- even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is!"  

[ Parent ]
most of which came right back to schools.


[ Parent ]
How much is 'most'? 24 billion?


[ Parent ]
So to be clear here, Steve,
are you saying you agree that the Department of Education should be abolished?  

"The only way you could be worse is if you were Wade Norris." Ralphie

[ Parent ]
Good luck
getting a "yes" or "no" answer from a politician.

[ Parent ]
Which is a bit of a bummer, considering
he used to be my Senator.  

"The only way you could be worse is if you were Wade Norris." Ralphie

[ Parent ]
Encroaching liberal evil exposed
The Dept. of Ed. was created in 1979. But already it's sacred to you socialists, isn't it? Couldn't possibly roll it back, could we?

Why do conservatives hate liberals? Because we know what you're up to, piece by piece. The Fabian Freeway all over again.

"The Democratic Party is going to experience a bloodbath in November." -- Colorado Pols editor MotR


A hot coal
Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned.

-- Buddha --


[ Parent ]
Just a guess on my part
but I can't believe this is really going to be an issue in the 2010 senate race. Are there a significant number of voters who consider the existence of the U.S. Department of Education (one way or the other) a top priority? I find it hard to believe this will even be on the radar screen for most voters.

I think Ms. Norton mentioned it because it does to a small extent appeal to the right wing base but it also is a diversion until she can figure out what to say about the issues voters really care about. She doesn't want to get too far ahead on those issues until she sees where the election cycle is going next year.  


Not a big issue
because education isn't that big an issue these days (for good or ill), but it's a credential that will be mentioned from now on as part of a pattern -- "She's one of us," by her conservative supporters, and "Look out! She's nuts!" by her Democratic opponents.

[ Parent ]
Not me.
I'm far more concerned with eliminating the Patriot (ha!) Act, unbundling the DHS, eliminating the tax breaks to big oil, big pharma, and so on.  

As far as education goes, let's face reality--property taxes in Colorado are FAR too low to support even a mediocre system of public education.  Look at the states that consistently rank highly in terms of K-12 education quality--they also have much higher property taxes.  

Discipline without purpose is tyranny.


[ Parent ]
Depends on who you ask
I view the atrocious state of our educational system as the #1 issue this country faces. I rank it above jobs, the GWOT, energy/carbon, & health-care in terms of it's impact long-term.

I don't know if Norton has any real answers to this other than what appears to be a throw-away line for the fringe on the right. But substantive proposals on this - that to me is major.

My recommendations in the 2010 primary?


[ Parent ]
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