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Yeah, We're Really Not Even Trying

by: Colorado Pols

Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 10:57:39 AM MST


Ugh.

That must be what Republican leaders at the State Capitol are saying today after reading comments from freshman Rep. Amy Stephens in Sunday's Denver Post:

Republicans are unwilling to let the illegal immigration issue die this legislative session, even as they admit their proposals are probably headed nowhere.

But keeping the debate alive in the Democratic-controlled statehouse, in part, is strategy for the next election - illegal immigration typically rises near the top of issues in voter polls.

"Believe me, we are keeping count and we will roll that out at the end of the session," warned Rep. Amy Stephens, R-Monument.

The freshman lawmaker charged that her bill, which would prevent illegal immigrants arrested in criminal cases from getting released on bail, was purposefully sent to a committee that would kill it.

House Speaker Andrew Romanoff called that a "ridiculous, unfounded, poisonous suggestion."

"This is not a game," he said. "You can spend your time playing politics, or you can solve problems."

The idea of introducing a bill that the other party will kill is a strategy that both parties have used in the past, but rarely has anyone been so dumb as to actually admit to a reporter that they were introducing legislation just for the hell of it. But now, thanks to Stephens, Democrats have a nice article to use in attack pieces against Republicans: While Democrats were passing X, Y and Z legislation, Republicans were only interested in playing politics.

Good work, there, Rep. Stephens. You might want to think about not talking to reporters anymore.

 

Colorado Pols :: Yeah, We're Really Not Even Trying
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Yeah, We're Really Not Even Trying | 55 comments
The BWB School of Electioneering
Poor, poor, slow on the draw Amy.  Immigration did not work for BWB and it won't work in 2008.  The legislature went about as far as it possibly could at a state level with their immigration special session. 

I think most of the voters understand that.  They also understand that ultimately the corrections rest with the Feds.

You go, girl.  Build your election house on sand.

"Collective fear stimulates herd instinct and tends to produce ferocity toward those who are not regarded as members of the herd." -Bertrand Russell

Dems aren't for law and order; they're for illegal immigrants
Amy isn't talking to the enablers of law breakers, she's talking to Coloradans who will vote against those enablers of law breakers, the governor and Democrat majority in the general assembly.

Would the Dems be so stupid is to highlight an article that shows their hypocrisy, their active enablement of illegal immigration, which voters hate?

Doubt it.

This thread looks like an attempt to shut up an opponent of illegal immigration.

Don't think it will work, because illegal immigration will be a hot issue until the gov. and legislative leaders show some interest in helping in the fight to secure our borders.

Amy should work this one hard. It will pay off in 2008, and the Dems know it, as do the corrupt business leaders who back them as enablers of illegal immigrants.

[ Parent ]
Wasn't it the DEM legislature
...that passed all those bills to control illegal immigration?  And that Owens thought good enough to sign?

Coloradoans did NOT vote for BWB and his immigration focus.  Yes, Tancredo got re-elected, but out of his district, that's like Catholics endorsing the pope.

Just like my signature implies, R's make up there own facts regardless of history and other barometers.  You are like a hurricane blowing hard south and saying, just because it is the Michael Brown part line, that it is blowing north.

"Collective fear stimulates herd instinct and tends to produce ferocity toward those who are not regarded as members of the herd." -Bertrand Russell

[ Parent ]
it was.....and the voters spoke by increasing the Democratic majorities in both houses

[ Parent ]
so should we just starve them in jail?
On the one hand, the anti-immigrant crowd squawks about spending money on illegal immigrants.  Now they want to deny them bail - which means we're spending money to keep them in jail.

So I suppose we just lock them up and let them starve.

This bill should be laughed to death for the piece of immature idiocy that it is.

Now run along and go play with Trigger while the grownups get some work done.

[ Parent ]
Well
It seems that the RNC is now for illegal immigrants. Mel Martinez who is for amnesty just got the chairmanship. It will be interesting how that plays.
[ Parent ]
Bill was likely dead despite committee assignment
However, I would have thought that Judiciary would have been more appropriate than State Affairs.

A telling thing about the life of any bill is if there is a sponsor in the 2nd chamber. In case there was no Senate sponosr listed.

Democrats Unite! After all, it's only the future at stake.

what was with the decision to shrink Senate State Affairs to only 5 members?
  I know that Joan and/or Ken wanted Tupa off as chair either because: (a) he's a new father and they are "family friendly," (b) punishment for mucking up one of their bills during the special session, or (c) some or all of both of the above. 
  Why didn't they simply replace him with another senator?  Why the reduction in overall size?
[ Parent ]
Romanoff is a bit insincere
as state affairs surely is a partisan kill committee, and judiciary would be the normal assignment for a bill on bail in criminal proceedings.

Of course, one can argue that state affairs do encompass any immigration bill and that this is really an immigration bill rather than a criminal justice bill.

The sneakier thing to do would have been to introduce the bail provision as an amendment to another bill with a criminal justice bill with a broad enough title either in Judiciary or on the floor at second reading.  This would force more Democrats to go on record about the idea.

Alternately, the provision could have been buried in a bill full of many less contoversial bail reforms, some of which might appeal to Democrats, which might have landed it in Judiciary.

The whole idea when you bring a politically motivated bill that won't pass is to force your opponents to vote on it.  But, the majority members of the State Affairs committee are chosen because they are largely impervious to that kind of political attack and can prevent other members of the majority party from having to vote on those issues.

I'd disagree that admitting that you've introduced a bill that won't pass is really a serious mistake.  The real mistake is doing that in a way that won't be very effective.

[ Parent ]
ah, but she won 75/25
in an open seat election. Remember, this is the same district that served up Lynn Hefley and Amy had almost the same margin of virctory as Lynn did last time. Even this may not put Amy at risk.
and?
Why would her constituents want a representative who is not actively looking for solutions to the problems, rather than causing more? She's obviously a hack and being tooled by Cadman, May and Balmer.

Good going Stephens, within one week you showed your true colors as another do-nothing republican.

"Suddenly, it may be cool to be American again" - William J. Kole

[ Parent ]
One bill misfired, four to go
Aren't they limited to five bills each?

"Collective fear stimulates herd instinct and tends to produce ferocity toward those who are not regarded as members of the herd." -Bertrand Russell

[ Parent ]
I seem to remember it's Six

[ Parent ]
It's five


Democrats Unite! After all, it's only the future at stake.
[ Parent ]
She won't lose re-election
But these comments could hurt a lot of other Republican candidates
[ Parent ]
Silver Lining
For all the downsides of term limits, they do provide for more entertainment.
Didn't realize that the Legislature was
really reality TV. Maybe we should elect Ozzie next time - think he's a D or an R?
[ Parent ]
Survivor 5280
I would be fun if instead of term limits we had a telvised process of voting people "off the island," and then held elections only for the open seats.
[ Parent ]
We have the first Amendment proposal for
the 2008 ballot.
[ Parent ]
LOttery
I have been proposing a lottery system for selecting Congresspeople for years.  Every 6 years, everyone who is of age and has an IQ above catatonic gets put in a lottery.  The first one chosen in each district has to serve in Congress for 6 years at their previous salary plus 10%.  That way, we get a more representative congress and people don't run for the money and no one can make a career out of politics.  It would work just as well for the legislature.
[ Parent ]
How Athenian of you.
Well, except for the compensation part.  I have to admit I still like the Survivor idea.
[ Parent ]
Let's do it like they do it on the Discovery Channel!
Watching freshmen legislators during their first session can be sort of like watching the Discovery Channel's documentaries on baby animals, comically learning to walk on their wobbly new legs.  Bambie on Ice also comes to mind.  However, while we might snicker behind our hands at the Jimmy Stewart "Mr. Smith" types who don't know how to "play the game", we admire their candor and their integrity. 

What Ms. Stehpens seems to be demonstrating isn't disingenuous honesty but bumbled dishonesty…sort of the political equivalent of watching the widdle bitty baby shark bungle its first feeding frenzy. 

Fiscal note
It would have died anyway because of the fiscal note of keeping all these folks in county jails waiting for the INS to take them.  Alternatively, I suppose she wants to send a bill to Her president George W. Bush, asking for money to house them in our jails, or if not in federal jails?  I hear there is SO much money for this by the Feds.  Also realistically, law enforcement isn't supportive of this.
Heavy sigh ...

This issue really pisses me off ...

Pushing illegal immigration hurt the Republican party very badly in statewide elections, because apparently no one noticed that the state is 20% Hispanic and those folks vote.  Likewise, no one seemed to notice the number of voters who turned out at the state capitols to protest immigration bills.  Having an anti-Hispanic platform (heh, you illegal Mexican immigrants -- maybe a voter's father, mother, relatives, neighbors  -- you're all largely drug using, criminals who take jobs away from decent folks) in Colorado (isn't Colorado a Spanish word?) is not helpful, and downright dumb politics.

The venom against illegal immigrants was racist and directed at Hispanics -- it did not seem to apply to the folks from Pakistan, India, Korea, Russia, Saudia Arabia, Yemen, and elsewhere who come here on student visas and just stay. Illegal Mexican immigrants didn't fly planes into the World Trade Center -- immigrants from our "friends" the Saudis and the Yemenis did.  Yet, securing the Mexican border is the answer to terrorism?

Now, if history is any guide, thanks to the last election, Republicans get to look forward to a couple decades of Democratic rule in Colorado.

The issue works in Tancredo's and Lamborn's districts, because they have the lowest Hispanic population (6%, & 11%) in the state.  Said differently, when Tancredo pushes illegal immigration it gets him elected in his district, but trashes the rest of the party who get tarred with his vitrol.

Beauprez featured the immigration issue prominently, but his stellar campaign staff seemed to have also missed the fact that immigration policies and practices are controlled by the federal government (the elected office he was leaving) and not by state governments (the elected office he was seeking).

There's almost a one-to-one correlation between the % of Hispanic voters in a county and the victory margin between Ritter and Beauprez.

Maybe a "Dee Dee Dee" tee shirt from Carlos Mencia would be appropriate.



My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government.  Thomas Jefferson


If I were in ideological Republican
I'd be pissed off at her for wasting her time, her bill limits, and being a laughing stock.  Well, other than if I were Tommy T.

"Collective fear stimulates herd instinct and tends to produce ferocity toward those who are not regarded as members of the herd." -Bertrand Russell

[ Parent ]
If I were in ideological Republican
I'd be proud that she stood up and offered a solution in the face of the leftist State government.
[ Parent ]
Yeah,,,
those liberal illegal invader coddlers.  We Republicans did SO much on that issue before we made it popular.
[ Parent ]
But again, with no bail, she has
just taken care and feeding over from the Feds. Oh good, a self-imposed unfunded mandate - heck of a reelection platform - "they wouldn't let me set up a gazillion dollar tax burden on the taxpayers of Colorado" is not what I would want to be running on. Have no problem with dealing with immigration issues, have a lot of problems with this bill.
[ Parent ]
BANG!
The sound of the BWB tradition of shooting oneself in the foot.

"Collective fear stimulates herd instinct and tends to produce ferocity toward those who are not regarded as members of the herd." -Bertrand Russell

[ Parent ]
Please educate
As a new member of this forum...what is a BWB?
[ Parent ]
we're still trying to figure that out as well
no seriously, Both Ways Bob
[ Parent ]
Thanks
Much obliged.
[ Parent ]
Keep it up, lose again
The non-partisans have caught onto your demogogeury (sp?).  Pleasee, please keep encouraging nuts like her.

"Collective fear stimulates herd instinct and tends to produce ferocity toward those who are not regarded as members of the herd." -Bertrand Russell

[ Parent ]
Solution you say?
It's not a solution she's offering.  It's a sound bite.  But hey, that type of "solution" has worked so well in the past.  NCLB for example.  If that's all it takes, why not just solve most of the country's problems by making a new law that mandates that all people must be happy and healthy and then keep track of all the anti-happiness, anti-healthyness guys who vote against it?
[ Parent ]
You're right.
I don't share your sentiments that this state is irrevocably blue.  In fact, I think we 2006 was a hiccup.  Republicans will be fine in Colorado.  But the GOP lost across the country--but especially Colorado--because of the vitriol spewed by guys like Tancredo about immigration. 

Here's a stat that should catch Dick Wadhams' attention:

Heavily Latino Pueblo County voted for Ritter by the same proportion as they voted AGAINST Referendum I: 67%.  Let's imagine how 2006 would have turned out if Bob Beauperz campaigned on values issues and laid off the anti-immigrant rhetoric...

Would Bob have won?  Doubt it--it was just a really bad year for our party across the country.  But he would have made it close and he could have kept Latino voters in the fold.  Tancredo will hopefully be muted after his failed presidential run.  That will leave it up to Republicans to reach out to Latinos.  That doesn't mean pander to the amnesty-now crowd.  In fact, in polls Latinos say they oppose bilingual education and illegal immigration as much--IF NOT MORE THAN--whites.  But they cannot stand the obvious madness on the a few prominent conservatives have. 

I'm not keen on the president's plan.  But the answer is not Tancredo, either.  There is a middle-ground and the party that finds it will win more elections. 

[ Parent ]
SHHHHHH.....Don't tell the xenophobes that Colorado is a Spanish word
they'll want to run a bill to change the name to something American like "Centennial."
[ Parent ]
It's just another illustration . . .
of why competitive districts are better in the long run.  Competitive districts tend to result in higher quality candidates regardless of political affiliation.
Would that Be??
Like the 4th District for instance.  We had two really lousy candidates there.  How about the 7th?  Perlmutter has a brain and he cares, but he's no star.  And little Rickey??  What about the 3rd?  Oh, we have boring back-bencher Salazar and who was the Republican candidate??  Oh please.  I don't think competitive districts create better candidates necessarily.  Arguably, the best legislators from Colorado are in Denver and Boulder, two of the least competitive districts.

IMHO, the real problem is that politics has gotten so negative and so worthless that people who could be real stars and who could do this country a lot of good just tune out of the process.  What with the money and the just plain pettiness and nastiness of the process, really, no one with much of a brain would put themselves out there.  Too bad for us.

[ Parent ]
Competitive Districts ...
I believe that CD races ought to be statewide, but that probably requires a Constitutional amendment.  Right? Wrong?

There ought to be a basic political science curriculum that candidates have to pass before running ...

Constitutional Law 101.  Immigration policy (visas, borders, immigration, quotas, etc.) is set and controlled by the Federal government, not the Colorado state government.

Economics 101.  These things are not "free" and cost money (usually a LOT of money) (1) prosecuting and sending people to jail (as well as going to jail yourself); (2) earmarks; (3) going to war; (4) borrowing money to finance the government.

Campaign Tactics 101.  You probably won't get elected if you insult 20% of the voters in your state/district.  Don't campaign by telling voters that the referendum they just passed was wrong. Don't develop negative campaign ads from illegally obtained information.  Your office intern/assistant is probably not a good choice of campaign manager.  Telling potential voters they are damned by God and will go to Hell is probably not a winning strategy.

While You're in Office 101.  Don't offer to pass/introduce bills in exchange for money.  Don't ride on corporate jets.  That "free" trip to Scotland for you and your buddies to play golf being offered to you by the lobbyist -- not a good idea, turn it down.  Don't try to f$#! the pages and interns -- face it, you're too old and ugly to be attractive to anyone under 40, and very few people over 40 find you attractive.


My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government.  Thomas Jefferson


[ Parent ]
Knew the name, but couldn't place it
I googled her.  Then read how she was a "Blonde Babe for Bush" delegate to the national convention.  I think, based on her hair color alone, we should cut her some slack.
Thanks.
Here's a link I found.

http://www.cjrdaily....

"What you see is not what you get."  Another Republican shell game. 

"Collective fear stimulates herd instinct and tends to produce ferocity toward those who are not regarded as members of the herd." -Bertrand Russell

[ Parent ]
Well,
Perhaps this quote was taken out of context a bit (it's happened to me more then a few times) and to be sure when I first read this I didn't quite get the point of what she was trying to convey.  But really, it comes down to this...

Campaign on issues, introduce bills that reinforce your commitment to those issues, work your butt off lobbying for your party and/or constituents, and let the votes fall where they may.

Bills die.  Vote histories are a matter of public record. And having bills fail (we can all agree here) can be a political blessing when framed right. 

All Stephens did was say out loud what we all know.

(PS: Amy, don't trust reporters.  You should know better.) 

Have you seen "Thank you for Smoking"
you may disagree with the slant you have to love the game with the reporter.
[ Parent ]
Laughed Endlessly
and loved every bit of the movie. 
[ Parent ]
Yes, what WE all know.
The the average voter probably finds it disengenuous.  Plus, it gives the Democrats more hammers to throw at Republicans come election time.  She's a frosh and it's a forgiveable offense.  But when you're trying to win back the majority you have to be more careful.
[ Parent ]
That's all it has ever been to them is a game
While Democrats were passing X, Y and Z legislation, Republicans were only interested in playing politics.

When you consider it a game, there are winners and losers rather than win-wins for the greater good.

With Republicans it has all become nothing but a huge game, and they don't care who they hurt, as long as they think they have "won." Gone are the days when there were any statesmen in the party.

The voters know who it is that has their interests at heart, and it ain't the elephant in the livingroom.

The voters know the real terrorists, both domestic and foreign, are not left wingers, but righties.

The voters know which is the party of the corporatist oligarchs, obfuscating beaurocrats, Faux News apologistsas, and boardroom crooks, and they don't have a "D" after their name.

And that's why they voted the way they voted in November.

The folk movement of the 1960s was when it was not so important how much you made as it was what you had to say.

The great game continues
I am sure glad we have Romanoff.  A man of the people.  Not interested in games. 

Of course it would still make good legislation - the fact that Romanoff defends the committee who would intentionally kill a good bill...  Who is playing games here?

Andy?

Bueller??

Anybody?

[ Parent ]
Hmmmm...
Have you read the bill?

Thought of the consequences it might have on local law enforcement, and the associated costs?

Immigration is a federal issue, and they needd to bear the costs, and the burden of enforcement. It does no good to keep undocumented workers in jail for charges for which most defendants would be released on bail.

People who are within the borders of the United States are protected by the provisions in the Constitution (those that the Bush administration has not stripped from us in signing statements anyway), and that includes immigrants and visitors. I would say that the bill is highly likely, if it had passed, to eventually have been found unconstitutional. That would make it a waste of even more time and money, and in such circumstances, it is wise to kill, not partisan.

If you have some compelling arguments that would show it is constitutional and not a violation of the equal protection clause, I would like to see it.

Do you seriously entertain the notion of this being anything but a do-nothing wedge issue smokescreen, just like the abortion, flag-burning, flag display and other crap they have pulled on us, the voters, in the past to divert attention from draining the surplus, de-funding education, and any other of a myriad of examples of mis-governance while the Republicans were in charge?

The folk movement of the 1960s was when it was not so important how much you made as it was what you had to say.

[ Parent ]
Of course it's a game!
The Greeks were playing games like this before they started running around the Athenian peninsula trying to win medals and the rest of it.  Of course it was a dumb move by the frosh--letting it all out to the media--but Romo isn't going to fool anybody with is pretense to piety.
[ Parent ]
she's B-A-C-K!
  Welcome back, Ruthie.  Did you call state Rep. Buscher to express your appreciation for his support of the Republican alternative last week to Michael Garcia's bill to revise the Labor Peace Act?  Buscher was one of only three Dems to vote with the GOP. 
[ Parent ]
Here's a thought
What if each proposed bill had to first be posted on the legislative website and comments were allowed to be written against it.

Then after 2 working days if the legislator still wanted to introduce it - fine.

That way they would get a lot of feedback on the dumb ideas and maybe decide not to introruce that bill. Or they would re-write it.

???

Tom Tancredo Interview

bill are posted on line......along with the status sheets, calendars, committee hearing records, and the journals

[ Parent ]
My point was post before filing them
In other words they can post a bill they might introduce to get feedback beforehand.

Tom Tancredo Interview
[ Parent ]
Often bills are amended by the sponsor
between first reading (i.e. introduction) in a change introduced at the first hearing in committee, based on public and lobbyist feedback.  Typically these amendments are distributed a few days in advance of the hearing and adopted swiftly.
[ Parent ]
You forget...
Most of the public watches 30 minutes of Faux or other corporate media and think that they are weill informed. Most of the public doesn't give a damn, and to my right wing colleagues here on Pols, I say "Thank you for giving a damn!"

"Collective fear stimulates herd instinct and tends to produce ferocity toward those who are not regarded as members of the herd." -Bertrand Russell

[ Parent ]
Yeah, We're Really Not Even Trying | 55 comments
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