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Udall to Speak Out Against Escalation

by: Colorado Pols

Wed Feb 14, 2007 at 10:24:34 AM MST


UPDATE: Click below for the full text of Udall's comments on the House floor.

Colorado Rep. Mark Udall, also a candidate for U.S. Senate in 2008, will speak on the House floor today in favor of a resolution opposing President Bush's plan to send more troops to Iraq. According to a press release:


Udall will speak during a block of time reserved for members of the House Armed Services Committee, which is scheduled for 1:00 p.m. - 4:00 p.m. EST.  Udall is expected to speak for five minutes between 1:30 p.m. and 2:30 p.m. EST. The debate on the Iraq resolution is being aired on C-SPAN.
Colorado Pols :: Udall to Speak Out Against Escalation
Statement of
REPRESENTATIVE MARK UDALL
On
H. Con. Res. 63,
Disapproving of the decision of the President to deploy additional troops to Iraq
February 14, 2007

Madam Speaker, this is the first significant debate we have had on the war in Iraq since Congress passed the president's request for an authorization to invade Iraq more than four years ago.  And even though our debate today is on a largely symbolic question - a non-binding resolution disapproving the president's announced plan for moving additional troops to Iraq - I believe it ought to serve as the beginning of a deeper and more thoughtful debate about our long-term national interests in the Middle East, and Iraq.

If all we do is debate the wisdom of a surge, we will not keep faith with the American people, who rightly expect this new Congress to bring our costly involvement in the Iraq war to a close.

Nevertheless, I will support this resolution disapproving the president's call for additional troops in Iraq because it runs contrary to the wise advice of the Iraq Study Group (the Baker-Hamilton Commission), critical members of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and experienced military commanders like former Secretary of State, Colin Powell, on the best strategic approach in Iraq.  The president's plan calls for an infusion of additional soldiers - probably too few to have the desired outcome - and utilizing counterinsurgency tactics that are two years too late and that I believe will be ineffective in the context of the civil war that has emerged in Iraq. 

We are also expecting General David Petraeus and our troops to operate under a complicated joint command structure with Iraqi forces and political leaders that is unprecedented in our military history and undermines the "unity of command" rule in warfare.  And all this comes at a time when the death toll in Iraq is rising and the war continues to drain our national treasury, stretches our armed forces, and decreases - rather than enhances - our ability to wage an effective war against Islamic terrorism.  Even as we debate a "surge" in Iraq, we should not forget Afghanistan. We will win there if we redouble our efforts now.

I opposed the Bush Administration's decision to go to war in Iraq and I have never once regretted that vote. Today, we cannot move the clock back, but we can surely avoid making a bad situation worse.  We should not be scaling up our military mission in Iraq - we should be scaling back.  We need to make the U.S. military footprint lighter - not in order to hasten defeat or failure in Iraq, but to salvage a critical measure of security and stability in a region of the world that we can ill afford to abandon.

I say this as a Member of the Armed Services Committee who understands the pressures on our active duty and National Guard and reserve soldiers, including a lack of equipment and training, multiple or extended deployments, and limited time at home between deployments. To be successful, U.S. forces must be trained, equipped, and ready to quickly deploy worldwide. Shortfalls in personnel, equipment, or training increase the risk to our troops and to their mission. By all measurements, we are not in a position to sustain an escalation of troops.

But I don't believe the president's rationale for the "surge" makes sense, no matter our readiness levels. The just-released National Intelligence Estimate on Iraq agrees that the term "civil war" accurately describes aspects of the Iraq conflict and goes further in suggesting that the conflict may in fact, be more complicated and worse than a civil war.  Putting more American troops at risk in this kind of setting is not a recipe for victory; it is only a prescription for quagmire.  As a new Foreign Relations Council report notes, we bear responsibility for developments within Iraq, but are increasingly without the ability to shape those developments in a positive direction.

So what should be the way forward?  How should Congress respond?

I believe a policy aimed at escalating diplomatic and political efforts is preferable to one that continues to rely on our soldiers to carry the heavy burden of nation-building - a mission that soldiers are ill-equipped for without strong international support, particularly in the midst of civil war and sectarian violence. That is why I favor a reduction of military forces in Iraq, and a phased redeployment of our armed forces to border regions in places like Anbar province and the Kurdish areas of Iraq, which should give us some flexibility to respond militarily should circumstances require it, but will also increase the pressure on the Iraqi government to move toward political reconciliation and stability.

I do not believe an immediate withdrawal of American forces or setting a date certain for withdrawal makes sense, but neither is an open-ended commitment of American blood and treasure.

As bad as the situation is in Iraq, however, we must work to avoid a collapse in the region - not only because we have a moral obligation to the people of Iraq, but also because our national security has been so badly compromised by the Bush Administration's failures there. The President's decision to take the nation to war has made our country less safe.  We need to change course and chart a path that enhances our national security and sets the right priorities for the war on terrorism and struggle against extremists. 

To do this, I believe Congress should pass a resolution that embodies the main policy elements of the Baker-Hamilton Commission, including a call for stronger efforts at diplomacy in the region and internationally.  It is not in the interests of any nation to have Iraq descend into further civil war and chaos. As challenging as diplomacy is in the Middle East, I believe the sacrifice of our soldiers demands that we engage in serious regional talks, including talks with our adversaries, Syria and Iran.

Finally, I believe we must reach for bipartisanship in crafting our policy in Iraq.  The President misguidedly took us into war on the eve of a bitter national election. We must try hard not to compound this error by turning a debate on Iraq into a partisan game of one-upmanship where legitimate disagreement with the Administration's plan for escalation is called a betrayal of our troops or where resistance to immediate withdrawal is called war-mongering.

For my part, I intend to speak out loudly and often for a responsible withdrawal strategy in Iraq, but I will also offer proposals that are aimed at finding common ground.  I will be introducing legislation that looks beyond the "surge" and toward the necessary and inevitable contingency planning that will be needed if we are to avoid deeper and more catastrophic scenarios in Iraq and the region. 

Madam Speaker, the stakes in Iraq are very high.  The outcome in this region will have consequences for future generations that will long outlive those of us who are in Congress today.  Great leaders acknowledge mistakes, learn, and chart a new course.  For the sake of future generations and to keep faith with the generations that built America, let us be a nation of great leaders.

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What?
No funny pictures or nicknames?  The Statesman Udall stories are kind of bland.

Here's some material for his speech
"As for the Democrats in America, I tell them:
The people chose you due to your opposition to Bush's policy in Iraq, but it appears that you are marching with him to the same abyss, and it appears that you will take part with him in the defeat and certain failure, with God's permission. And the American people shall discover that you are all one side of the same coin of tyranny, criminality and failure; that failure which - by the grace of God - has neutralized the endeavors of the traitors who entered Kabul and Baghdad on the backs of American tanks, and has dashed their hopes as they see the Mujahideen come closer and closer to victory, which has led them to urgently appeal to America for help and implore it to continue to occupy their lands and raise the banners of the Cross over their heads."

Make sure you don't disappoint him.  He might withdraw his support for your party.

"Kevin and I will keep them out somehow -- even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is!"  


[ Parent ]
Does he always sound like this?
It has kind of a Martin Luther King-Baptist minister sing song effect. 

Is he tring to get the Dems to stop funding the war or is this just the lame waste of time resolution bs?


[ Parent ]
I don't agree it's a waste of time
It is difficult for Congress to get involved in running wars, and deliberately so.  They have the right to withhold funding, of course, but they want to be very careful about applying such a blunt instrument.  It makes perfect sense to me to start by allowing the reps to debate the escalation and vote on where they stand.

[ Parent ]
I disagree
Dueling resolutions is grand standing and a waste of time that could be used for something more useful.

The instrument might be blunt, but if the D's and R's who disagree with the plan to increase forces want to end it and the war, they should use it.  Game over, war over.  They should do what they think is right and let the chips fall instead of hiding behind worthless resolutions.


[ Parent ]
Good point.
The problem is, the D's don't have any idea how to govern.  They think the only thing they can do is pass a non binding resolution.  If you saw John Boehner absolutely pummel Steny Hoyer on Meet the Press on Sunday you know what I mean. 

[ Parent ]
It's a first step
This is a start to the Congress and President compromising on Iraq. Until this passes Bush thinks he can continue to have sole call on the war. Once this passes, he will have to start to negotiate.

And if he doesn't, then you will see Congress slowly and carefully take some real steps.

My recommendations in the 2010 primary?


[ Parent ]
Um...
The scary thing is that the text I posted is from Ayman Al-Zawahiri's latest rant released on Monday.  I'm not one to call into question the patriotism of others, and I think it has nothing to do with this story, but does it make any of the Dems here nervous that the enemy is pretty close to party line on the surge?


"Kevin and I will keep them out somehow -- even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is!"  

[ Parent ]
No Laughing matter Whipping Boy
Your hatred for American's equality, our right to dissent, our freedoms of speech, and our display of patriotism that scares you to the bone.

You are wrong in support of the President, but you too cannot admit mistakes. It is not arrogant, but ignorant, to follow a fool, which you have done.

To compare Democrats to Al-Zawahiri is un-American.

"Suddenly, it may be cool to be American again" - William J. Kole


[ Parent ]
Wow, That wasnt deceptive at all
Apparently you are one to call into question the patriotism of others, because you are doing just that; and you are applying it to an entire group of people.

My response: Nope. And I got to be honest, you trying to say that dems are unpatriotic or support terrorist is not only intellectually dishonest, but it is also extremely petty.


[ Parent ]
BS
I specifically said I am not calling anyone's patriotism into question.  I don't hate anyone other than the butchers that killed 3000 people on 9/11, one of which is urging the Dems to 'stay the course'regarding the troop surge.  Do you think that maybe we should do the opposite of what our enemy wants?

"Kevin and I will keep them out somehow -- even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is!"  

[ Parent ]
Re: BS
Do you think that maybe we should do the opposite of what our enemy wants?

First, Al Qaeda does not really operate in Iraq. There are operatives there, but overall it is the Iraqis citizens (and now, the Iranians) that we are battling.


Secondly, I would suspect that the enemy would know just that issue and would support the opposite of what they need. As it is, W/Cheney/Rumsfield has done more for Al Qaeda in 4 years, than OBL and all of the last 20 years of American incursion have done. All in all, W. is the best thing that could have occurred to Al Qaeda (probably not to OBL as he is almost certainly dead due to renal failure).



I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.

[ Parent ]
Surprise
I don't necessarily disagree with you regarding our handling of the GWOT, but I might fall on the other side of the fence as to what should have been done instead.

I respectfully disagree with you about Al Qaeda operating in Iraq, and we're battling many factions there - Sunni and Shia.  It's more a question of inspiration, ad I would still say that we should do the opposite of what our enemy wants us to do in almost any case. 

Any comment on Zawahiri referring directly to the Democrats?

"Kevin and I will keep them out somehow -- even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is!"  


[ Parent ]
Question of Inspiration?
Are you kidding me! Bush, and his envoys in Iraq have failed to inspire anyone in that region (or in this country for a matter of fact) of what should or must be done.

Republicans have played into the hands of the enemy with Iraq. The have also limited our freedoms as home and terrorized our own citizens and free men from the Arab world. They have given the enemy what they wanted. They have made Americans afraid of their own government. 

"Suddenly, it may be cool to be American again" - William J. Kole


[ Parent ]
Re: Surprise
Any comment on Zawahiri referring directly to the Democrats?

I did already. I think that any terrorist will know the effect of playing with our politics. I think that they are playing games with us. If we were to leave right now, Iraq would become part of a greater Iran and would immediately kill off ANY competition for leadership. Since Al Qaeda is Sunni and Iran is Shia, that means that Iran will knock them down. Zawahiri and all the other factions NEEDS us there in a diminished capacity  to have a common enemy.



I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.

[ Parent ]
What?
Yes you did call into question people's (read dems) patriotism. Its like you took a page out of Cavuto's playbook. In fact, two posts below this one you did it again in your response to windbourne. Do you think al-qaeda is going to be like "Well, shit, they increased troop strength. Guess we're through."? Are you going to throw fight them over there so not over here line at me next? This increase of troops is ineffectual, all it does is weaken, yes, weaken or national security.

[ Parent ]
Wrong
We disagree, but you are every bit as patriotic as I am.  We simply disagree, and I think the enemy urging the Dems to stop the troop surge should make them question if it's the correct strategy - I'M NOT IMPLYING THAT THEY ARE IN CAHOOTS WITH THE ENEMY. 

Stop throwing red herrings around and shrieking, will you?

"Kevin and I will keep them out somehow -- even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is!"  


[ Parent ]
Ok
We disagree. My main issue is the "but" statement. It negates what comes before it. Its like me saying "Im not saying you are wrong, but I am right" or "Im not saying that you are a racist, but you have large support from the KKK" (thats right marilyn, Im looking at you). Those statements imply that you are wrong and that you are a racist, even though I said Im not calling you a racist or wrong. Its not a red herring, because I am not trying to prove an argument, and the language you used is relevant to your final assertion.

Moving on. Why do you think that al-qaeda is saying this? I think it is pure propaganda. I think it is the briar patch. I think they are smart enough to know that bush will do what he wants to do, and they are baiting him. The surge will be a great recruiting tool.


[ Parent ]
...
I think they are on the ropes in Iraq, and the surge will stop most of the Shiite revenge attacks, that in turn ignite the Sunnis and encourage them to attack civilians.  Any stability in Iraq spells the end of AQ's effectiveness there.

Look at the effect the surge has had before it's even in full swing.  Where's Al-Sadr?

"Kevin and I will keep them out somehow -- even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is!"  


[ Parent ]
Al-Sadr
He's hanging out in Ayatollah Khomenei's former house, so that when the U.S. leaves, he comes back in triumph and the inter-necine ethnic & religious bloodshed escalates to a Darfurian level.

[ Parent ]
I disagree
First of all, I dont think that there is such a thing as ropes when it comes to terrorism. There is no Normandy or Gettysburg with terrorism. The surge is not all at once, either, which is why I think it will be ineffectual. On top of that, we have had this amount of troops in Iraq before, and it did nothing. Combine that with the deterioration of our equipment and that leaves us in a pretty sore spot.

I think there is too much pent up aggression between the Sunni and Shia in Iraq to reasonably expect that there will be some sort of truce. Plus, the Iraqi constitution utilizes sharia law, so Iraqis can kiss any real progressive freedom good bye. It has already been mentioned, but al-qaeda does not have a strong foothold in Iraq. I dont think they have ever been really strong in Iraq.

Correlation does not equal causation. Al-Sadr is in Iran, but he still has the largest, cohesive, loyal, and well trained militia, and that can not be discounted. Actually, one the reasons Iraq has a functioning government is because Sadr has not completely shit all over it.


[ Parent ]
Hi Mr. Toodles
JuanCole.com has stated today no one knows where Al-Sadr is.

"I can tolerate chaos, I'm just not sure chaos can tolerate me" Dylan

[ Parent ]
Damn
Well that will teach me to actually read the newspaper in the morning rahter than glance at the headlines.

[ Parent ]
We can
swear on this site. Hot damn! :-)

"I can tolerate chaos, I'm just not sure chaos can tolerate me" Dylan

[ Parent ]
Where do you get YOUR news from?
Oh....never mind.

"Collective fear stimulates herd instinct and tends to produce ferocity toward those who are not regarded as members of the herd." -Bertrand Russell


[ Parent ]
Why?
Reagan, Poppa Bush, and W have all said things that Mussolini and Hitler said in earlier time. Does that make them right wing fascist?

But, to be honest, I recognized the post as where it came from. Somehow, I doubt that Udal would say those things.

I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.

[ Parent ]
No kidding
I was lamenting the fact that Udall (who I actually really like and respect) might say things along the lines of our enemy.  If a troop surge angers the enemy, shouldn't we do a larger surge?

"Kevin and I will keep them out somehow -- even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is!"  

[ Parent ]
Don't flip on this
And if the enemy hates our freedsom, should the Republicans have taken away our rights as they did with the Patriot Act?

"Suddenly, it may be cool to be American again" - William J. Kole

[ Parent ]
Flip this
I'm not spouting talking points.  Did I say that anyone hated our freedoms?  Stop trying to avoid my initial question.  Does it make you nervous that the enemy is so close to the Democratic party's official position on the troop surge?

"Kevin and I will keep them out somehow -- even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is!"  

[ Parent ]
Wrong
What makes me nervous is people like you spouting these talking points to make the Democratic Party sound like the enemy.

Your contempt for our freedoms digusts me.

"Suddenly, it may be cool to be American again" - William J. Kole


[ Parent ]
HAHAHA
Are you saying that "I hate you for your freedoms?"  What a dumb thing that would be to say...

You can't answer my original question, so you have to fall back to the standard drivel.  Where in anything I posted did I say I have contempt for freedom?  I said I disagree with the anti-surge movement by the dems, but that they are as patriotic as I am.  Seriously, stop being so silly and debate.

"Kevin and I will keep them out somehow -- even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is!"  


[ Parent ]
Seriously.
By trying to paint Democrats as being the enemy. That is not a llaughing matter. That's sad that all you can do is sit back, smuggly, and think that Democrats would pander to the enemy.

How dare you.

"Suddenly, it may be cool to be American again" - William J. Kole


[ Parent ]
Oh, stop
How many times in this thread have I reiterated that the Dems are every bit as patriotic as I am?

They're not pandering to the enemy, I just think they are making an error in judgment.

Your false indignation is a great dodge, but it's weak.  Come on - engage and stop crying and flinging talking point bs.

"Kevin and I will keep them out somehow -- even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is!"  


[ Parent ]
Im not pandering to you.
Im not crying or flinging talking points. I think it's wrong of you to try and score points on this subject. It's an abuse, and and disgrace to our troops in battle to compare the speech of one of the enemy with one of our own elected Representatives in the US.

It's Wrong.

"Suddenly, it may be cool to be American again" - William J. Kole


[ Parent ]
Don't lecture me
about our troops.  You have no defense for the fact that you are supporting the same policy as an Al Qaeda terrorist, so you have to resort to every silly off-topic moveon.org whine.

I'm betting that only one of us is a veteran.

Why don't you provide some sort of defense for your point of view rather than petty ad hominem attacks?

"Kevin and I will keep them out somehow -- even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is!"  


[ Parent ]
You're right
You don't need a lecture. You need a spanking, boy.

"I can tolerate chaos, I'm just not sure chaos can tolerate me" Dylan

[ Parent ]
wow
Great post.  Brilliant. really.

I'd love to meet you sometime.  Maybe you can give me that spanking.

"Kevin and I will keep them out somehow -- even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is!"  


[ Parent ]
You wouldn't
recognize brilliant if it slapped you on the ass.

"I can tolerate chaos, I'm just not sure chaos can tolerate me" Dylan

[ Parent ]
...
I'm just glad you're able to debate the issues rather than simply throwing silly insults around.  Good work.

"Kevin and I will keep them out somehow -- even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is!"  

[ Parent ]
It's our duty to compare speeches
We should criticall evaluate the speeches of our representatives and compare them to those of both our friends and enemies. Otherwise we are just sheep following the direction of the leaders and are no longer a democracy.

My recommendations in the 2010 primary?

[ Parent ]
Our Enemy
"Our Enemy" is ecstatic over a troop surge!  They want us to be in Iraq longer, to lose more men, to have more injured, to spend more money, to bankrupt our country more, because if/when we finally leave, it'll hurt even more, since we won't have any more success than if the surge didn't happen.  They love us there because it makes them more relevant.  If/when we leave Iraq, and "our enemy" blows up busloads of people, no one in this country will care, but I assure you, we care NOW, while we're there!

[ Parent ]
Well, don't I feel like a dumbass
I thought it sounded weird, my apologies to Martin Luther King and Baptist ministers everywhere.

[ Parent ]
Good for Udall
Has anyone been watching?  How many Republicans have crossed over?  How many Dems?

It's looking great if you're hot for defeat!
The Democratic caucus is solidly behind it with few, if any, crossovers.  The GOP caucus may lose up to 20, though it looks more and more likely it will be less than 10.  In the end it will probably pass by around 40 votes.

[ Parent ]
Non-binding Udall
Nice, Mark.  Way to follow San Fran Nan off the edge of the cliff.  Cut off the funding?  Nope.  Debate endlessly a non-binding resolution scolding the president's plan?  Sign him up.  I'm sure the terrorists overseas don't find ANY comfort in seeing members of the US Congress trying to micromanage this war.  Thanks for the suggestion, Mark.  Let's run this war by committee. 

Dusty -
I imagine that you are a small government, lower taxes type of Republican.  How much money are you willing to spend on Iraq.  The current cost to U.S. tax payers is:  $336,398,400,123.00.  What is your limit? 

[ Parent ]
Actually, no.
Not a republican. However, I understand your point on the money we've spent in Iraq.  You're right, CrazyOkie.  We should have left Saddam Hussein in power.  He probably would have left us alone, right? 

[ Parent ]
In a word, yes.
Hussein was far more focused on the Shiia in Iran than he was Uncle Sam.

[ Parent ]
Tell that to George HW


[ Parent ]
I bet
George HW aleady knows that. I bet that is why we didnt topple him in 1991.

[ Parent ]
Right you are
That, and the fact that, as Dick Cheney said at the time, doing so would lead us into a quagmire.  God, how I've come to miss Bush I.  He said Hussein could be controlled by sanctions, and he was proven right.

[ Parent ]
Yes
Saddam Hussein did not have any WMDs - was not responsible for 9/11.  So, why have we spent +336 billion invading and rebuilding Iraq?  We are now in the middle of a civil war.  Could it be any worse?  It's time to determine an exit strategy - not a surge strategy.

[ Parent ]
It will come back to haunt him.
This sort of hoo-ha does not play well in Colorado and I'm just guessing here, but I imagine every single word Udall says on the floor will be lowlighted by GOP Senate campaign here.


[ Parent ]
Command with no Strategy
What did the Republicans do over the course of 4 straight years in Iraq? They allowed the death of over 3,000 Americans, over 20,000 wounded in action and the death over 600,000 Iraqi's.

Americans will not stand to stay that course. Our Command in Chief has failed. He has no idea what is going in Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, Russia, N. Korea or any other area of terror. He just wants to keep throwing our Friends, our Sons, our Fathers into a civil war; no a killing field.

"Suddenly, it may be cool to be American again" - William J. Kole


[ Parent ]
Is that...
A string section playing in the background for your baseless, inaccurate diatribe?

Do you mean a killing field similar to the one created when we left SE Asia so they could work it out on their own? 

Hmmmm..

"Kevin and I will keep them out somehow -- even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is!"  


[ Parent ]
It's not our job to stop every civil war
First off, if two parties are determined to have a civil war - they are going to have one. Second, should we die to stop others from going to war on each other if both parties want to fight?

We cannot make the rest of the world like an upper middle class American suburb.

My recommendations in the 2010 primary?


[ Parent ]
yes, but
1.3 million teachers, librarians, anyone that wore glasses for crying out loud were butchered by Pol Pot when we left them to their own suburbia.  Is this what you're willing to leave Iraq to?  I agree it's a mess, but I don't think it's best to do anything but try to win and protect that government.

Thank you for actually responding to the post rather than freaking out and free associating.

"Kevin and I will keep them out somehow -- even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is!"  


[ Parent ]
Left Cambodia? We were never officially there
We bombed it but we never had substantial troops in Cambodia. Cambodia was collateral damage from our disaster in Vietnam.

As to should we have done something about Cambodia - if we could have - Yes. Same with Rawanda, Bosnia, etc. But the trick is to figure out we can do effectively and only for horrible situations.

We tried to help in Somalia when it was that bad - and the bottom line was we couldn't. So it's also knowing when it makes sense.

My recommendations in the 2010 primary?


[ Parent ]
This is shocking...
Macchiato Mark, a liberal Democrat from Boulder, is supporting a defeatist, white-flag resolution that MEANS ABOSLUTELY NOTHING????

Stunning!

Sweet Jesus, Pols, why are you wasting your time posting this?  Is this supposed to demonstrate Udall's leadership?  Because I can tell you that I'm quite sure that this sort of junk will come back to hurt, not help, Democrats like Udall running in red states...or blues states.  Americans won't go for defeat unless all options have been exhausted.  The President and our military leadership has provided a solution to a problem, it's morally incumbent upon ALL leaders in Washington to support our troops.

I hope McInnis and Schaffer both come out strongly in support of victory.  It will put them that much closer to the Senate in 2008. 


Doctor -
I know you are a small government, lower taxes type of Republican.  How much money are you willing to spend in Iraq.  The current cost to U.S. tax payers is now:  $336,399,137,123.00.  What is your limit? 

[ Parent ]
Fair question...
When it comes to preserving liberty and keeping America safe, I have no limit.  I'd be fine with raising taxes to pay for this war, though there are other options still to be exhausted.  Just like money is no impediment when your child is ill or in trouble, money is no impediment to national security.  You do what it takes and adjust fiscally as necessary. 

[ Parent ]
Dr......
I think you're speaking over CrazyOkie's head.  The dollar amount he tracked down on MoveOn.org's website is much more politically convenient than thinking through what sort of impact a democracy in Iraq would have on our national security. 

[ Parent ]
Alternatives
Here's one:  let's spend the money on something that will actually make American more secure?  How can you still believe America was made more secure by invading about the only Arab country which was not lending support to Al Qaeda?  They were in Afghanistan, remember - the country the Taliban is successfully moving back into because we have so many resources tied up in Iraq we can't secure its borders?  Let's ask the generals how many more brigades they want in Afghanistan instead of telling them to find a way to deploy more in Iraq.

[ Parent ]
What if we had spent $400 B (don't forget interest to the Chinese)
On port security, an air force than can intercept lumbering passenger planes on death runs, aid to the average Arab citizen instead of helping the Arab plutocracy, and so on?  All we have is a destabilized world, mountains of debt, and an America that our Founding Fathers would not recognize.

"Collective fear stimulates herd instinct and tends to produce ferocity toward those who are not regarded as members of the herd." -Bertrand Russell


[ Parent ]
Necessary?
But that is not what this failed commander in chief has done. He has done the opposite, by putting our troops into battle without the needed protection. He has cut taxes, drove our country into an enermous debt, and allowed Billions to be stolen by contractors who have left the country with suitcases full of cash.

How do you explain such a disaster? Is your only answer to throw more money and soldiers at the problem? That is exactly what Bush has done. He hasn't learned from his own failed policies, that he continues down the same path.

I think Bush let the "necessary" budget go out the windo back in 2003 when he invaded Iraq with no exit strategy.

"Suddenly, it may be cool to be American again" - William J. Kole


[ Parent ]
YOU have no limit?
Now you are really starting to sound like Bush and Lambourne, confusing outcome with strategy.  Of course you have a limit.  In fact, since you so support this war, PLEASE put a second on your house, max out your credit cards, borrow some coin from the loan sharks (besides the credit card ones)and write a check to the treasury.

Or me. 

To think that we are going bankrupt - hell, we are! - both morally and fiscally for something so useless and destructive makes me ill. 

Say, do you pray to Jesus for his help in kicking Iraqi ass? 

"Collective fear stimulates herd instinct and tends to produce ferocity toward those who are not regarded as members of the herd." -Bertrand Russell


[ Parent ]
Victory?
Victory over what?  The "terrorists"?  You mean the Sunni or the Shia?  You guys could not find "victory" if it was shoved up your arse with a flashlight.

"Thousands are sailing, across the western ocean, to a land of opportunity, that some of them will never see . . ."

- The Pogues


[ Parent ]
Perhaps you should...
...rephrase that?

You make it sound like someone used a flashlight to do the initial ramming.  I assure you that the Bush Administration isn't that enlightened.

"I have come to the conclusion that the making of laws is like the making of sausages-the less you know about the process the more you respect the result."  -- Anonymous IL State Rep. circa 1878


[ Parent ]
Sounds mighty gay to me...
Best get Ted.....

"Collective fear stimulates herd instinct and tends to produce ferocity toward those who are not regarded as members of the herd." -Bertrand Russell


[ Parent ]
Interesting wording in his speech
I know what Udall meant but if you look at the actual text of

Nevertheless, I will support this resolution disapproving the president's call for additional troops in Iraq because it runs contrary to the wise advice of the Iraq Study Group (the Baker-Hamilton Commission), ...

It sounds like he is supporting the resolution because the resolution runs counter to what everyone recomended to Bush.

My recommendations in the 2010 primary?


Lot's of Greenhouse Gas Being Spent About Not Much
110th CONGRESS

1st Session

H. CON. RES. 63
Disapproving of the decision of the President announced on January 10, 2007, to deploy more than 20,000 additional United States combat troops to Iraq.

IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

February 12, 2007
Mr. SKELTON (for himself, Mr. LANTOS, and Mr. JONES of North Carolina) submitted the following concurrent resolution; which was referred to the Committee on Armed Services, and in addition to the Committee on Foreign Affairs, for a period to be subsequently determined by the Speaker, in each case for consideration of such provisions as fall within the jurisdiction of the committee concerned

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CONCURRENT RESOLUTION
Disapproving of the decision of the President announced on January 10, 2007, to deploy more than 20,000 additional United States combat troops to Iraq.

Resolved by the House of Representatives (the Senate concurring), That--

(1) Congress and the American people will continue to support and protect the members of the United States Armed Forces who are serving or who have served bravely and honorably in Iraq; and

(2) Congress disapproves of the decision of President George W. Bush announced on January 10, 2007, to deploy more than 20,000 additional United States combat troops to Iraq.
END

THOMAS Home | Contact | Accessibility | Legal | USA.gov
 


Mr. Udall
Don't be afraid. We need clear voices of conscience for progressive ideas to lead this great country forward and realize its historical potential.

By the way, what is your handle here on Copols?:-)

"I can tolerate chaos, I'm just not sure chaos can tolerate me" Dylan


Tow the party line...
I respect the Dems for sticking with their ultra libral guy Udall, way to tow the party line here.  So, I need to do the same...standing on the House floor and spewing anti-American rhetoric against the President is embarrassing to me as a Coloradoan. We need more Wayne Allards of the world to tow the party line...back to the right.

Is this a serious post or sarcasm?
I'm assuming sarcasm but maybe you actually mean this???

My recommendations in the 2010 primary?

[ Parent ]
That's "toe", BTW.
Gives me a clue how good you are at thinking...

"Collective fear stimulates herd instinct and tends to produce ferocity toward those who are not regarded as members of the herd." -Bertrand Russell


[ Parent ]
Is it?
Ive always wondered about this. On one hand, "tow" seems adequate, because your are helping to move the party line along. On the other hand, "toe" seems adequate because they are standing on, or with, the party line.

[ Parent ]
It's like that DUI test...
can you toe the line? 

"Collective fear stimulates herd instinct and tends to produce ferocity toward those who are not regarded as members of the herd." -Bertrand Russell


[ Parent ]
Serious...
As a heart attack...

But what about our being a Democracy?
If all we have is Allards then we no longer have a legislative branch, we just have a rubber stamp for the executive.

And if we cannot disagree with the President, then we are no longer a Democracy. We then become a dictatorship.

My recommendations in the 2010 primary?


[ Parent ]
Dr. Dobson spouts islamofacist talking points
Have you noticed how FOTF and other such 'christian' groups often spout off about how decadent western values are destroying our nation, and that we need to return to (their own interpretations of) Biblical law???

Sounds an awful lot like the 'enemy.'  Shouldn't right wingnuts be worried that their rhetoric and talking points sound a lot like OBL?


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