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Schultheis' Religion in School Bill Dies

by: Colorado Pols

Thu Feb 15, 2007 at 11:25:18 AM MST


Republican Sen. Dave Schultheis, who never met a foot he didn't like to stick in his craw, lost another battle at the legislature yesterday when his religion in schools bill was killed. As Colorado Confidential reports:

In the end it didn't matter how earnestly state Sen. Dave Schultheis claimed that his proposed bill, to require a "Religious Bill of Rights" be posted in every Colorado public school and handed out to every high school student - and which would let teachers off the hook from teaching stuff they didn't want to teach - wasn't actually anything "new."

It likewise mattered little how many Founding Fathers Schultheis could quote at one sitting.

His Senate Bill 138, the "Religious Bill of Rights," was shelved indefinitely on Wednesday in the State, Veterans & Military Affairs Committee on a 3-2 party line vote. But not before a multitude of testimonials suggested that public schools are swarming with heathens and are places where religion - in every case specified, Christianity - is under heavy artillery attack.

"Religious liberties are crucial to the future of our country," Schultheis said, alternately quoting Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, John Adams and Abraham Lincoln. "In order to have morals you have to have virtue, and to have virtue you have to have religion."

Among other reasons the Religious Bill of Rights is needed, Schultheis said, was to help ward off the ACLU, which he said has been "intimidating" public schools "for years." As a result, massive Christian law firms have formed and are fighting back - including the Alliance Defense Fund, the Liberty Council and the American Center for Law and Justice. But that, said Schultheis, a Republican from Colorado Springs, isn't enough.

Click below for the press release from the Senate Republicans...
Colorado Pols :: Schultheis' Religion in School Bill Dies
Sen. Dave Schultheis, R-Colorado Springs, responded to the Democrat rejection today of Senate Bill 138, which would have ensured that Colorado public schools visibly post and distribute a Religious Bill of Rights each year to students, parents and guardians and all school faculty and employees.

The bill, authored by Schultheis, was expected to establish a Colorado Religious Bill of Rights for all public school systems. It failed today on a 3-2 party-line vote in the State, Veterans and Military Affairs Committee.

"The Legislature should have more regard for religious liberties in our public school systems," said Schultheis. "Our schools are trampling on First Amendment issues, and it's about time, together, we stand up for religious rights."

SB-138 would also have provided "opt-out" provisions for students or teachers when class content or course materials conflict with an individual's religious beliefs.

"Our religious liberties bestowed by our Creator are guaranteed to students, faculty and staff, in accordance with the First Amendment of the Constitution," Schultheis said.

SB-138 would have addressed four additional factors:

-Increasing the tolerance of religious beliefs.
-Prohibiting the teaching of subjects that are contrary to strong religious beliefs.
-Clarifying the misunderstanding of "Separation of Church and State."
-Addressing the failure of Higher Education to allow religious-rights issues in teacher certification programs.

"This bill counters the growing intimidation students, teachers and workers face when standing up for their religious beliefs within the public-school system," added Schultheis.
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Schultheis' Religion in School Bill Dies | 69 comments
Mike Miles
Pols is trying to bury it, but did you all see under the Thursday Open Thread that Mike Miles is considering getting in the 08 senate race?  Interesting...
Trying to bury it?
It's not news. Mike Miles is always talking about running for something. The last thing he was thinking about was CD-2. Wake us up when he actually runs.
[ Parent ]
Mikes a nice guy but if he thinks he is
taking Udall on and winning the Democratic nomination, he doesn't deserve to be in Colorado Politics
[ Parent ]
reminds me of the '98 Dem state assembly.......
I was a delegate and recall Dottie Lamm blowing away Gil Romero in name recognition, but it was close call as to who was left and who was lefter.......
[ Parent ]
Mike
I hope he does run again so he can get stomped again.
[ Parent ]
I'm a rabid Mike Miles fan...
But I sure agree with you!

"Collective fear stimulates herd instinct and tends to produce ferocity toward those who are not regarded as members of the herd." -Bertrand Russell

[ Parent ]
Is this so important
That you need to hijack another thread?  It's perfectly visible in the Open Thread.  If you feel it really needs more exposure, write a diary.

Don't try to take over an otherwise useful (or painful) thread.

"I have come to the conclusion that the making of laws is like the making of sausages-the less you know about the process the more you respect the result."  -- Anonymous IL State Rep. circa 1878

[ Parent ]
Thank God (and no pun intended)

Ban all teaching
"-Prohibiting the teaching of subjects that are contrary to strong religious beliefs."

Wow.  That's a bit broad.  Are there not strongly held beliefs that we should not be involved in politics?  (Jehova's Witness); that it's better to remain celibate than to marry (Paul); that we shouldn't eat pork (Muslim)?  How about the strong belief that the earth is only 6-10,000 years old? 

I thought the GOP was for LESS government intrusion...  Oh wait, that was grandaddy's GOP.

Good grief....
there are "strong religious beliefs" that women should not be educated.  Do Republicans think we have to honor that too?

"I've learned a lot of lessons being involved in politics. I also believe that when you are attacked, you have to deck your opponents." -- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-NY)
[ Parent ]
Mr. Rogers Says
"Can you spell cognitive dissonance?"

(May he RIP!)

"Collective fear stimulates herd instinct and tends to produce ferocity toward those who are not regarded as members of the herd." -Bertrand Russell

[ Parent ]
Do Republicans think we have to honor that too?
According to some Republicans (and the Taliban), we should honor that strong religious belief, too. 
[ Parent ]
Yes!
No put on your jesus saves pin!

"Suddenly, it may be cool to be American again" - William J. Kole
[ Parent ]
I'm agnostic
but that pin is probably better than one that says "wipe that white stuff off your chin"

NoBama .... NoBamaCare either
[ Parent ]
Reward for Religious lawyers
If you take a look at the bills supports who came to testify, you can see why Schulthies included the provision to file lawsuits against teachers, schools, et al.

He's rewarding his lawyer friends. I guess the right has been talking out both sides of the mouth again.

"Suddenly, it may be cool to be American again" - William J. Kole

[ Parent ]
Why does the far right desire ignorance?
It's interesting - the far left tends to push hardest for additional things we should teach. The far right tends to push hardest for things we should remain ignorant of.

It's not like schools are going to overcome the fundamental values parents instill in their kids. This is just exposing the kids to other ideas.

Two of my kids had a strong conservative as their US history teacher at Fairview. At parent teach night I would always tell him that while he was wrong - I really appreciated that my kids would get a strong passionate argument from the Republican side.

Then we would argue about the causes of the civil war as my wife would try and get me to move on to the next teacher. (Hint - the cause was slavery.)

- dave

My recommendations in the 2010 primary?

[ Parent ]
I am afraid that
Schultheis and his like are the ones who do not understand and need clarification on the concept of seperation of church and state.
Bill of Rights
Now if Sen. Schultheis wanted to mandate posting of the Constitutional Bill of Rights, I'd be VERY impressed!
I wouldn't count on seeing that happen.......
  Unless it is the new revised and abridged edition which consists of the free exercise clause of the First Amendment, the right to petition for redress of grievances clause as modified by the K St. Project and Jack Abramoff's lobbying techniques, and finally of course, that all important Second Amendment. 
  That's all folks.......
[ Parent ]
Values?
Let's take a look at the GOP Core Values, according to Schulthies, Renfroe and Mitchell.

We need to punish victims of rape, force christianity into public schools, fill up our prisons by giving every breathing person a gun, outlaw workers rights, give business tax breaks for hiring illegals, and put health care money into the pockets of contractors, and deny opportunities for higher education by revoking scholarships and cutting higher ed fund when tuition increases.

Does that sound like the type of state any sane person would want to live in?

"Suddenly, it may be cool to be American again" - William J. Kole

Rock On!


"I can tolerate chaos, I'm just not sure chaos can tolerate me" Dylan
[ Parent ]
I thought liberals were hot for tolerance!
This sort of bill seems to be right up your alley: inclusive, tolerant, pluralistic, multicultural, and the rest of it.  So why the heated opposition?  Wait.  Wait.  Don't tell me.  Ah yes!  Because you take any opportunity you get to stick it to the Jesus Freaks.  The fact is that the cultural institutions in America, dominated by the Left, are openly hostile to people of faith.  And because most Americans are Christians and devoutly so, they don't take you people seriously.  Hollywood and our schools are a joke and everyone knows it.

Cheers!

Liberals.........
The reason that joke of a radio station, 760 AM, is on the verge of going tits up.
People realize that Progressive really means "progressing towards socialism".

NoBama .... NoBamaCare either
[ Parent ]
And your source is??????
I"ve not heard of any financial problems over at Clear Channel. 

"Collective fear stimulates herd instinct and tends to produce ferocity toward those who are not regarded as members of the herd." -Bertrand Russell

[ Parent ]
Air America according
to google searches filed for bankruptcy on 10/13/2006 Chapter 11

NoBama .... NoBamaCare either
[ Parent ]
Oh, Jeez...
Air America is not 760 AM. 

Air America has a buyer and they are 100% operational and it appears that they will continue to do so.

760 AM is not Air America. 

"Collective fear stimulates herd instinct and tends to produce ferocity toward those who are not regarded as members of the herd." -Bertrand Russell

[ Parent ]
Also...
KKZN appears to be adding to its locally-produced content (e.g., local newscasts, traffic, and phone-in shows besides Jay Marvin). This would hardly be the case if they were not making money.
[ Parent ]
Same thing, different name
They still have next to zero listeners. Even mister funny pants Al left that sinking losing ship.

Besides, if programs like the shit 760 pushes is so popular, why are there not a multitude more of them out there?
Funny, I don't know of any more in Colorado.
I do know Rush is very popular, and so is Boyles, Rosen, even Dr Laura. So many that I can't even name them all.
Why is that?

NoBama .... NoBamaCare either

[ Parent ]
Pull your head outta the bucket for some breath, Gecko....
No, 760 is not the same as Air America.  760 is a station owned by Clear Channel.  Air America is a corporation that producesw liberal programming for radio stations to buy.  There, was that complicated?  760 broadcasts Ed Schultz, which is not Air America, and Jay Marvin, a local personality. 

Rush's popularity plateued in many or most markets several years ago.  Bill O'Shilly left radio years ago, he couldn't compete with the then-new liberal radio.  In most markets the Thom Hartmann Show walks all over Rush, Thom will now be taking the place of Al Franken on Air America.

The Right Wingers created talk radio, they have years and years of exposure.  They have so many "hosts" out there you can't keep track.  Liberal talk radio is relatively new and it is growing like, well, RW talk radio did years ago.  Head to head, in almost every market, the Liberal version is walking all over the Cons.

Don't confuse a bad business model at Air America with a failure to find listeners. 

"Collective fear stimulates herd instinct and tends to produce ferocity toward those who are not regarded as members of the herd." -Bertrand Russell

[ Parent ]
So why did Rush...
...lose so much money for the first few years?  Right-wing radio was propped up during its formative years at least as much as Air America has been.

As to their being more than just Air America, Ed Schultz airs from 1-4pm on 760; he's from the Jones Radio Network, which is a profitable liberal network (other acts include Stephanie Miller, Neil Boortz, and Bill Press).

I expect Air America is coming to its senses; it's had a lot more of a typical advertising model lately, and while it's more annoying to listen to the ads, they pay the bills.  The changeup with Al leaving for a Senate run and Thom Hartmann coming in to replace him is a strong and positive change.  You might just like Thom's show, Gecko - give him a listen.

"I have come to the conclusion that the making of laws is like the making of sausages-the less you know about the process the more you respect the result."  -- Anonymous IL State Rep. circa 1878

[ Parent ]
Do you know what socialism means?
Im serious.
[ Parent ]
Socialism: redistribution of wealth.
Take from those that earned their money and give to those that are too lazy to work.
Hence most liberal SOCIAL programs.

NoBama .... NoBamaCare either
[ Parent ]
So...
Because we have social programs we are becoming a socialist country, or at least that is what liberals want? What then does that have to do with Air America going tits up?

Dont forget to decline your social security and medicare when you reach retirement age.

[ Parent ]
Not even close.
Here's a chance to learn something:

http://www.google.co...

Where governments own "means of production"'s, it's because private enterprise has failed the people.  Think TVA, rural electrification, and rural electric co-ops.  Longmont owns the electric system in town because everyone was fed up with the private purveyors way back about 1910. 

Los Angeles' Dept of Power and Water brings both the the citizens at less cost than what the private companies do.  In fact, during the manufactureed electric "crisis" in California, the DPW just cruised along like nothing was happening.  Seems that those bureaucrats did a better job working delivery contracts and the futures markets than PG&E, for instance. 

"Collective fear stimulates herd instinct and tends to produce ferocity toward those who are not regarded as members of the herd." -Bertrand Russell

[ Parent ]
Please don't use DPW as an example
for public power. They are an inefficient as any investor owned - believe me I know the staff. The were saved because they didn't have CPUC regulation - PG&E didn't do a better job at the futures market because they were prohibited by CPUC reg from buying in the forwards market before the bankruptcy.
[ Parent ]
Thanks for those notes
Probably what you mention contributed to the "crisis", but probably not all, either.  I lived in LA for 12 years and found DPW as good as and as bad as most private utilities.  But the cost per KW/hr was significantly less; no taxes to pay and no shareholders to profit.

"Collective fear stimulates herd instinct and tends to produce ferocity toward those who are not regarded as members of the herd." -Bertrand Russell

[ Parent ]
How far are you willing to Socialize?
Here's a question for you, Gecko:

Are you completely opposed to Socialism, or are you somewhere further left along the Economic scale?  Let's start at the top - do you support:

Public maintenance of records?
Public police protection?
Public fire protection?
Public regulation of pollutants and other hazards?
Public regulation of building codes?
Public roads?
Public incarceration and rehabilitation?
Public regulation of utilities?
Public schools?
Public promotion (of, say tourism or business opportunities)?
Public health regulation (i.e. immunization requirements)?
Public monopoly grants for utilities?
Public regulation of business/employee relationships/safety?
Public job search / job retraining for the unemployed?
Public services for victims of crime or disaster?
Public saftey net services (unemployment, Social Security)?
Progressive tax system?
Public utilities?
Public healthcare?
[really big gap here]
Partial public ownership of industry?
Public ownership of industry?
Abolishment of money and other forms of credit?

Are you not, in part, a Socialist too?  Just as I support a position between the Communist and Laissez-faire absolutes, aren't you, too a product of compromise along those lines?

"I have come to the conclusion that the making of laws is like the making of sausages-the less you know about the process the more you respect the result."  -- Anonymous IL State Rep. circa 1878

[ Parent ]
good post pheonix!

[ Parent ]
Ok
no, yes, yes, no, yes, yes, yes/no, no, no, big no, no, no, no, fuck no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, yes.

NoBama .... NoBamaCare either
[ Parent ]
Gecko - no public protection of pollutants
but plice protection. So, I assume you would repeal all public nuisance laws, yes?
[ Parent ]
Now explain your positions


"I can tolerate chaos, I'm just not sure chaos can tolerate me" Dylan
[ Parent ]
Not public record keeping???????????
That's like real estate records, car titles, etc.  YOu are against that?

I would like to add a major subcomponent of "health."  Do you ever reflect on how you can go into almost any of the millions of restaurants in America, eat a meal, and not get sick?  That's due to your taxes paying for inspectors enforcing laws passed by legislatures. 

"Collective fear stimulates herd instinct and tends to produce ferocity toward those who are not regarded as members of the herd." -Bertrand Russell

[ Parent ]
Eliminates that whole pesky "private property" question
[ Parent ]
I'm assuming you're joking about the last...
Are you really in favor of corporate scrip and the abolishment of the Federal Reserve?  If so, you're more of a Capitalist Libertarian than I thought.

One other question: why are you for regulation of building codes if you're against any kind of pollution or health regulations?

"I have come to the conclusion that the making of laws is like the making of sausages-the less you know about the process the more you respect the result."  -- Anonymous IL State Rep. circa 1878

[ Parent ]
You miss the point PR
I pay my taxes just like everyone else, but I happen to think we need LESS social programs, not MORE.
That is our difference.
You folks will not rest until every fucking nickle that all of us poor smucks makes goes straight to the black hole in DC. To be re-distributed "for the common good".

Fuck that

NoBama .... NoBamaCare either

[ Parent ]
So, whatever the level is, less is better?
Will you volunteer to scrape the frozen old folks outta the gutters in the morning because they couldn't pay their gas bills?  Are you cooking meals and taking them to shut-ins?  Do you want poor folk spreading disease that will effect you? What if you lose your job and the CS area can't absorb the 75? glaziers suddenly looking for work and now competing with each other?  Why not get unemployment; your employer has been paying YOUR wages into if for 25 years, right?

Every society has had social programs.  They might be as simple as a tribal unit taking care of each other, or as complex as a modern nation doing the same.  But the purpose is the same. 

To not try to take care of each other is as base and selfish as one can get.  Someday, Gecko, you will be old and need help in some way.  If you can't pay your gas bill, I will be happy to help pay for it. 

"Collective fear stimulates herd instinct and tends to produce ferocity toward those who are not regarded as members of the herd." -Bertrand Russell

[ Parent ]
Not every
I think if you look at Somalia or Chad you'll find that they have effectively dropped the level to 0. I hear that libertarians across the US are moving there and are now deleriously happy.

My recommendations in the 2010 primary?
[ Parent ]
Oh darn...I thought that was true for a moment.


"Collective fear stimulates herd instinct and tends to produce ferocity toward those who are not regarded as members of the herd." -Bertrand Russell

[ Parent ]
Do you really think that?
I'm really sorry to hear that you think that of me.

If your monetary outlay was less because of "socialized" healthcare - either government-run or simply government-regulated - is that wanting to pull every last nickel out of your pockets?

If you paid fewer taxes because we rehabilitated drug addicts and treated mental health patients instead of throwing them in the slammer with zero rehab opportunity, would that be pulling more nickels out of your change jar?

And if your employees were at work more often because they breathed healthy air, would that not in fact increase your earnings?

I don't support all of the things I mentioned.  I don't support some of the things in the middle of that list, and certainly not any of the things at the bottom of it.

I'm not out to take your guns, or your money, or your freedoms, or your rights.  But I do believe that what you just wrote is short-sighted, both for yourself and for those around you - that protection runs beyond simple police protection and fire control, and that some things that are good for us, and for society as a whole are antithetical to laissez-faire governance and corporate power.

And that is where we differ.  I'm glad we can discuss it, and hope we continue to do so.

"I have come to the conclusion that the making of laws is like the making of sausages-the less you know about the process the more you respect the result."  -- Anonymous IL State Rep. circa 1878

[ Parent ]
much the same way those tax credits for Enron worked
John McCain, in one of his more rational moments, gave a good rant against corporate welfare.
[ Parent ]
Wow, what a great definition
It's short, concise, and pointed as well as completely foolish, close-minded, and incomplete. Maybe I should ask someone else who thinks at a 5th grade level to give me a definition of communism -- then I'd really be informed!
[ Parent ]
No, we don't tolerate bigotry, misogyny, stupidity, etc etc.
And those are Schulteis' values. 

"Collective fear stimulates herd instinct and tends to produce ferocity toward those who are not regarded as members of the herd." -Bertrand Russell

[ Parent ]
Tolerance != Religious instruction
Keep your (and by marginally related naming conventions, my) religion out of school and government.

"I have come to the conclusion that the making of laws is like the making of sausages-the less you know about the process the more you respect the result."  -- Anonymous IL State Rep. circa 1878
[ Parent ]
get real
Doglike-I got no problem with Jesus Freaks, just don't think the state should be funding their mission work.  This bill is ridiculous, trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist and opening up major cans of worms...  There are many things that people hold a strong religious beliefs.  They range from war (against infidels, like Catholics) is good to war is bad.  Is the sabbath Saturday or Sunday?  What no more sport events on Saturdays? 
[ Parent ]
tolerating the intolerant
is like giving a line of credit to an addictive gambler (Bill Bennett, is that you?)  It only makes them more comfortable with their predjudices.

Many people in America are Christian. Many are Jewish.  Many are agnostic.  That is irrelvent to the necessarily and appropriately secular rule of government.

We are not a nation of majority rules - the existence of the Senate is proof of that.  We are a nation that protects the rights of the minority *from* the oppression of the majority.

Many people in Saudi Arabia are religious fundamentalists like Schulteis, and don't differentiate between church and state, which is why women can't drive and people get drunk behind locked doors.

No thanks.

[ Parent ]
"We are not a nation of majority rules."
Oh.  Thanks for the update.

"Many people in Saudi Arabia are religious fundamentalists like Schulteis..."

I must have missed the bill that would mandate that all women who drive cars get stoned to death.  Was that introduced today?  And I was told that cliterectomies are still illegal (pending, of course, Schulteiss's bill).  I did get wind that Crazy Dave--that is what you call him right?--was set to introduce another bill setting up the FourSquare Church of America as our official state church, but I've been assured that if you happen to be Presbyterian you won't be exiled.  Though, knowing Schulteiss, that may change.

I just thought I'd let you know, if you even care, that while America is remarkably pluralistic and it's all the more lovely for it, about 80-90% of people here are Christians. 

[ Parent ]
Close, latest estimate is 76.5%
However, Christianity was increasing at 5% (by number) the decade of the 90s. Other religions (or lack thereof)

nonreligious/secular - 13.2% - up 110%
judaism  - 1.3% - down 10%
islam  - .5% - up 109%
hinduism  - .5% - up 170%

(reference www.adherents.com)

[ Parent ]
Hmmm... so why the lift lines
Paris may be worth a mass, but a Sunday on the slopes is priceless.  Seems like there are a lot of non-attending believers.  Shouldn't those people be in church?

"Not to be a socialist at twenty is proof of want of heart; to be one at thirty is proof of want of head". Georges Clemenceau
[ Parent ]
Most of them are C&E Christians
Some are like myself and probably others who post here - highly religious, but not attached to a church.  But most are just C&E Christians - signed up on the rolls so they can say they belong, but not really religious about attending services.

"I have come to the conclusion that the making of laws is like the making of sausages-the less you know about the process the more you respect the result."  -- Anonymous IL State Rep. circa 1878
[ Parent ]
Christianity was increasing at 5% (by number) the decade of the 90s
which I attribute to the spirtual uplifting which Bill and Hillary gave to our nation.  God bless the Clintons!
[ Parent ]
!
" must have missed the bill that would mandate that all women who drive cars get stoned to death."

Yes.  Thank the gods and goddesses.  BUT we will be introducing a bill that makes it legal to get religious fundies STONED.  You may have mis-read that bill.

Simple mistake.

"Thousands are sailing, across the western ocean, to a land of opportunity, that some of them will never see . . ."

- The Pogues

[ Parent ]
So why can they get stoned and I can't?
Didn't we just vote "No" to legalized marijuana?

'Scuse me, gotta clean this new lid I got.....

"Collective fear stimulates herd instinct and tends to produce ferocity toward those who are not regarded as members of the herd." -Bertrand Russell

[ Parent ]
Well
It comes down to a question of *need*.  They NEED it you do not!  ;-)

"Thousands are sailing, across the western ocean, to a land of opportunity, that some of them will never see . . ."

- The Pogues

[ Parent ]
!
"Ah yes!  Because you take any opportunity you get to stick it to the Jesus Freaks."

Could not have put it better myself!  :-D

"Thousands are sailing, across the western ocean, to a land of opportunity, that some of them will never see . . ."

- The Pogues

[ Parent ]
Geneva was a wonderul place under the Calvinists, I hear....
Along with Iran, Afghanistan, etc.  Theocracies all.

"Collective fear stimulates herd instinct and tends to produce ferocity toward those who are not regarded as members of the herd." -Bertrand Russell

Savonarola
http://en.wikipedia....

"Not to be a socialist at twenty is proof of want of heart; to be one at thirty is proof of want of head". Georges Clemenceau
[ Parent ]
Thanks, I'd not heard of him. What a schnoz!


"Collective fear stimulates herd instinct and tends to produce ferocity toward those who are not regarded as members of the herd." -Bertrand Russell

[ Parent ]
Pretty much the prototype


"Not to be a socialist at twenty is proof of want of heart; to be one at thirty is proof of want of head". Georges Clemenceau
[ Parent ]
The Denver RC Archdiocese Supported Schultheis
Which goes to show how far right the Roman Church has been listing in recent years. Yikes!
Schultheis' Religion in School Bill Dies | 69 comments
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