Republicans Push "Union" Solution for Health Care Crisis

Interesting

This is the language of the radical change proposed for the Colorado Constitution:

AS USED IN THIS SECTION, "LABOR UNION" MEANS ANY ORGANIZATION OF ANY KIND, OR AGENCY OR EMPLOYEE REPRESENTATION COMMITTEE OR ORGANIZATION, THAT EXISTS FOR THE PURPOSE, IN WHOLE OR IN PART, OF DEALING WITH EMPLOYERS CONCERNING WAGES, RATES OF PAY, HOURS OF WORK, OTHER CONDITIONS OF EMPLOYMENT, OR OTHER FORMS OF COMPENSATION; ANY ORGANIZATION THAT EXISTS FOR THE PURPOSE OF COLLECTIVE BARGAINING OR OF DEALING WITH EMPLOYERS CONCERNING GRIEVANCES; AND ANY ORGANIZATION PROVIDING OTHER MUTUAL AID OR PROTECTION IN CONNECTION WITH EMPLOYMENT.

the last line might prevent it.  Because employers would be a "any organization".
 

Blue Bronc

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by: Blue Bronc @ Sun Sep 23, 2007 at 20:38:00 PM CDT

Equating buying cooperatives with unions is ignorant

Two different animals.

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by: Another skeptic @ Mon Sep 24, 2007 at 17:18:29 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

how so?

care to expound upon that?

Unions use their collective buying power to negotiate on behalf of members. That's different than this proposal in what way?

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by: Steve Balboni @ Mon Sep 24, 2007 at 17:49:07 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Many differences

1. Buying coops are voluntary. Most unions are closed shops, employees have no choices but to join.
2. Unions represent sellers, employees. Buying coops represent  buyers of goods and services.
3. Unions work for the benefits of union leaders and usually create problems for employers and workers.
4. Buying coops represent businesses, hospitals, farmers, retailers and other for-profit and not-for-profit businesses. While some buying coops are self-perpetuating organizations like unions, most coops are governed and managed by the dues and fee-paying members.
5. Unions work to reduce productivity and increase costs. Buying coops help members increase productivity and reduce costs.
6. Numerous union leaders have been convicted of crimes. How many coop leaders have?
7. Employers do everything they can avert union organization. Businesses eagerly join buying coops that are workable. Interesting contrast.
8. Unions are run by elected members who've used their political skills to hit the golden parachute. Buying coops hire top-flight executives based on merit. Think high school grads vs. MBAs.
9. Unions use political clout to win a competitive advantage over employers. Buying coops use their effectiveness to sell their services to their members. Large coops, by the way, have user committees who are very active in selecting vendors and products.

Just a few thoughts.

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by: Another skeptic @ Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 19:17:45 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Health care cooperatives fail everytime

I can't think of one that succeeded.

Colorado's was compromised by the legislature and insurers.

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by: Another skeptic @ Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 19:31:46 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

1-9 are false

and I really do not want to waste debunk this crap, but way to hit on every neo-conned stereotype of unions.

"Suddenly, it may be cool to be American again" - William J. Kole

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by: Go Blue @ Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 20:21:00 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Show your expertese

1 to 9 are correct. Nice way to show your union loyalty, which is ok.

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by: Another skeptic @ Wed Sep 26, 2007 at 00:17:23 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Solidarity

PR does a good job below showing how your circular argument debunks itself.

And, yes I am loyal to working class/ middle class citizens of America. They are what makes this country great.

"Suddenly, it may be cool to be American again" - William J. Kole

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by: Go Blue @ Wed Sep 26, 2007 at 09:25:10 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Great replies Go Blue and Phoenix!

In the immortal words of gecko, AS amounts to a pimple on your respective asses. For the life of me, I cannot understand why these arguements from the right are continually so fallacious. Are they that dense and uneducated, or do they KNOW what they're saying is propaganda?

"I can tolerate chaos, I'm just not sure chaos can tolerate me" Dylan

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by: Sir Robin @ Wed Sep 26, 2007 at 09:44:06 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Load 'o Hooey...

Using your terminology, a "buying co-op" is no different from a union - both are smaller fish trying to gain a voice against the larger organizations with which they need to do business.  In governance, goals, and tactics, you try to describe two different organizations but wind up invalidating yourself.

While you try to differentiate between unions and co-ops in governance, if you strip out your artificial division by placement, they appear to be exactly what they are - the same: unions (run by elected members) and co-ops (governed by the members).  Your words.

Unions and buying co-ops also have the same goals: the maximization of their members' financial health - through, as the diarist points out, collective bargaining.  In order to mis-characterize the one vs. the other, you look at both from the same point of view - that of the business owner - but this is a logical fallacy.  Notice the different role relationships:

Advocate:	Union	Co-Op
Plaintiff:	Worker	Business
Adversary:	Business	Vendor

When describing the differing "tactics" of unions vs. co-ops, you describe a union as inclusive of its members but then pretend that a co-op is just a middleman and is not using its own collective membership strength to influence vendors.

Into these false contrasts you throw a few other myths: that business organizations are innocent of corruption, that working up through the ranks does not provide valuable experience vs. a born-and-bred executive, and that there are no complexities regarding mixed union representation in a shop.  Your entire argument fails on analysis - it's simply, flatly wrong.

"I have come to the conclusion that the making of laws is like the making of sausages-the less you know about the process the more you respect the result."  -- Anonymous IL State Rep. circa 1878

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by: Phoenix Rising @ Wed Sep 26, 2007 at 00:31:39 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Only difference

is the class of people.

"Suddenly, it may be cool to be American again" - William J. Kole

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by: Go Blue @ Mon Sep 24, 2007 at 20:19:13 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

"...any kind..."

It looks very straight forward, the language covers anything that would represent, support or be of any help to workers in any way, shape or form. Whether it is organized by the workers  such as police and fire fighters associations or employers trying to save a few dollars by "organizing" their efforts to find any affordable health coverage for their employees.
The author wanted to make sure employees would never have any outside representation.  And he succeeded. 

This movie has been rated PG-13 for sci-fi violence and destruction
@pambennettauror

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by: Pam Bennett @ Mon Sep 24, 2007 at 21:59:26 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Not just too little, too late....

What? Ya think that companies like GM or Qwest don't negotiate?  While they might get a little better price for an equivalent plan than, oh, Level 3, this is no magic bullet.

It is, however, another Republican ploy to obfuscate and delay the implementation of the only system that makes sense.  Yes, Gecko/LB, that one.

"Collective fear stimulates herd instinct and tends to produce ferocity toward those who are not regarded as members of the herd." -Bertrand Russell

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by: parsingreality @ Sun Sep 23, 2007 at 22:31:16 PM CDT

Here are the single payer proposal, draft, etc.

Brought to you at: http://healthcarefor...

http://healthcarefor...

http://healthcarefor...

"Collective fear stimulates herd instinct and tends to produce ferocity toward those who are not regarded as members of the herd." -Bertrand Russell

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by: parsingreality @ Sun Sep 23, 2007 at 22:34:10 PM CDT

Perhaps

this is a "if you can't beat them, join them" tactic by Colorado republicans. As pollster Floyd Ciruli recently pointed out about Governor Ritter's approval rating,

"his poll numbers show that GOP attacks on Democrats as tax-and-spend and soft on unions don't resonate as well in Colorado as they once did."

http://www.coloradoc...

Although, I'm not so sure the republicans will either acknowledge this a union-style health care solution or that their old school negative politics is no longer resonating with voters.

As Rick Ridder said

"What has been clear is that the Republicans have been playing old-style politics and have not realized that the state has changed."

"Suddenly, it may be cool to be American again" - William J. Kole

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by: Go Blue @ Mon Sep 24, 2007 at 08:24:59 AM CDT

In this state, it is easy for dems to push down the pubs

All they have to do, is point out that jobs were MUCH better in the 90's under a dem than during the last 6 years under pubs.

I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.

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by: windbourne @ Mon Sep 24, 2007 at 11:11:39 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

These would be the same pubs that prohibited the fed?

Is this the same republican party that prohibited the feds from doing so for senior drugs? Hmmmmm.

I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.

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by: windbourne @ Mon Sep 24, 2007 at 11:10:18 AM CDT

Let's use the capitalist goals to make a health care policy

Things like efficiency of billing, lowest possible cost, eliminate the middle man, greatest value for the money.

Oh, that's single payer, isn't it?

"Collective fear stimulates herd instinct and tends to produce ferocity toward those who are not regarded as members of the herd." -Bertrand Russell

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by: parsingreality @ Mon Sep 24, 2007 at 13:51:13 PM CDT

A moral question

Are we a moral and just society that puts our people before profits, or is greed the only driving force?


"Suddenly, it may be cool to be American again" - William J. Kole

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by: Go Blue @ Mon Sep 24, 2007 at 13:59:15 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Speaking of moral courage

Howard Dean is going after the republican base voters... for votes

"No one expects miracles, of course. Conservative Christians started shifting to the Republicans as the "party of values" in 1979, when Jerry Falwell founded the Moral Majority. They were the most important bloc of voters in George W. Bush's victories in 2000 and 2004. But the movement is not as cohesive as it once was. Many younger evangelicals are worried about issues beyond the traditional struggles over abortion, school prayer and gay marriage. They're becoming vocal about the environment, AIDS, poverty and genocide-a newer set of "values" that Democrats are more comfortable addressing.

The Democrats see an opening-not to conquer the movement but to harness some of its energy for themselves. "In the past, we've come off as dismissive to evangelicals," Dean tells NEWSWEEK. "But our party has become much more comfortable talking about faith and values." Dean has met with four or five influential evangelicals in addition to Land, sometimes visiting their offices to talk. "Are we going to abandon Roe v. Wade? No. But a lot can be done to prevent teen pregnancy and abortions. There is a lot we do agree on." The DNC under Dean has stepped up its Faith in Action initiative, an outreach program created in the wake of the Democrats' 2004 defeat. Run by a Pentecostal minister, it has trained about 150 people."

http://www.msnbc.msn...

"Suddenly, it may be cool to be American again" - William J. Kole

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by: Go Blue @ Mon Sep 24, 2007 at 16:17:23 PM CDT

[ Parent ]