Problems for 'Right to Work for Less'?

Wrong Coors

Everything I have read is that it is Jonathan Coors who is funding the effort at Coors Tech a different company although still part of the Coors family holdings. Did I miss something?

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by: MichaelScott @ Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 08:41:02 AM CDT

You are correct

The connection is the family, not the company.  But there are Coors family members on the board of Coors.  I am suggesting the family has taken Jonathan aside and told him to cool it.  Just a theory though.  But it makes sense under the circumstances.

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by: vercingetrix @ Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 08:51:16 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Most of the checks

generally come from the family's foundations.

Most of the issue campaigns these days are run out of C3/C4 combinations to increase tax deductibility (and to hide the source of the money). They only put money into issue committees for regulated purposes (electioneering communication) and run everything else they can out of nonprofits.

So, essentially, issue campaigns are largely taxpayer-funded.

Expect them to push the envelope farther than ever this year, as the Bush IRS is rather slow to investigate when Bush agrees with the ideological bent of the tax scammer. And expect the Secretary of State to go easy as well, as Coffman's right on board (and even if he weren't, he's not exactly the most competent SOS we've ever had).

You might even see federal money going into it to boost turnout for Schaffer ans McCain since there's still no FEC to investigate (and they hardly ever investigate during an election year anyway). Even if there were, the big money people just see FEC fines as the cost of doing business. Just look at the swift boaters--they got the largest fine in FEC history and didn't even bat an eye.

Non impediti ratione cogitationis.

"Some of the people that wanted to engage me in conversation appeared to have been the losers in the 'Are you smarter than Michele Bachmann contest?'." --Rep. Barney Frank

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by: ThillyWabbit @ Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 09:38:02 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Vote YES on Amendment 47

Extend the Governor's order granting the Right-to-Work to all Coloradans.

Stop the senseless cutlure of Corruption - Politics - Forced Dues

Protect Colorado's working families by giving them Paycheck Protection.

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by: Libertad @ Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 12:42:12 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

And I changed "Pete" to "Jonathan"

Sorry for the mix up. It has been corrected.

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by: vercingetrix @ Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 09:15:00 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Thanks for expanding on this

I wrote about the fundraising woes a little while back, thanks for pushing this to the next level.

Previous noting of the anemic fundraising and mismanagement of the rest of the campaign funds
http://steampoweredopinions.bl...

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by: Steve Balboni @ Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 09:24:44 AM CDT

When this passes

I'm going to laugh my ass off at all of this silliness.

Colorado voters still have enough sense to get this one through.

"Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys."

P.J. O'Rourke

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by: Laughing Boy @ Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 13:14:58 PM CDT

When it fails

Will you change your handle to "Crying Boy"?

Tom Tancredo Interview

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by: DavidThi808 @ Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 13:21:13 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

No.

I'm already crying with the bullshit Ritter's pulled with Labor.

I'm just hoping people have more sense than he does.  This would protect the taxpayers here at least through his tenure until we can get a real governor in there and rescind his EO BS.

"Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys."

P.J. O'Rourke

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by: Laughing Boy @ Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 13:32:37 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

"Right to work for less"

Took you awhile to think that up huh?

How about if they change the name to "Right to not be forced into a union that is doomed to failure"?

Pete Coors for Governor

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by: 2 Beers @ Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 13:21:20 PM CDT

You can't be forced to join a union in the United States

It's National Labor Relations law. Has been for a long time.

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by: Colorado Pols @ Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 13:37:02 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

And Pols

..knows their Labor talking points, eh?  :)

So, can a non-union worker be forced to pay union dues?

"Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys."

P.J. O'Rourke

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by: Laughing Boy @ Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 13:41:57 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Only the portion...

Only the portion spent negotiating the employee's salary.  No-one in their right mind can argue that a union contract doesn't give non-union workers a baseline for their own salary negotiations.

"I have come to the conclusion that the making of laws is like the making of sausages-the less you know about the process the more you respect the result."  -- Anonymous IL State Rep. circa 1878

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by: Phoenix Rising @ Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 13:55:53 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

That was my point and I am sure Pols knew that.

Pete Coors for Governor

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by: 2 Beers @ Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 15:31:59 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Yes on 47

Why should only some government workers have the right to choose?

Should not all Coloradoans have the right to choice?

U.A.W = U Ain't Workin'

C.W.A = C Workers Absconded

S.E.I.U = So Everyone Is Unioned-up

UFCW = United Forced Communism Works

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by: Libertad @ Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 15:41:55 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Well...

At least we have all the rabid anti-worker folks posting under the same thread.

"I have come to the conclusion that the making of laws is like the making of sausages-the less you know about the process the more you respect the result."  -- Anonymous IL State Rep. circa 1878

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by: Phoenix Rising @ Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 16:03:11 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

It's good to know all those pinkerton men

have learned to use computers along with their blackjacks!

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by: bob ewegen @ Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 17:00:23 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

LOL!

"Collective fear stimulates herd instinct and tends to produce ferocity toward those who are not regarded as members of the herd." -Bertrand Russell

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by: parsingreality @ Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 08:35:08 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

If you want "workers to have the right to choose"

Do you support a woman's right to choose also?

Tom Tancredo Interview

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by: DavidThi808 @ Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 19:40:49 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Good God David

We're talking about a workplace, not part of a woman's body. Get your priorities straight!

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by: RedGreen @ Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 19:47:14 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

"...a woman's right to choose..."

Not when doing so kills innocent humans.

Workers choosing to be blackmailed into paying money to Ritters pals, and a woman choosing to kill her kid are two different things.

**Tom Tancredo for Governor**

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by: Not A Queer Dude @ Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 20:50:55 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

So you support union efforts?

To make the workplace safer thereby saving the lives of workers? This is wonderful news, welcome to the pro-union side.

Tom Tancredo Interview

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by: DavidThi808 @ Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 21:07:57 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Those Damned

Fourth trimester abortions. When will they end?

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by: RedGreen @ Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:15:17 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

But they can "force you" to pay

for a union that you don't want any part of.
Even if your workplace wasn't union when you hired on.

**Tom Tancredo for Governor**

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by: Not A Queer Dude @ Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 18:34:56 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Are you saying you want to restrict what a business owner can do?

Here's what I don't get about all of you professed conservatives. You are pushing for a bill that would restrict what I as the CEO of a company can do.

Now maybe most business owners don't want to sign a union contract like that - but for those of us open to it - why restrict us?

Tom Tancredo Interview

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by: DavidThi808 @ Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 19:36:19 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I would be

willing to bet that a vast majority of business owners do not want unions in their business. Who would? Have you ever worked in a union or side by side with union workers?
Most do the very minimum that is required of them. They frown on others striving to do better as it can make them look bad. They make demands on pay (hence union scale) and benefits that in many cases do not match their personal outputs as workers. ETC. If asked to do a little extra, they will reply that is not in their job description.

I have worked on job sites with them many many times. Any tradesman can tell a union or partial union worksite. Most guys that have been in the trades can spot a union employee a mile away.
Who in their right minds would want slugs like that working for them anyway.

I'm not in management. I'm just a working stiff. You can keep your precious unions. They are killing the big three and will do this state in too if Ritter has his way.

**Tom Tancredo for Governor**

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by: Not A Queer Dude @ Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 20:46:51 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I've worked with union workers before

My dad owned a major construction company in Hawaii and I worked for him when I was in High School. I never saw much of a difference.

Where I did see a difference was in the crews working for other companies. I'm know unions can be very harmful - I think the teacher's unions are one of the primary causes of our disaster in the public schools.

But I also think a lot of this is how a company works with the union. When it's done well it's a win/win. Take a look at CostCo.

Tom Tancredo Interview

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by: DavidThi808 @ Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 21:10:59 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

The Union of My Father

My father was an airline pilot. As such he was a member of ALPA, the pilot's union. He grumbled about the dues a lot, but he also thought it was very important to have a union. For one thing the union made sure that a captain could not be forced to take a plane out if for whatever reason he thought it was unsafe to fly. This has probably saved thousands of lives over the years because a pilot could choose to not fly without fear of retribution.

Unions do go wrong, but they're damn good at times.

Matthew

Matthew

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by: Precinct854 @ Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 22:12:49 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

without fear of retribution

Good point, Precinct, Queer Dude's tired bigotry is divorced from reality.

Unions do go wrong, but they're damn good at times.

Same as, one might add, executives and management. These are people, people, not saints. But if management was held to the standards of infallibility unions seem to be, no one would be allowed to run a company in this country because of all the horror stories.

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by: RedGreen @ Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 00:27:49 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I sense a new initiative

Support the Right To Work For Caring and Capable People Amendment.

"I have come to the conclusion that the making of laws is like the making of sausages-the less you know about the process the more you respect the result."  -- Anonymous IL State Rep. circa 1878

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by: Phoenix Rising @ Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:11:01 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

My ex-pilot ex-son in law

When he joined Continental Express ("Little Continental") fifteen years ago he was making about $14/hr with all that training and responsibility.

Little Continental had it's own union and the company just kept brushing them off. Eventually the pilot's union from "Big Continental" said they would go on strike in support of the Little guys.  Bang.  New wages, about $70K IIRC.

Although Tom's love of the bottle ended his flying career, he played hero several times.  One was a belly landing because of a gear failure.  

The other was, as mentioned by Precinct, he didn't like a tire's condition.  He was not going to fly with that tire.  Boy, was the management pissed off, but at least we didn't read about a blowout injuring and killing dozens.  

"Collective fear stimulates herd instinct and tends to produce ferocity toward those who are not regarded as members of the herd." -Bertrand Russell

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by: parsingreality @ Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 08:42:48 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Agreed, Parsing.

The problem is that the Pilots' unions and the teachers' unions are universes apart.  One seems to work well and has a universal goal of safety and success, and the other is much more about holding on to power in a structure that is failing it's mission in nearly every way.

"Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys."

P.J. O'Rourke

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by: Laughing Boy @ Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 13:25:13 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Believe it or not, I do understand your perspective.

But OTOH, both my mother and I remember teaching when the teachers had no collective voice, low wages, etc.  We were all trying to be professional with the NEA, the AFT being new and pretty much relegated to the big cities.  

So what's the answer?  How do we protect teachers from vindictive administrators, get reasonable pay for their educational level, and yet avoid the stagnation?  

I don't have any suggestion.  

"Collective fear stimulates herd instinct and tends to produce ferocity toward those who are not regarded as members of the herd." -Bertrand Russell

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by: parsingreality @ Fri Jun 13, 2008 at 10:41:13 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Educate the educators?

Maybe it's time we got the teachers more involved in the solutions process.  The unions have been reluctant to look at public school charter solutions like those that have worked well here in Colorado.  They've been resistant to some of the changes that would help union members in their job, too.

Perhaps it's time to get the teachers involved in pushing back against the union leadership.

"I have come to the conclusion that the making of laws is like the making of sausages-the less you know about the process the more you respect the result."  -- Anonymous IL State Rep. circa 1878

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by: Phoenix Rising @ Fri Jun 13, 2008 at 11:46:31 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

They did

At Bruce Randolph, and the union caved a tiny, tiny bit.

I also really have a problem with the political contributions from a publicly funded vocation going so overwhelmingly to one party.

If the shoe were on the other foot I think you'd feel similarly.

"Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys."

P.J. O'Rourke

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by: Laughing Boy @ Fri Jun 13, 2008 at 14:32:43 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

What union members do with their political contributions

Is up to them.

Union members are not required to pay dues directed toward political actions.  If they choose to do so, it's no different than a donation to the NRA, Sierra Club, or any other organization that lobbies for a cause.


"I have come to the conclusion that the making of laws is like the making of sausages-the less you know about the process the more you respect the result."  -- Anonymous IL State Rep. circa 1878

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by: Phoenix Rising @ Fri Jun 13, 2008 at 16:32:39 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Not exactly true

My understanding is that the dues are taken out automatically, and in CO 98.5% went to Democrat politicians and 527s.

A CEA member can submit a PAC refund request in writing to get a refund if done a certain amount of time before the election, but that requires 'outing' yourself politically to the union heavies over there who seem to be less than reasonable about some issues.

"Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys."

P.J. O'Rourke

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by: Laughing Boy @ Fri Jun 13, 2008 at 17:52:11 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

It was my understanding

that there's a checkbox on the dues form.  Or you could just not join the union and pay the base dues for their negotiating services.

Could be wrong, though.

"I have come to the conclusion that the making of laws is like the making of sausages-the less you know about the process the more you respect the result."  -- Anonymous IL State Rep. circa 1878

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by: Phoenix Rising @ Fri Jun 13, 2008 at 17:57:15 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

As could I.

Have a great weekend.  Good golf weather!

"Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys."

P.J. O'Rourke

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by: Laughing Boy @ Fri Jun 13, 2008 at 18:27:53 PM CDT

[ Parent ]