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Musgrave's New "Jail Time" Ad Met With Outrage

by: Colorado Pols

Thu Oct 16, 2008 at 12:56:13 PM MDT


A little over a week ago we discussed the "criminal complaint" that embattled CD-4 incumbent Marilyn Musgrave's district party chair filed against her Democratic opponent. As you recall, it wasn't executed all that well to say the least, since the guy admitted that Musgrave's campaign helped him prepare the complaint. It was also the same GOP official who filed a complaint against Musgrave's 2006 opponent, which was dismissed almost immediately. Cue slowly-rolling eyeballs.

But of course it was a criminal complaint, however baseless or of obviously mercenary origin, which was the barest fact needed for Musgrave to unleash what may be the shrillest, most over-the-top hyperbolic TV spot of the 2008 election cycle.

Five years in prison? Over this cheeseball complaint filed by a political accomplice who admits Musgrave's campaign ghost-wrote it, guaranteed to be summarily dismissed the moment the Justice Department gets to it a week after the election? Just like the one he filed against Angie Paccione?

On one hand, it's great political theater. On the other, it's a deliberate abuse of the process and of the Justice Department's name for absolutely baseless electioneering horseshit. Our first thought was "there ought to be a law," but we realize there probably isn't.

Reaction from both Markey's friends and media pundits was swift and unequivocal--this goes way too far and needs to backfire for the good of American politics generally. As the Fort Collins Coloradoan reports:

"I think these campaign ads for her have reached a new low in Colorado politics," Salazar said in a conference call with reporters. "Congresswoman Musgrave should be ashamed of herself and the voters of the 4th Congressional District should be appalled by her blatant disregard for the truth."

...Democratic Gov. Bill Ritter also criticized Musgrave's ad, though in less strident language than Salazar.

"I'm disappointed in Congresswoman Musgrave's dishonest campaign ads. I've known Betsy Markey for years. Betsy is above reproach and has always conducted herself with the highest level of integrity," Ritter said.

Musgrave's new ad opens with a voice-over that says, "Like the worst on Wall Street, Betsy Markey gamed the system and got rich on taxpayer money. But Millionaire Markey got caught."

The ad continues, "The Justice Department has been asked to investigate whether Markey broke the law" and said she could face five years in prison. The ad fails to mention that the investigation request came from the Republican Party chairman in the 4th Congressional District. [Pole emphasis]

Colorado State University political scientist John Straayer said Musgrave's latest ad could boomerang on her.

"Might we conclude that linking Syscom to Wall Street to five years in prison is intimating, if not stating directly, that Markey is a felon?" Straayer said. "If this doesn't backfire, there really is a pathology infecting our democracy."

Please, don't ever whine to us about the Pink Lady ads again.
Colorado Pols :: Musgrave's New "Jail Time" Ad Met With Outrage
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Musgrave's New "Jail Time" Ad Met With Outrage | 46 comments
Musgrave has a special place
in the seventh circle of hell.


This blog is your blog, this blog is my blog
Here's hoping this hurts MM bad
Because the one way to insure crap like this does not happen again is to make it hurt Musgrave - a lot.

I hope every single media puts up front and center how odious this is.

My recommendations in the 2010 primary?

I think it will hurt MM
People aren't in the mood for this kind of thing so much this time around. Also Markey  has turned out to be a better candidate than Paccione was for a variety of reasons besides it being a better time for Dems in general.

If negative ads were still the sure fire answer to everything, McCain's numbers would be rising, not falling.  This is old Repub operatives fighting the last war. They'll adjust by next election cycle but for now they appear to be digging themselves deeper.

[ Parent ]
Negative ads are most effective
when coming from third parties. People lose respect for both sides in apissing contest, but if only one of the urinators in question is on the ballot, the other candidate wins by default.  When McCain or Musgrave has to go on and say "I approved this load of crap" it goes a long way to equalizing things.  Still, considering that Markey's ads scream that Marilyn took a "$14,000 pay raise" that went to every other Member of Congress and accuse her of, gasp, accepting campaign contributions, I hardly think Team Markey is sticking to the high road.
[ Parent ]
I must confess, Bob, I have never understood
your eternal soft spot for Musgrave but you definitely do love that old gal, don't ya?

"The only way you could be worse is if you were Wade Norris." Ralphie
[ Parent ]
I could tell you tales, Middle,
of those wild nights in the hay mows of eastern Colorado, but they'd only make laughing boy jealous ;-)
Seriously, Musgrave, in the last two terms, has done a good job of looking out for agriculture in eastern Colorado. I know Tim Gill doesn't care about that, but as a man who still owns our family farm in Phllips County, I do.
If elected, Markey will represent solely the interests of the front range portion of the district. He's hostile to trade, upon which agriculture depends, and seems to view Eastern Colorado solely as a place to plop windmills down.   I know rural America is heavily outnumbered, even in this district. But that doesn't mean we should be ignored.
I've had knowledgeable talks with Marily and Schaefer before her about things like water issues and even efforts to help elevators clean grain better to meet high international grain export standards.  
 Stan Matsunaka understood those issues well. Markey just doesn't. I know those issues are meaningless to CSU students, but not to me.
[ Parent ]
I'm sorry but what does Tim Gill have to do with this?
That is a lame and rather sad dog whistle to blow in the middle of your defense of one of the most mediocre congresswomen to come down the pike. How my question relates to college students or gay multi-millionaires is beyond me, although if I was a college student and was aware of Musgrave's pathetic record and habit of voting to slice student aid, I'd be working my ass off for a representative who actually cares about something besides her upcoming pension.

I grew up on a farm in rural Illinois so agricultural issues are of interest to me and if you think Musgrave has done the beet growers any favors with her vote, if you think her support of NAFTA has been good for farmers, perhaps you ought to have another conversation with her.

And as a constituent living in Estes Park, I would be thrilled if she would show the slightest bit of interest in representing me or my community's interests--small businesses and the National Park. Her record on the environment is abysmal. She singlehandedly stood in the way of wilderness designation for years until her corrupt good buddy Pombo got thrown out on his ass in 2006.

Perhaps these things are not of concern to you. They are of grave concern to me and those of us that live in the mountains and make our living because of what they offer. As a matter of fact, I'm pretty sure they are the reason you are making a living since the beauty and environment of our mountain state are the primary reasons most people move to this state.

Again, Bob, it might behoove you to do a little homework and think outside of your farm in Philips County. For many of us in CD4, we'd really appreciate someone who represents all of us...for a change.

I expect better from you. You disappoint me when you can't stick to the issues.


"The only way you could be worse is if you were Wade Norris." Ralphie

[ Parent ]
No, Middle, I disappoint you when I disagree with you.
The sugar industry opposed CAFTA but it is good for the fourth and good for America, just as NAFTA is.  Every other ag group backed CAFTA. As to what Tim  Gill has to do with it, ask him -- he and stryker have poured millions into 527s attacking Musgrave. And they aren't doing it to stand for the embattled sugar beet growers in Ovid.
[ Parent ]
Wrong again, Bob.
You really have to stop assuming you know me better than I know myself. It's more than mildly insulting.

I don't mind when you disagree with me but when you can't do it without dragging in gay millionaires and college students, you lose. Every time.

I'm thrilled that 527s' have dumped money into this race. Kind of evens things up with the million dollar ad buy the Republicans coughed up, no? And that is really why you are throwing his name around, isn't it? It had nothing to do with the topic at hand or my comment. Just your personal beef with Gill and Stryker.  

They are here to stay and Musgrave is on her way out. For those of us in CD4, both are welcome news.

"The only way you could be worse is if you were Wade Norris." Ralphie

[ Parent ]
Bob is big on assumptions and putting thoughts into other people's heads.
He enjoys being a know it all.
[ Parent ]
Not as much as you enjoy
being an idiot!
[ Parent ]
But why should Musgrave care?
The ads are working. I had a 94 year old Democrat, who is sharp as a whip, ask me today if there was any truth to the Markey ads. Yes, a Democrat asked me that.

Markey needs to hit back on the air. Fuck the newspapers. She needs to hit back on the air, in ads. Angie didn't and it cost her the race in 2006. Up until now, Markey has run a smarter campaign. Let's hope she doesn't make the same mistakes her predecessors have.  

"The only way you could be worse is if you were Wade Norris." Ralphie

good point
[ Parent ]
I think Markey has been hitting back up to now pretty well
without looking quite as nasty. We'll have to stay tuned on the latest.
[ Parent ]
Hey BlueCat, I thought of you just now.
Just saw a brand new Markey ad and it hits back hard against Musgrave's bullshit.  

"The only way you could be worse is if you were Wade Norris." Ralphie
[ Parent ]
I think Markey is going to pull it off!

[ Parent ]
Last time I checked Colorado was a community property state
Betsy Markey says she sold her business to her husband.  OK. Colorado is a community property state. That means that she sold the business to herself. Why on Earth does Betsy want to keep talking about this issue?  

I have thought for some time that Betsy was on her way to Congress. The aggressive and from what I can tell accurate attacks by Musgrave may turn this race around. Betsy claims to have sold the business when all she did was take her name off the ownership papers. Yet her husband continued to claim that it was owned by a woman. This  is the kind of sophistry that voters reject.


"from what I can tell accurate"
get a life Hugh

" Is there a way to delete your own comments? " bjwilson83
[ Parent ]
Colorado is not now a community property state
and hasn't been one since prior to the formation of the territorial government by Congress.  

In Pueblo and the San Luis Valley, community property ended with the cession of the land to the United States from our neighbor to the South.  

The Louisiana purchase ended community property in all parts North (e.g. future Denver).

[ Parent ]
Community Property States
This is how I remember which states are community property states. All but three fall in one large group geographically. West to east they are California, Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, and Louisiana. The odd balls are Washington and Idaho, next to each other, and Wisconsin by itself.

Matthew
[ Parent ]
Contribute
I have
I have contributed to Betsy.

So I should give more money. I can see the ad now.

"I am Betsy Markey. I owned a business. I sold it to my husband. Under Colorado law I still own 50% of that business. My husband even signed forms more than once under penalty of perjury saying the business was owned by a woman, me after I had said I had sold it to my husband.  

"Marilyn Musgrave is lying about me."

Sure, let's get the word out about these "false" accusations by Musgrave that are dangerously close to being true. Normally when you sell a business it is to a third party and you do not retain any claim to ownership. Simply taking your name off while still legally owning 50% under Colorado law is not a sale. Interestingly, Markey whose sister is a lawyer has not produced any documents giving up her community property interest in the business.


[ Parent ]
"dangerously close to being true"
it just gets better !

" Is there a way to delete your own comments? " bjwilson83
[ Parent ]
good point Fidel
Fidel is right. No reason to mince words.

Marilyn Musgrave's accusations against Betsy Markey are true.

Now why does Betsy keep talking about this issue? Why does she make statements that are so wrongheaded? "I sold the business to my husband." Does she think people are stupid and don't understand that if your husband owns it you own it as a matter of law? Does she think that people believe her husband "accidentally" claimed it was a woman owned business?

Marilyn is a fighter. I thought this race was over but I may have been wrong. As for the criminal libel stuff below.  This is a federal race and as DA Buck correctly pointed out a State Prosecutor cannot file charges for offenses committed in a federal race.  

[ Parent ]
Really Hugh
Sell crazy somewhere else.  The ad, and Marilyn Musgrave, are both pathetic.  Musty has nothing to offer but crap and is about to be thrown out on her ass.



" Is there a way to delete your own comments? " bjwilson83

[ Parent ]
whatever you say
Sure, I sold the business. My husband just happened to stop by and take it off my hands. Community property what community property?

I would agree that Marilyn Musgrave is pathetic and that is why I donated to Markey.

Yet, on this issue Marilyn is right and Markey is just making it worse by claiming that she is being falsely attacked. Until Markey took a minor issue and made it much worse she was on her way to Congress.  Of course if she loses she can always buy back her interest in the business from her husband.  

[ Parent ]
Someone above
just posted that there is an ad in response already from Markey.  I'd like to see that.

" Is there a way to delete your own comments? " bjwilson83
[ Parent ]
It just ran on Channel 7.
It's pretty solid. I was impressed with how fast she got it up on the air.

"The only way you could be worse is if you were Wade Norris." Ralphie
[ Parent ]
Do they have it on Yoooo-tooob yet, Middle?

[ Parent ]
I can't find it on there, Bob.
I looked but my Search skills are abysmal.  

"The only way you could be worse is if you were Wade Norris." Ralphie
[ Parent ]
I will check it the ad middle
BTW, I was in your neck of the woods last weekend.   We stayed at Colorado Cottages about a mile before the Beaver Meadows entrance station - you are lucky to live up there !

" Is there a way to delete your own comments? " bjwilson83
[ Parent ]
Oh, Fidel, I agree.
I love living here. Wow, you stayed at a beautiful spot. I know exactly where you were. The weather was so crappy. Sorry for that. ;)

"The only way you could be worse is if you were Wade Norris." Ralphie
[ Parent ]
Actually
Saturday, as I am sure you know, had this kind of ominous fog which was actually quite beautiful, then a trace of snow Sunday morning and the sun came out.  My two year old son's eyes just lit up every time we saw Elk. Also saw pheasant and a fox, and twice saw two bull elks duking it out.  We stay there about twice a year - it is indeed a great place.

" Is there a way to delete your own comments? " bjwilson83
[ Parent ]
That is kind of weird.
I had a fox wake me up on Saturday morning, about 6:30 a.m. (That noise that make always gets my dog going.) I live right by the post office so he must have been across from my house, in the little park by the river. The make the strangest sound. So beautiful.

Im glad you had a great time. It was awfully chilly all weekend but yes, beautiful.  

"The only way you could be worse is if you were Wade Norris." Ralphie

[ Parent ]
There is a law.
Colorado has a criminal libel law on the books, and it hasn't been held to be outright unconstitutional, although the legal standard for a case under the law is strict in a case involving a public official in a matter of public concern, particularly where legal conclusions are a part of the alleged falsehood.

Indeed, that law has been invoked in both this race and in El Paso County in recent years in response to just theses sorts of accusations.

I personally think that partisan elected prosecutors are not suitable arbiters of election related speech truthfulness, and the remedy (post-election criminal trials and sentencing) is a poor fit for the harm (a distorted election result if the falsehood is believed).  

I oppose the criminalization of politics.  Fortunately, Colorado prosecutors generally agree -- criminal libel cases are extremely rare.

Plus, Ohwilleke, the ad is not a lie.
Markey "might" go to prison and I "might" become heavyweight champion of the world.  It's definitely not the way to bet, but it is a possible, though incredibly unlikely, consequence of a partisan complaint by a partisan hack.
It reminds me of the smear the Colorado Springs Independent did against former state Sen. Ed Jones. They quoted a drug task force guy saying Jones was in a bar owned by a friend of his when a drug sale went down. Nobody claimed Ed was involved in the deal but on persistent questioning, the so-called Independent gbot the cop to agree Jones "might or not not have known" about the deal.
  Well, yeah, that pretty well covers the options... Of course, as I wsrote in a column at the time, Ed "might or might not" have killed John F. Kennedy and been the  first man to the moon.  The art of the not quite lie is an old and disreputable one.    
[ Parent ]
What exactly is false?
No you becoming heavyweight champ is impossible.

I know the claims have made Betsy unhappy. Other than making her unhappy what exactly is untrue in the Musgrave claims?  I am not trying to belabor the point but everything that Musgrave says is true.  

If someone will tell me what is false I will admit I am wrong. Markey says over and over again that Musgrave is telling falsehoods but will not tell us what exactly is false.  

If Markey loses she can thank her mishandling of this issue.  Better not send the deposit check on that place in Georgetown just yet.

[ Parent ]
Small organ, you misread the post
Musgrave didn't quite legally lie. The chance of Markey going to prison at the behest of the Musgrave campaign is not zero. It's -4.38 to the 40th power, but not zero.
 In contrast, it's not impossible for me to become heavyweight champ. I would easily whip your sorry ass, and, in his present condition, I might even edge Muhammad Ali.
 
[ Parent ]
It's also "true," in your sense of the word, that Musgrave might be sentenced to death!!!..
...(fine print:) if she ever murdered someone.

Let's put that in an ad and defend the ad against those who say it's a lie.

[ Parent ]
Read the thread jammy
and you'll see the context of the lie/ not quite a lie argument is, a, an (unforceable) colorado law that says you can't lie in a political ad and, b, Ohwilleke's learned discussion of our equally unenforcable criminal libel statute.     Assuming you're responding to small organ (that boy does have issues, doesn't he...) you're spot on.
But I'm also still waiting for the Markey campaign to explain why I should be shocked by the fact that Musgrave received the same pay increase every other member of Congress did.  
I do think the "jailbird" add is so over the top as to be counterproductive.
[ Parent ]
Ok, thanks.

[ Parent ]
So I went to Musgrave's website
I was going to write a very polite email saying that I thought this is way over the line. There is no email address on Musgrave's website. There is no contact us form. Nothing. Nada. Just a phone number.

What does that say about her as a candidate that she gives the voters no electronic way to contact her?

My recommendations in the 2010 primary?

Here you go, David.
I saw this at the bottom, along with a campaign address.

•(970) 587-5732

"The only way you could be worse is if you were Wade Norris." Ralphie

[ Parent ]
Oh and I just called to express my displeasure.
The entire conversation was a joke. The campaign office could not care less how a CD4 voter feels about the way Musgrave continues to ignore telling us where she stands on the issues and instead heads into the mud every single election cycle.  

"The only way you could be worse is if you were Wade Norris." Ralphie
[ Parent ]
My point was no electronic communication
Very weird - no email or contact us form. Not even a way to volunteer.

My recommendations in the 2010 primary?
[ Parent ]
Buxman is contradicting himself.
Ronald Buxman, chairman of the 4th Congressional District Republican Party, sent letters requesting an investigation of Syscom to the Justice Department, General Services Administration and Small Business Administration. He asked the agencies to look into whether Syscom falsely represented itself as a woman-owned company to obtain government contracts and whether federal purchasing agents violated a law that prohibits them from knowingly awarding contracts to a company owned or substantially owned by a federal employee.

Giving him the benefit of the doubt he still has to choose his complaint.

If Markey still owned the business, it was woman-owned.

If she didn't, it wasn't.

You can't complain about a conflict of interest and taking advantage of the quota system at the same time.

"Don't go all "Ralphie" on me now: Just let it go." - Steve Harvey

Musgrave's New "Jail Time" Ad Met With Outrage | 46 comments
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