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March 23, 2018 03:11 PM UTC
25 Comments
With teenagers and adults from around the country set to rally in Washington DC tomorrow for expanded gun safety laws, one Colorado lawmaker is apparently dismissing recent student activism because it wouldn’t have prevented a school shooting this week.
"Evidence suggests that gun safety proposals, like universal background checks implemented in Colorado and seven other states, reduce gun deaths."
Evidence may suggest the gun laws implemented in Colorado reduce gun deaths, but the fact is since these laws were passed in 2013, gun deaths(88) have done nothing but Increase,(113) with a 22% jump in firearm homicides in Colorado up to 2015 as per the Colorado Bureau of Investigation,
In 2016 the FBI reported 136 gun deaths in Colorado, an additional 17% increase from the 2015 stats which suggest new laws would decrease gun deaths, and 2017 is tied for Denver's deadliest year in a decade, with a 28% increase in gun deaths since time of new laws passing in Denver alone.
So the implementation of new gun laws in Colorado intended to decrease gun deaths have seen a total of a 35% increase in gun deaths and we are encouraging more gun laws. That's awesome. Keep up the good work. Maybe a law that says criminals have to obey the law…..oh wait…
Obviously, the answer is that we need more guns. There is still an old granny in Northglenn without an assault rifle. She relies solely on an old British PIAT and a Short Magazine Lee Enfield. For God's sake, get that woman an Uzi!
Or a grenade launcher. Never mind about her cataraches. She can still point in the general direction.
Let's give teachers guns. That will solve everything.
. . . and bump stocks. Don’t forget bump stocks! . . .
. . . Remember: The only way to stop a bad man with a gun, is s kindergarten teacher with two hours of training and a bump stock!
Whoa hold it there Dio bump stocks are expensive…. classrooms are FULL of comparable alternatives to bumpstocks that will allow teachers to light'em up without going over budget….
….never let the enemy score points because you're caught without a solution to the problem…..
Hey, let’s not be arguing with the experts . . .
. . . the NRA and Colorado Republicans, huh?
“Alternatives”? Next you’ll be suggesting that there’s alternatives to assault rifles . . .
Alternative to assault rifles? Oh, yeah how bout the Ruger Mini -14? It shoots the same bullet as an AR15 at the same rate of fire with the same capacity magazines, but curiously, does not appear on the list of banned guns in the prior 1994 assault weapons ban, nor does it appear in the proposed 2018 assault weapons ban either. Once you realize that this gun is exactly the same as this gun, you will find that yes, there are alternatives to assault rifles.
oh and by the way you can bump fire these with a rubber band too….
Yeah, I know.
And, I guess when the miscreants start regularly shooting up schools and other gatherings with Mini-14s and rubber bands, we should consider steps to eliminate those, too.
If the NRAniacs begin to see that they’re risking having their toys taken away, too, until they also start dealing with these problems, then, well . . .
It’s a elephant to eat alright . . .
As a man who trained on the M14, I've always admired the mini14. We called the M16 a mattell toy, and carried the same scorn over to the AR15. But the early 16s, which actually were made in part by mattell, were crap that jammed constantly. Good men died needlessly as a result.
If they want to give me a gun, I'd certainly take one, as a hobby / target practice / hunting tool.
I would not take it to school.
And the gun nuts will accuse you of blasphemy
How bout a bucket of rocks?
Honestly I think this is a great idea. Puts a level of defense in the classroom without adding more guns to the mix.
You're mangling and twisting the CBI stats. I actually looked at the stats of firearm homicides for 2012-2016, not just at the title page of CBI you linked to. From the Crime in Colorado page, you go to each year, then to the homicides page, then the link for the "supplemental homicides report" and scroll down to "type of weapon used", to view the actual numbers.
When one does this, one finds that the rate of firearm homicides was actually pretty flat between 2012 and 2014:
2012 had 92 firearm homicides, 2013 had 88, 2014 had 90. When you factor in population growth, yes, firearm homicides did drop in 2014.
Then in 2015 there was a big spike of 113. 2016 continued that dangerous trend with 132, and then in 2017, we had 56 homicides in Denver metro area alone. especially in low-income neighborhoods in north and east Denver.
The Denver Post article cited an increase in domestic violence murders in 2016.
In 2017, police "are not seeing any patterns", according to the article, but it's pretty clear from the stats that black and brown folks in poor neighborhoods are getting victimized.
The "pattern" would be higher rents, less affordable housing, increase in opioid and heroin drug sales and use, lack of services for homeless people and transients. In Greeley, where shelters are always overflowing after the slow decline of the oil and gas boom,
In addition, if you're really looking at gun laws as an explanation for higher rates of homicide with firearms, you may want to take a close look at the Johns Hopkins study, "The Case for Gun Policy Reforms in America".
The study found, not surprisingly, that concealed carry and open carry policies, far from preventing violent gun crime, created conditions in which it increased and flourished, leading to a 1-9% increase in violent assaults carried out by permitted holders.
I'm really not at all interested in having another long, pointless, trivial debate with you. You don't normally attack my character or intelligence, as V tends to do, but you try to wear down with endless distraction and diffusion. You muddy. You obfuscate, You have admitted that there is no gun -restricting law ever written or that could be written that you would support.
The stats you cite are flawed, and do not show that background check and magazine size limitations have failed to restrict gun murders. The people who have done multiple city, multiple decade studies of violent crime (funded by Bloomberg because until recently the CDC has been legally prohibited from tracking gun deaths) show that more guns on the street and looser gun laws ensure that more people will die by gun. Period.
Wow, talk about muddy obfuscation and trivial debates mama, did you read your post? The data taken for my stats are the same dataset you reference in your post. Identical. How is that mangling or twisting stats? We had this debate in 2015 and you held this data sacred then, but now when it does not serve you its somehow confusing and twisted logic. Colorado laws were enacted to save lives. It did not save lives. Period. Gun deaths increased. I applaud your pattern analysis which addresses the socio-economical rational, which you and I agree on completely, however the combination of increased gun restrictions with higher gun deaths is adequate support to show that, hello, ITS NOT THE GUNS. If you can blame socio economic environmental reasons for the rise in gun deaths, it would be logical to suggest that improving this condition would reduce gun deaths, amiright? Perhaps that would be a good next attempt since Colorado has proven that increased gun laws do not reduce gun deaths.
And just for the record, I have not admitted that there is no gun-restriction law that I would support. I admit there is no gun law that a criminal will abide by. There is a difference.
In an alternative universe, there may be a Colorado with wide open access to guns. No doubt, that Colorado has more gun deaths than ours.
In the real world, it is safe to assume that there would be somewhat more gun deaths in Negev World than MJ world. Why, for instance, does anyone have a legitimate need for a 100 round magazine? But the lack of a control group makes absolute certainty impossible.
In the actual, in that I mean real world matter of fact, there was substantially more gun deaths in the MJ world than there was in the Negev world. That's not an assumption, nor somewhat, we are talking over 30% increase. The legitimate need for a 100 round magazine was proven inconsequential as it was removed from the environment and did not provide the intended results of its removal. The Colorado model proves that restricting magazine capacity and universal background checks on private sales do not reduce gun deaths. It's really just that simple.
Your misleading crap is evidenced by the comment about 100 round magazines..they were not "removed from the environment"…as you suggest. No existing armament was taken from anyone. Sales ( and perhaps manufacture…not sure) were restricted. There were still thousands in existence.
You are right about one thing, though Negev. The mini 14 (with the available 100 rd.drum) is only slightly different from the AR 15 in its' capacity for killing and should not be available on the open market. No private citizen should be allowed to own a semi-automatic weapon…rifle or otherwise. Will that stop murder? No. Will it stop people from planting bombs? No. Will it save hundreds, if not thousands of lives? I have absolutely no doubt.
The thing about these kids that has gun nuts like you scared shitless is they have correctly identified the problem and called out the enemy…the NRA.
The simplest and most effective change that could bring a solution to gun violence is a change of leadership in the NRA. The next best step is a change of leadership in Congress and the White House.
The kids, with our help, will see to it.
Well, I will grant you that these young bucks have accomplished more in 30 days than the Dems have in a lifetime, which leads me to wonder if you ever really wanted to solve this problem in the first place, but if the NRA truly was the enemy they would just buy Democrats too.
So, my "misleading crap" is evidence that we cannot correlate the number of gun deaths in CO to the removal of 100 round mags, because they were not actually removed, just "restricted", but you "have absolutely no doubt" that restricting semi auto weapons will save hundreds, if not thousands of lives? Are you accounting for the millions in existence or advocating taking existing armament?
I know the answer already so you can save your breath but if you think some overexposed children of gun violence are going to change the narrative on this, read the Omnibus Bill
I would think twice about funding the CDC gun violence research. Based on raw data in CO, you may not like what you hear. If you remember the 1994 ban results:
• Should it be renewed, the ban’s effects on gun violence are likely to be small at best and perhaps too small for reliable measurement. AWs were rarely used in gun crimes even before the ban. LCMs are involved in a more substantial share of gun crimes, but it is not clear how often the outcomes of gun attacks depend on the ability of offenders to fire more than ten shots (the current magazine capacity limit) without reloading.
So careful what you wish for….
100 round magazines are indefensible. But banning them won't show up, if at all, except during years of a mass shooting incident. As even you recognize, the real weapon of mass destruction is the handgun — author of at least 96 percent of firearms deaths, sayeth the FBI.
So, why focus on assault-style rifles? Personally, I don't. But reformers who think you have to start somewhere see them as low-hanging fruit.
But background checks — especially at gun shows — are a vital first step. And they include handgun sales.
There is no, repeat no, absolute right to murder kids for sport.
Apparently electing McKean, and a bandolier of Nevilles, didn’t do anything to stop the Maryland shooting either? WTF Hugh? . . .
I personally think it’s great wheneveg McKean and other dipshit Republicans mock these angry students!! Please keep it up!?!! (It will only serve to hasten and galvanize the day of their electoral revenge.)
Stay the course, Hugh! Someday soon the voters will properly thank you . . .
Has Skinny Winkler weighed in (no pun intended) yet on the subject of the Parkland high school kids?
Does McKean hold the seat formerly occupied by the notorious Jim Welker?
100 round magazines are indefensible. But banning them won't show up, if at all, except during years of a mass shooting incident. As even you recognize, the real weapon of mass destruction is the handgun — author of at least 96 percent of firearms deaths, sayeth the FBI.
So, why focus on assault-style rifles? Personally, I don't. But reformers who think you have to start somewhere see them as low-hanging fruit.
But background checks — especially at gun shows — are a vital first step. And they include handgun sales.
There is no, repeat no, absolute right to murder kids for sport.
. As the NRA spits on their corpses, it lets millions of young people know how corrupt the NRA, Tea Party, Koch Brothers alliance is. Eventually, these young peope will vote and we geezers will die off. That will be a better America in which Trump style fascism will die out.