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(D) J. Hickenlooper*
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80%
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Governor
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60%
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40%↓
Att. General
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40%
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CO-01 (Denver)
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95%
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June 17, 2018 08:31 AM UTC
54 Comments
"Lucia" has been in the US for 20 years and hasn't ever bothered to try for citizenship?
Wait times of up to 25 years to be able to apply for citizenship are common for people who came here illegally, are from Mexico, or other "capped" countries, according to Politifact and Rep. Sensenbrenner, who has introduced legislation to bring it down to "only" 13 years.
"Lucia" probably has a green card, or has applied for one from Guatemala, and is on the waiting list. So it's five years of residence – the lawful permanent resident" status to get the green card. Since she came in illegally, there is at least a 10 year wait – she'd have to go back to Guatemala, apply from there, and wait 10 years at least for a green card. That puts her "on the list". There are 4.4 million people on the Mexico list, millions on the Guatemala list. So if she has applied for a green card, she's still looking at at least a 10 year wait.
After she finally gets the green card, then she would have to pass the citizenship test, the English test, and complete the naturalization process. People do it, but it is a long and expensive and difficult process.
There really are different rules for someone who comes in legally or with a green card or work permit, vs. someone who came in illegally, without demanded skills, from countries for which we have immigration quotas. Even the first path takes 5-10 years; the second path takes from 15 years to "never".
"Why don't they just become citizens?" ignores the realities on the ground. It's why people say that the immigration system is broken, and why we've been trying to fix it for the last 30 years. Currently, there are several paths for someone to become a citizen: marriage, military service, work permit, cancellation of removal, asylum, and temporary protected status.
Since she was a victim of abuse and fleeing a civil war, she's probably pursuing asylum or temporary protected status.
And remember, AG Sessions just unilaterally took out the rules for victims of domestic violence or gang violence to apply for asylum. That is going to leave thousands of desperate people in limbo, fleeing situations in Honduras, Guatemala, Columbia, El Salvador, that the United States helped to create with its appetite for illegal drugs on one hand, and draconian “drug war” on the other.
Trump, and our waffling weasel reps like Coffman, are not backing up the young DREAMers like Cris – instead, they are trying to deport them, and their parents. Lucia’s kids are citizens, and under Obama, that gave her a legal path for protected status. Under Trump, never.
That said, I don't know the details of her particular situation,
AG Sessions just unilaterally took out the rules for victims of domestic violence
From Sessions' (and Trump's) perspective, no doubt, there wouldn't be domestic violence if women would just follow Ephesians and women be submissive to their husbands.
Clearly there is a need for a new guest worker program for migrants who do seasonal work here, and then return home.
The end statement about Lucia and so many of these mostly economic refugees: “she said.” How does one prove the veracity of peoples’ statements?
I understand peoples’ desire for a better situation. On my mom’s side of the family, I’m the first generation born into indoor plumbing. At the same time, how many more people can this country take in, especially those lacking in education and work skills? Overpopulation is an issue here; an issue that the “generic left” refuses to deal with. Maybe we would be better off using various highly rated NGOs to put money on the ground in Tegucigalpa, Guatemala City, San Salvador, rather than into pockets of ruling elites.
CHB, not sure what you mean here about “she said” – that she faced abuse and was fleeing a civil war?
the Guatemalan civil war , at least, is easy enough to verify. It was over in the late 80s, but 200,000 dead 40,000 disappeared. I can’t paste links as I’m not at my computer. So even though she left a decade later, it’s not hard to figure out that ther were lasting effects from that era.
Domestic abuse goes mostly unreported – if it gets to the level one has to flee the country to get away, there are probably police reports, hospital bills, etc. these are the same docs asylum seekers have to present, and what Sessions has just said he won’t accept any longer.
if you did mean that most of these DV victims are lying, I take pretty strong exception to that.
With your second question, I understand that farmers can’t get field workers, and there are other areas desperately needing workers.
sure it would be great to have reputable NGO s working in Central American countries. There are some. But by far, the greater influence on daily life is the mega corporation like Exxon or United fruit. And they are not the friend of the people.
CHB, it's no different than any time allegations need to be proven in court. You put on evidence, people testify, the decisionmaker decides whether to believe evidence or not. Not a hard concept, nor a novel one. Just one the administration does not want to engage in because it doesn't like non-white non-citizens
Not a hard concept, nor a novel one.
You would think so, Spaceman. But remember, we live in the post-truth world where people can and do make outrageous accusations (e.g., Obama was born in Kenya), then challenge anyone who disagrees to prove otherwise.
Judging by Puerto Rico, they're not too keen on non-white citizens, either.
Right. The Colorado Front Range population is exploding. How many more refugees from Red States with bad economics and bad health care systems can we take in. Maybe they can come for a few months to work on our yards and roofs, but then they need to go back to Arkansas or Texas or wherever.
Maybe we need economic development and guaranteed health care in Red States so the Front Range doesn't turn into LA.
I mean we need roofers, hotel maids, crop pickers, meat-packers, but we don't want them to stay.
Maybe we need economic development and guaranteed health care in Red States
Good luck with that. Those people are poor and stupid, and happy with it. (I know. I have relatives who live in South Carolina.)
You win the Internet today!!!
^^^this^^^
Mamajama, thanks for clarifying that there is no functional "line" for immigrants to get into to seek legal status or citizenship. We've heard the righties say for years "get in line," so most folks assume there is a "line," when in actuality it's an almost insurmountable barrier, particularly impossible for folks trying to flee drug violence, gang violence, domestic violence. Waiting for 10 or 15 years is a certain death sentence for many of these folks.
Indeed. People are fleeing threats of violence, rape, death in many of these countries now run primarily by cartels. And they are no joke. We in the us helped create cartels by buying drugs and then criminalizing users, but they’re established now.
So sure, go back home, apply for green card in US, try to stay alive, try to go back to US where one may have kids, job, House. Wait 10 years if you come from a country with many applicants for those work visas or green cards.
Try to get some marketable skills… if the school will let you in. This is why it’s critical to allow in state tuition for Dreamers. Learn English and get a better education in civics than most Americans so you can eventually get naturalized.
try to survive on low wages and high rent. The fact that so many eventually become citizens is a tribute to persistence and faith. It shouldn’t be that freaking hard. America is a nation of immigrants. Why are we closing the door now?
Good diary
+1
Nice job with the diary, mj. Factual and action oriented.
Thank you.
The scenario is awful, no matter the numbers. The 11,000 figure is, as best I can tell, from the Office of Refugee Resettlement, and comes as a description of all the minors in their custody. The Daily Beast says,
Some of them have been separated from their parents at the border, others were "unaccompanied minors" traveling without parents or other relatives. Some have been in custody since before this year and the "new" Trump policy.
As you might expect, this is another government program contracted out — and some of the descriptions of the capabilities of the contractors are pretty horrific. Growing the program quickly means growing pains, too, with inevitable glitches.
The only "silver lining" of this awful situation is it has triggered protests, petitions, and out and out condemnation in a variety of settings. Among the critical statements I've read from conservatives — Southern Baptist Convention, US Conference of Catholic Bishops, Orthodox Union, National Association of Evangelicals, Council for Christian Colleges and Universities, National Hispanic Christian Leadership Conference. Evangelical leader Franklin Graham. Plus the usual reactions from a wide range of other (mainstream and liberal) religious groups.
I wonder if those ardent right wing religious organizations are just talk, or if they will actually apply pressure on Sessions and Trump? I pray for the families it is the latter.
When you've lost Laura Bush, you've lost the P.R. battle.
And even Melania:
Melania Trump takes brave stand against her husband’s policies
http://ireader.olivesoftware.com/Olive/iReader/DenverPost/SharedArticle.ashx?document=TDP%5C2018%5C06%5C18&article=Ar02301
Doesn't Twitler and his band of
merrymiserable maroons relish any opportunity to irritate a Bush?Troubling situation, especially when a far right winger like Franklin Graham bails out on Trump. But when a single mom in Denver gets caught in a crime, do her kids go to jail with her?
Some questions for you who sympathize with these migrants. What is the current unemployment rate in the barrio of East LA? What is the current unemployment rate in the Dine and Hopi nations in the Four Corners area? Saw a recent article about lack of running water in these nations.
What is the current unemployment rate on Pine Ridge in South Dakota, or in the Blackfoot Nation in Montana? What’s the current housing situation in these nations, especially Pine Ridge?
What's the current unemployment rate in Puerto Rico? Is power back on yet, island wide, as it has been 9 months since the hurricanes? What is the unemployment rate in the US Virgin Islands, post hurricanes? How many of you have contributed to the re-building on these islands and helping people out?
My point is this. Perhaps you folks ought to be paying attention first to the needs of our own citizens.
I guess your cynicism has completely overwhelmed you. For you to cite the misery created by your "conservative" policies as a justification for ignoring the plight of those this nation pledged to help, all while pouring money into the accounts of the rich, is truly base.
Perhaps you greedy, heartless bastards should pay attention to the peril into which you have cast your mortal soul. The compartmentelization you practice is de-humanizing. I am appalled. I am rapidly losing respect for you..though I am sure that doesn't bother you.
BTW…All American taxpayers contributed to help Puerto Rico. If the T***p administration had done its job, the devastation would not have persisted as it did.
Duke: what you call "cynicism" for many is actually called "compassion fatigue." And I just love how you point fingers at "my" conservative policies. And "compartmentalization?" Where did I post on this site that I supported the tax cut for billionaires?
And, no, Duke, I'm not really caring whether you respect me or not. You have made it abundantly clear that you don't respect those who aren't totally with you in your individual and narrow opinion silo.
Regarding my “mortal soul,” or immortal…..I’m a free thinker. I don’t believe in the Christian religion. The Secular Humanist Manifesto is far more meaningful to me than the Christian bible. And, yes, I contribute money to charities that work with disadvantaged people. Have a nice day.
Oh, I did notice you didn't bother to answer any of my questions.
"Compassion fatigue"…yeah…right.
Play your word games with others, CHB. I no longer am interested.
John Kenneth Galbraith had your ilk figured out long ago…keep looking for a justification..
Compassion fatigue is fake, but I have been learning that outrage fatigue is very real.
It's not "fake," unnamed. I learned about it in the 1970s from people already in the social services field. Back then, we called it "burn out," from seeing so many bad situations and having limited ways to help people out. It grinds on you after a while and you have to get out of the field.
Bye Duke. Live long and prosper.
Banger, my bad. I shouldn't have called it "fake". I get burn out on so many fronts. But burn out isn't an excuse for draconian policies like this.
No worries, unnamed. We're cool.
And again, taking the human side of this major issue completely out, it is a major policy blunder by the Trump administration. An "unforced" turnover, to put it in sports lingo. Even if Sessions rescinds it all tomorrow and somehow tries to make it up, the Dems will make political "hay" with it in November unless they blow it.
to Duke.
We do need to take care of our citizens as well. But that doesn't justify doing something so Nazi-esque as to separate kids from parents when they have not committed a criminal act. They came across the border asking for asylum due to fears of them and their children being raped or killed. ICE and BP just decides to take their children away then.
Entering the country without authorization has been a criminal act for decades, unnamed. But look on the bright side of this clusterf***k fiasco. It should help the Dems regain the House in November if they can kick off their complacency.
Illegal Immigration is a civil issue, not a criminal one. http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2017/mar/15/florida-conference-catholic-bishops/being-united-states-unlawfully-crime/
Even if it is, this treatment is beyond justification.
Whether a misdemeanor or a felony or just a civil matter, still a crime.
And what? It's a crime so throw the book at them and torture their children? Yes, ripping children away from their families is a form of torture. Seems the punishment is more severe than the crime.
It's what was referred to at common law as malum prohibitum (basically a victimless crime which wrong because it is something illegal) in contrast to malum in se.
First, as others have pointed out, many if not most of these people are seeking asylum, escaping from extreme violence and the imminent threat of death. Seeking asylum is NOT a crime. Second, even if some are detained for crossing the border without proper documentation, it is a misdemeanor not a felony. Please tell me – what percentage of people in the US who commit misdemeanors are detained indefinitely? Aren't most given their freedom with the expectation that they show up for court proceedings?
I feel so sorry for these folks from Mexico and Central America who are trying to make a better life for themselves and their families. And I feel sorry (in a small way) for the righties who have no compassion and no empathy.
How many of these migrants, if released, will actually show up for a court hearing? And kindly refer back to my comment where I said that work should be done to help these people have a better life in their home countries.
As I just replied to Duke, Realist, I support charities that work with disadvantaged people; by "support," I mean giving money. But I prefer generally to focus on help first for American citizens.
As for feeling "so sorry" for these migrant situations, also recall that my main working career was in human services, here and in another state before I moved to Colorado. I saw a lot of poor people truly in need of help. I also saw a substantial amount of scams, fraud, rip-off schemes. There was a solid amount of domestic abuse, child abuse, gang violence, even threat of death, as you say.
One can't have a career like this and come out at the end as a "far leftie." Even someone like Duke might be surprised at what I saw in just a few months of inner city case work.
CHB — I agree we should be taking care of our own citizens, but your comparison is truly apples and oranges.
The immoral and cynical policy instituted by the Trump administration needs immediate attention. That is the point of all this discussion here, and across the nation.
The issues you raise about long-term poverty, crime and unemployment are equally important, and reflect a different set of issues entirely.
The difference is that there are mayors, councilpersons and state and local representatives that should be focused on those issues in local communities.
As for Native American communities, the systemic neglect and disempowerment by the Bureau of Indian Affairs, among other agencies, is a festering cancer on our government. I'm not an expert, so can't offer solutions — breaking the cycle of poverty — but it seems obvious that getting people out of the ghetto through better education, jobs and family support, would benefit the nation by leveraging a tremendous amount untapped talent, skills and individual genius that today is smothered by poverty, crime and lack of opportunity.
Davie: some years ago, misguided liberals in Denver wanted the city to guarantee a place to live for all residents of Denver. Fortunately, it failed due to lack of safeguards. My thought then was that if I was living in an unheated hovel in the middle of winter on Pine Ridge and heard about guaranteed housing, I would have been in Denver in a heartbeat. While well intended, it might have bankrupted the city.
And I agree on the Trump policy. As I already said, the Dems need to make "political hay" from this major mis-step by the administration.
Perhaps the question about our indigenous populations can be answered by the fact that when they do exercise their (theoretical) sovereignty the feds just can't help themselves? Or that money that was rightly theirs suddenly wasn't? Or that federal energy laws makes it complicated for them to develop their massive wind and solar resources?
I know their societal challenges are complex – but we haven't done much of anything to alleviate their woes through any genuine partnerships with our government.
But you see, Michael. CHB has fallen prey to "compassion fatigue", which, according to him makes it okay to "take the human side of the issue completely out" of the discussion. This allows one to deal only in numbers, statistics, policy, employment figures…since now humans aren't involved.
That way, you can couch yourself in academic discussions and feel all warm inside.
—————————————-
Please…President Macron…call that tyrant in the White House and demand the return of the statue. The United States is no longer worthy.
CHB –
A single mom in Denver caught for a misdemeanor does not have her kids taken away from her under the pretense of "having your picture taken for processing." Nor does she continue to have her kids isolated AFTER she is released, as some of these families have documented.
Moreover, a single mom showing up with her child and claiming asylum is NOT "caught in a crime." Our laws and our treaties explicitly recognize the right of people to appeal for asylum. While their claim is being assessed, they should not be coerced by threats of separation.
And tragic circumstances of other groups does not mitigate the tragedy of others. Just because there were large numbers of Jews killed does not mean we should overlook the suffering of the homosexuals or the Romany. Lack of power in Puerto Rico due to the Trump Sad!-ministration's amateur hour FEMA response does not somehow justify a lack of concern for asylum seekers.
Conservatives I've read and admired, such as Richard Weaver of the Southern Agrarians, believed in the notion of acting for moral duty. Those I've known and admired thought ALL humans had inalienable rights; that the US government ought to protect people from heartless policies; that the US government should live according to its own laws, even when they were not convenient. I thought you were among those people.
Instead, I'm finding you are justifying oppression of some due to a lack of perfection among others.
John: you can find whatever you want to find. I'll say that the hard right is wrong when they say deport everybody, including young people who were brought here as toddlers and have known no other country besides this one.
I'll say the hard left is wrong when they say that anyone who shows up at the border requesting asylum with an unprovable story should automatically be let in. The answer lies somewhere in the middle.
You say: "the US government ought to protect people from heartless policies….." How so? Are we to be the world's police officer? But, our country has always been very selective with that philosophy, haven't we? Just from the 1990s alone, we bombed the Serbs because of their ethnic cleansing of Bosnian Muslims. But we ignored the genocide in Rwanda.
In more recent times, we waltzed into an unnecessary war in Iraq on a non-existent pretext that Saddam had WMDs. Saddam’s prior genocide of Kurds in the north and Shia Muslims in the south had little meaning for us. But then the Syrian dictator got little more than “bad boy” words from us, even from President Obama.
CHB- It's the law. Someone who shows up at the border requesting asylum must be "let in". That's not "hard left", it's the freaking Constitution.
Their story may or may not be "unprovable", but that is why there is a process including a court hearing. Trump despicably calls this "catch and release" , as if were talking about undersized trout, not human beings. It's part of that whole dehumanization playbook.
The other illegal part is to prosecute all asylum-seekers as criminals, when seeking asylum is not a crime.
You may or may not like that law, but it is the law, and our President, Attorney General, Homeland Secretary, and so many others are flouting it.
MJ: I don't think the authors of the law ever envisioned tens of thousands of people showing up at our doorsteps.
And, by the way, it isn't necessarily in the "freaking Constitution," as you call it. Unless you're referring to somewhat vague and archaic language in Article 1, Sections 8 & 9. Said language has probably been clarified by the 200+ years of constitutional case law; finding same could be a worthy project for your summer hours.
If it is indeed a constitutional issue, are you aware of anyone suing Trump and Sessions on constitutional grounds and seeking immediate relief via injunction?
Actually, yes, the framers of the Constitution were eminently familiar with tens of thousands of people showing up at the docks, if not the doorstep. They were emigrating from Europe and seeking the promise of "America", gold, glory and the Gospel, and yes, freedom from persecution, aka asylum.
Our entire national myth is based on the Pilgrims (aka the Puritans) seeking to "worship their own way," because they were persecuted in England. Didn't you ever get to be in a Thanksgiving play? What would have happened if the native peoples had said, not just "No", but "Hell, no!"?
On the legal question, you're partly right – asylum in the us is grounded in statute, specifically the Refugee Act of 1980. However, due process, and equal treatment under the law, which uphold how people seeking asylum should be treated – those are Constitutional.
Your point about Native peoples accepting refugees from Europe is compelling. Had there been an indian named Beauregard at Plymouth Rock, the genocide of native peoples and the occupation of what is now North and South America might never have happened…And where would all those racist bastards be now?
If there were Indians named Beauregard at Plymouth Rock, Duke, the damage would have already happened!
Native American Council Offers Amnesty to 220 Million “Undocumented Whites” Living in the U.S.
A council of Native American leaders has offered partial amnesty to the estimated 220 million illegal white immigrants living in the United States.
The “white” problem has been a topic of much debate in the Native American community for centuries, and community leaders have decided the time has come to properly address it.*
At a meeting of the Native Peoples Council (NPC) in Albuquerque, New Mexico … , Native American leaders considered several proposals on the future of this continent’s large, unauthorized European population. The elders ultimately decided to extend a pathway to citizenship for those without criminal backgrounds.
“We are prepared to offer White people the option of staying on this continent legally and applying for citizenship,” explains Chief Wamsutta of the Wampanoag nation.
“In return, they must pay any outstanding taxes and give back the land stolen from our ancestors.
“Any white person with a criminal record, however, will be deported in the next 90 days back to their ancestral homeland.
Rush Limbaugh will be going to Germany. Justin Bieber will depart for Canada.
And the entire cast of Jersey Shore will be returning to Italy.”
Illegal white immigration has been rapidly increasing for nearly 400 years from the European countries of France, Spain and England.
These illegals have ravished the land and colonized areas occupied by the natives.
– Originally published in Native American News. It's satire, unfortunately.
This will please M.J. It makes me happy, too.
https://www.denverpost.com/2018/06/18/immigrant-family-separation-colorado-stance/
That's good…..it won't have a lot of applicability, but could make it impossible for a social worker or teacher or police officer on the state payroll to separate kids from families….there are exceptions for constitutional and crime-fighting issues and child abuse.
Joe Salazar had been asking Hick to support the Ralph Carr Freedom Defense Act , aka HB 17 1230, which basically covered this issue of not using state resources for Trump's immigration agenda. (HB1730 would have prevented creation of a Muslim registry). Hick refused to support it. That bill died in committee.
Hick was doing his usual dodge and weave act, saying the proper things, but not signing anything or supporting specific legislation.
So today that was, honestly, an ambush. People came together really quickly and discreetly on social media, and showed up en masse at the Capitol to beg Hick to sign this letter. Which he did. Sometimes you have to be sneaky to get things done in politics.