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March 16, 2010 03:49 PM UTC

Tuesday Open Thread

  • 54 Comments
  • by: Colorado Pols

“What I was going to say,” said the Dodo in an offended tone, “was, that the best thing to get us dry would be a Caucus-race.”

–From Lewis Carroll’s Alice in Wonderland

Comments

54 thoughts on “Tuesday Open Thread

    1. Imagine if we could harness the negative energy of every critic of the President and convert it to forward-thinking action — convincing others one by one that we need to reform health care!  We would actually have all 59 votes, I’m sure. David Sirota’s energy alone would probably be worth two.

      1. As you know, I’ve supported an effort to examine single payer. Every business owner would likely be forced to accept this as a solution because it lays-off all their healthcare costs and lets them focus on thier business.

        The line of questioning would be … do we as Americans want a single payer process, are we willing to buyout the health insurance companies, are we willing to face the “rationing” debate, and are we willing to have an honest discussion on growing the government at 330 million X some cost/person?

        1. ‘tad, every single thing you post doesn’t even meet the threshold of delusional rants. Every single thing you “propose” is so much talking point drivel I’m amazed you don;t have you own radio talk show on KOA.

          1. I just wanted to lay them out – they are valid issues the opposition would raise.

            I find it sad that you don’t you want to have a discussion about the merits of single payer.

            The answers to these questions are easy:

            1. Are we willing to buyout insurance cos – hey everything is for sale.

            2. Rationing debate – the point is moot, Medicare/Caid has not faced these issues and that is the model, right?

            3. Taxpayer cost – lets say buying out the insurance companies is a $200 billion nut.  Look at the synergies of increasing the insurance pool to all 330 mill Americans.  That’s gotta drive the cost down to $4-5k/family of four.  We simply need to debate who pays and what taxes will be used to fund it.

            Why do you oppose building on the Medicare/Caid model to expand coverage?  Why do you support paying off the insurance companies by turning this thing into some kind of utility?

            1. 1.  Why buy insurance companies out?  It’s called the market place, you know, capitalist heaven.  People would switch pronto, first because of the lower rates, then as they hear about neighbors not being denied coverage.

              2.  Many, many progressives have said we just need to expand Medicare to everone, or call it Part E for “Everyone.”  Done deal.  Three percent administrative overhead vs. thirty three percent.  Two hundred thousand dollar a year government directors vs. 700 million dollars a year CEO’s.

              1. I think you want to insurance companies for their systems, customer base, etc.  

                Of course as you point out the government could just set up the rules so that the private health insurance biz dries up and frankly that would set a precident for other industries that you could slowly take over.

                I doubt you want to be seen as creating even more unemployment though, you’ve done enough damage already.

                Using a carrot would show your policy is not hollow, although nationalistic, it rewards investors in the spirit of capitalism.  Call it a transitional private to public move for economic and health security.

                1. iI think if the govt DID offer single payer at a reasonable premium it would force private insurers to compete on the same basis. IF the private insurers quit the health care biz there are still lots of things to insure against. OTHER insurance would also likely be less expensve as Blue Cross moved into auto, casualty, etc. Then there are always the health supplemental insurances.

                  Insurance companies have quit on communities really fast when there are too many claims. Every time there is a hurricane season with large losses there are companies that leave FL and TX with no apparent concern for their employees.

                2. After fucking the American public for decades, without KY, fuck ’em.

                  We owe them nothing.  They owe us.

                  Customer lists, base?  Ha ha ha….. A phone book will do.

                  1. Sure, no one loves insurance co’s until you need them to cover your back. Hey I get it you hate paying premiums like you hate paying taxes.

                    So yeah I hear you “Fuck ’em”, what’s another 16% of the economy in the unemployment line.

          1. They are simply asking for the debate to be heard; I’m asking for the Single Payer to be explored.

            What CFO-CEO-GC-Board wouldn’t go along with ouotsourcing the healthcare benfit to the government?  Maybe the insurance co’s and wall street financiers, but that is what the government merger and acquisition of the health insirance businesses is all about.

            If you are worried they’ll call it nationalization then just say so.

    1. Steve Benen fingers the latest Republican hysteria over Democrats using rules Republicans thought were just fine when they ran things:

      For a while, Republicans were awfully worked up about using the reconciliation process to pass a health-care related budget fix, despite the GOP’s repeated use of the same procedure. Now Republicans are headed for the fainting couch over use of the self-executing rule, despite the GOP’s repeated reliance on the same procedure.

      Republican hypocrisy apparently knows no bounds.

      It’s a familiar pattern — Republicans open doors, and then whine incessantly when Democrats walk through them.

      1. “It’s a familiar pattern — Republicans open doors, and then whine incessantly when Democrats walk through them.”

        Imagine the Republican angst if a Dem President decided they liked the unitary Presidency concept so adored by the Bush Administration.  Or how about the John Yoo theory of Presidential power: If the President does it/wants it, then by definition it’s right.

    1. Thanks. I’ll pass. But it is sweet to see you front page every pro Romanoff diary. Every candidate needs a blog that loves him, right? 🙂

      Bennet has Pols.

      Romanoff has you.

    2. Not unless and until he produces video of him knocking out The Greatest,  Muhammed Ali.

      Now, Ali is still alive. But knocking him down now would just be mean. Though I’m still not sure AR is able even if AR was willing.  So unless you are suggesting Andrew had some secret life experiences when he was younger (and, really, who hasn’t  wink wink ) you owe Muhammed Ali an apology.

      1. Stings like a bee,

        The one and the… #cough#,

        Andrew Romanoff!”

        Again, we have two great candidates, and I look forward to supporting whichever one becomes our Democratic candidate for the U.S. Senate.

        Remember, folks, be civil tonight! Even if someone else in the room chooses not to be.

        1. it’s those #@$%^^! scumbags supporting some other candidate that will start insulting people!  I do, however, reserve the right to poop on Glenn Beck if he shows up at my caucus.  Or on anyone who quotes Glenn Beck favorably.

  1. From the AP

    The King of Pop’s estate has signed the biggest recording deal in history: a $200 million guaranteed contract with Sony Music Entertainment for 10 projects over seven years, according to a person familiar with the deal.

    The record-breaking contract through 2017 could be worth up to $250 million if certain conditions are met. One of the albums will be of never-before-released Jackson recordings that will come out in November, the person said.

    Jackson follows a long list of prematurely deceased performers like Elvis, Jim Morrison, Jimmy Hendrix, Curt Cobain, and  others for whom death was a great career move.

    This should be welcome news to those who lost their jobs in the Great recession and thought their careers were “dead”. Fear not, even if you die, there’s still hope for your careers.    

      1. Does the Washington Post have no shame in making that headline?

        Of course there will be a vote.  It’s part of the reconciliation bill: “In passing this measure, we accept the Senate amendments to [gutted and replaced with the Senate’s HCR bill] H.R. 3590.”

        Vote on the reconciliation package and part of what you’re voting for is the Senate bill.

        1. It’s that dumb blogger. His post doesn’t even clearly link to the Washington Post story, but to some House rule document. Everyone but the Republican gasbags knows how common this procedure was under Republican rule.

          I’ll quote again from Steven Benen’s take on it:

          It’s a familiar pattern — Republicans open doors, and then whine incessantly when Democrats walk through them.

          Bunch of whiney-ass babies. No offense to actual babies.

      2.  RedGreen,

        What am I flat out lying about exactly?  As the Washington Post reported, which I linked in my article, the House is essentially going to do it vote on a set of popular changes to the Senate version of the bill and then ‘deem’ the whole bill passed.  The vote is only on the amendments to the part of the reconciled Senate bill, not the bill itself.  Its a procedural sleight of hand.  

        As I noted in my post, I am a fervent supporter of health care reform. I would just like our elected officials to be accountable for the legislation that they pass.  In this case, health care reform passes, but vulnerable Democrats won’t have to explain for their vote on it because there wasn’t one on the actual bill, just the fixes to it.  

        On the substance of my blog, I stand by it. Although I support the reform package, I believe that process is as important as substance.

        With respect to my Washington Post link,  I made a mistake linking it. My apologies for that.  I have since fixed it.  

        Also, forgive my ‘Blog Whoring.’I am new to both blogging and this website.  If someone would be so kind as to show me proper decorum, it would be appreciated.

        Best,

        Ryan

  2. ISSUE RESOLUTION

    TO BE SENT TO THE COUNTY PLATFORM COMMITTEE

    AS DEMOCRATS, AS COLORADANS:

    WE STAND for the idea that a well-regulated financial sector is a cornerstone of the American prosperity;

    WE STAND for consumers and taxpayers being protected from the power of an under regulated financial sector;

    WE STAND against multinational banks and insurers dictating the type of regulation they are subject to: the US or Colorado government does not need to ask Citibank or AIG’s permission before they enact regulation.

    WE STAND against burying unreasonable terms in financial contract fine print, while touting misleading terms in bold letters in their advertising;

    WE STAND for the working people and believe in their right to start over through fair bankruptcy: no one should be an indentured servant to a bank because they lost their job, got sick, or were duped by the fine print;

    WE STAND for People before Profits;

    WE BELIEVE “political expediency” is just another way of saying “lack of leadership” and we believe that Democrats must LEAD in these tough times;

    WE BELIEVE you don’t win battles by walking away from the tough challenges.

    Our Democratic values and beliefs are worth fighting for;  

    WE BELIEVE If Republican elected officials want to join us in reining in an out of control financial sector, we will welcome them, but if they prefer profits on the backs of people, we will rein in the financial sector without their help.  They can fight for the banks; we will fight for the American people.

    WE THEREFORE:

    CALL on the Colorado General Assembly to consider the needs of consumers first when it comes to the insurance and banking industry;

    CALL on our federal elected officials to restore much of the regulatory environment enacted after the financial collapse of the Great Depression and to adopt new consumer protections;

    I know its Quixotic, but it makes me feel better.

    1. Seriously?

      When we all told you last August that listening to right-wing talk radio was bad for your health, you told us “Pshaw!” Now look what’s happened. You actually used the phrase “Rush is reporting,” instead of “Rush is making shit up.”

  3. http://blogs.westword.com/late

    At first blush (and second) (and third), marijuana advocate Mason Tvert and Jon Caldara, frontman for the conservative Independence Institute, are strange bedfellows.

    But today, they’re partners in a legal love match. They’re among the plaintiffs suing Colorado Secretary of State Bernie Buescher over laws intended to prevent fraud when collecting signatures for ballot measures. (Read the document here.) And arguing on their behalf is none other than attorney David Lane, who’s represented everyone from controversial former CU prof Ward Churchill to Ballon Boy dad Richard Heene.

    Lane says:

    “Now, the legislature allegedly is completely concerned about fraud in the signature-gathering process, so they’ve thrown down hurdle after hurdle after hurdle to combat it. But it’s pretty clear to me is that their real interest is in stopping what they see as harebrained petitions from making the ballot and mucking up the laws in the state of Colorado.

    “The Colorado constitution mandates this form of direct democracy, which apparently offends people in the legislature, who are more comfortable with the idea of representative democracy.”

    1. Recognize that everyone, whether they are popular or not, deserve attorneys.

      I have deep respect for them as lawyers and defenders of constitutional rights.

      Whilst I disagree with the client’s position on this (sorry Mason), I absolutely support Caldera and Mason getting some of the best civil rights attorney’s around.

    2. A legislature “more comfortable with the idea of representative democracy.”

      The legislature damned well better be on the side of representative democracy. It’s what the U.S. Constitution calls for.

      Direct democracy allows the loons foist their hair-brained schemes (like TABOR) on the rest of us.

      1. But our state constitution gives every loon the right to propose any change to the constitution. If you think that’s not a good idea (I’d like to see it be a lot harder), then get an initiative on the ballot to change it.

        But don’t propose legislative end runs around what is clearly in the constitution – that’s anti-democratic.

        1. creates the context within which interests are pursued via strategic interactions and pacified conflicts, not the context which determines what is and is not fundamentally ethical or unethical (not to say that it doesn’t track, to some extent, what is ethical and unethical). If an interest that one considers fundamentally ethical and in service to the public good can be pursued within that context, though in a way which others can characterize as “and end run around what is clearly in the constitution,” then they are well within their rights, both legally and morally, to do so.

        2. a legal strategy (one that is legal, that is) cannot be an end run around the constitution; it can only be a more or less well-executed play on the field and according to the rules of the game established by the constitution.

          Law is the process of precisely defining the rules, not of creating the underlying morality which informs them.

          Of course, the fact that others may feel differently, and that a particular strategy may provoke certain reactions with certain consequences, is all part of what determines how well or how poorly conceived the legal strategy actually was.

  4. It really is time that our leaders really think people

    Already this has been said a hundred times, but I will not tire of repeating another 300 million times.

    I can’t believe only 50 people  stop the growth of his own country in health,

    We need take the streets to make our voices heard.

    What do you think?

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