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April 14, 2007 01:20 AM UTC
30 Comments
are conservatives always so up in arms about English competency? From my point of view it seems more like legislating so that you do not have to wonder what the brown skinned folks might be saying about you in your presence.
Is it really that uncomfortable to hear another language being spoken? I was speaking Gaelic with a friend in the mall the other day and was amazed at who uncomfortable some people were! WTF?
We’re afraid of what “brown people” say. What crap.
How about we not teach them english, so they’re confined to low paying manual labor jobs. Let’s not teach them the skills they’ll need to get ahead in life. Let’s condemn them to the lowest of the low in our country.
If we don’t require people to learn english, that’s what is most likely going to happen.
I am all for English competency, obviously. Is anyone out there against it? I have not met them.
Sorry if I offended you but I honestly question why conservatives are always accusing liberals of ignoring students. R’s want to pass a mandate for schools on one hand and not fund education adequately on the other. That is, IMO, very hypocritical.
I think we do tremendous damage to our nation and our families when we create stigmas associated with speaking a different language. I wish that my ancestors had not abandoned Gaelic in favor of “blending in”.
What exactly do you think this kind of legislation should accomplish? And how?
If you want to know, ask. But the whole “afraid of what brown people say” suggests a stereotype that republicans are afraid of minorities. That’s pretty crappy, if you ask me.
I just did.
“What exactly do you think this kind of legislation should accomplish? And how?”
$8000/student in Colorado. Let’s see… average class size of, say 25 kids makes for $200,000 per classroom in Colorado for the 9.5 month teaching period. Yup. Definitely not enough money… OR… maybe it’s an issue of mismanaging the funds? For example, in Colorado Springs D-11 spends more than half it’s money on administration. IMHO… that’s mismanagement. What company in the world spend more than half it’s budget on “administration” instead of the services it provides to its customers?
You think $8000 per student is high? You mean what most states were spending on each child back in 2000, is *high*? That is a joke, and an insult to Colorado kids.
Thanks for making my point.
Your assertion that D11 spends “more than half it’s money” on administration is either a deliberate lie, or pure ignorance.
Of their total budget of $222,546,646 they spend $2,075,436 on General Administration thats right folks a whopping . . .
1%! of the budget. Gasp.
I am not sure where you got your information on the current D11 budget, but you are way off.
Sorry, my ADD kicked in. What should this kind of legislation accomplish? Give all people the basic understanding of English they will need to be economically competitive in an English speaking country, thus allowing them the chance to pursue and or fulfill the American dream.
How? Teach them until they learn.
What you just posted was pure rhetoric. What would you like the bill to actually do?!
To set standards of English competency to be achieved before graduation! Is it really that hard to wrap your mind around? Maybe that’s because you have trouble understanding the English language. What would you like accomplished? Public schools spitting out people who are confined to a minority community because they can’t communicate? That’s a freaking great idea.
“To set standards of English competency to be achieved before graduation!”
We already have those!
You keep saying what you want the bill to accomplish, not how you want to accomplish it or what those standards should be that differ from current ones!
You can get personal all you want, you still have not answered the question.
I’m not a legislator, and I don’t have all the regulations in front of me, I’m sorry. All I can say is what I want. Is that your problem with the bill, that it didn’t say what exactly needed to be done? It left the ball in the school district’s court. At least it’s a step in the right direction-saying what it is that you want. It gives you time to figure out how to get there.
But if that’s not good enough, then let’s go ahead and do nothing.
That’s the message that the legislature sent, and to be frank, you’re sending too.
You’re kidding right? I don’t know what Kool-Aid you’ve been drinking Druid but your number COULD NOT BE more incorrect.
It’s been documented about a hundred times that the D-11 budget is incredibly heavy on the admin side. I’ll pull up some documentation and post a whole little diary if you want. 🙂
And yes – $8000 IS HIGH. We spend less money in 24 months training pilots in the Air Force to fly F-22s than in the same 24 months teaching our 5th graders. Or perhaps you want to compare red apples to red apples… fine… St. Mary’s high school in Colorado Springs charges about $6000/year per student. And they can’t do fun things like mill levies for capital improvements like public schools can. So, ummmm… YUP… $8000 (or in the case of D11 in 2006, 11K/kid) is plenty.
I would like those numbers please. And I am calling BS on your quip about air force pilots.
The problem is that you are comparing red apples (public schools) to japanese apple pears (St. Mary’s-Cherry Hills). St. Mary’s is an all-girls, private high school that can self select the students that it lets in and those it doesnt. On top of that, teachers do not have to be licensed by the state, are generally paid less (in some cases 300 a month plus the use of a car and residence), and dont offer the special curriculum that you will find at some public schools (such as International Baccalaureate programs).
Show the numbers or shut your trap. Does the phrase but down the crack pipe mean anything to you? 😀
“It’s been documented about a hundred times that the D-11 budget is incredibly heavy on the admin side.”
Then show us.
Here is the actual
D11 budget for those with half a brain. You either dispute my assertion with some real documentation or keep your pie-hole shut.
You are wrong on some many levels it is laughable, no wait, pathetic. It costs 6 million dollars to train a pilot to full competence. For the real numbers click here.
Another story of interest regarding the D11 budget, by the Gazette.
are liberals so intent on creating a generation of illiterates? Reading comprehension is one of the most important skills that one can possess, but it seems to be that the current public education system doesn’t care if the kids they are cranking out can read or not. I can think of nothing more frightening than the creation of a class of citizens who cannont comprehend the issues they are voting on because they can’t read past the 5th grade level.
As to the speaking other languages, it doesn’t bother me if someone talks to a friend in a mutual language. It does bother me that someone who wants to take up residence in this country doesn’t want to learn our language. It’s just as rude as if I went to Mexico or Japan (my dream vacation) and insisted that everyone I met understand my English language pronunciations.
As long as it’s lacking, they have a problem to fix. As long as they have a problem to fix, they can “care” about the children and use the teacher unions. Why fix a problem if it benefits you?
you honestly have people from out of the country coming up and demanding that you speak their language?
Bullshit.
Apparently not. Do people come up and demand that I learn their language? No. At least I don’t think so. They’re not speaking english so I don’t know what they’re saying. Plus I don’t hang out in those kinds of areas. Why’s that important? Because immigrants who don’t learn the language are confined to the sorts of areas I don’t usually go.
But the heart of liberalism is understanding and acceptance. If I don’t go out of my way and learn their language and accept that they should be able to come here and not be a part of our society, I’m some sort of heartless racist. Why not make it a requirement that people be competent in english? Give me one good reason why this bill should have been killed.
we are talking about a *Colorado* law right? How is California relevant?
Secondly, I am not called you a racist I am calling you a linguaphobe. 😀
Thirdly, we do have English competency standards in every school district in the state already. The state government already polices this through CSAP scores and other requirements. So there are your “one good reason”s.
Why should the government make yet another top-down mandate, when school boards (manned by local citizens) can do this (and have already) themselves?
“we are talking about a *Colorado* law right? How is California relevant?” Have you seen the amount of people moving here from CA? Do you want their problems?
“Secondly, I am not called you a racist I am calling you a linguaphobe. :-D” Ha! Really, that was good. I appreciate the smile, it’s been a long day!
“Thirdly, we do have English competency standards in every school district in the state already. The state government already polices this through CSAP scores and other requirements. So there are your ‘one good reason’s.”
Because standards always need to be revisited, and new standards set. The status quo isn’t good enough. What’s wrong with setting the standard higher?
Why should the government make yet another top-down mandate, when school boards (manned by local citizens) can do this (and have already) themselves?”
The mandate was for the local officals to revisit their standards and set new ones. The bill wasn’t saying what the standards are, but that the issue needed to be revisited. So the state says “set new standards” and the local officials decide what the new standards would be. What’s wrong with that?
the requirements I have no real problem with, although I am far more concerned about legislation that has to do with math and science scores. We have different priorities, which is fine. 😉
I definitely take issue, however, with the original post (which I know that you did not write) saying that “liberals”, and Merrifield in particular, think that English competency is unimportant.
We simply feel that there are other priorities worth addressing right now, and I personally have little problem with current requirements. That does not mean that I “do not care” about English competency.
I think it best left up to local school boards. Are there problems? Yes. Another mandate from government, IMO, is not the solution.
“the requirements I have no real problem with, although I am far more concerned about legislation that has to do with math and science scores. We have different priorities, which is fine. ;-)” This is a debate that’s easy for both sides to get pigeon holed in. I have similar feelings for the subjects of math and science. But I got stuck on english…. Like you said, different priorities.
Fun chatting with you, sorry if it seemed like I was getting personal earlier!
man. Sometimes passion for a topic can get out of hand. Apologies from my end as well.
whom I like, or is it “who I like”? Damn English standards. Help Cuervo!
But I get tired of the State giving more homework for the local districts. Each mandate sounds good on its face, but the ever growing mountain of mandates just clogs the local system, costs man hours and money, and takes time from the kids. Let the locals decide what is important to emphasize in each school.
You like him. (You don’t like he.)
🙂
And, other than the part about Mitchell, I generally agree with your post.
In either event, it’s not clear to me how the defeated bill would’ve changed the status quo. Can’t local schools districts ALREADY decide to do a better of teaching English to students? Why do we need another state law to give them such authority?
but school districts must follow curriculum and standards established by the CO Board of Education for second language learners.
Where did you go GOPpundit? Strange that after I posted the *real* D11 budget you went silent?
What a surprise! 😉