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June 12, 2007 03:21 PM UTC

Tuesday Open Thread

  • 62 Comments
  • by: Colorado Pols

Whew! That’s a relief.

Comments

62 thoughts on “Tuesday Open Thread

    1. I would have loved to have seen Lamborn stumble his way through a panel discussion on economics.  Anyone know if he actually participated in the discussion or did this just list that he attended with that as an excuse for them to pay his way? 

      1. Anyone who knew more than he did, he yelled back at ’em to “shut up”.

        Like R’s and D’s alike, there’s no sense Lamborn is an expert on economics.  Having Lamborn on such a panel is like having Mongo the Caveman on an Olympic panel scoring ice dance competitions.  He had to be totally outclassed.

      1. Lamborn liked to say he had no control over the “outside parties” like the Club for Growth, as he liked to call them that slandered his opposition.  Maybe it’s just that they control him.  Certainly the CFG is making it cushy for Jeanie and Doug to take a nice little trip. 

    2. Lamborn 6-1, crank 4-1.  But you have to admit, CD-5 is a pro-incumbent district and while lamborn is inept, he hasn’t committed any huge gaffes or been involved in any scandals.  I hope Crank runs, but he still faces a major up-hill battle

      1. Has any major incumbent official been turned out of office in Colorado in recent history (within past 30 or 40 years, say)? By major I mean Governor, US Senator, US Representative.

        The only thing I can think of is McNichol’s defeat as mayor of Denver in 1983, but I didn’t include mayor in my list because Denver is about the only municipality big enough to consider the mayor a major incumbent official and that just didn’t seem fair to the rest of the state.

        1. I can’t think of one either….I want to say that Scott McInnis got elected to Congress by defeating an incumbent, but I’m not sure…I’ll have to check.

          I wish it weren’t so, because I’m a huge Crank fan.  I think if anyone can break the cycle, it would be him.  But it’s also important to be realistic about the challenges he will face if he does challenge Lamborn

          1. when Haskell, lightly regarded former state legislator who had switched from the Republican party and got the dem nomination defeated two-term (i think) u.s. Sen. Gordon Allott.

      2. There’s something in these that I think will point the way, especially Demogirl’s work. 

        http://www.coloradop…  Lamborn dodged the bullet with Erin Emery in 2006.  This time, I strongly suspect she’s going to be less trusting.

        http://www.coloradop
        I would not know who, but, I cannot believe that this is not known to some diligent investigative reporter who will take some interest in it. 

        Let us hold judgment for a season. But Lamborn’s supporters are not cheerily chiming in to refute the kinds of questions now coming to light about Lamborn.  They are deaf, dumb, and mute for the moment.

        1. Even after a book was written on all his misspeakings. 

          “There are doctors all over America who can’t practice their, uh, uh, love for women.”  Jeeee-zuz! What a fucking moron.  Not MY president.

          Yet, just over half the voters re-elected him for a position that requires brains. 

        2. I can see highlighting his complete lack of competence hurting him somewhat, but I can’t think of any “scandals” off the top of my head-no money in a freezer or choked mistress.  Correct me if I’m wrong, please.  I would love to see Crank in office instead of Lamborn, but for Crank to make a real run he has to come at Lamborn with more than “you suck and nobody likes you”

          1. Maybe her “Part Three” doesn’t meet it for you.  That’s the one where a Denver paper actually awarded Lamborn one of its dubious achievement awards. But, anytime a sitting member in the Colorado legislature is voting on legislation in the circumstances in which Lamborn was involved, and does not disclose it to the legislature that is scandalous, by my way of definition.  That wasn’t ever brought up in the 2006 campaign, as far as I can recall, anyway.  But, Haners, you’re asking questions about what is currently known, not about that which has yet to be revealed.  Give things time, and maybe you’ll find published in the future the kind of things that would fit your definition of scandalous–albeit, not necessarily the two specific examples you gave. 

            1. I pray that you’re right.  My examples were to just illustrate a point.  If there’s something else out there that could bring him down, then I anxiously await the news.  But assuming that all we will have to work with is what is currently known, Crank has his work cut out for him. 

              The day Crank announces, I will donate what I can to the cause….

  1. You know that old calculus puzzle that they threw around in high school?
    If you jump half the distance from one fixed point to another end point each time you  jump, when will you reach the end point?  The answer is never.

    The dems have had three legislative disasters in a row…War in Iraq funding, immigration, and now the confidence vote on Gonzalez….they are not passing anything…only jumping short of the mark, each time….I don’t understand it.

    Salazar’s style was suited to being in the minority in the Senate…but now that the dems are in charge…he is ineffective…The dems are acting like they are still in the minority and the repubs are acting like they are in charge….

    1. Granted, it’s hard to come up with a veto-proof percentage on most issues.  As to the immigration bill, even dubya coulndn’t convince a lot of the R’s to go along.  I think it would have had the same disasterish results if introduced under an R congress. The people spoke.

      1. The immigration bill was a colossally bad idea.  I’d like to see real enforcement coupled with a guest worker program that gives those illegals already here a reasonable opportunity to clear out in an orderly fashion and a merit-based immigration program.  If Australia can do it, why can’t we? 

    2. We’ve beaten the Iraq funding vote to death in previous threads. Suffice it to say I disagree that it was a “disaster”

      Curious as to why the immigration bill failure was the Dems fault? Seems to me the Dems delivered most of their caucus and it was the President who couldn’t muster any support from Senate R’s. I’d suggest checking that vote again.

      Why was the noconfidence vote a disaster? They have a majority of the US Senate on record as having no confidence in the AG and 7 Republican’s voted with them. Strategically I think it was anything but a disaster.

      As for the Dems acting like they are in the minority – well it takes 60 members in the Senate to have a working majority so effectively they are still in the minority. House Dems have been more effective because you only need a simple majority.

      Can you cite some specific examples of Salazar being ineffective?

      1. Dems do not have a veto proof majority in the Senate; but, they are far from the minority.  They control the Senate agenda and calendar; they CHAIR all the committees.  They should not be introducing bills they do not have the votes to pass.  Their legislative strategy sucks. The Republicans stop them and instead of looking like roadblocks, the repubs look real powerful and the dems look real stupid….I am talking about strategy, not content.

        Salazar failed to inform his constitutency in a timely manner about the immigration bill and he failed to garner wide spread public support for it,
        He is a consensus player; works the angles….fine when your party is in the minority…..but he does not reach out to the public….

        I had thought that the one good thing that we had with a dem victory in 2006 was that we would not attack Iran.  Now comes Liberman, the Independent, back from Iraq, calling for an attack on Iran…and he is the linchpin to Democratic control in the Senate….

      2. if the Rs keep blocking things that the majority of Dems support and polls show the majority of the public also suports, maybe enough voters will realize the only way to move in the direction they want (or to move at all) is to elect more Dems along with a Dem President in 2008.  Indies like moderates but clearly not enough moderate Rs are willing to make the big break. That leaves Dems. Pretty much the story of what happened here in Colorado in the last election.

      1. Gonzales has done so much damage to the DoJ. He’s incompetent and ethically bankrupt. And now there’s proof that he’s broken the law.

        Time to go. The question is, will the Dems have the stones to start the proceedings?

      2. ….but I don’t recall her saying anything about the Marquis de Sade Gonzales being off limits……that would be one way to get the Senate to cast an up-or-down vote of no confidence in Alberto!

    3. what is stunning is how ineffectual the Rs were at governing when they controlled the executive, house and senate.

      on the otherhand their mastery of political manuevering makes makes me as a D envious. their discipline to party and mastery of institutional manipulation reminds me of the French within the EU.  Maybe now that sarkozy leads france the Rs wont mind being compared to france

  2. Had this group calling my house doing polling two nights in a row.

    Can someone tell me if they are polling for the R’s or D’s?
    Who are they?

    Thanks in advance for your replies.

    1. Who are your elected Congressional, state house and state senate districts for where you live?  That would be interesting to know in connection with the questions they asked of you.

    2. Could be a market research firm out of Idaho. I don’t think they’re affiliated.  CD-5 is right, look at the questions: both what they cover and how they are worded.

  3. Todd Vitale and Sandra Hagen Solin of Capitol Solutions ran a GOP push poll in Fort Collins pushing a huge tax increase. Not only did they get their numbers hopelessly mixed up and invalidate their whole poll (they understated the tax increase by a factor of 10), they are trying to say the results were somehow still valid!

    Here is Sandra: “We are certain that any poll of the RTA ballot language would have come up with the same results and that is that voters are in favor of this (RTA) plan.”

    Here is Todd: “We take full responsibility for the error and we feel terrible about it. But at the same time, we come back to the substance of the poll and its results and we feel they are grounded.”

    What’s happening to the world where the hacks can’t even do their push polling right these days? Nice way to burn through your client’s money.

  4. was reading about his ideas to fix the constitution’s conflicting budget mandates.  I think his idea is pretty good.  But it got me thinking isn’t romanoff term limited?  He needs to start thinking about a new job, he’s too effective to let him go back to private life.  Any Ideas?  I suppose he could take the Major’s job.

      1. couldn’t make this a link.

        http://www.gjsentine

        Romanoff said he plans to introduce a measure allowing voters in 2008 to temporarily suspend the state constitution’s “single subject rule” for ballot measures.

        That time-out, Romanoff said, would allow the Legislature to pass a ballot question along to voters in 2010 to resolve the fiscal conflicts contained inside the Colorado Constitution.

        Here’s the relavent part.

        “Part of the constitution says grow government, another part says shrink it, and a third provision says balance the budget,” Romanoff said, highlighting the conflicts.

        He said the conflicts between 1982’s Gallagher Amendment, 1992’s Taxpayer’s Bill of Rights and 2000’s Amendment 23 were one of the reasons Gov. Bill Ritter and the Legislature were forced to pass a controversial property tax-rate freeze earlier this year.

        Romanoff said his plan would dodge the difficulties of a constitutional convention, which would take at least three even-year election cycles for voters to convene the convention, select delegates and ratify the convention’s results.

        1. could agree on a fix.  D’s won’t want to touch A-23, R’s sacred cow will be TABOR.  Gallagher probably has a shot at a fix…hmmmmm.

  5. “Buried” at sea for many decades.  Horrifying, dolphins dead with mustard gas symptoms. 

    http://scienceblogs….

    I’ve wondered for years if burial at sea wouldn’t be practical and safe if it was done where the tectonic plates are being subsumed into the mantle of the earth.  With our technology, it would be a piece of cake to guide a barge of sorts right over the devil’s doorway and release the load.

    Anyway, that’s my amateur take on it….

    1. …the plates converge at 2-3 cm per year, maybe 4-4.5 in really active areas.  It would take about 3000 years to swallow a 300-foot barge.

      And most of them don’t show constant motion.  They lock, then slip.  That’s why there are earthquakes associated with subduction zones.

      The sea-floor sediments that would mire your barge aren’t necessarily being subducted either.  The plates beneath them are.

      It would be faster and easier to put the stuff in “empty” containers and ship it to China.

      Or give it to FEMA.  They’d ship it all over the country until they couldn’t find it any more.

      1. Why don’t we put all the mustard gas in the USA out on the plains east of Pueblo…Pueblo would be downwind…but there is not a lot going on down there….It would be great for their economy….

          1. I meant that has a joke, PR…..I was too heavy handed….all the  mustard gas in the US of A has been stored at the Pueblo Ordnance Depot for fifty years……..

            Colorado is real lucky…..we did have the Rocky Mountain Arsenal….and Rocky Flats….and the Pueblo Depot……….

    1. It does not serve the interests of our corporate masters for us to hear the news; instead, we are barraged with nauseating coverage of the travails of Anna Nicole, John Mark Karr, Paris Hilton, Robert Blake, Chandra, JonBenet, Natalee, et al., ad nauseum.

      It is not our lack of a functional justice system that causes me to call America a fascist Third World toilet; rather, it is incidents like this.  During the imperial invasion of Iraq, I had to get my news from New Zealand….

      1. During the buildup to the war, my sources were the internet, the BBC, and even the Russians (who turned out to be more wrong than right.)  I never turn my television on anymore.  When I see the news at other places I am astounded at its vapidity.

        I mentioned last week that MSM=The Matrix.  The more I’ve thought about it, the more that I think it is a valid analogy.  Millions of people hooked up to machines that give them an alternate reality. 

        “Coming up at ten:  Paris Hilton is out of jail, and B-52’s bomb Iran.”  Is it any wonder they keep losing viewers?  Some folk are catching on.

    2. …that the watch had been put in GW’s pocket beforehand.  While it makes perfect sense, it’s also suspicious.  First, the administration has no experience with admiring throngs, second, habeus watchus, “Produce the Watch.”

      They would be too embarrassed to admit they let it happen.

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