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December 26, 2007 09:31 PM UTC
38 Comments
Question for the tax and spend Rep White, when is a sin tax a good thing? Perhaps if you want to raise another $100 million you should raise income tax by $50 for each taxpayer. Just a wild guess (Two Million?) as to the number of taxpayers. We would call that a tax for the common good, a sin tax doesn’t pass the smell test. knowwhatimsayin?
His idea would not take from outside the state, but from inside.
Instead, I wonder if I can get White to back this idea. It would take from those passing through DIA as opposed to locals. Of course, a slightly different idea is to create a high speed monorail/maglev between the casino’s and ski areas.
big time gambler. He wins more than he loses but I think he mostly does it for retirement entertainment.
He has been to Cripple Creek twice since gambling went through here, and the last time said he would never go again because it is set up for little old ladies, and not real gamblers.
His basic words, not me.
He lives in New Mexico and could as easily come here, but he goes to Vegas and such, so he can bet bigger pots.
I think it is a good idea. Raise the stakes, raise some more revenue, and maybe lower my taxes at the same time.
I own some property in Cripple Creek and from what I can see, the town is never going to prosper any more than it has so far, unless it does something different.
This could do no more harm than gambling is doing right now.
IMHO
Black Hawk has enough problems with gambling influence as-is.
Booze, gambling…..what next? Brothels?
The pubs are far more hedonistic than the dems.
Funny thing is that Libertarians push for legalizing drugs and prostitution , but I think of all that I know over the age of 30, only 1 that I know does drugs (pot), and I would guess that none do the hookers (though I suspect a few would do so, if legal; in addition, I know 3 who are swingers, but they claim lots of pub swingers).
But I would guess that the pubs who push making these things illegal, are the one to frequent them. But in this case, I am hoping that White will re-think this and perhaps pursue my idea.
This is where philosophy conflicts with making the world a better place.
Philosophically I think gambling should be legal. If people want to gamble, that should be their own decision.
But… It also is a bad thing. It destroys lives and is basically a tax on people who are bad at math. And it hurst not just the gambler, but their family.
I wish we did not have the lottery because I think it is wrong for the state to encourage gambling.
I’m all in favor fo the laws allowing social gambling because it tends to be low stakes and provides the social outlet of gambling fith little to none of the bad consequences.
I definitely would dislike seeing no-limit gambling as that basically opens it up to all the negatives. And I have to admit, that goes against my basic philosophy and so be it.
For a long time I struggled with why I have no problem with granny bingo or Friday night poker but I do with casinos and lotteries.
Ghandi, as so often had the answer in his Seven Deadly Sins: “Wealth without work.” That is exactly why most people gamble, for that wealth w/o working. It rots the soul.
The rise of state lotteries (promulgated mostly by the equipment makers)has warped the character of millions of people in this country.
I’ve gone into casinos here and in Nevada. I’ve spent, oh, $10 in my lifetime on slots. But mostly I watch people. A sorrier bunch of lowlifes – regardless of their wealth – I’ve never seen.
For a Republican to come up with this, the party of family values and hard work philosophy is mind boggling.
To be a successful gambler, like anything else, it takes skill, smarts, and a little bit of luck. I am an avid card player, and maybe a little biased, but to say it is not work is really untrue.
If you study it very closely, read a few books on the subject, develop a strategy and stick with it and don’t drink anything while you are gambling you can make money. I have won a lot more money playing blackjack than I have lost over the years.
I don’t gamble, either, but I don’t care whether others choose to gamble.
So, do you believe that Ghandi’s “wealth without working” proscription also applies to (1) interest earnings; (2) investment earnings; and/or (3) inheritance?
It’s the mindset. It changes the individual and when enough individuals feel the same way, it changes the society.
Gambling is a test of both political liberals and conservatives. It will be interesting to see how this proposal will fare.
In theory, an adult should be free to do with his/her money whatever she or he wishes. Gambling for most folks (like my parents) is entertainment. Yet, this is the one area where social engineers on both the left and right come out of the woodwork with all sorts of weird unsupported claims.
Credit cards and alcohol ruined way more peoples’ lives (and their families) than was ever ruined by gambling. Yet, there’s no clamor for restricting these activities in the way that gambling is regulated and restricted. For example, why aren’t liquor stores owned and operated by the state (as they are in Utah) to control liquor consumption?
The state-owned and state-run lottery generates way more revenues than casinos and offers players odds that are absurd, yet there’s no effort to regulate it, restrict its advertising or place wager limits on it. It’s OK when the state does it, but bad when a private casino company does it.
Casinos in Cripple Creek, Blackhawk and Central City pay gaming taxes to the state, but the casino on the Ute reservation does not pay taxes. It’s OK when Indians do it, but something to which a sin tax applies when private companies do it. I realize there are Indian sovernty issues here, but from a public policy perspective it’s absurb to tax or not tax something based on the ethnicity of the owners and location of the activity.
Colorado’s gaming restrictions (wager limits and gaming taxes that are 2-3 times higher than the taxes in competing jurisdictions (NV, MS, SD and NJ and Indian reservations)) drive investment away from the state when the revenues from a healthy gaming industry could be used to finance a wide range of useful programs. The state seems to be trying to encourage and discourage the industry at the same time.
Of course, we did try to regulate alcohol to zero consumption. Credit cards have an extremely important function, but like alcohol, some people abuse them. (And like with alcohol, they get plenty of encouragement from the pushers, I mean, corporations in the business.)
The only reason taxes enter into the equation is the “they are doing it, we should, too.” When I was a kid, the only legal gaming state was Nevada. (My grandfather did manage to bet the house on the horses, probably the only legal gambling then.)
Then it was NJ, then came the lotteries, then came Indian and low stakes casinos everywhere.I also see a difference between a tax on cigarettes, a personal choice and habit, and becoming a partner in the gambling industry. Even the industry knows it is somewhat tainted in the eye of the public, hence the “gaming” adjective.
I’m an empiricist, admittedly with my biases. I look around, ask myself if we, as a society and individuals, are better or worse off than 50 years ago, and I conclude worse.
Actually, only Colorado has a $5 wager limit. SD abandoned low wager limits (it’s now $100). The riverboat casinos either no longer have limits or the limit is relatively large (e.g., $500 per visit).
I don’t think many of the residents of Indian reservations, Las Vegas or the Mississippi coast would agree with your conclusions that gaming has made people worse off.
Make it legal in just the towns of Black Hawk, Cripple Creek and Central City. Tax it. And use the taxes to pay for schools.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12…
This is less about gambling and more about the stupid way Colorado runs its budget. Higher Ed is so underfunded we have to look to proposals like this to try to send it some money.
This is going nowhere and we all know it–but look for more proposals like this until the state fixes its budget and finds a way to fund higher ed, transportation and other key needs.
With all the garbage dumped in our constitution, I think it’s the only way out.
If you play every spot on the blackjack table you can actually bet a lot more than $ 5. Good fun too.
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I’ve had a problem within my family with someone gambling with money they didn’t have.
Death threats. The works.
Wanna gamble ?
Take a bus to Deadwood.
…………..
And as far as gambling raising revenue,
my impression is that it raises money for some private clubs like Greater Outdoors Colorado,
which then gives chump change to parks or other non-core activities.
The main beneficiaries of Bingo (former games manager to support my children’s music activities)
are the hall owners and the companies selling supplies.
The main beneficiaries of Cripple Creek are the machine manufacturers.
Is there an upside ?
Explain it to me.
I don’t see one.
.
The state lottery (the state-owned gambling enterprise) money goes to GOCO, parks and the like. Last time I looked at their reports, the state of Colorado keeps about 40 cents on each lottery dollar wagered.
State taxes on amounts wagered in casinos go in fixed percentages to the State Historical Society, and to Teller and Gilpin counties and the towns of Cripple Creek, Blackhawk and Central City. Anything left over goes the state tourism promotion, film promotion and the general fund. The Historical Society uses the money for local grants throughout the state to preserve various historical sites/buildings, etc.
The device fees charged by cities go to the towns that levy them and support their city services (police, fire, etc.).
According to the Department of Revenue, about 8,000 people are employed in Colorado’s casino businesses. No figures are available for the Ute tribe’s operations that I know of (but I didn’t look very hard). Those employee wages generate payroll taxes, support those employees and their families and are obviously spent in the community.
While others have opined that gambling makes us worse off and there’s no upside to gambling, I suspect that the 8,000+ people who have jobs in the industry or related businesses don’t share that view. I also suspect that that view is not shared by the state agencies funded by gaming revenues and taxes.
There are those who have Internet addiction. Should we destroy the Internet?
Likewise, there are those who have problems with Credit Cards. Should all cards be destroyed?
Finally, there are those who spouse run around. Should we destroy everybody else to avoid that happening?
All in all, ppl have issues. Character is about being able to overcome those deficiencies. Families are those that support you in being the best that you can be.
In my opinion, one of the things that separates conservatives from liberals is the attitudes/beliefs about individual liberty and responsibility that you point out and that are highlighted by attitudes about gambling.
Conservatives believe that individuals should be free to pursue their wishes so long as that pursuit does not harm others. And, that individuals bear responsible for their actions (good or bad). Make the right decisions and you should enjoy the profits of that decision; make the wrong decision and you should bear the costs. Government’s role in conservative thinking does NOT include protecting individuals from themselves. A core conservative value is that individual needs — however dire they may be — do not create a right or claim to another individual’s property, labor or assets or a right to limit another’s actions.
In contrast, IMHO, liberals believe that a legitimate role of government is to protect individuals from their own actions and that an individual’s need DOES create a right or claim to others’ assets, property or labor. Liberal interests in income redistribution is philosphically based in the notion that government has a legitimate role in taking from the rich and giving to the poor simply because the poor need the money. The poor have a right to rich peoples’ money because of their need. I also believe that liberals believe that individuals are not ultimately responsible for their actions, but there’s someone else to blame (usually the “blue meanies” in business) (grin) for an individual’s problems.
Gambling is interesting to me because folks who claim to be conservatives often completely abandon those principles and become liberals. They resent anyone who “wins” money from gambling. They decry problem gambling and use it as excuse to limit individual freedom. They blame casinos for problem gamblers behaviors and regulate, limit or prohibit gambling.
Compare credit cards (or liquor) and casinos. Overspending on credit cards causes loads of family disruption, just as does problem gambling. Yet, with credit cards, the “blame” is placed on the compulsive spender who cannot control his spending. With gambling, the “blame” is placed on the casino and not the problem gambler. Problem gambling is viewed as an addiction whereas problem spending is not.
Now Texas has $50 lottery tickets, you don’t have to buy 50 of them to waste your money. No surprise, it is the poorest spending the most on lottery tickets:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12…
When I would ride my bike on those nice greenbelts I would often say to myself, “Thank you, you (literally) poor and (literally) stupid lottery players.” Most of them will never use any of the “Great Outdoors” projects. They pay, I ride.
Oh, the guilt…..