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March 12, 2009 06:04 PM UTC

Take Aim At Foot! Fire!

  • 23 Comments
  • by: Colorado Pols

We interrupt our normal coverage of Colorado politics to bring you an example of absolutely mind-blowing political stupidity too instructive to not point out. As Politico reports:

Nancy Pelosi said this week that she’s keeping the door open for a second stimulus bill.

She may be the only one…reaction on Capitol Hill has been almost uniformly negative – and much of the blowback is coming from Democrats.

“If there’s appetite, there’s not in my office,” said Sen. Tom Carper (D-Del.). “Enough for now. No mas. No mas.”

“It is too soon,” said House Financial Services Committee Chairman Barney Frank (D-Mass.). “No sensible person is trying to guess what will be appropriate policy six months from now.”

“It sounds to me that would be a monumental lift,” said Sen. Ron Wyden (D-Ore.). “Somebody’s going to have to convince me how they’re going to pay for it.”

Just three weeks after President Barack Obama signed a $787 billion stimulus package – and on the same day that he signed a $410 billion omnibus bill loaded with earmarks – the idea of spending more money to juice the economy was one that few members were willing to embrace…

Aides to House Appropriations Committee Chairman Dave Obey (D-Wis.) also denied a CNN report that he has asked his staff to start drafting a second stimulus bill.

But the political damage was already done. Republicans seized on press reports about Pelosi and Obey, arguing that talk of a second stimulus was an implicit admission that the first stimulus won’t work.

Pop quiz: you just got done passing the biggest economic stimulus package in America’s history, an epic battle of messaging against an implacable obstructionist Republican Party, a bill that is going to define at least the first few years of the Barack Obama presidency. In that situation the best thing to do is:

A. Give the public and all the areas of the economy time to absorb what just happened, and encourage patience as the results begin to come in

B. Vigorously defend the bill against its critics, reminding them and public that it will take time and not be perfect and of the pressing need for its passage, or

C. Whack the whole effort at the knees by eagerly popping off about the need for a second stimulus, implicitly undermining the first one before it even has a chance to work–then embarrassingly backpedal when nobody agrees with you

If you answered “C,” you’re either Nancy Pelosi and David Obey or you are a goddamn idiot (true, those do not appear to be mutually exclusive), and either way you have no political sense about you whatsoever. We’re stunned. What an unbelievable gift to the GOP message machine.

The fact is, most economists agree that the current bill is going to have a significant positive effect on the economy, and that its passage was necessary. The need for any future additional stimulus may exist in the hypothetical but you can’t possibly expect to sell it to the American people until the effect of the first one can be assessed. The Democrats quoted above–we haven’t heard yet but fully expect our moderate Colorado delegation will agree this is crazy–are sensitive to their electorate in a way that Pelosi…maybe just isn’t.

Anyway, it appears the Josh Penry scale of tone-deaf has a new benchmark–not up there with “I hope babies get AIDS,” but definitely on the scale.

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23 thoughts on “Take Aim At Foot! Fire!”

  1. Come on, it is your bill, it was passed.  Nancy Pelosi made it quite obvious that she didn’t need the Republican Party’s input on the bill, so why blame them?

    1. I have no problem with the Republicans voting against bills en masse. What is different is the Republicans abusing the nature of the filibuster to prevent a majority from passing bills. If not for our messed up anti-majoritarian system, voting against the party in power 100% would be the truly responsible action much of the time because clear differences between the parties is good for the voters, gives them clear choices (they’d choose Democrats until the Republicans give them a choice that doesn’t involve an I’m With Stupid t-shirt).

  2. now that her party is in the WH and without a big enough majority, once things get to the Senate, to always be able to just bull things through there, a little less bull in the china shop might be helpful at times.

  3. though characteristically stupid from Politico. The hyperventilating italics and boldface and wild overstating of the significance of this story nobody else even noticed suggests Matt Drudge more than anything else.

    BREAKING! REPUBLICANS CRITICIZE DEMOCRATS! MUST CREDIT COLORADO POLS!

    As for this:

    Republicans seized on press reports about Pelosi and Obey, arguing that talk of a second stimulus was an implicit admission that the first stimulus won’t work.

    Right, why are we still spending money on anything? We spent money on most of the same stuff last year!

    1. nobody wanted to start talking about the need for another stimulus bill this soon.  That’s all. It’s not like it’s wildly popular even though it passed.

      1. It’s not wildly popular, but what bitter medicine is?  Polls have shown a plurality or majority of support and given the downcast circumstances, I think that’s about as good as we can expect

        Government isn’t always fun and games, swinging dicks, bombing countries, deposing their leaders, and handing money to gleeful rich people.

        1. we’re not talking about any of that.  The question is was it a great idea for Nancy Pelosi to bring up the likelihood of a need for a second stab at it quite so soon?  

          The White House certainly doesn’t seem to think so nor does most of the rest of the Dem party.  I’d say Pols is on target here.  

          Not many appreciate Pelosi’s apparent rush to replace any positive coverage with coverage of her big mouth.  This is not a debate on substance.  And guess what? Success for this administration in reaching its goals means successful politics in the service of that substance.

          Pelosi seems to be having a taste of a hard time transitioning from opposition to the guys in the White House to  having her own party back in the White House.  

          Bush wasn’t the leader of her party which made her the undisputed leader of the House in every way.  It’s not quite the same now. Obama IS her president and the leader of the Democratic Party as well as of the nation. Not that she has to just lay down and take instructions like the rubber stamp Rs did under Bush but it IS an adjustment.

          1. Nobody ever follows my links.


            Published: February 17, 2009

            DENVER – President Obama has not ruled out a second stimulus package, his press secretary, Robert Gibbs, said on Tuesday, just before Mr. Obama signed his $787 billion recovery package into law with a statement that it would “set our economy on a firmer foundation.”

            …

            Mr. Gibbs, speaking to reporters aboard Air Force One on the way to Denver, said, “I think the president is going to do what’s necessary to grow this economy.” While “there are no particular plans at this point for a second stimulus package,” he added, “I wouldn’t foreclose it.”

            Once again, why the particular harping on Pelosi, who said nothing that was in any way stronger than this statement from a month ago, of which nobody took notice?

            I think people are manufacturing nonsense because they have something particular against Pelosi. But I don’t know what it is.

            1. You are obviously determined not to get this.  

              One more time, nobody is saying that the possibility of further action was ever ruled out.

              One more time, no one is arguing with you, or with Pelosi for that matter, on substance. Does the term news cycle mean anything to you?

              Trust me, the White House wasn’t pleased, your link content not withstanding. But never mind. End of waste of time discussion as far as I’m concerned.  

              Beginning to regret voting for you as polster of the months!

              1. I think that voters have shown in recent election cycles that you can talk like a grown-up and level with them. If R’s want to blow a gasket over this, let them. I don’t think it’s a gaffe to speak honestly. YMMV.

              2. According to the CW, Obama lost news cycle after news cycle during the campaign last year…yet he won handily. News cycles really don’t count for a lot. What counts is making sure the economy gets back on track, because that is how voters will evaluate the parties in November 2010.

                Given how bad winning news cycles seems to be for the Republicans, I’m entirely content to let them keep winning them.

              3. Muahahahaha! I’m totally kicking RedGreen’s ass because of you!

                Seriously, if this is our first disagreement, it hardly makes sense to get angry over it. I used to get angry over that sort of thing, but I’m much happier now that I don’t take it personally.

                Pelosi met with Mark Zandi, Zandi expressed his beliefs in a press conference, Pelosi was asked if she agreed with them, she said “Sorta,” and now it’s a big deal. I would hardly say she blew it strategically.

                Republicans are constantly trying to tear her down. They’ll latch onto anything, whether it’s stupid or not, and sites like Drudge and Politico and The Note and whatever other dozens of tedious conventional wisdom blogs the Dead Governors found this on will play it up. Because to them, the controversy is fun, and the substance is boring. Hence the big font headline in my first post on this.

                You know what the game is. I don’t think you should be blaming the victim here, who I think is Pelosi. You’re free to disagree, but I’m not arguing my position just to piss you off.

                Thanks for the vote in any case.

                1. being sorry I voted for you. So was it you me and one other person?  Haven’t checked the results recently.  Still think you and several others are the ones who don’t get it.  

                  Pelosi’s comment was NOT appreciated by the White House.  That much is clear. For one thing, why backpedal otherwise? It wasn’t the shift in subject they wanted at that point. And Obama HAS won a lot of news cycles too.  Believe me,  everyone prefers winning them to losing them.  

                  The reason I feel this argument is useless is because we are clearly talking past each other, not to each other.  Most of the comments disagreeing with my point don’t actually have anything to do with my point. Exasperated is more like it, not angry. But as its quickly receding into the yesterday’s news category (I never said it was a major fiasco.  My initial comment was that it was a taste clumsy) its really not worth further discussion.  Agree to disagree on this?

    2. Yeah, those dozens of stories out this morning were all written by Matt Drudge. Nothing to see here, you betcha.

      Frankly, this is the kind of absurd non-comment we expect from the other side of the aisle (and usually get). Nice to see it’s the same either way.

      1. What’s absurd about the comment? (Aside from the font, I didn’t think I was allowed to do that.)

        You’re overstating the case. Someone suggested there might be more stimulus needed eventually. Pelosi agreed it was possible.

        Hell, even Barack Obama agreed that a second stimulus might be necessary, depending on how well the first package works. Nobody freaked out about it then, despite the fact that he said it the day the first bill was signed, a month ago.

        It’s a whole lot of nothing, frankly.

        If you really want me to sound like “the other side,” I’ll accuse you of making a big deal about this only because Pelosi’s a woman.

        1. “Depending on how well the first package works.”

          As Barney Frank says, we have no way of knowing that at this time, and won’t for some months. Rep. Obey specifically told CNN he had “started work” on a bill, then denied it. Today, Pelosi is backing away from this as fast as she can. It was a huge gaffe, totally counterproductive not just to Obama’s message on the stimulus but to, for example, Udall’s and Bennet’s.

          And last time we checked, Dave Obey is not a woman.

          1. More seriously, Republicans are attacking Pelosi and Obey since Congress is almost always less popular than the President, and they think it’ll be easier to knock them down a peg than Obama. But it’s no different substantively than what Obama said a month ago.

            If you’re quoting my phrase as indicating Pelosi and Obama said something different, despite the fact that I clearly don’t believe that, then I don’t think your case is very strong.

            As for Obey, here’s the only quote from him I found:

            Talking with reporters yesterday, he said the first stimulus would take a while to have an impact. “But,” he added, “Prudence would dictate that you would anticipate that you might need other things so it’s a simple routine to begin to prepare possible options if you have a next requirement. Now most of the economists I talked to said it’s spectacularly unreasonable to expect to see this stimulus package any time soon. It takes a number of months to get out in the field and to get moving.”

            Gee, sounds like he’s saying the same thing as everyone else: maybe eventually, but obviously not right now.

  4. “No sensible person is trying to guess what will be appropriate policy ….” Apparently Barney doesn’t think Pelosi is sensible?

    Not all Democrats want to give their mandate back after two years, apparently.

    The last stimulus (ARRA) could could have been twice the size it was, and that would have fit the economic data. The problem is it was so poorly targeted.  It is difficult to see how it will create even a million permanent jobs. The debt levels will turn it into a net deduction to our national wealth. ARRA was a really, really poor application of Keynesian economics.  

      1. it was so poorly targeted

        Why?

        The debt levels will turn it into a net deduction to our national wealth.

        What does this mean? Does it have any meaning after the Dow drops over 50% in a year and a half? Got any refs that might explain what you mean?


        ARRA was a really, really poor application of Keynesian economics.

        Why? Govt spending to replace private-sector spending is all it does? Or are you referring to the 40% of ARRA that was tax cuts? Got a ref?

        Not enough spending soon enough.

        If you spend too quickly you have fraud and waste. You want that?

  5. It’s not that the first stimulus bill won’t work, but that it may not have been enough. Pelosi isn’t exhibiting the shrewdest political tactics here, but if economists agree, in light of new data, that $787 billion wasn’t enough, then Obama and Congressional leaders need to find a way to do more–and that probably means a second stimulus bill.

    Indeed, she made these comments after talking to economists who believe the recession is worse than they thought it was even a couple months ago.

    Republicans haven’t really earned themselves a spot at the adults table with regard to the economy and Pelosi knows that. She also knows that they’re going continue to spout the same insane ideas because the party is run by spineless hacks who brag about taking policy guidance from Ayn Rand.

    Also, don’t read too much into Frank’s comments as they’re probably coordinated with Pelosi’s. Other articles say House members agree with the idea that a second stimulus could be necessary.

  6. that President Bush promised when he signed off on all those tax cuts for corporations?  Wasn’t business free from the constraints of taxes going to produce a modern day utopia of prosperity.

    The bellyaching about Pelosi is merely partisan hollering to distract the country from the true failure that has been tried for many many years.  Tax cuts to the largest corporations like Exxon and to the wealthiest individuals in our society didn’t pan out like the government haters promised.  Unregulated and untaxed capitalism was a total failure because it is impossible to eradicate human greed.  The fact that government had to spend money to prop up the country is the clearest signal possible that the economic theories of the Republican Party for the past thirty years are a bunch of hooey.

    The stimulus bill might also be a bust but at least it is paying for school teachers and policeman instead of Exxon and Blackwater.

    Every politician makes public mistakes.  Pelosi just happens to make more than most.

  7. This sounds like a very Republican concept…play up what a grave political error it is to actually try to make the country better. I’m entirely open to the logic that the public is weary of another stimulus, since the media did such a poor job covering the economics of the matter and the fact that the first stimulus package was likely too small. The public is still however generally supportive of the stimulus, it is only unpopular in the deluded minds of the Washington CW and right-wing.

    But Pelosi is actually attempting to do what is right by the nation here in laying the groundwork for a second stimulus if necessary. Pelosi has been an exceptionally competent and effective Speaker of the House, just as Obama has generally done a good job as President. Now if only Harry Reid would carry his weight in the Senate.

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