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June 29, 2018 06:56 AM UTC

Friday Open Thread

  • 64 Comments
  • by: Colorado Pols

“I think people should be angry at things that are worthy of anger.”

–Chris Hayes

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64 thoughts on “Friday Open Thread”

  1. A massive Trumpstink front has settled in Washington, centered around the Supreme Court.  The poisonous cloud could last for decades.

    Women, LGBT, union members, and all others seeking justice are particularly vulnerable to this latest Trumpstink attack.

     

  2. Democrats don't need to cave, Zappy.   We'll be betrayed again by so-called moderates like Susan Collins, who will lock in a Fa cist majority on the court.

  3. Since Republicans have the majority, it is likely we'll lose the SCOTUS seat. However, if we are going to lose, we need to lose smart. 

    That means use the loss to win the public relations battle and pay attention to how this benefits our electoral opportunities. 

    Josh Marshall makes the "Lose Smart" point that delaying the SCOTUS vote until after the election energizes the Republican base, and the present election is one where Republicans are lacking in energizing issues.

    That doesn't mean not fighting, but there is an argument for losing earlier rather than later:

    You don’t win fights by not fighting. That applies to battles and wars. Democrats are asking voters, a significant number of whom may not ideologically be Democrats, to vote for them as a check on Donald Trump. I don’t think you can convincingly make that argument when you’re not doing everything to provide a check while you’re making the argument. To put it more specifically, you cannot go into an election in which enthusiasm and motivation is everything and in which numerous Democratic constituencies have key issues on the line and start the process by demoralizing them. That will not work. So I think you have to fight and fight in a way that signals clearly that you don’t regard this as a normal political situation. You have to take the risk of that paradoxically backfiring situation.

    The benefit Democrats have is that I see zero chance that Republicans will take the risk of putting this vote past the November election. Everything is in their grasp. They will crawl over broken glass to grab it. A question I have is whether they might try to hold a vote in say mid-October, safely putting the person on the Court but still trying to frame the election around it. Who knows? Simply put, we’re not in normal politics. I think you have to fight and fight hard and fight not like it’s normal politics but like we’re in the midst of a political and constitutional crisis. Because we are.

     

    1. You are talking reason to people who are not rational, Park Hill.

      Maybe we let nature take its course on this nominee, win the House this year, the Senate and presidency in 2020, and then change the number of justices to 11, 12,  or 13, allowing President Kamela Harris to name all three. 

      Elections have consequences.

    2. Are you Muslim, a young woman, or have undocumented immigrants in your family? If not, you have zero right to say, "Just do the politically strategic thing" and allow a fundamentalist SCOTUS judge to be appointed now, hoping to organize around it at some convenient date later. For all we know, Trump will declare martial law and cancel elections, or do Putin-style fake elections. We have to act now with the cards we hold. 

      If you are Muslim, a young woman, or have undocumented immigrants in your family, then your life is on the line. You can be deported, not allowed back in if you leave the country, denied the right to choose whether or not to bear a child, or have your children or freedom ripped away from you.

      Yes, I teach young women, Muslims, refugees, and kids of mixed-status families. I don't want to see them terrorized, shamed, made to suffer more. 

      For much of this country, SCOTUS is a life-or-death matter. 

      2. For all we know, Trump will declare martial law and cancel elections…..

        MJ, time for you to get your tin foil hat adjusted?

        I'm not a Muslim, I'm not a young woman, and I do not have any undocumented immigrants in my family. I am a gay man who has a boyfriend who is a Mexican national.

        I also have a functioning brain and like to think strategically rather than make a fetish of process and do things that make me feel better and/or superior (like wasting my vote on Jill Stein like the Useful Idiots did in MI, PA and WI thereby placing us in this position).

        Shouldn't you be in Montrose with Dusty Puppy watching the vote count and holding your breath for Joe Salazar to win?

        2. As a gay man, you could lose your right to marry, and continue to lose ground on being treated equally in business and employment. This applies to me, as well, as a bi woman. 

          If you think the "Trump declares martial law and suspends elections" possibility is Alex Jones territory, I bet you never thought that he would take 2300 kids away from their parents, "disappear" them all over the country, allow forcible drugging of kids, and deny that any of the above is happening.

          I'd bet that you never thought that we'd see again a time when people from certain countries, or believing in a certain religion were declared to be a threat to national security, and their right to travel restricted. 

          You probably never thought that we'd have a President advocating for his supporters to beat up journalists and to lock up protesters. 

          Yet all of these things are happening, right now. 

          We keep thinking we've hit bottom with Trump. But he doesn't care about our silly rules or norms. If he can get away with declaring martial law and ruling himself President for life, he absolutely would. 

           

      3. Yes. It is a life-or-death matter. The underlying issue is that we don't have a majority.

        So, don't be stupid about it. (Goes for Zappy, below).

        If we are going to lose (note, I said IF), then lose in a way that sets us up for success in the next phase.

        1. We are going to hold 46 seats come January instead of 49 as the purists demand that Heidi Heitkamp, Joe Donnelly and Claire McCaskill commit suicide in a futile but symbolic attempt to block trump 's choice.

          Oh, and assuming Collins and Murk vote no and the nominee loses, McConnell declares a.15 minute recess during which Trump makes a recess appointment.

          You 've achieved much, MJ and Zappy.

          PS when the new Senate convenes with 54 Republicans instead of 51, trump resubmit his nominee.

          1. Wow. And you accuse me of paranoia and imagining fanciful scenarios. That's fabulous, though, that Z and I have so much power to make or break the elections of Heitkamp, Donnelly, and McCaskill. We really must be supervillains, as V suggests.

            All I'm really saying is that we (meaning the Senate, Congress as a whole, and American voters as a whole) should fight tooth and nail to prevent Trump from seating his pick on SCOTUS. Because for many of us, it is a life and death matter. For democracy in the US, as well. 

            In negotiating, you don't start with your weakest stance. You don't go, "Show us somebody moderate, and we'll give him/ her a hearing, and maybe we'll confirm him/her."

            You go, "You blocked Garland for a year, citing the 2016 election to allow voters to weigh in. We think that's valid, and are citing the 2018 election to allow the newly elected Senate to weigh in."

            1. I never suggested you were a supervillain.  But accusing Trump of Mass murder, of planning to cancel elections and rule by decree, isn’t super smart either.

              1. My bait worked.  wink

                I can't see what you've been writing for the past few days, which has been a big relief and made my Pols experience much more pleasant. However, based on the past, I think that we can take it as a given that it has included:

                drunk, raging incoherent lying no credibility alex jones conspiracy mongering cyberbully stupid dumb as a post  low-self-esteem-female (why I supposedly didn't vote for Cary Kennedy – note: this only applies to women who didn't vote for Kennedy) – frothing hanging naked from the chandelier… (defend) stupid shit I never posted (attack) my supposed thoughts while posting the stupid shit I didn't post

                ..there's probably more, since I've been hiding your posts the last few days thanks to Psuedo's handy hack.  But that's probably the gist of it.  Did I leave anything important out? 

                I'm not holding my breath waiting for an apology. However, you will have an opportunity tomorrow, to apologize, to explain yourself, or  to double down and be even more vicious and hateful, over a beer at the Platte Valley watering spot. I will listen and give you the civil respect that you deny to me. 

                1. Your ego is far too overwhelming to ignore my posts.

                  Example:  you snarled at RandR for accusing you of Alex Jones conspiracy theories. he never did.  I did — and you took the bait in your very next post.

                  You are rather veracity challenged, your egoship.  But I look forward to your explanations of what happened to the death camps you accused the government of running.

                  But if it's an apology you want because I, like RandR and ma ny others stand up to your drunken cyber bullying, you better pack a change of clothes.   

                  It's going to be a long wait.

                  1. In five years, I've never seen you apologize or admit a mistake – why would you start now?

                    It's fine, though… your opinion of me has zero effect on my own sense of self. That is what being an Uppity Woman is all about, FYI. All those female candidates you give money to? They've all had to deal with guys just like you, who tell them that their  confidence is arrogance and assertiveness is inappropriate anger.

                    What you admire at a distance is undoubtedly uncomfortable to deal with close up, even on a virtual blog.

                    I'll meet you folks  tomorrow,  hang out with Michael and Cook, apologize to Roger (to whom I do owe an apology), give you a chance to explain your antipathy, and if you can't do that, c'est la vie. Life goes on and Psuedy's hack works well on Chrome. I'm not leaving – I've got diaries to write and things to say. 

                     

              2. If you don't see that is exactly what "Drumphenfurher is after, then you are not connected to reality. Why the hell do think he is going to Russia NOW? He is about to get a huge load of trouble dumped on him by Robert Mueller, and he is going there for a tutorial from Vladdy. He needs to figure out how to take over the government completely…who better to teach him?

                You and R&R are in serious need of a reality check. Maybe you should, for the first time, admit you are wrong about something. Because you are.

                1. Duke, get a grip.  Then read the U.S. Constitution.

                  You're getting almost as paranoid as mj, probably without the enjoyment she gets while plundering the cooking sherry.

                  1. V.

                    1. Just because mama believes something doesn't make it wrong.

                    2. I have read the Constitution. So have the people who are working to dismantle and trample it. You think there is no reason to worry that T***ps' intention is the same as the rest of the malcontents who seek to rewrite the Constitution? They all have an interest in destroying the New Deal…or changing the laws on abortion and gay rights…or altering the 2nd amendment and recreating the old west…or turning this nation into a theocracy…or making that psycho president for life.

                    3. I love you, V. but you gotta give this a second look. This is Bannons' agenda. This is Millers' agenda. This is Putins' agenda. T***p will give them anything they want in order to satisfy his profoundly needy ego.

                    1. Eventually, enough white males that V respects will be saying the same thing, and he'll be fine with it.

                    2. Yeah, all those white males like Cary Kennedy and Hillary Clinton that you despise and whom I supported.

                      Feminists have a name for people like you: 

                      Queen Bee Syndrome.

                      Google it.

  4. So, if the Mueller investigation proves that the Trump campaign, and perhaps Trump himself, colluded with the Russians to alter the election, doesn't that mean the Trump election is illegitimate?  And, if illegitimate, then shouldn't all of Trump's actions taken while serving as an illegitimate president be invalidated?

    Enquiring minds want to know.

    1. Precedent, as shown by Nixon. Dimensions of the Watergate was well known by the time of Nixon's second inauguration in 1973, aides were convicted, other aides resigned or were fired, a Senate special committee empaneled for hearings, and in May, there was a Special Prosecutor appointed. "June 3, 1973: John Dean has told Watergate investigators that he discussed the Watergate cover-up with President Nixon at least 35 times." Pretty clearly, he was implicated more directly than *resident Trump is at this point.

      After that date, Nixon nominated 6 Circuit court judges (including some who are still serving on "senior status" and William Webster–judge, then Director of FBI and Director of CIA). Nixon nominated 25 additional District judges, with the last one coming on July 9, 1974. Nixon resigned less than a month later, on August 8, 1974. [The very last one, James Clinkscales Hill, went on to be a Circuit Court judge, then Senior Judge of a Circuit, retiring but maintaining senior status in 2017.]  ALL of those 31 nominees were confirmed.

    2. Good question, but you won't like the answer.

      Once a majority of the electoral college voted for Trump, he was the legitimate president.  

      Only Congress, via the impeachment power, can remove him.

      Without such finality our government would be anarchy. 

      Trump is the worst president in U.S. History.

      But his actions, to the extent that they express his enumerated powers under the Constitution, are presumptively valid.

  5. WOTD from Vox: "It's Time to Fight Dirty".

    Sean Illing

    I definitely want to get into some of these structural barriers, but let’s be clear about this point you’re making. A lot of people still think there’s some meaningful connection between policy outcomes and voter decisions, but there’s a good bit of political science research to suggest that’s just a fantasy. 

    David Faris

    Right. People just don’t seem to make the connection between policies and the party in power. 

    So, for example, the Democrats passed Obamacare and gave millions of people heath care, and yet tons of people who benefited from it have no idea what it is or how they benefited. And it’s like that with a lot of policies — voters simply don’t connect the dots, and so they reward or punish the wrong party.

    I think the idea that we’re going to deliver these benefits to people and they’re going to be like, “Thank you Jesus, thank you for everything that you’ve done, let me return you with a larger majority next time,” is just nonsense. It’s the wrong way to think about politics. 

    That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t do things for people, but we’ve got to be serious about how elections are won. And they’re not being won on the basis of policy proposals or policy wins.

                2. Some fun facts while we’re on the subject, all of which buoy V’s argument for turning the Electoral College into a petting zoo:

                  The 25 least populous states contain less than one-sixth of the total population. California, the most populous state, contains more people than the 21 least populous states combined, and Wyoming is the least populous state, with a population less than the 31 most populous U.S. cities.

  6. We made history last night on the floor of the US Senate: passage of their Farm Bill with the provision to deschedule hemp and reclassify it as an agricultural crop.

    A special shout-out to Senator Bennet for his quiet, behind-the-scenes work in late 2013, convincing Senator McConnel to retain Section 7606 in the final report. With his intervention and Congressman Polis’ leadership on creating 7606, the industry is poised to create billions in new opportunities for American agriculture.  

    I have a deep gratitude to both Polis and Bennet for supporting the many advocates that brought us to this day. 

    2. Senator Bennet for his quiet, behind-the-scenes work

      Don't you know? In order to be effective, Bennet is supposed to set his hair on fire and jump up and down according to Zappy. 

      1. I, for one, enjoy his quiet, steady demeanor (Bennet, not Zappy, although I do appreciate Zappy's commitment to progressive causes). The Senator was elected in a time when CO was far redder than it is today, and against an opponent who couldn't beat him in a wave year. MB is a good man and I can't imagine the shitstorm we'd be subjected to today with a Senator Buck, buoyed daily by Twitler. 

  7. Is anyone surprised?

    Ryan Knight 🌊@ProudResister

    — Deutsche Bank has loaned Donald Trump over $2.5 billion since 1998

    — Deutsche bank was fined $630 million for a $10 billion Russian-Money Laundering scheme in 2017

    — Retiring Justice Anthony Kennedy’s son was TRUMP’S BANKER at Deutsche Bank

    THAT’S WAY TOO MANY “COINCIDENCES”

  8. Tomorrow is Saturday June 30. Some time ago Pols had suggested a meet-up. 2:30 PM, Platte River Bar & Grill, 5995 South Sante Fe Drive, Littleton CO. I’ll be interested to hear how President Trump has made your lives so much worse. Don’t disappoint. In support of the President’s tax cut I will buy the first round. Pols can furnish the crumbs.

  10. AG race vote count just ticked over to 100% on the SoS site. 100% in – Weiser won by 5,031 out of  590,960 votes cast in that race statewide. So about a 1.7% margin of Weiser's votes- not small enough for automatic recount. 

    It was a good race, and every vote finally got counted, which was all I wanted. Pols, can we expect an acknowledgement that Salazar performed much better than you ever expected for a guy with no money and little establishment Dem support?  That perhaps, his getting half of the votes in Colorado was not just about people confusing him with other Salazars of note?

    I'll of course work to GOTV to help Weiser in the general, along with every other Dem running for office in Colorado. So it goes. 

     

    1. Thanks for the update …

      I have a friend who had several pictures of Weiser and Salazar standing together at a #BlueWave event for the general election. Sure seemed like they were getting along just fine. Saw other photos from the same event — they were hugging behind a sign LAS FAMILIAS MERECEN ESTAR UNIDAS.

      Don't know if it would be possible, but Joe Salazar would be a heck of a Chief Deputy Attorney General…

      1. I'd like to see Salazar continue his excellent work in the legislature. He's not term-limited yet.  He's a great advocate, wherever he lands.

      2. Salazar wrote a very classy concession post, excerpted here:

        Joseph Salazar

        Yesterday at 2:32 PM ·

        ELECTION UPDATE:

        Just moments ago, I contacted Phil Weiser and congratulated him on his win. He fought a furious battle for the nomination and we must celebrate the success of our opponents. But, Phil also knows that to earn my support, to earn your support, he needs to do more than what he has ever done for marginalized communities. I received a wonderful commitment from him to meet next week. We will discuss how best to move forward to November.

        With that said, I want to thank my campaign staff, my very overworked, very strong, very determined – my warrior campaign staff – for fighting for the people of Colorado; for fighting for this campaign when we were outgunned, out fundraised, out manned every step of the way. We made one helluva impression on Colorado, on the Democratic Party, and I could not be more proud of you.

        My Campaign Manager, Morgan, solidified this team when we needed it the most. They gave me the strength to move forward when I was having a hard enough time just moving my feet. I thank you for lending just a little bit of the power of your spirit, Morgan!

        To all the interns, volunteers, supporters, donors, my endorsers all across the state, I am humbled by you. Never in my life did I imagine I would ever deserve the honor of your enormous support. While you might be disappointed in the result, raise your heads up high for the battle we fought! We let the Establishment know that your voice is mighty! We let the Establishment know that they had better listen to you because you are the activists we need to repair this Party. I see you on the front lines every day and we need to educate the Establishment that on the front lines is where they need to be!

        Thank you Labor! Thank you Sen. Bernie Sanders! Thank you PDA! Thank you Our Revolution! Thank you Working Families Party! Thank you Colorado Black Women for Political Action, Arvadans for Progressive Action, and to all the other endorsing organizations and people, I so appreciate you. I am forever grateful for your love!

        Think about it… this campaign went up against the following: 1) one sitting governor; 2) two former governors; 3) one former US Senator/Obama Cabinet Secretary; 4) around $2 million; and 5) an Establishment that doesn't concede power.

        We won the majority of counties (43 of 65 counties), we overwhelmingly won rural Colorado, and we came to within less than 1 percent. We did all this having raised around $150,000. That's CHINGON, y'all! That's organizing! That's ALL YOU!

        Some of you are wondering what to do now. I am asking you to get involved in Democratic campaigns in the General Election. We cannot lose the Governor’s seat, we need to take back the Attorney General’s seat, we need a Dem Secretary of State and Treasurer. We need to flip the Senate and preserve the majority of the House. The Republicans are coming and we are the first and last line of defense! We are the ones who will stop the insanity! While moderates sacrifice our communities, such as voting for Jeff Sessions or Neil Gorsuch, we are there to block the tide of their hatred and to clean up the messes moderates leave behind. While moderates vote in favor of corporate interests, we are there to fight for Labor and civil rights!

        While moderates sit on their hands not wanting to feel uncomfortable, we throw down at protests, marches, and rallies for our most vulnerable communities! We know that in this era of America, no one has a right to feel comfortable while others are suffering; while children sit in cages.

        So, join the various campaigns for the General Election. Work for these candidates and remind them how your vote matters!

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