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December 17, 2009 12:48 AM UTC

Good or Bad, Does Health Care HAVE to Pass?

  • 80 Comments
  • by: Colorado Pols

As health reform legislation gets more watered down than a drink at Ruby Tuesday’s (sorry, Ruby, just an example), many liberals have been left wondering if it makes more sense to just kill the bill altogether than to pass something so weak.

But as “The Fix” explains today, President Obama and his fellow Democrats may not have a choice:

While the deal-making has left many liberals cold about the final product, it has also virtually guaranteed that the President will be able to hold a Rose Garden signing ceremony sometime next year, declaring victory in the overhaul of one of the stickiest wickets of social policy in the country.

The broad strategy adopted by the White House toward health care is based on a single fundamental belief: coming out of this extended fight with nothing to show for it amounts to a political disaster not just for the President but for congressional Democrats as well.

“It’s a huge problem if nothing gets passed,” said one senior Democratic strategist. “Huge.”

The problem would be two-fold, according to the source.

First, it would makes a pivot to a focus on jobs and the economy — the two front-of-mind issues for most Americans — virtually impossible for Obama as he would be faced with months of “what if” and “what now” questions about the future of his number one legislative priority. (Look back to the aftermath of former President Bill Clinton’s failure to reform health care for evidence of how much damage the collapse of a major legislative initiative can have on a president’s agenda going forward.)

Second, the failure of a health care bill would substantially erode two basic pillars on which Obama was elected — “competence” and “change”, according to the source…

…Obama has made the case publicly and privately to Democratic Members of Congress that whether they like it or not, their fates are intimately intertwined with his. His successes are their successes and vice versa.

He — and his senior staff — are certain to repeat that argument ad nauseam in the coming days to convince liberals in the Congress that any talk of killing the bill on principle amounts to political suicide. (Are you listening Governor Dean?)

It’s nearly certain that those Members will ultimately go along with Obama. The bigger question as it relates to the 2010 midterm elections is whether the compromises made by the Obama Administration to pass health care demoralize the Democratic base further — keeping them at home in a year where Republican base voters are expected to turn out in droves.

It’s hard to disagree with “The Fix” here. If health care reform is killed now, there’s little chance that it will be brought up again anytime in the next 5-10 years, and the damage to Democrats in the meantime could be massive. The debate has gone on for so long at this point that it would be a complete debacle if nothing came out of the discussions. But still…

Should HC Reform Be Killed, Or Is That Political Suicide?

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80 thoughts on “Good or Bad, Does Health Care HAVE to Pass?”

  1. and she is utterly pissed off and yes, demoralized, at what the HCR bill has turned into. She’s married to a doctor and in her opinion, this bill is a big pile of worthless shit. And she is also a pragmatist. And the first thing she said was that they have to sign the bill. They have backed themselves into a corner and if the Dems bail on this after a year of struggle, they will lose more seats than they can begin to count next year. Then again, if they make this bill law, they may just piss off the base to the point that nobody turns out next year and they lose more seats than they can begin to count.

    I think they are screwed either way and only have themselves to blame. Then again, I can add and 60 is the magic number, isn’t it?  

    1. the leadership couldn’t have strong-armed  Lieberman et al to get 60 to pledge to refrain from joining a Republican filibuster.  The Rs did it all the time.  Obama didn’t even try.  I believe it’s just as Greenwald says in his salon piece, http://www.salon.com/news/opin…

      There is no lifetime cap ban.  There is nothing to keep insurance companies from raising the rates astronomically to cover those with pre-existing conditions.  There is nothing to prevent them from finding an uncrossed to deny you when you get sick.  

      Basically we are all required to buy private insurance since no other option will be available, supplying private insurers with millions of new costumers and the benefit of tax payer provided subsidies to pay whatever people can’t afford and nothing to prevent them from continuing to conduct business as usual.

      It does nothing at all for the self employed.  It does nothing at all to lower consumer costs.

      Obama didn’t lift a finger to fight for medicare expansion, probably because that really would have opened the door to future universal healthcare and he clearly wasn’t willing to back anything so unacceptable to the private insurance industry.  Looks like he and the leadership didn’t strong arm Lieberman because they’re pretty much on the same side. They just get to say “Don’t complain to us.  We did our best.  It’s mean Joe’s  fault.  We can count to 60” blah blah blah.

      So I really can’t work up much interest in the fate of this bill or sympathize with the Obama administration over any damage they may have caused themselves.  I’m not seeing any concern for the welfare of people like me in this piece of crap.

      1. That’s about where I’m at with this–it’s a piece of crap bill and the Dems backed themselves into a corner with shit leadership like Reid and now they have to own a shit bill. Strictly politically speaking, they are doomed if they don’t pass it. And frankly, they are kind of screwed if they do.

        It isn’t fair to the many Democrats in the House and Senate that worked their asses off for a better bill. They didn’t cave. Their leadership did. Can’t blame Pelosi because she got a pretty decent bill through. This is on Reid, Obama and his administration and particularly Rahm. The only thing I remotely disagree with you about is Lieberman–and if the Dems and Obama had been smart, they would have stripped him of all of his power in his committees the day after Obama took office. Instead, they played nice with him and he did exactly what we all expected–he fucked them again.

        Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

    2. 60 is the magic number and if Obama and Reid knew how to play hardball, they’d have 60+ votes.

      Democrats, and I am a proud one, need to show that we not only know how to win elections, but that we know how to govern when we do win.  Thus far, Obama and Reid have both failed this test miserably.

      Having said that, I’m not sure that the merits of this bill, as it appears now, are worth passing.  I’m troubled by the fact that there is a “mandate” on individuals to purchase insurance with their only option being to purchase from the private sector.

      1. this bill, at least the Senate version, has lost nearly everything that made it worthwhile. I tend to agree with you from a personal aspect that this bill is barely worth the paper it’s going to be signed on.

        But looking at this strictly from a political angle, the Senate has to back it and Obama has to sign it. They don’t have any other option and it’s their own damned fault.  

  2. Maybe we should pass something, just don’t feed me a turd and tell me I’m eating pudding.

    Portability, no post claim underwriting, preexisting conditions and a few ideas are worthy as long as we don’t get mandates (no public program: no mandates), but I still will have to choke this down.

    And lieberman gets shrouded.

    1. Something, anything, passing keeps it in focus.  Fidel’s right, this is actually about people.  People are much better off if this stays at the front.  Definitely a little good here out weighs lots ‘o nothing.

      If that happens, you will of course be told you’re getting pudding for the entire election cycle.  But don’t worry, they’ll be pissing on my foot at the same time.

      1. You can fix something that exists. Does anyone think this’ll be any easier to start over from scratch next time? It doesn’t get us, by any stretch, all the way there, but it’s a darn sight closer than we are now.  

        1. Just can’t work up any enthusiasm for a bill that does so little good for us and so much for the insurance industry.  It may tweak a tiny little thing here and there but it isn’t just inadequate reform.  it isn’t real reform at all.  The insurers are the big winners, a few more people get insured, the rest of us have no options for anything better or cheaper than what we have right now so how is it worth the expense?  I won’t fight it or support it. It’s not worth the effort either way.  

          1. that you will now be REQUIRED BY THE GOVERNMENT to pay for something that does you absolutely no good anyway when you need it the most.

            Now thats the kind of reform the healthcare industry can support !  

  4. The months of debate has already made a mockery of the process. Democrats have painted themselves as people who just can’t get anything done, and the whole Senate looks more like a tedious soap opera that jumped the shark ten years ago.

    Right-wingers are no more likely to support Obama now despite his selling out, and left-wingers are completely demoralized. Nobody has any sense that their letters or protests have had any effect.

    Worst of all, the bill has no enforceable improvements, and the two major components of the bill (a big tax on good health plans, and a mandate to buy private insurance) are going to be extremely unpopular. All this because Senators are apparently convinced that insurance companies will start lowering premiums once they get a bunch of new healthy customers. “Just give us more money and we’ll stop asking for more money!”

    1. No bill passing is suicide for Obama. I agree with you from a policy point of view, but Obama can kiss his re-election goodbye. Maybe it’s a catch-22.

      2. The Purple People Beaters look like they might be REALLY PISSED: (h/t Ed Morrissey)

        The Service Employees International Union (SEIU) backed out of an event with other organizations promoting the Senate healthcare reform bill Wednesday over concerns about changes made to the legislation to accommodate centrist Democrats.

        The SEIU had planned to participate in a Capitol Hill press conference along with the AARP, the liberal advocacy group Families USA, Consumers Union and the American Cancer Society Action Network. As recently as Tuesday morning, the organizations distributed an advisory to the news media that included the SEIU.

  5. What will happen to the dems chances in 2010 if the bill dosen’t pass ?  What if there is no signing ceremony at the Rose Garden ?

    Oh heavens no !

    And this is the big worry, not ordinary people dying for lack of care or being dropped through recission, not ordinary people forced into bankruptcy, not ordinary people not being able to afford insurance – its never about the little people, its about them.  

    2. But the reality of the politics at this point are clarifying. If it is impossible to get a bill with stronger language, do you still try to get what you can or do you tear it all up?  

      4. Obama never supported stronger language. He never lifted a finger to fight for stronger language. Never tied to leverage Joe Lieberman. The only explanation that makes sense is Greenwald’s… this is exactly what Obama wanted. The rest was lip service. He gave big insurance and big pharma the best places at the table from the beginning. He gave the public option nothing but the occasional halfhearted thumbs up while qualifyng even that by saying it wasn’t at all vital. He never lifted a finger for the medicare expansion plan either. Joe’s their convenient excuse for business as usual with their overlords.

    3. You got that one right. They have fucked themselves either way here, in my opinion. I have party activists telling me they have never been so discouraged in their entire lives, that they fought and worked so hard last year and had so much hope and optimism and it is virtually all gone. I know a lot of folks personally, including myself, who were counting on REAL health care reform to save me and this ain’t it. I’m basically screwed.

    4. Politicians getting a photo op while talking about all the good they do the little people.  It never mattered whether or not it was going to be good for the people, only that it would make the pols look good.  

      And people wonder why I dislike massive government control over anything.

      1. The effort in Washington is not about how the little people — us — will be helped. It’s always about which side gets to claim victory and which side will benefit the most at the polls. They aren’t interested in doing the hard work that actually helps the people of this country. Sadly, we keep falling for their BS.

  6. 1. Sign this bill and we see that the Democrats cannot pass a bill that puts the needs of citizens ahead of special interest. Reason to vote for them? I don’t think so.

    2. Refuse to pass this bill and drop the subject…for years, a la Clinton. Loser.

    3. Refuse to pass this bill, turn his rhetorical guns on Republicans (and by implication Blue Dog Democrats) and make it THE ISSUE of 2010 with a specific solution in a specific bill in advance (rather than some vague “health care reform”). I don’t think people who vote are so entirely stupid or oblivious that they could not understand that approach and evaluate the bill at hand.

    Trying to put the current legislation over as some sort of Democratic “victory” or “accomplishment” is positively a joke. Too bad it isn’t in the least bit funny.

    1. I have no idea what is allowed in the conference committee between the House and Senate for latitude in restructuring the bill.  

      If there is any chance they can reconstitute the better components of each and piss on Joe Lieberman in the process, then more power to them. It only takes a simple majority at that point.

      But if the Senate version prevails, the built-in self-destruct mechanism will almost (but not quite) be as bad as passing nothing at all.

      The new poll numbers for Obama reflect a disappointment with his lack of courage to push the aggressive agenda for actual change that everyone expected with his election.

      Playing it safe, as his current tendency proves, is the sure loser strategy.

    2. Option 3 sounds like a win to me.

      In face, what I would like to see is option 4.

      4. Refuse to pass this bill, break it down into pieces we can all swallow.  Tort reform, pricing regulation, increase in Medicare qualifications, etc…

      This problem is complicated, why do we think we have to try and solve it in one fell swoop?

      1. In addition to breaking down the problem, these could be discrete planks on a national Democratic platform for the election. This is a key issue and should be examined in an off-year election when all the attention isn’t grabbed by the presidency.

        Unfortunately I have the strong sense that the Obama team elected early on to pass HEALTH CARE REFORM, a one-and-only bill. Bad strategic decision, as it turned out. Whether they would be capable of rethinking at this late stage I don’t know, but I’m skeptical.

        1. especially if the alternative is to throw your hands up and leave the room with nothing.

          If it’s possible to break it all up, that probably is the better plan.  There’s no reason that this couldn’t be done quickly enough to cover up the massive failure.  The problem is that to do it, you’d have to approach the other side now and have the smaller reforms ready to roll out as soon as the current plan was abandoned.

          I believe that there are smaller things we could do that would help huge amounts of people, utilize more of the private sector, save tax money, and flat out save lives.

          The really unfortunate thing is that the most common sense plan ever probably wouldn’t have passed, or so says me.  Frustrating.  Giant fail on both parties (before anyone complains).

  7. Not being ignorant of the political ramifications, if a bad bill passes, what will happen to the base?  are they going to be as fired up?  Will they stay home?  I am a lot less likely to care what they say about their agenda in the next election because if its business as usual, unless someone starts at a single payer system, any compromise is going to be about as useful as a fart in a bag.

  8. As far as I can tell, and the information is not available to the public (trying to find the link stating the senators sent aides from the room so they could avoid leaks), there are a couple of bills out there to make the insurance/healthcare oligarcy more powerful and richer; to condem women to the coathanger; to make the RC church more in control of American lives; to make lieberwimp more godlike; to prevent Americans from controlling the healthcare companies death panels from refusing treatment to Americans;  and to just give our country over to anybody except we the citizens.

    There is no healthcare bill out there to kill or rescue.  The bluedog republicans have destroyed any hope of healthcare for the U.S. and we are supposed to believe there is something for us!

    The charade of change is over. The prez has not done anything about getting rid of bushes policies and personnel that are running the country. In fact the prez has dirtied himself with his deals with pharma that were to make sure there was not healthcare reform.  It is working. There is no healthcare reform coming – at least reform that helps Americans.

     

  9. Drop the pharma deal, add portability and some kind of tort reform, and the Republicans don’t have anything to say about it.  

    And don’t act like a jackass and tell Congress you want it on your desk by August first because ‘the Republicans need to get out of the way’.  

    He could have made them look stupid, and now he’s hosed.  This bill isn’t going anywhere this year (maybe never), and poll-wise, it has been his “Waterloo” and it’s not going to improve.

    And even though I want him to have as many political failures as possible now, there are good people that could really have been helped by honest reform that are truly fucked now, and it’s not the fault of the Republicans – it’s the ego of the President and the absolute frothing partisanship and ineptitude of Reid and Pelosi overplaying their hands.  

    Howard Dean himself told people that the reason tort reform isn’t even touched on is that the Dems didn’t dare take on the trial lawyers.  People aren’t stupid, and you lost a whole lot of the middle right there.

    When Howard Dean is getting called a skunk by progressives, maybe the party in disarray isn’t on the side of the aisle you think it is.

    1. At no point were Republicans ever ready to support a health care package. The guys who said health care would be Obama’s “Waterloo” were, dare I say, against the idea of health care reform in general. The guys who brought up death panels were too.

      Fuck Republicans. At least Joe Lieberman has the advantage of being useless. Republicans have not had a single thing to offer since the 90s.

      1. Add in even symbolic tort reform, and the Republican base is on board.  This bill was horribly mishandled from the outset.

        Reid was going to try to get cloture this weekend on a bill even Durbin says he hasn’t seen in its entirety?

        Please.

        Can we have a new rule on Pols that there can be no more talks about ‘big tents’ and ‘ideological purity’ now after the treatment Lieberman is receiving?

        1. You mean being catered to because a party is eager to please both its left wing and its right wing? Oh heavens to Murgatroyd, poor Joe!

          Nothing gets Republicans signed on to this or any healthe care bill. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. You know that. Why you’re saying the opposite of the thing you know is a mystery to me.

        2. He’s not a Democrat, and Reid-Emanuel gave him everything he asked for — this is shabby treatment how? This despite his avowed strategy to fuck with the liberals by opposing things he supported wholeheartedly only recently.  

                1. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…

                  And he said he was particularly troubled by the overly enthusiastic reaction to the proposal by some liberals, including Representative Anthony Weiner, Democrat of New York, who champions a fully government-run health care system.

                  As for whether I really believe Lieberman supported the Medicare buy-in three months ago, yes, I watched this video.

                  Yes, I believe in facts.

            2. You mean when he was an enthusiastic supporter of the Medicare buy-in as recently as September?

              Admit it, Leiberman was moving the goal posts every time he got a concession, and the only reason he was doing it was to fuck with the liberals because they beat him in a primary over the Iraq War a few years ago.

              He’s been negotiating in bad faith all month — and my gosh! how the Democrats have treated him! By giving him everything he wanted! Those bastards!

            1. “Hey, I won.” is not reaching out.

              I agree reform is needed, and this was never about reform.  I’m being serious, and BC, I promise I’m not trying to stick it to you on this, but it’s a giant mess, and it’s Obama’s mess.

              1. That that one two-word quote from Obama can outweigh all the other actions and quotes from all the other interested parties since he took office. The right blew that out of proportion, and if you’d like, I can show you how you’re incredibly wrong on this.

                  1. Obstruction and causing Dem failure is their only goal.  There is no shred of evidence that they ever had the slightest desire to reform healthcare. Nothing.  Nada.  You’re smarter than this, LB.

    2. Maybe if they put a clause in the bill to allow insurers to deny coverage based on pre-existing conditions the R’s would’ve come on board, but they might demand a few more concessions first, like allowing caps on total coverage but removing caps on annual premium increases…

      If only Dems had given the Republicans everything they wanted, then they would’ve gone for it.

      We will never know, but fuck all of them to hell for letting the people down.  I don’t care if they have a D or R after their name.  Collectively they are a bunch of fucking losers.

      1. What about not mandating coverage of pre-existing conditions, but allowing those people to pool and heavily subsidizing them in a co-op?

        I would have payed higher taxes for something like that, and it would have helped some of the biggest victims out there.  At least they would have been covered.

        1. too bad they fucked it all up.  We’ll get nothing like that now.

          And stop being sensible like that, you’re helping me to be less angry today.

  11. From there it will go to a conference committee, where the real nut-cutting will commence.

    It’s premature to completely write off the Senate version, whatever it may be, because a different animal will emerge from conference.

    As for the Democratic base staying home, I think the right-wing radio, TV and blog deluge will keep Democrats sufficiently pissed off enough to vote, if only to vote against every Republican in sight.

    To kill the whole effort now would be political suicide for Obama, and he’s smart enough to know what. Let’s hope enough senators are.

    1. that this so-far-just-proposed Senate bill is not the final word.  And Howard Dean didn’t say they should kill the whole Congressional effort, but rather bag the senate cluster-you-know-what and go to reconciliation.

      I’m going to continue to wait for THE bill before I completely write off the effort.  The House bill contains provisions that will start saving lives in 2010.  

      All this ugly sausage making is and has been making me sick and tired and pissed off.  But I’m determined to remember that Social Security didn’t start off perfect, big change doesn’t come easy, and the opera ain’t over till the fat lady sings.

      BTW, The Fix got this wrong:  ” . . .the overhaul of one of the stickiest wickets of social policy in the country.”  Should have said “social and ECONOMIC policy in the country.”  

        1. I was all set to give up and have my spirit crushed. I was gonna quit the Democrats, maybe join the Greens or something, but one way or another, just get out of electoral politics entirely. I was so disenchanted I didn’t know what to do with myself.

          But I think I’ll stick it out just to piss you off. 😉

  13. Personally, since the bill no longer has anything in it that would benefit me, I’m ready to see it killed.

    For Democrats, if they can’t find anything they can declare victory about, then they’re totally fucked.  Last time they were totally fucked? 1994.  The year when they got over being totally fucked? 2006.  So what happens if the Democrats can’t get their shit together to do something worthwhile with health care?  Consider them fucked for 12 years.

    I’m particularly disappointed in President Obama.  He should be kicking ass and taking names like Lyndon Johnson.  Instead, he’s hiding like Dick Cheney.  That almost guarantees him a single term and no more.

    1. Obama, instead, is getting Treated.  Those campaign contributions came home to roost and the bed is already made.

      This HC outcome won’t impact me directly, personally. In one year, four months, and 28 days, I’m on Medicare.  But I cry for my kids, their kids, our nation.  

      The problem with accepting anything just for a Rose Garden signing is that the politicians will not suffer any consequences.  Business (literally) as usual.  We might as well have an R in the WH for all the good these so-called D’s are doing.

      1. Republicans wouldn’t have come up with the idea that you have to buy insurance whether you want to or not under the threat of imprisonment.  That’s all Democrat right there.

        1. ….but I do know that it was a sort of condition to bring the industry on board to any kind of HCR.  

          Switzerland does well, apparently, with mandated coverage AND NO profits allowed by the insurers!  WTH, you ask? Well, the same HC insurers also offer you standard life and casualty lines and the thinking is if you are happy with Swiss Farm Insurance, health type, you’ll be more likely to buy your other lines from them.  What a great carrot!

            1. were part of the Pelosi plan, because really, we all have our own Imaginationland in our own heads. It’s not fair to expect the rest of us to live in yours.

              1. are right here

                The penalties are,

                • Section 7203 – misdemeanor willful failure to pay is punishable by a fine of up to $25,000 and/or imprisonment of up to one year.

                • Section 7201 – felony willful evasion is punishable by a fine of up to $250,000 and/or imprisonment of up to five years.” [page 3]

                Now to me the word “imprisonment” means someone goes to prison.  This was very easy to look up, but I guess that it’s easier to post lying snark than get the real facts for some.

  14. and will always be a public option supporter.  But we need to get beyond the current myopia.  We get what we can now and use the do-nothing Republican opposition against them later.  And getting what we can means using every bully pulpit we have to exhibit the growth of the hairiest balls in town.  Use every political 2×4 we have in the Senate shed upside Lieberman’s head.  Stomp on the throats of every Senate Republican’s pet bills.  This Harry Reid pantywaist sleigh ride needs to end immediately!

    Still, I much rather this be done intelligently, than fast.  Sure, Obama could have tried the Bush way, push something through before Americans understand what just happened (Iraq).  But we suffer the effects of that approach now.  Getting the proper foundation laid today means the framers can pound their nails tomorrow.

    Look at what has been added to Social Security/Medicare since their passage in 1935 and 1965.  If adjustment and addition comes next year, so be it.  Social Security became law during the bad economic conditions of the 30’s.  If we cannot get some healthcare movement now, I fear the opportunity will be lost.  People ARE suffering right now because of the inability to get coverage. Do we leave 40 million with zilch because of pride?  Or do we get some of those covered while we can. Do we take the Bolshevik/Penry approach of putting ideology before the needs of the suffering? Or do we get a fellow American to see a doctor for the first time in 30 years?  And just as Medicare has become one of the most loved government programs in America, so will healthcare reform become more acceptable to more people if it is done properly at the outset.  Hell, even Reagan opposed Medicare before he was for it.  

    But what do I know.  I was a Hillary delegate, who voted for Obama.

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