President (To Win Colorado)
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(D) Joe Biden*
(R) Donald Trump
80%
20%
CO-01 (Denver)
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(D) Diana DeGette*
(R) V. Archuleta
98%
2%
CO-02 (Boulder-ish)
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(D) Joe Neguse*
(R) Marshall Dawson
95%
5%
CO-03 (West & Southern CO)
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(D) Adam Frisch
(R) Jeff Hurd
50%
50%
CO-04 (Northeast-ish Colorado)
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(R) Lauren Boebert
(D) Trisha Calvarese
90%
10%
CO-05 (Colorado Springs)
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(R) Jeff Crank
(D) River Gassen
80%
20%
CO-06 (Aurora)
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(D) Jason Crow*
(R) John Fabbricatore
90%
10%
CO-07 (Jefferson County)
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(D) B. Pettersen
(R) Sergei Matveyuk
90%
10%
CO-08 (Northern Colo.)
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(D) Yadira Caraveo
(R) Gabe Evans
70%
30%
State Senate Majority
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DEMOCRATS
REPUBLICANS
80%
20%
State House Majority
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DEMOCRATS
REPUBLICANS
95%
5%
March 25, 2010 02:16 AM UTC
118 Comments
But seriously, behavior like this is a cancer on our democracy and our society.
The same mentality that bombed a church in Birmingham and murdered four innocent children.
William Sloan Coffin said that you cannot put the freeze on history. Unfortunately, there are those who will try nonetheless.
for that kind of criminal and reprehensible behavior. And there should be no leniency in the courts when they are caught and tried. I have far more sympathy for the down-and-out thug who mugs someone for money than for these disgusting brownshirts trying to intimidate those who have democratically and civilly prevailed in the legislative process. Every last one of them should do hard time, for the threats alone.
Shame on these fools! They need a time-out, behind bars.
This sounds like what David Sirota is doing. Geez.
(I vote yes on that)but he isn’t threatening with violence those with whom he disagrees.
The fact is, this is a republic in which we delegate the authority to represent the will of the people via democratic election. The majority of those we elected to represent our will voted for this bill so it must be accepted as legitimately representing the will of the people within the context of our system.
Next chance to change the make-up of the body that has the right to legislate on our behalf is coming in the November election. Elections are the only legitimate venue for altering the make up of the body that represents our will as long as our elected officials operate according to the requirements set forth in our constitution, allow us redress via courts and allow us to exercise our constitutional rights.
Deciding that we disagree with those we elected is not just cause for armed rebellion. That’s what elections are for. Those threatening to over-rule the legitimately expressed will of the electorate via violence are not neo-revolutionary patriots but traitors to everything the United States of America has ever stood for.
Its criminal thuggery. And utterly predictable. Tea Party GOP panderers know this is coming. They’re always telling the Tea Party crowds things like:
“We must stop this attack on our freedoms, this fascism! But no violence, now.”
http://dumpbachmann.blogspot.c…
What grownup talks to people like that? What elected official talks to crowds like that? Confused ignorant ones, that’s who.
Shouting “baby killer” and “you lie” on the House and Senate floor, then suddenly you start thinking that violent protest might be just the thing. Republicans like Rep. Randy Neugebauer have a responsibility to consider the example they are setting when they do things just to earn brownie points with their base.
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shouting “baby killer” at a concession that is an obvious baby killer is the same as threatening to kill a particular person.
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and the penalty under the law for those two equivalent crimes ought to be the same.
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Barron X, I am not sure if you have working towards the one goal of imitating Libertad or not. However during the last few weeks your efforts seem to be working.
From this comment it is obvious you and Libertad have achieved brotherhood, with one exception. You have yet to post obtuse and silly graphics such as useless graphs, inane pics or unusually weird videos.
Congratulations on reaching a low goal.
since he found out that Colorado Springs is welfare town totally dependent on massive government spending. The cognitive dissonance of realizing that he lives in a welfare town occupied by government workers and his own belief that he lived in a government free utopia has taken a real toll on him.
It is the burden of our times that when a liberal talks about the dangers of encouraging violence, conservatives feel they need to immediately defend the right of manipulative politicians to ramp up the rhetoric so some one else will get hurt.
Liberals think political violence is the definition of terrorism. Conservatives who are big on fighting terrorism think political violence is justified when it is done to a liberal. Makes sense to his lordship I guess but I’d flunk him on his understanding of American democracy. You see Barron in a functioning democracy the Republicans don’t always win every vote.
Pimping violence to try and intimidate Democratic legislators on the next vote shows how low the Republican Party has fallen. It also shows how lacking in real solutions and utterly impotent they are to stop this Democratic legislative brilliance.
to hear such garbage from Barron. Wow.
Obama chastising the Supreme Court in his State of the Union as the judges sat in front of him….
that gave 1st Amendment Rights to corporations, as if they were people, and deservedly so.
You think Barack Obama was stoking anger against them that could lead to violence and death? I watched the state of the union, and you’re just flat-out crazy if you think he was inciting violence.
I’m sure it sucks that you can’t find examples to claim “parity” of any kind… but the fact is, only one political party has spent the last year and a half playing to the anger and racism of people that are now threatening the lives of their fellow Americans over politics.
were enemies of the state, that they should watch out for violence or anything of the kind.
You can try to minimize the irresponsible behavior of the Republican leadership all you want but it just doesn’t wash. Rs are trying to have it both ways, using their crazies, bowing before Rush and all the other media hatemongers, and claiming that they are innocent of encouraging the lunatic fringe.
You can’t point to any similar influence of any lefty personality or organization operating among elected Dem officials. You all love to bring up Olbermann and Maddow, neither of whom can honestly be compared to a Limbaugh or Beck, but even if you insist they should be, Dem elected officials exhibit no fear of contradicting them or of disowning extremist groups on the left.
Dem leadership has engaged in partisan hyperbole but the behavior of the Republican leadership has been irresponsible to the point of depravity
No TRUE conservative would ever advocate violence. They would just advocate armed resistance, and if some crazy person interpreted that as violence, well who can blame them really after Democrats were so totalitarian?
There, did I just take care of the conservative response on this site?
What deranged maniacs would take conservatives at their word when they call for armed insurrection to prevent Democrats from taking over? You liberals are so touchy.
Armed resistance is a threat, threats spread fear. fear is how terrorists rule.
aren’t we at war with all terrorism?
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so, after voiding the Declaration of Independence and the 1st, 2nd and 4th Amendments, what will you do after lunch ?
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It sums up the political divide in this country absolutely perfectly, and puts it in eloquent historical perspective. This is just another chapter in the ongoing battle between those who cling to a less equitable, less efficient, and less sustainable past, and those who seek to create a more equitable, more efficient, and more sustainable future.
Even Glenn Beck had a segment today denouncing stupid violence over legislation.
In the next segment he stoked up some other fear instead…
These are acts of terrorism and they’re being investigated by the FBI.
Glenn Beck, the Rest of Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, Sarah Palin, Senator Jim DeMint, Rep. John Boehner and the rest of the “compassionate conservatives” who rallied and incited the tinfoil hat crowd are directly responsible. If anything happens to any members, their families or friends, the blood is on their hands.
Playing dress like a bunch of revisionist assholes is one thing, sending death threats to members of Congress and their families is a federal offense.
Anyone want to complain about the DHS report that right-wing violence is up again?
Bachmann is one of the worst when it comes to advocating violence.
They’re stoic Lutherans.
Or so says Garrison Keillor.
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but it isn’t called “terrorism.”
its called “assault.”
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read American Fascists: The Christian Right and the War on America by Chris Hedges, a graduate of the Harvard Divinity School and a New York Times overseas reporter for over twenty years.
These people believe they have the right to conduct political discourse through violence because they believe their beliefs are ordained by God and when someone believes that, its easy to take the next couple of steps by first, demonizing anyone who disagrees as immoral and second, degrading them to something less than human. That’s how the Nazi’s took over Germany and as Mr. Hedges points out, the Religious Right movement “has seized control of the Republican Party.” These people do not believe in compromise and they look at something like health care legislation as a conspiracy by some unspecified evil group of people or organizations, to intentionally undermine the United States. It sounds unfounded and silly, and it is, but these people believe it and therefore assume they can use any means to get their way. They’re not interested in a Republican form of government, not over the long haul. They’re interested in a government that reflects only their values because other values are immoral. Make no mistake about it, at bottom, they are totalitarians.
The complete and across the board refusal by Republicans in the House and Senate to compromise on health care reform is a reflection of this trend. Frankly, from where I sit, as a former active Republican, the best thing that could happen to the United States, at this moment in our history, is the dissolution of the Republican Party. It no longer serves a democratic purpose in our land.
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contribute to the American Constitution Party AND the Libertarian Party.
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Like the right’s contributions to Nader in 2000. Why not contribute to parties that have no chance in order to cripple the GOP? Thanks for the suggestion, Barron. Dems forever courtesy of silly splinter groups.
for managing to do what no Democrat, including our own president, was able to do for this election year–rile up, piss off, energize and activate my base. I want them to stay around for a long, long time. They’re making my job so much easier.
… other than that something needs to be said, by the very people who’ve been stoking this lunacy for the past two years or so.
Gun and ammunition sales didn’t go through the roof because of an impending Chinese invasion, or a sudden uptick in hunting. They are by and large a sign of a large reactionary group of citizens who believe some rather unrealistic things – and a lot of them seem to be fans of Beck/Limbaugh/Bachmann/Palin and the Republican Party leaders that have been backing them.
The people making these threats are sick; they need universal condemnation, and I doubt we’re going to see that from the right side of the aisle.
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsme…
was running today- he’d get creamed by his own party.
The problem is the difference in Republicans in the 60s and Republicans now. There has been lots written about how there used to be, in the not too distant past, moderate Republicans. Now the Republican party wants nothing to do with moderates and purposefully pushes them out of the party, or at least out of elected office.
I wouldn’t consider David Frum really even moderate but he will take a beating for this article as he has taken a beating over the last couple years for his ‘more moderate’ writing.
http://www.frumforum.com/waterloo
David has also been doing a lot of interviews. I believe it was Hartmann that he was on yesterday, or maybe it was today.
New story today: Frum fired by the American Enterprise Institute for criticizing Republican tactics.
There’s more details here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/…
According to 9News, Markey threatened amid health care vote
Where’s Cory Gardner in all this? Still courting the thug teabaggers, birthers, 9/12ers and the rest of the mob?
The silence from republicans is nothing short of support for these types of action
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if the local police are short-handed, I will personally volunteer to help protect Rep. Markey.
That offensive conduct is completely unacceptable. It is, actually, anti-American.
I support the right to arm oneself in order to protect against a tyrannical government imposing its cruel dictates on the populace.
But this health care “socialization,” if that’s really what it is, is not being dictated by a tyrant. It is the will of the people, as expressed through their elected representatives.
It may be a mistake, even a big mistake. But the only legit way to oppose this sort of objectionable turn of events is by
#1 educating the electorate; and
#2 getting it reversed through the ballot box.
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a bunch of us ultra-conservative types ought to (with Rep. Markey’s permission, of course) organize a cordon of (? unarmed ?) guards around her abode.
We don’t like her vote, but are willing to put our lives on the line for her to be able to cast it as she sees fit.
Who’s with me ? To do this 24/7 for a week (how long will she be in town ? Just the weekend ?) will probably require 5 people per shift, 4 6-hour shifts.
Are there 100 conservatives that check this site who would be willing to sacrifice a chunk of their day (or night) to stand against these thugs ?
It would be easy to round up 100 military vets here in the Springs, but Rep. Markey doesn’t live here.
Suggestions ?
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I think that gives the loony tunes the publicity they crave. What I think is more powerful is that we all very clearly say we find their actions reprehensible.
I’m the angriest I’ve ever been about what’s happening in the country, but I’d honestly give my life to protect an elected rep from some douche with mental problems.
Do you pols understand that Barron and i are the norm, not the exception?
however it would appear that of the modern republican/conservatives out there you and Barron are the exception.
I too would defend any elected official regardless of party…
Country ALWAYS comes before party.
it is the indoctrinated/brainwashed haters (of democracy) that we have to defend against.
On lefty blogs and msnbc. It’s a great way to try to marginalize legitimate opposition, but it’s not the real world.
in the House and Senate, and most of its Republican members. And the near majority (or bear minority) of GOP who still imagine Obama was born outside the US. And the GOP governors, and the GOP legislatures, and the GOP school boards. Need I provide the links?
Then there is the Murdoch empire…
http://www.livescience.com/php…
When 24% of republicans believe President Obama is the anti Christ and 38% think he is doing many of the things Hitler did and 41% or republicans think he is unamerican and 45% thinks he is a domestic enemy that the US constitution speaks of and 61% thinks he wants to take away American’s right to own guns should.
Should we be surprised that a significant portion of Republicans want to use their guns to prevent this unamerican enemy of the state who is doing what Hitler did and may be the anti christ?
Seriously, the GOP is moving outside the realm of rational political thought.
That’s frightening. Not surprising, but frightening.
Credit where it’s due. You still aggravate the hell out of me but you are a patriot. Too bad your kind is getting to be so rare on the elected right.
You certainly won’t be hearing the GOP leadership calling for any such thing. They’ll just be saying, as gently as possible and with qualifications that the left is just as bad, that they don’t approve of violence while pointing out how justified the anger is. They’ll side step any responsibility for fueling the hysteria both on their own behalf and on behalf of Fox and talk radio. They certainly won’t be asking their base to protect any Dem lawmakers.
n/t
You are exactly the last person I’d want carrying a gun and standing next to me.
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will you stand with me ?
This is the sort of threat to our system that ought to bind us, even us, together.
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You’re an honorable man.
According to 9News, Markey threatened amid health care vote
Where’s Cory Gardner in all this? Still courting the thug teabaggers, birthers, 9/12ers and the rest of the mob?
The silence from republicans is nothing short of support for these types of actions.
Just trying to add more context to the situation.
The Post has the story. Mark Udall’s DC office also received a phoned-in threat on Sunday after the passage of HCR. http://blogs.denverpost.com/th…
My thought is that Udall’s signature respectfulness and unwillingness to play politics is part of why this took so long to hit the Spot. But if Republicans are inventing attacks against themselves (see: Eric Cantor), maybe that helped decide whether to give Udall spokesman Tara Trujillo the go ahead to tell the Post about, you know, actual threatening behavior.
The total democrats targeted so far is now at least a dozen. It’s encouraging that this man apologized for his behavior, after being contacted by police.
Maybe that’s the silver lining to all this–Americans across the isle are now patriotically lining up to protect even congressmen they most disagree with.
The Post has the story. Mark Udall’s DC office also received a phoned-in threat on Sunday after the passage of HCR. http://blogs.denverpost.com/th…
My thought is that Udall’s signature respectfulness and unwillingness to play politics is part of why this took so long to hit the Spot. But if Republicans are inventing attacks against themselves (see: Eric Cantor), maybe that helped decide whether to give Udall spokesman Tara Trujillo the go ahead to tell the Post about, you know, actual threatening behavior.
The total democrats targeted so far is now at least a dozen. It’s encouraging that this man apologized for his behavior, after being contacted by police.
Maybe that’s the silver lining to all this–Americans across the isle are now patriotically lining up to protect even congressmen they most disagree with.
No person should feel a fear of violence because of how they vote. No one, ever. The people that did this are fundamentally anti-democracy. I hope they find them and throw them in jail – for years.
anybody got any string?
A trial, a conviction by a jury, and a sentence handed down. We must not lower ourselves to their level.
What’s your response to this story?
This could be one or two people total.
Out of the millions that are furious about the way this shitty-ass bill was passed.
No excuse for threatening anyone, but it’s seemingly really important for you all to make it look as though anyone who is repelled by the way this went down as racist or homicidal, and it’s just not true.
PS leave Gecko the fuck out of it. He’s really struggling and the last thing he wrote was a big mea culpa to all you lunatics.
because I was there on the Capitol Lawn, listening to that collection of idiots screaming their brand of self-congratulating hate.
THAT’S just the ones that made the trip to DC – what’s the ratio of teabaggers who got on the bus to the ones that stayed at home to make pipebombs or cut gas lines?
I don’t blame the few sane, intelligent Republicans I know – I blame the senior leadership of the GOP who created this fucking mess. Tap dance all you want, but this the result of years of making hate and division SOP for all things political. And once this sort of shit is out there, it’s almost impossible to put back in it’s cage.
“Who will rid me of this meddlesome priest?” Maybe they didn’t say it exactly like that, but their intent was clear…
4000 people were yelling threats of violence?
Come on, Dan.
Remember this?
Are the Dems responsible for this? Of course not. Let’s try to keep things in perspective. I’m sure lots of Congressional folks had very vitriolic non-threatening messages, too, but that’s what happenswhen you ram a societal-changing bill that is not wanted through using tricks and bribes.
…I was there – yes, it was the loony-bin end of the Party, but actual Republican Reps came out and egged the crowd on. They applauded what they were screaming and what was on their misspelled signs.
They released this creature, from their carefully crafted message of “government takeover of health care” specifically designed to attract the anti-government nutjobs. Clean up this mess!
If it were an anti-war protest during the Bush admin. Again, this is pretty selective outrage.
And it is designed to be a government takeover. Just because there’s no public option at the moment, something will need to be made available after the private insurers go out of business.
With the cost of the penalty so much lower than carrying insurance, combined with a mandate that the insurers accept anyone at any time, what’s going to happen to “working families” (I always wanted to throw that garbage union term in a sentence) when their rates double or triple? Why would they continue to be insured when they can pay a small fine and just join when something happens?
the fine for not buying insurance has been eliminated…
no argument just helping out.
now the argument.
the American public is unhappy with THIS bill as it does not do ENOUGH.
the American Public WANTS single payer OR a public option.
That’s the fact.
Would you not agree the American public deserves what they want?
we do deserve the administrations we elect…NO?
Let’s keep this to the realm of facts, please. Most of the anti-war protests took place DURING the Bush years (funny how they largely disappeared after Obama’s election, isn’t it?) and no such whipping up ever took place. You are out of bounds for suggesting that they would, given that fact.
Now… I know for a fact that most of the hard right marginal protesters are, like you, law abiding citizens who wouldn’t hurt a fly. But some are not. Even if the number is just one or two, Oklahoma City showed exactly what one or two people can do.
If something happens, the leaders of the GOP and the right wing media will have that blood on their hands. That is not hyperbole, that is a fact.
There were no Dem leaders to my knowledge using gun sight targets on Republicans, or saying “he’s a dead man”, or wanting Americans “armed and dangerous on this issue”, or breaking Congressional district office windows.
And they didn’t have an entire news network and nationwide radio system constantly suggesting this kind of stuff to an apparently large group of slightly unhinged people while they stood silently (or encouragingly) by.
The worst I heard during those years from any Dem leader or media personality was Mike Malloy, and he never (while I was listening to him) rose above calling Bush and friends criminals and an illegitimate President; he didn’t advocate overthrow, or ignoring laws that were passed, or being violent in any way.
That’s the truth. That’s the difference. The GOP has made a deal with the devil that Dem elected officials simply have not. Period.
Republican members of Congress openly calling for revolution.
“At least 10 House Democrats are receiving access to increased security after receiving threats linked to their votes on the health care overhaul bill signed into law on Tuesday.”
Someone said that the problem with Marxism is that Marx didn’t create a second human nature.
Progressives will find that people don’t like being told what to do. I know I don’t, especially by a friggin’ community organizer. I will resist.
AS B-X pointed out, this wasn’t the result of some secret Executive Order, signed on a Friday night (with was the standard with our previous President) this was a result of the democratic legislative process.
Since you don’t like the result, you’re advocating sedition? Just checking…
Last time I checked, we were a constitutional republic, not a democracy. The Founders warned us about faction,
“Complaints are everywhere heard from our most considerate and virtuous citizens, equally the friends of public and private faith, and of public and personal liberty, that our governments are too unstable, that the public good is disregarded in the conflicts of rival parties, and that measures are too often decided, not according to the rules of justice and the rights of the minor party, but by the superior force of an interested and overbearing majority.”
http://thomas.loc.gov/home/his…
That said, I don’t intend to take up arms against the govt…yet. I will peacefully resist, even if it means jail time. If a particular state tells the Community Organizer, “FU”, I will support that state’s efforts in whatever way I can.
I intend to write a letter which informs law enforcement and elected representatives of my intentions. If the day should come when I find myself in non-compliance, I will make public all communication I have with the governing authority.
I will resist, as will millions like me. Unless of course Progressives pass a Constitutional Amendment which gives them the authority to compel me to purchase health insurance. Given the contentiousness over the last year, Progressives should have expected this type of reaction.
I can’t wait till our first half-black president turns the hoses upon those who simply want to be free to make their own choices. Delicious irony.
Maybe you could quote some lines from “The Turner Diaries” as well. That would cement your reputation on this site.
Yes, I’m sure the hundreds or thousands of your will hoot and screech about tyranny and other hot-button words lifted from the lexicon of the Extremist Right. And quoting Jefferson out of context is one of the favorites of the Teabagging Right when they feel the need to demonstrate their vicitimization.
But please do remember that Founders is plural, Jefferson did not contribute directly to the Constitution (he was having a petulant snit in France) and throwing out carefully selected lines from web sites does not make you smarter than the rest of us.
I would throw out one of my favorite Jefferson quotes: “Errors of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it.”
Here’s one of those guys now. I doubt he’s the only cockroach under this rock.
What does being half-black have to do with anything?
Are you also a member of the KKK, Aryan Nation, Neo-Nazi or White Nationalist organizations?
Our President also graduated from Harvard Law School magna cum laude and has a degree in Political Science specializing in International Relations.
So, really, what does being half-black or a community organizer have to do with anything?
You want to make your own choices in the status quo? We know that will involve double digit, probably around 30% a year, increases. At least with the health care bill there will be an attempt to constrain increases. All of the same insurance companies will still be there for you to ‘choose’ from.
The status-quo is unsustainable. So if you know that the status-quo is unsustainable, the best thing to do is nothing and maintain the status-quo. That is self-destructive.
You have probably done community organizing yourself but you probably call it recruiting.
we elect representatives to be our voice. The majority of those elected by the majority constitutes the legitimate voice of the people in passing legislation until the next election.
Like it or not, according to everything in our constitution, the bill legitimately represents the will of the people exercised through their elected representatives and our rights have not been violated. Therefore, no justification for any form of resistance other than at the ballot box in November or through the courts if you believe the bill to have provisions that violate the constitution. Armed resistance or rebellion is in no way called for here.
And incidentally, no hoses have been turned on any Tea Party demonstrators. They have been allowed every right and privilege the constitution guarantees them. If you are waiting for our half black President to persecute you, hell will freeze over first.
Congress passed a complete shit sandwich, and the President signed it. That is a reason to protest and to work to elect those who will try to prevent the damage I believe it will do to our country.
In no way shape or form is this law a reason to even think about violent actions against members of the government or it’s agents.
Those who have protested against this bill and the administration have been able to do so as is their right. They have not been arrested, or in any way harassed by the government because of their views. I see no sign that such actions will be taken in the future. There is no oppression against which one needs to resist.
I reject the premise of your post, and the views you state there. You do not represent the views of true conservatives and your obvious racism has no place here. In other words, you won’t find any fellow travelers among those of us on the right who are regulars here. You’ll just find scorn.
You sound like what I consider an ‘old-time’ conservative. I hope that there are a lot more of you around than it seems right now.
where all the conservatives are advocating violence against representatives who vote the wrong way, um, here you go.
So out of three conservatives on the site, one thinks death threats against Betsy Markey is OK, and the other two think there could only possibly be one person in the country who’s doing it.
I guess you found him here then.
What will you do, Jon? How many progressives will you kill to defend your right to be kicked off your insurance? Will you crash a plane into a building? Will you fire into a crowd? Will you kill police officers? Will you stalk your victims at church? Which technique of conservative terrorism is your favorite today?
they can’t win by the rules–got spanked hard even, last time, can’t try and organize in a manner that would allow them to gain power legitimately–so they turn to this.
This is the predictable outcome of all the heated rhetoric and dog-whistling that the GOP has been engaged in.
This is their mob, even though that mob has less party-loyalty (at least to the leadership) than the GOP would like. It’s their Frankenstein.
Bullies are chickenshit cowards–they cannot win by having better arguments, better organization, better skills and tactics, so just like how the conservatives ‘argue’ in comment threads–by name calling and insults and threats–so too they bring it to the non-virtual public square.
Where are the mainstream GOP leads denouncing this?
McCain did it this morning, Boehner did it earlier, etc.
This is pretty selective outrage. It’s a clever tactic, but you can’t paint everyone that furious about this travesty as being dangerous or approving of violence.
And this is from the very, very right-leaning network of “fake but accurate”:
Fantastic.
Maybe John Boehner is denouncing violence now but he was inciting it less than a week ago.
Maybe it’s time for some of these bold “leaders” to start thinking before they open their mouths. Words can have consequences, deadly ones.
But I’ve also seen video of him denouncing threats and violence related to health care.
If he would think before he opens his mouth, that’d be even more fanfuckingtastic. I’m done being charitable here–if these people want to lead, they have to start by acting like leaders, not petulant high school bullies.
It was dangerous and irresponsible, and saying “I didn’t mean it” after the violence happens doesn’t make it OK.
But “stupid” implies he didn’t have any idea what was going to happen. He provoked it, he wanted it to happen, and then he tried to deny responsibility for it. Same as any coward.
Your party has unleashed these people. I understand it seems OK as long as it wins you elections, but don’t come asking for help when they turn on you.
and he was weak on the denunciation, instantly turning to excuses and avoiding any responsibility on the part of the over heated rhetoric of the right. Hardly a heroic display.
… once they stop stoking the fear all the rest of the time.
They made this beast; they incited it, and if they didn’t realize what they were doing then they’re all terribly fscking stupid. And they’re not stopping the fear and loathing machine, either. If they were serious about it, they’d say – and do – something more than a one-time condemnation.
I like my insurance, PR. I feel safe with it and my girls are protected. If my rates double or triple because Kaiser is forced to take people who decided to stay uninsured until something bad happens to them, that puts my family in a state of flux and that makes me angry and protective.
Your rates were destined to double or triple anyway. That’s what doing nothing, as your party leaders deemed the strategy to take, would have resulted in. So if it happens now, well, at least all those uninsured people are insured too.
But make no mistake – rates have been soaring for years and years and years. It would have happened anyway. You know this to be a fact, and using it as a excuse to get angry now is deplorable.
Not doubled or tripled. Not even close.
If we could remove mandates they’d go down. I’m personally not planning on getting pregnant any time soon, yet I’m covered for it.
I said the would have. And I’m only using the same exaggeration as you, so don’t ding me for playing by your rules.
If you want to speak in realistic terms, then tell me how much your coverage has gone up over the years. Is your coverage through your employer? If so, you probably do pay double what you did 10 years ago.
I went with Kaiser during open enrollment in 1994, and my share of the premium was $175. When I retired in 2008, my share was over $750.
And when you say you’re covered for pregnancy, I assume you mean your family is. Your wife and your beautiful daughters are covered for pregnancy, and that’s a bad thing??
Or as soon as the rates go up more than they regularly do already. I won’t hold my breath.
I am pretty happy with them. But over the years our rates have gone up substantially faster than inflation and so have our co-pays. I’d have to check on the monthly rate, but the co-pays have, in fact tripled. So the status quo isn’t the safe harbor you are painting it as.
LB, I acknowledge your personal rejection of violence. But you err to one side in your arguments (just as others may have erred to the other side). Rhetoric, stoking of popular violent emotions, is not independent from the outbreak of actual violence. Social violence of this sort is the cresting waves that rise from a sea of cultivated popular anger.
I can’t use the best single best and clearest example, because you’ll angrily accuse me of making a comparison that I’m not, but the list on which to draw is endless:
1) Racial violence rises from non-violent sea of racism pulsating underneath it.
2) Ethnic cleansing and genocide in various parts of the world rise from the non-violent ethnic animosities pulsating beneath them.
3) A man at a rally (whether on the left or the right, whether protesting against the right or the left) who screams angrily and raises the level of anger in the crowd incites another to throw a stone, which incites ten more, which is enough to set the dominoes falling and a riot to ensue.
These are chain reactions, in which the stoking of anger and hostility is causally linked to the predictable (and in this case frequently predicted) outbreaks of violence that ensue as a result.
Republican merchants in anger don’t get to stoke their followers into apoplexies of rage, and then merely by denouncing the virtually inevitable violence that follows absolve themselves of all responsibility. That’s just too convenient, and too divorced from the reality of their role in the violence.
What happened to the Republican emphasis on personal responsibility? Are you saying that those who acted in ways virtually guaranteed to produce these results don’t have to take responsibility? Republicans oppose material welfare for the poor, but seem eager to seek a hand-out of moral welfare to absolve themselves of responsibility for their own choices.
Then why are there so few arrests at these tea party rallies, particularly compared to some of the anti-war protests of the last few years?
they hover on the brink of violence rather than falling over the threshold. But as long as that brink is maintained, the inevitability of the threshold being breached grows proportionately.
the chain reaction doesn’t have to come to fruition in the same geographic spot or at the same moment as where and when the fuse was lit.
is a criminal offense. Totally aside from Free speech.
the left does use Non violent resistance in its protests and protesters from the left ARE arrested far more often than those protesters from the right.
I say some sort of equal treatment under the law should be applied here.
for the purposes of the criminal offense, temporal and geographic (or communications) proximity to the riot are going to be a big consideration. And courts aren’t going to call most of what incited this violence “inciting a riot,” because, I think correctly, it moves the bar between free speech and criminal speech a bit too far, especially when it is so thoroughly intertwined with political speech (the most protected category of speech). This is an area in which personal responsibility, normative control enforced by the diffuse widespread outrage of the public, and punishment at the polls are the more appropriate means of redress (for most of the politicians who contributed to this).
the politicians who incite this type of violence should be voted out.
However the ones in the crowd making actual threats should be arrested.
Now after reading a post further down the page from this one. By sxp151 I have to agree with. As as soon as a cop were to attempt an arrest of a tea bagger… the fear of an “oppressive” government becomes “reality” to the tea bagger. thus then feels justified in spraying bullets twards the cops… that whole “armed resistance” thing…
THATS when it becomes truly out of control.
Before that happens the vitriolic hate desperately needs to be toned down.
That’s the responsibility of sane Republicans. (who at this time desperately need to speak up.) As if they do not take that responsibility the blood is then on their hands. NO one else.
And I will be Joining the “union” Army.
right wingers don’t tend to use nonviolent resistance, which left wingers (sometimes unfortunately IMO) like to use in nearly all their major protests. That means they break laws, albeit nonviolently (which is a paramount thing to keep in mind).
but the reason is because right-wingers bring guns when they want to make a statement. They kill government officials and bystanders, and when cops try to arrest them, they kill the cops too. Police officers tend to shoot those people rather than arrest them.
Left-wingers tend to dress up in silly costumes, lie in the middle of the street, unarmed, and ask cops to arrest them as a stunt. It’s kind of different.
When someone finally starts shooting at the cops in the middle of a tea party rally (I don’t think we’re far from that right now), what do you expect the rest of the protesters to do? A bunch of angry and armed teabaggers who have been warned for the past year that the government is coming to send them to the concentration camps and take away their guns? Yeah, I have a theory.
cutting people’s gas lines?
I don’t know. Just a guess.
According to the NRCC, Rep. Perriello was responsible for what happened to his brother.
That’s not Republican leadership denouncing anything – that’s saying it’s perfectly okay for upset citizens to do this kind of shit.
He’s fine with Palin’s gun sight imagery, too.
But he did it in a way that turned into an attack on the Democrats.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITI…
According to him, his district office was shot at three days ago, and he is one of the 10 Representatives currently using a security detail.
The AP reports something different – that a building housing a consultant working for him was shot at. And the Richmond Times Dispatch says Cantor doesn’t know if the shot was fired one or two nights ago.
Now, I’ll give him some benefit of the doubt, but… don’t you think that an attack on a Congressman’s – especially with a gun – would have been national news the day it happened? And don’t you think Cantor’s office staff would’ve noticed the next day?
I was thinking more about how Cantor is using this to attack Dems. He’s saying “I got shot at too, so it’s really not just Republicans getting threats of violence and actual violence perpetrated against them”
Not only that, but he’s saying that the Dems have stirred up the violence by playing up the attacks at Dem HQ’s, and threats against Congressional reps who voted for the bill.
According to the Richmond Police, the bullet in question hit the first floor window of a direct mail outfit; Cantor had a campaign office on the top floor of the building.
Further, the bullet was apparently a stray – a random shot in the air that hit the window on the way down, penetrating the window but not the window blinds.
Official diagnosis: Cantor is a lying, dirty fargin’ icehole.
I mean, I suppose it could have been a horde of anti-Semitic liberals firing guns into the air in support of their 2nd Amendment rights.
“A horde of anti-semitic liberals firing guns into the air ululating in support of their 2nd amendment rights.” The “ululating” part is very important. And, like “obstreperous,” how often do you get to use it, really?
I read through all of the posts, but didn’t see any mention of Denver’s famous Democrat political attack con-artist, Maurice Schwenkler.