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December 11, 2011 03:47 AM UTC

Newt Has Not Yet Begun To Fight (GOP Debate Open Thread)

  • 58 Comments
  • by: Colorado Pols


A fire-belly newt meets the establishment.

ABC News:

Only three weeks from the Iowa caucuses, the top Republican candidates will square off tonight at a pivotal debate in the state capital. The debate, hosted by ABC News and moderated by Diane Sawyer and George Stephanopoulos, starts at 9pm ET, live from Drake University.

The prime-time debate comes as the GOP race has started to reach a boiling point. With Newt Gingrich surging to the top of the pack, former front-runner Mitt Romney has launched scathing attacks from all sides, from his key surrogates to a political action committee that, while not affiliated with the campaign, is funded by many Romney donors.

The ad accuses Gingrich of “flip flopping” on a slew of issues and claims that Democrats are hoping that the former House Speaker – rather than Romney – secures the Republican nomination. With a picture of President Obama on the screen, the ad asks, “Why is this man smiling?” The answer: “Because his plan is working,” the ad’s narrator says. “Brutally attack Mitt Romney and hope Newt Gingrich is his opponent.”

All of the GOP also-rans, along with erstwhile frontrunner Mitt Romney, are expected to direct their fire at Newt Gingrich tonight–naturally, it will be very interesting to see if one of them goes rogue and does not, since that strategy pretty much services Romney. The difference between Gingrich and previous recipients of the upstart dogpile, like Rick Perry and now-departed Herman Cain, is that Gingrich is quite capable of articulately firing right back.

Bottom line: even if the Colorado GOP brass is right–and we’d say they are–that “Newtmentum” is just another round of unelectable folly, as he’s about to demonstrate, he’s no Herman Cain.

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58 thoughts on “Newt Has Not Yet Begun To Fight (GOP Debate Open Thread)”

  3. He is a well practiced slime dweller and bottom feeder. His best is yet to come.

    And, on a possibly related note, the WashPo is making notice that The Newt’s friend Jack Abramhoff is starting to buy his way back to his former level of life.

    Politics, Republican style, is so predictable.

  4. Keep in mind that many here on Pols think of how they would vote if they were Republicans. But there’s a reason you’re not Republicans – those voters are coming at it from a very different place.

    And from TPM

    So again, no one laid a glove on Gingrich. And that alone makes it a huge victory for Gingrich since the tide of race is moving overwhelmingly in his direction.

    And for those joyful at the thought of Obama vs Gingrich – be careful what you wish for. I think he could be a more competitive candidate than Romney. And again, he won’t be more competitive with those of us that are voting for Obama regardless of the GOP candidate. But he could be very competitive with the undecided in the middle.

    And Gingrich has a giant advantage over Romney. He’ll charge up the base and that means more vote and more volunteer. Meanwhile Obama has a dispirited base. So it could be ’10 all over again where who has the most charged up base wins.

    1. I know you know that David, I’m not attacking you. But the differences between primary and caucus are pretty marked.

      I think Ron Paul will win the caucus.

        1. Was his money laundering cenviction a felony?  Ya know Newt did some money laundering & fraud tied to his book deal while teaching, so it would be almost a 3rd rate comic book to pair the ex-exterminator & Prof. Newt together as a criminal team hell bent on ruling the world.

    3. will drive the Democrats this time. I think you will see a backlash against the heavy- handedness of the GO(T)P. I don’t think Obama needs to do much motivating now.

    4. But I don’t think he’s a better candidate than Romney for the general.  He’s got too much baggage from the past; Obama can completely neuter him on economic issues with his Fannie Mae “historian” connection and can neuter him on good governance issues thanks to his huge ethics issues while in charge of the House.

      Newt is also much more likely to throw out outrageous idiotic statements that can be ridiculed and taken down through extensive ad buys.  If Newt ties this up early there will be months and months of time to chop Newt out at the knees with his own words.

      1. but, the other Rs attacking them during debate does no good. newt is cool under pressure. The ridiculous things are said when they don’t even need to be and usually rather casually. Then his opponents are wasting valuable on air time talking about them rather than more important stuff. Let your ads go after those notions.

  5. Don’t mean to be an attention-monger, but I meant to post this video in this thread, not the last one (mistake on my part last night)

    Anyways – my video reaction to the debate – I think Newt won and Romney lost badly – enjoy all!

    1. While I always admire your personal loyalty… Newt attractive? Yuck!

      Also you mention Jewish bloodlines on your mother’s side. If it comes through her maternal line then congrats! You’re a nice Jewish boy who could even move to Israel and claim the right of return! No matter how small a fraction as long as it’s the right fraction.  

      On the other hand, if it comes through your Mom’s father’s side, nice but not a Jewish boy after all.

      Happy Interfaith Holidays, Ali! With love even though watching you sing the Newt’s praises is painful. Newt and Doug Bruce? Never mind.  I’ll just try not to think about it too much. Especially at meal times.

      1. BC – thank you for the kind induction on being part of The Tribe

        Unfortunately for me, it is my mother’s father’s side that has major Jewish bloodlines – my mother’s side is part Spanish, directly descended from Spanish Moriscos that were kicked out of Spain – all this time, we assumed it to be Muslim Moriscos, but it’s looking more and more like its Jewish Moriscos who went to Central Asia (the Bukhuran Jews) with many eventually becoming Muslim

        My father’s side claims Hindu bloodlines, so I’m pretty proud to call myself an interfaith practitioner 🙂

        I love you BC! Hope you’re having a great holiday season as well!

        1. I beg to differ with BlueCat. Just because the Orthodox and Conservative movements in America consider someone to be Jewish only if his/her mother is Jewish, they are only two movements within Judaism. There is also Reform, Renewal, Reconstructionist, and Jewish Humanism. Many of the more liberal movements within Judaism do not make this distinction, and allow its members to self-identify as Jews. I personally went through a very traditional Jewish conversion to pacify the angina of my in-laws before marrying my husband 26 years ago, and I can assure you I felt no more Jewish afterward than I did before being immersed in the not-so-warm water while reciting all the prayers. For me, it was an unnecessary formality – I already identified as a Jew for years prior to that day. And for the record, a growing number of us with interfaith backgrounds (and some without) identify as “interspiritual”. Keeps the purists and dogamatists frustrated. 😉

          BlueCat is absolutely correct about Israel, however. In Israel, they are kind of picky about such things. (For many of us who live in America, it’s not a big deal.)

          1. And Jewish law does accept conversion.  Israel, however, only accepts orthodox conversion, mainly because the idea of any other kind of Judaism existing in an official sense is a very new concept in Israel where the religious minority still has a stranglehold due to the wacky proportional representation system that makes them necessary to ruling coalitions. Back in the 70s you had two choices in Israel.  Orthodox Judaism or nothing.  90% chose nothing. Right here in the 60s my Jewish on her dad’s side only cousin had to convert (conservative conversion) in order to be married to her Jewish guy by a conservative rabbi.

            That’s changed a lot here since then but not much in Israel. Non-orthodox movements, such as the Reform movement are struggling for legitimacy but the overwhelming majority are still both completely secular and completely subject to orthodox interpretations of who is or is not a Jew and everything to do with things like marriage.  Jews and none Jews still have to take a trip to Cyprus to marry.

            And, Ali, I have nephews who are almost as diverse as you with Russian Jews (representing various old Russian Empire areas including Ukraine, Caucasus and I’m pretty sure Turkmenistan) and German gentiles on their mom’s (my half sister’s) side and a Persian Bahai dad. They look pretty much like you :-).

              1. but it’s not so important for men as, if they marry Jewish women, the kids are Jewish by even the strictest law.  That’s why it’s almost always a matter of a non-Jewish woman converting to marry a Jewish guy and please the guy’s family.

              2. but our kid is considered 100% Jewish by the most orthodox standards, no conversion with or without possible ceremonial snipping required on said guy’s part and in spite of the fact that neither of us are big on organized religion, although I’m fond of some of my ancestral traditions. He’s also a completely approved and adored  son-in-law.

      1. And you are correct Nancy! My most important issues are gay rights, rights for undocumented immigrants and fiscal conservatism

        Regarding Uncle Newt and his position on gay rights –

        Yes, Uncle Newt’s position on gay rights frustrates me, however, Obama is also against gay marriage – couple that with the fact that, according to the people I’ve spoken with, Obama is heavily increasing the deportations of undocumented immigrants, well above what W Bush’s Administration was producing, we’ve got a President who’s not appealing to any of my major issues, both as a fiscal conservative and social liberal

        In all, on the issue of gay rights, unfortunately, it’s a WASH with both major political parties

        However, Newt Gingrich supports the key parts of the DREAM ACT in addition to residency for many undocumented immigrants – I wish he supported full-out amnesty (like Ronald Reagan) but alas, his position on immigration is better than President Obama’s

        In conclusion, if there’s two reasons why I can call Newt Gingrich a good man it’s because – 1. he is my uncle and he’s family – and – 2. he (for the most part) supports the rights of undocumented immigrants, moreso than Obama

        1. Saying that Obama is leading the war on gays and illegal immigrants is as bad as Perry saying that Obama is leading the war on religion.  OK. Not that bad but still stupid.

          The Obama Administration just last week added treatment of gays and lesbians to the criteria for aid to other nations.

          Don’t Ask Don’t Tell is history

          Gay and Lesbian couples are getting married in a number of states.

          Compare that record to the hysterical hatred spewed forth by the Republican Party towards gays and your statement that it is a “WASH” is pure bullshit.

          1. That was news not so long ago, big enough to get fox news all up in a lather. The fact that Obama doesn’t have the votes to overturn it doesn’t mean he supports it.  

              1. and eat their kids.

                If the Obama Administration had not administered the immigration law then Muhammad would be hollering about Sanctuary Obama going soft on the outlaws.

                This is just Muhammad letting his love for Newt cloud his perception of his erstwhile party or should I say just more bullshit, Muhammad keeps trying to spread that whatever Obama does is wrong or somehow isn’t good enough.  The Obama Administration isn’t pushing the boundaries of progressive government but it is light years ahead of the social Neanderthals on the other side.

                  1. I’ve often said that nothing undercuts the immigrant cause more than fellow Latinos that are against amnesty for undocumented immigrants and/or ardently for 1070 – which is why the GOP adores Marco Rubio and Susanna Martinez

                    Nothing helps bigotry or the denial of rights, more than a minority who supports the ‘deniers’

                    With all that said, it’s a SHAME that the first minority President is not pro-gay-marriage and pro-amnesty (or at least some kind of pro-amnesty)

                    Facts on Obama, regarding immigration –

                    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44…

                    Regarding gay marriage, the victory on DADT is more credit to Senator Bennet, Senator Udall, and Lady Gaga, a movement that made it impossible for Obama not to sign off on the repeal

                    From there, the result of gay marriage being legalized in many States, again, is more credit to Governor Cuomo and Lady Gaga than it is Obama (and credit to us, as activists, btw)

                    But let’s be honest – the goal isn’t just a repeal of DADT – it’s the FULL LEGALIZATION OF GAY MARRIAGE

                    As long as Obama is President, conservatives and bigots will forever be able to point to him and say “Well, even your liberal President is against gays!” – and they can do that until Obama switches positions, which doesn’t seem likely

                    So yes, to me, it’s a “wash” when comparing Obama and Gingrich on gay marriage

                    1. I’m a very proud Democrat

                      I am proud of Nancy Pelosi

                      I am proud of Jared Polis

                      I’m proud of Mark Udall (and Michael Bennett)

                      But I’m lost on Obama?

                      He supports Gitmo

                      He supports the Patriot Act

                      He’s against gay marriage

                      And he’s not pro-immigrant

                      Perhaps I haven’t been a Democrat long enough to say this, but….. Obama disappoints me.

                      Pelosi makes me proud. Polis makes me proud. Udall, Bennet, etc etc… many Democrats make me extremely proud. Even Al Franken – I love that man!

                      But Obama?

                      Not proud.  

                    2. You’re an unsuccessful Republican who is an opportunist Democrat.

                      I suppose if I couldn’t get my old party’s attention, I’d find a new party too.

                    3. I’m an opportunist?

                      You know Ralphie, not a single one of my principles changed in becoming a Democrat – I uphold the same values I did when I first ran in 2008, as I do now

                      If I was an opportunist Democrat, I would be anti-TABOR and irrationally supportive of President Obama

                      When I give my word to something, it is bond – and history had proven that, particularly my pro-immigrant and pro-gay stances that I honestly carried, even when running as a Republican

                      So I ask you Ralphie – what about that is opportunism, sir?

                    4. profit in any manner from your switch, you’re correct.  But if you do, in whatever form, then Ralphie’s statement would be true.  

                      😉

                    6. can never really be made to make sense, on the policy front, with your new status as a Dem invites this kind of criticism, Ali.  Unconditional personal loyalty is essentially emotional. You will continue to find it difficult to achieve any sort of consistency that will appear rational to your fellow Dems between your personal loyalties and many of the positions that caused you to decide that the Democratic Party is a better fit for you.  

                      But that’s your problem, not the problem of those, like Ralphie, who can’t be blamed for calling it like they see it when that tangle of contradictory impulses of yours prevents you from, shall we say, making a whole lot of sense?  But you’re a big boy, very smart and I’m sure you can take it and will eventually work it out for yourself.

                      If you do decide to run for something as a Dem in Colorado, please, and I can’t emphasize this enough, stop talking about how much you love and adore people like Doug Bruce and Newt Gingrich. You may as well just flush directly down the toilet any money spent campaigning while bringing things like that up.  Colorado’s Doug Bruce, Gessler, Stapleton and Gingrich loving righties won’t vote for any Dem and no Dem will vote for someone who sings the praises of some of your old “uncles”.  Better to just spend it on things like a hot cars.    

        2. That is very interesting. I am going to pose the same question to some of my facebook friends who are activists on immigration and see if they agree, or if they have another perspective. Some of them have been very involved with immigation issues for years. I will let you know what they say.

          Your Uncle is very fortunate to have you on his team. All of my Uncles are Republicans. I would give them a kidney if they needed one, but I would never give them my vote.  ðŸ™‚

  6. “Losing another election to your Democratic opponent might be the second best thing that happens to you personally, but I’m certain the vast majority of folks in attendance tonight want a Republican candidate that can and will win this election.”

    1. for a would be candidate to call losing a  lucky thing.  Kind of invites people to make him really happy by putting an end to any possibility of a future career in politics.  We can all do him a huge favor by helping him lose again?

    1. My late father stopped chasing women only after advancing age combined with years of treatments for prostate cancer put paid to a lifetime of not serial but simultaneous and multiple infidelity. The marriages had to be serial but there was always a mistress and a girlfriend or two in the mix. And all he had was charm, not money or power. Newt’s just arrogant enough to think that he can get away unscathed with Clintonian hi jinks in the White House even in today’s nothing’s ever private era. Not that he’ll get there, mind you.

      1. I’m also wondering why the Dems are not on television reminding everyone of his history. His sex scandals make John Edwards and Herman Caine look like boy scouts.

        1. Much better to raise it later, in the event he becomes the nominee and the GOP is stuck with him. And Perry and Mitt are trying to contrast their long marriages and lack of divorces with his history. I think the level of restraint on the R side is because this is such a weird cycle for them and they aren’t sure which bridges they can or can’t afford to burn.

        2. One way of looking at this is through a version of the far right born again thinking. Gingrich sinned (quite a few times) with many women (including his exquisite hypocrisy time while going after Clinton). He has apologized and married, at least a couple of his sins (trying to ignore divorcing the others).

          He has done the born again thing, although that is going to be a problem soon, becoming publicly pious. Pretty soon his conversion to Roman Catholic is going to become a problem.

          Another possible explanation is that his base considers adultery,lies and hypocrisy just confirmation the he is “just like them”.  

              1. a member of the Mormon “cult” or a member of the Church that so many grew up hearing preachers call the Whore of Babylon for the primary and then between one of those and an African American Democrat in the general. How the heck did the supposedly all powerful extreme Christian right allow this to happen? Too much focus on ending choice, forcing schools to abandon teaching science, instituting anti-constitutional government sanctioned sectarian prayer, banning mosques and bashing gays?

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