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May 19, 2012 03:02 PM UTC

Weekend Open Thread

  • 32 Comments
  • by: Colorado Pols

“Character is much easier kept than recovered.”

–Thomas Paine

Comments

32 thoughts on “Weekend Open Thread

  1. http://www.esquire.com/feature

    Twenty-five years ago young Americans had a chance.

    In 1984, American breadwinners who were sixty-five and over made ten times as much as those under thirty-five. The year Obama took office, older Americans made almost forty-seven times as much as the younger generation.

    This bleeding up of the national wealth is no accounting glitch, no anomalous negative bounce from the recent unemployment and mortgage crises, but rather the predictable outcome of thirty years of economic and social policy that has been rigged to serve the comfort and largesse of the old at the expense of the young.

    1. I was a younger person in 1984.  I resented like hell the fact that the older people in our extended family had all the goodies and we, a struggling family at the time, got no consideration or benefits.

      I like my life now.  I wish to hell, the privileges we enjoy now had been available when we were a struggling family.

      One thing that has been overlooked is that the “Greatest Generation”…that would have been the old folks in 1984….earned, and rightly so, the foundations that created the middle class….the GI Bill that allowed men (mostly) to get a college education and a house.

    2. Medical costs used to be an individual responsibility. We now have Medicare & Medicaid and they are a giant part of the budget. And the vast majority of that spending goes to old people. Old people have a lot more medical problems.

      It’s not solely medical spending, but that is the lion’s share of the direct governmental wealth transfer. (And even if we go to single payer, this will still hold.)

      1. The Medicare tax did not come in until sometime during the Reagan administration.  There were seniors in 1984 receiving medicare who never paid a cent into it.

        The first generation of medicare recipients(Depression area)  also helped the second generation of medicare recipients (Greatest Generation) maintain their wealth because they did NOT have to pay for the medical care of their parents, which previous generations had to do.

        Ironically, because the senior population has such good access to medical care, we are living longer, adding to the burden.

        What you are saying, DT, is basically true.  I am just pointing out it has been going on for almost fifty years.

        The other big change is demographic.  There used to be five or six workers supporting the senior population, now it is down to three……after the introduction of the Pill, families got smaller.

    3. I will go along with that. I don’t sense a nefarious aspect to it. Just self-interest.

      Makes me think of an old episode of Star Trek. Where the kids were fighting the “Grupps”.

    4. As an under-25 who has been incredibly fortunate and worked really, really hard, I have pretty decent prospects — which could, of course, evaporate overnight if the economy crashes again. I happen to really like corporate America, and frankly, if the wealth gap is going to keep growing, I’m going to do my best scrabble my way into the 1% through blood, sweat, and tears, because that’s really the only way to have the security it takes to make long-term plans these days. OK, so I have a decent chance, because I happen to be pretty good at serving the interests of corporate America.

      Most of the kids I grew up with, though, haven’t been so fortunate — and most of them have career goals a lot more noble than mine. Art, health care, conservation, activism, etc…. These are good young adults who work hard, and right now they’re looking at a future in which they may never be able to own a house or start a family because they simply won’t be financially secure enough.

      I’m speaking about the generation gap at a big conference soon, and these stats are definitely going in my talk. I hear from older people that my generation is entitled and averse to hard work. Although some individuals may be, overall, that couldn’t be farther than the truth. What we’re averse to is working hard for less buying power every year compared to the people who aren’t working at all, whose wealth increases thanks to our work every year. If you can afford to live on speculation and investments, you can make your money from the fruits of somebody else’s labor without any commitment to them, without ever looking them in the eye, and then go to the polls and vote for candidates who will deny them health care, increase the interest rates on their student loans, and defund the educational institutions that give them a chance to make good.

      You can’t take it with you, old folks. How about investing some of it in scholarships or small businesses that employ your kids or grandkids’ generation?

      1. PG: You’ve got us old people figured out pretty well.

        We’ve never mentored. Never guided our institutions’ hiring practices toward gender and minority fairness. Never supported struggling (non-familial) young artists or cared for–under our roofs–(non-familial) kids kicked out of their parent’s homes but not quite able yet to make it on their own. Never bought a collegetown home to house a nephew and his wife until they achieved their degrees.

        And we never, ever worked to support the Medicare and Social Security of those then older than us. And, of course, we never cared for our parents or anyone else older than us. We were much too selfish and resentful for that.

        Myself, I never envied the 1%-ers. Too busy living to envy, so I was never tempted to emulate them. But I wish you well in whatever future awaits you. Please forgo the blood and tears though (too dramatic). Sweat and perseverance should suffice. They worked fine for most of us lazy, stingy old people.

      2. did work all our lives and did pay into Social Security and pay taxes. We also supported almost two generations on Social Security…

        We (me and mine) don’t have a lot of money, now.  We don’t have investments.  We do pay taxes on a portion of our pensions and social security, that have already been taxed once.  What we have and what families desperately need is security. It used to be once that there were jobs…union sector jobs and public sector jobs, including the military, that gave families “security.”  Difficult as it is to believe, health insurance was once non-profit.

        Let me make it perfectly clear, Progessive Cowgirl, I think your generation is hard working.  I do not think that your generation is entitled or adverse to hard work.  I am glad that your generation and the one before it did not have to face the draft…..that gave a hell of a lot us the Gi Bill for home and college…even during peace time.

        But, seniors have security that families do not.  That is not fair.  I would not look forward to being poor again as a result of hostility from the younger generation.  However, it would be a hell of a lot easier than when we were a struggling family…during the Reagan years…

        Some seniors may be the “cash cow” that you think we are. I don’t know.  What I do know is that for an aging population to be supported, there has to be a younger generation having enough children to provide the workers to keep everyone productive and consuming  to keep the economy going.  I think it is much hard to decide to have children today than it once was.

        But having kids will always be risky and involve sacrifice, that is the only question I have about your generation.  I believe that as a society, we must put the need of families and children first.  

        As a senior citizen, it is hard as hell for me to say that. I certainly don’t want to give up any security to the younger generation….but that makes me selfish, not rich.  I am being honest here, not to justify my feelings…..just to put them out there.

        1. On less, in terms of buying power, than they earned as their parents aged.

          I know not ALL seniors are doing well. But I also know a lot of seniors who live on their investments quite well, and intend to leave everything they have in the bank to their own kids — and ironically, the ones looking forward to that ARE, frequently, the lazy and entitled ones.

          I, personally, envy the 1% and intend to climb up there one day (and hopefully then spend the rest of my life starting nonprofits — I have a lot of ideas). But for the sake of my generation, all I envy is the opportunity to have one career and make a living sufficient to have a family from it. All my best friend wants in the world is to have a job taking care of people and be able to live and have one or two kids on what she earns. She’s 31 and it hasn’t happened yet, largely because a couple of different health crises while uninsured set her way, way back and now are affecting her credit score, leading to credit discrimination in her job search. All she wants is to care for others. The job she does have is as caregiver for a quadriplegic. Because when she was ill her care cost money she didn’t have, she’s being denied that opportunity, and people who have health care solely because of their age are busy trying to repeal “Obamacare” and prevent any further progress toward giving young people security in the event of a health crisis.

          Excuse me if I’m a little frustrated. I’m more selfish than most of my friends, and because of it, I’m doing better. That really shouldn’t be how the world works.

  2. He gave it a chance, and look what resulted. In all fairness, I realize it’s not that simple, with the housing bubble and the credit derivatives debacle, but Bush couldn’t be more wrong.

    Who among us believes the same?

  3. When MaryAnn Nellis tried to pay for groceries on April 14, her credit card was declined. Later, she said, she found out why: Her credit card company, Capital One, had flagged an earlier purchase as potentially fraudulent. The problem? A $5 donation to Friends of Scott Walker, the Wisconsin governor’s campaign committee, Nellis said.

    Nellis told a Capital One representative she had not made the donation to Walker, who is fighting an effort to recall him as governor in a closely watched, expensive election set for June 5.

    “Over my dead body,” said Nellis, a potter and retired teacher in upstate New York who describes herself as “adamantly angry and upset” at Republicans such as Walker. Nellis disputed the charge and she was issued a new card.

    Though the amount of money was small, ProPublica decided Nellis’ complaint was worth following up. There have been other reports recently about insecure campaign-donation websites and the potential for fraud. Earlier this month, The Washington Times reported that Restore Our Future, the super PAC supporting Republican Mitt Romney, was using a collection system that made online donors’ credit card information accessible to even amateur snoopers.

    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/201

  4. Updated at 7 a.m. ET: BEIJING – Blind Chinese social activist Chen Guangcheng began the final leg of his long odyssey to freedom, leaving Beijing Saturday on a flight to the United States.

    http://behindthewall.msnbc.msn

    …NBC News watched as two security officers walked up and checked in plain black suitcases, apparently the family’s luggage, and a ticket counter representative confirmed that Chen and his family had checked in on the flight.

    God bless Chen, his wife and children as they settle in the US and their families they they left behind in China.  

  5. ‘Small-Goverment’ Schilling’s Biz Goes Bad, Asks Rhode Island For More Taxpayer Cash

    “Schilling spent no small amount of time in his career preaching the Republican mantra of smaller government and personal responsibility. He did this fresh off the historic Red Sox World Series win when he backed George W. Bush in the 2004 campaign. He did it on the stump on behalf of John McCain in 2008,” McGrory wrote. “Smaller government? Call me crazy, but I’m betting that wasn’t exactly what Schilling was extolling when he sat behind closed doors on Wednesday pleading with the members of the Rhode Island Economic Development Corp. to put more public money behind his fantasy video game venture.”

    1. he wasn’t behind the closed doors of the Chicago mayor’s office pleading for money to revamp his baseball field. There’s sure a lot of that kind of small government stuff going around among right wingers, isn’t there.

  6. Its playing repeatedly on YouTube from something called America Future Fund(?). It lays out how Obama is owned by Wall St. It’s very effective both in how it presents it and because it’s true.

    It’ll be interesting if this attacks resonates – imagine Obama losing to Romney because he did Wall St’s bidding – that would be the definition of Irony.

  7. It’s 20 years since the jazz legend passed away. We remember a man who cooked well, dressed better and had some choice words for Nancy Reagan:

    Davis was a man of few words. When he did speak, his words often had a similar effect to a hand grenade being lobbed into the room.

    In 1987, he was invited to a White House dinner by Ronald Reagan. Few of the guests appeared to know who he was. During dinner, Nancy Reagan turned to him and asked what he’d done with his life to merit an invitation.

    Straight-faced, Davis replied: “Well, I’ve changed the course of music five or six times. What have you done except fuck the president?”

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/musi

    After reading up about the 60s, I’m convinced that Miles can claim some credit for the civil rights movement, in that he held more than a few fundraising concerts for the Freedom Riders. But even more subtle, I think his icon as a Jazz master made it ok for hip college kids to buy his albums and be fans, and see past the idiotic stereotypes of the era.  

    1. It’s a list that’s 20 cities long… it would be quite surprising if more than one were from Colorado.

      For what it’s worth, anyway.  It’s actually about who orders the most books from Amazon; something I haven’t done for about 10 years.  I read plenty; I just prefer local bookstores or other online sources.  So I don’t get counted.

  8. The Daily Prophet has this story in the Political Section:

    Seventh Congressional district candidate Joe Coors has been named to the National Republican Congressional Committee’s “contender” list – a sign the NRCC sees the race as increasingly competitive.

    Isn’t this similar to this line from The Office:

    Michael Scott: Chili’s is the new golf course, it’s where business happens. Small Businessman Magazine.

    Jan: It said that.

    Michael Scott: It will, I sent it in; letter to the editor.

    So, the RNCC says it’s competitive, so now it has to be reported by all Right-leaning rags (like the Daily Prophet)as such?

  9. http://livewire.talkingpointsm

    On Obama’s criticism of Bain Capital:

    I have to say from a very personal level I’m not about to sit here and indict private equity. To me, it’s just, we’re getting to a ridiculous point in America. Especially, I know, I live in a state where pension funds, unions and other people are investing in companies like Bain Capital. If you look at the totality of Bain Capital’s record, they’ve done a lot to support businesses, to grow businesses, and this to me, I’m very uncomfortable with.

    Criticizing Obama for what his preacher said when he wasn’t there is EXACTLY THE SAME as criticizing Romney for what he did in his job for 15 years.

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