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June 04, 2012 03:43 PM UTC

Monday Open Thread

  • 50 Comments
  • by: Colorado Pols

“Do not be too hard, lest you be broken; do not be too soft, lest you be squeezed.”

–Ali ibn Abi Talib

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50 thoughts on “Monday Open Thread”

  1. A single election rarely determines a democracy’s fate, but some matter more than others. Tuesday’s recall election of Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker is one that matters a great deal because it will test whether taxpayers have any hope of controlling the entitlement state and its dominant special interests.

    Specifically, we will learn if a politician can dare to cross government unions and survive. Mr. Walker isn’t facing this extraordinary midterm challenge because he and a GOP legislature asked public workers to pay 12.6% of their health insurance premiums and put 5.8% of their paychecks toward their pensions. Those are small sums compared to what private employees typically pay.

    Source: wsj.com

    Certainly explains why Walker and GOP seem to be running the table and Obama is running away.

    2. The narrative remains the same – recall efforts (or any other form of accountability) of Republican politicians is always some dark conspiracy, baseless and evil benefiting Unions, Gays, Communists and any other group they can divert attention to.

      Recall of Democratic politicians are always with merit and should be approved with out a vote.

      Looks like the Kochsucker Walker is on his way to a lobbyist position with Karl Rove after Tuesday..


      Two new polls show tight race in Wisconsin recall



      Two public opinion polls released on Sunday show Wisconsin Republican Governor Scott Walker with a lead of three and six percentage points two days before the election to recall him because of a new law reducing the power of public sector unions.

      Public Policy Polling, a Democratic polling firm, said Walker was leading 50 percent to 47 percent over Democratic challenger Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett in its final survey. Angus Reid polling had Walker ahead 53 percent to 47 percent. Both findings were within the margin of error so the results could be even tighter.

      The PPP margin of three percentage points compared with a five-point Walker lead in their survey three weeks ago.

      “If Democrats turn out in the numbers they did in 2008, Tom Barrett will win a surprise victory. If they don’t, Walker will survive,” Dean Debnam, president of PPP, said in a statement on the polling firms website.

      http://www.reuters.com/article…

      (Note that the link is to an actual news story, and not an editorial full of Repub bluster…)

      1. but crap like that only matters to folks that pay attention and like facts — no bullshit trolls performing their daily dump.

        Scottie jumped at the chance to run for Milwaukee Country Exec when the former resigned due to a corruption scandal.  Scottie and his sycophants had no problem with recalls then.

        And now, as Phoenix broaches, WI has to answer to themselves if they return a corrupt small-minded beady-eyed doofus back to the state house.  They would do this with knowledge that his tenuous disruptive reign might be cut short by state & federal investigations.  There are RICO folks now investigating Scottie’s simple plan. His Milwaukee County matter has now seen 6 folks charged or convicted and 13 folks given immunity from prosecution so they’ll talk, so  Scottie’s got to be feeling a tighter pucker than ever before.

    3. Though I disagree with this opinion piece on so many levels; at its base, this opinion piece is backward.  The real question should be, can large groups of citizens control their government when it becomes corrupted by greedy corporate interests who flood the race with cash, utilizing every legal loophole (and possibly several illegal ones) to win the election against the will of the people?

      Governor Walker is, according to best sources at this time, the main target of a John Doe investigation over misuse of his government offices – a charge he has long denied as an increasingly large number of his circle of associates has been indicted, pled guilty, or accepted immunity deals.  A growing mound of evidence suggests he was corrupt back when he was Milwaukee County Executive, and has taken the techniques he used then to the governor’s office.  Should he win tomorrow, he likely faces indictment soon after.

      At every step of the way Gov. Walker and his buddies in the state legislature hav lied about their goals and gone out of their way to actually avoid considering the will of the people.  While forcing underpaid government workers to pay a larger amount of their income to cover their benefits, he’s turned around and given tax breaks to wealthy investors.  He’s lied about job growth in the state.  He’s lied about the reason for his anti-worker actions.  He’s lied about the criminal investigation.  He’s hired private lawyers to hide the state’s unprecedented redistricting efforts while stepping on the toes of the local government redistricting boards.

      If Wisconsin votes to keep him in, well, it seems that at least the Federal investigation might remove him from office soon enough regardless.

      1. I understand you think this piece is wayward, obviously it uses the foundation of FDRs government union policies to compare in a favorable light those of Wisconsin.

        Again, lots of union boss fueled accusations of corruption, maybe Holder will investigate, but to date Obama has been AWOL in Wisconsin….probably because he knows the outcomes contrast horrible to his failed Presidency.

        Heck, Obama is probably very pissed the unions decided to fight this, make it a national issue, and as a result forgo handing over tons of cash to Obama 2012.

          1. is a democratically elected leader of a collective bargaining unit, as defined by the 1935 National Labor Relations Act and subsequent legislation.  This is different from a private sector boss, who has tyrannical power over the lives of others with no accountability to anyone except, vaguely, the stockholders, if any.

            1. But since young snarkster wants to run his keyboard about things he hasn’t the slightest clue about, I’ll explain why “collective bargaining” is a good………make that a GREAT………thing for everybody that works at a profession in which there is union representation, whether they enjoy union protection or are employed in  non union shop.

              Collective bargaining represents a large pool of employees, negotiates in THEIR best interests, trying to navigate them to a wage that moves them into the middle class, benifits that allows them to pool into reasonable coverage, and a retirement pension that allows them to live with dignity in later years.

              Employers don’t “give” wages, benifits, or pensions if they don’t have to, any more than they “give” or “supply” jobs.

              They come to labor agreements so they can make money.

              And when the union shop is paying $22, the non union shop hs to pay $22, or the best will go somewhere that does. So even the non union guy prospers in a union environment.

              What’s wrong with a person making enough to buy a car, own a house, raise a family?

              Answers please, young asshat.

              Our wingnut and dolt libertad knows nothing, and never will, unless he educates himself.

              And he’d be wise to before his mom boots him.  

              1. They had that guy on who does focus groups and ad response measurements … Luntz is his name I believe.

                The union ads just don’t stick and you can really see why the people are so mad at the government union bosses.

                Now if Walker wins, I need to ask what’s his next reform measure? I’m guessing it’s education reform.

        2. BREAKING: Scott Walker’s Closest Aide And Good Friend Snitches On Him

          We are just one day away from the historic recall election that could determine the future of our entire country. The stakes could not be higher; simply put, Wisconsin needs Tom Barrett to win this election. On the day before the recall we bring you some breaking news:

          Timothy Russell, Scott Walker’s closest aide and good friend snitched on him and confirmed that Walker has been stonewalling prosecutors. As you may recall, Timothy Russell was arrested earlier this year for stealing money from “Operation Freedom,” a program for veterans and families.

          This revelation indicates two things and neither look good for Scott Walker. The first, Timothy Russell is now cooperating with prosecutors. The second, Scott Walker is a target of the current John Doe investigation. If Scott Walker were to win the recall election, he would likely be indicted shortly afterward. Scott Walker has remained consistent in his stance that he is not a target of the investigation. He’s been quoted as saying this as recently as yesterday.

          http://www.addictinginfo.org/2…

          Hmm…he wins tomorrow only to be hauled away in Prison orange? (Or since it’s Wisconsin, a cheddar yellow?)

            1. Too bad, but he’s done some work over there…

              Sounds like the folks out of Milwaukee are doing a decent job of rolling this one back to Walker, though.  Like most good prosecutors, they’re taking the time they need to gather the evidence they need to make the case.  Maybe we can start an ex-governor’s housing project down in Littleton.

            2. Skid marking, tea bagging Illinois Senator Mark Kirk was thrown under the bus by ex-wife Kimberly Vertoli AND his ex girlfriend Dodie McCracken, in  dual complaint to the FEC.

              Oh, oh, the markster was funneling campaign funds, hiring girlfriends, and engaging in ensignesque behavior.

              Where’s the rethuglican outrage over “improprieties”?

              Didn’t think so.  

        3. 6 convictions and 13 immunity deals.

          Walker has started a legal defense fund, which he’s only allowed to do if either he or his campaign is a target of an investigation (and he’s said he won’t be using it to defend his campaign…).

          The supposed-to-be-secret e-mail system is now a plea deal court accepted fact (at least the one he used while in Milwaukee is – the Feds are apparently going after a similar system he’s alleged to have set up in Madison).

          Keep defending him if you’d like, but everyone around him is falling to this investigation and all the signs point to the boss as ringleader (with current RNC chair Reince Priebus as a knowing accomplice…)

  2. Krugman: Reagan Was More Keynesian Than Obama

    Just over three years into Reagan’s first term, government jobs grew by 3.1 percent; at the same time during Obama’s tenure, they’ve been cut by 2.7 percent. Hundreds of thousands of public sector jobs have been shed in recent years. Government jobs also grew under President George W. Bush, which helped keep unemployment down during most of his two terms.

    …

    The Keynesian theory holds that government spending is necessary help lift the economy when it’s under-performing. Data shows that Republicans tend to accept it when they’re in power and that they benefit from it. But they’ve relentlessly attacked Obama’s efforts to stimulate the economy in the wake of the Great Recession, and have led the charge against financially helping cash-strapped states avert layoffs of public employees like teachers and police.

    1. Obama’s policies failed, specifically he failed the people.

      Instead of appropriately responding with Reaganesque results Obama choose to follow the Pelosi-Reid strategy of creating a trillion dollar friends and family grant and gift program — ARRA. This program simply doled out taxpayers money to select and unsustainable freak shows.

      In turn it restricted any ability to deliver needed support for teachers, nurses and firemen — those government jobs you cite as retrenching. Worse it failed to deliver to the people the services they expected with their excess taxes. Last Obama accomplished this by doubling or more the national debt.

      It’s kind of like a mismanaged town … Instead of making sure the grass was watered and cut, the roads had no potholes, the streetlights stayed on …. the leader of the free world decided to fund some whacky and wild stuff that was clearly unsustainable.

      1. Blargle blargle RYAN blargle BOEHNER blargle BLARGLE! Blargle TAX CUT Blargle blargle AUSTERITY Blargle Blargle.

        See? It’s not hard to speak ‘tad!

        1. The approach seems to be, string incomprehensable catch phrases together to make a sort of sentence. An associated cogent thought or actual POINT is not required.

      2. When teachers lose their jobs, it’s because Obama’s stimulus plan directly saved tens of thousands of those jobs in the first two years of his administration when states were slashing budgets?

        Your logic is astounding.

        (I also note that you ignored the parent post which noted that Reagan and Dubya relied on increased government workers to prop up the economy – which is apparently good when they do it, but not when Obama tries to do it and is largely blocked and vilified by conservative elements in Congress.)

        1. Of course I could agree with you, but that would make us both wrong.

          How did Obamas ARRA policy work if it failed?

          ARRA purportedly saved government worker jobs, yet the article cites Obamas failure to achieve Reaganesue results.

          Again, Krugman uses tortured efforts to twist facts and outcomes in a desparate attempt to justify his view of economics.

          1. When gas was hitting over $4/gal a few years ago, he insisted that it was market forces.  Only later did we find out that the forces had their thumbs on the scales.

            ‘Tad, the reason is worked and then it didn’t, is because IT WASN’T ENOUGH MONEY OVER ENOUGH TIME!  As Krugman points out today, it’s 1937 all over again.  

            Keynsian economics has been proven correct through economic history.  

            Of course, facts mean little to you. I’m amazed to find you here, getting beaten to a logical pulp day after day, year after year.

        1. Participation ribbons are available on the table to the left, back in the corner …. and don’t forget to register Democratic when you pick your ribbons up.

          1. maybe the fact that China kicked our ass in solar, by investing more than 10 times than we did had something to do with it.  

            But hey, they’re freaking communists, so they really know how to waste tax dollars (RMB).

            Good thing Mittens was on hand to beat a dead horse for a photo op though. Love how he always goes for the low hanging fruit. Courageous.

            1. is taking on a “tail wagging the dog” aspect.

              When are we going to hear some Obama ads using the words “disaster capitalism” and “corporate opportunism” to explain to the pubs working class base that the 1% doesn’t really care about their precious social issues?

              Even low information voters can understand being used as a tool. The problem is…the message machine of the uber-right is SO good and SO pervasive, the average white, working class, fundamentalist, Republican, LIV can’t(won’t) see the truth through their fear and hatred.

              To a certain degree, I wish and hope, as does dwyer(I am convinced),the Democratic party leadership will show a little “Bernie Sanders ” and get their backs up, as it were. There has been some evidence on this blog, lately, that I have lost patience with listening to the same old crapola from the right and I have taken a turn for the rude. It is true.

              Sue me.  

              1. I really hope the Democratic party gets more aggressive.  

                The do-nothing obstructionist GOP leadership in Congress really is a gift that they should use.  Fucking up routine business like raising the debt ceiling resulting in the lowering of a sovereign credit rating is something that people need to be reminded of, plus Mitt Romneys whole freaking life is a lie, which is another gift.

                Dwyer does have a point, but I think he miscalculates its effectiveness of Trump style asshattery.  The looneys have already made up their minds.

                I think the debates will be pretty damn good. I hope Obama gives Mittens a few well deserved kicks right in the yambag.

  3. That’s a one month decline of 60%, as Obama’s approval index was only -10 last month.  Why the slide?


    Intensity of support or opposition can have an impact on campaigns. Currently, 24% of the nation’s voters Strongly Approve of the way that Obama is performing his role as president. Forty percent (40%) Strongly Disapprove, giving him a Presidential Approval Index rating of -16 (see trends).

    Source: http://www.rassmussenreports.com

    The Presidents failure to perform and adjust are costing you hundreds to thousands of dollars in needed campaign donations. How?

    Well you will be solicitated directly and when you choose not to cough up the cash they need, they’ll will be forced to go to the unions, trail lawyers, environmentalists, non straight sexual rights groups. Sure you contributed to forced union dues and cut a check to plant some trees or defend a MMJ licensees right to medicate and drive … But now those contributions will need to be tapped to shore up Obama’s turnout.

    Full disclosure: As you all know I believe Obama will win, it’ll be tight, but he wins.

    I guess the question I have after reviewing this is … Doesn’t it piss you off to be forced to cough up cash intended for other uses?

        1. … it’s just an indication that more far-righties “strongly” disapprove than far-lefties who “strongly” approve. That stat shows… well, nothing. It’s junk math Rasmussen peddles because it lets their base — fools like you — see a big negative number for Obama.

          But you know all this because you’ve been told it a bunch of times. This time, you’re actually playing dumb.

  4. I have just heard that Ed Quillen has died, but am unable to confirm at this time.

    Sad if true … agree or disagree with Ed, he has been a good verbal craftsman and an enjoyable addition to the Denver Post editorial page.

  5. ….the special dispensation given to them by Darth Cheney and his pet Bush no longer applies.

    Supreme court rejects Blackwater Iraq shooting appeal

    The Supreme Court on Monday rejected an appeal by four Blackwater Worldwide security guards who argued prosecutors made improper use of their statements to investigators in charging them with killing 14 Iraqi civilians in 2007.

    The justices refused to review a ruling by a U.S. appeals court in Washington, D.C., that reinstated the criminal charges against the guards for their roles in the Baghdad shooting that outraged Iraqis and strained ties between the two nations.

    The shooting occurred as the guards, U.S. State Department security contractors, escorted a heavily armed four-truck convoy of U.S. diplomats through the Iraqi capital on September 16, 2007.

    The guards, U.S. military veterans, responded to a car bombing when gunfire erupted at a busy intersection. The guards told State Department investigators they opened fire in self-defense, but prosecutors said the shooting was an unprovoked attack on civilians.

    http://www.reuters.com/article…

  6. on 60 Minutes last night. Much was rerun but there was some new material especially concerning their future forays into manned space flight as well as cargo flights to space station. Bringing real value to the world, not just investors

    I was particularly struck by the difference between this very successful businessman who appears to value his employees highly and has a net worth 10X Romney’s, and the Mitten Man

    1. Fascinating story of his successes — 100% self-made billionaire, starting with PayPal.  He’s a textbook Renaissance Man and visionary.  Besides designing the Dragon capsule, he also designed and runs Tesla Motors — the electric sports car.

      Unlike Romney, he doesn’t look for run-down companies to crack open and suck the vitals out of.  Musk creates his own industry and working 100 hours a week, delights in the creativity that he generates around himself.

      SolarCity is his latest venture, and surely not his last.

      SolarCity

      Musk provided the initial concept for SolarCity, where he remains the largest shareholder and chairman of the board. SolarCity is the largest provider of solar power systems in the United States. His cousin Lyndon Rive is the CEO and co-founder.[28][29] The underlying motivation for funding both SolarCity and Tesla is to help combat global warming.[30]

      Philanthropy

      Musk is Chairman of the Musk Foundation, which focuses its philanthropic efforts on science education, pediatric health and clean energy. He is a trustee of the X Prize Foundation, promoting renewable energy technologies. He sits on the boards of The Space Foundation, The National Academies Aeronautics and Space Engineering Board, The Planetary Society, and Stanford Engineering Advisory Board. Musk is also a member of the board of trustees of the California Institute of Technology (Caltech).

      In 2010, Musk began a multi-million dollar program through his foundation to donate solar power systems for critical needs in disaster areas. The first such solar power installation occurred on a hurricane response center in Alabama that had been neglected by state and federal aid. To make it clear that this was not serving Musk’s commercial interests, SolarCity noted that it had no present or planned business activity in Alabama.[31]

      In 2001, Musk had plans for a “Mars Oasis” project, which would land a miniature experimental greenhouse on Mars, containing food crops growing on Martian regolith.[32][33] He put this project on hold when he came to the conclusion that the fundamental problem preventing humanity from becoming a true spacefaring civilization was the lack of advancement in rocket technology. He has sought to address this by founding SpaceX to create revolutionary new interplanetary rockets.

      His long term goal is to help humanity through SpaceX by creating a true spacefaring civilization.[34] Musk’s philosophy and description of what is needed to solve the problem are provided in the IEEE podcast “Elon Musk: a founder of Paypal, Tesla Motors, and SpaceX”[35] and article “Risky Business.”[33]

      In April 2012 Musk joined The Giving Pledge, offering a moral commitment to donate the majority of his fortune to philanthropy.[36] Musk became a member of the campaign first popularized by Warren Buffett and Bill Gates with a class of 12 of America’s wealthiest families and individuals, which included Arthur Blank and Michael Moritz.[36]

      1. He used to have a company called Zip2 that sold turnkey web services to media corporations.  He sold Zip2 to Compaq’s Altavisa subsidiary for an undisclosed price rumored to be about a quarter-billion.

        1. Musk bought his first computer at age 10 and taught himself how to program;[7] by the age of 12 he sold his first commercial software for about $500, a space game called Blastar.[7]

          He’s quite the prodigy — easily creating vastly more value (and jobs) than Romney and his Bain Gangers.

    2. Their business model is unique.  The company was started from scratch and their rockets and capsules have been designed from the ground up.  All the machining is done in-house to control quality; all testing is done at the company’s own Texas engine test facility.

      In contrast, Orbital Sciences, next up with a demonstration launch, outsources nearly everything and offshores a lot of it.  Orbital uses a pair of Aerojet AJ-29 engines in its yet-to-be-launched Antares rocket, which are just  rebuilt Soviet NK-33 engines.  The NK-33s were designed and built in the 1960s to power the ill-fated Soviet moon rocket.  Aerojet bought the existing stock of surplus engines, about 37 of them as I recall.  The Antares airframes are built in the Ukraine.  When they run out of engines, they will need to build a factory, but the company is talking about building it in Russia to hold down costs.

      SpaceX’s approach to holding down costs is, in contrast, to design as much equipment as possible to be reusable.  Musk has said that only 0.3 percent of the cost of a launch to orbit is the fuel; the rest is people and equipment with equipment being the largest chunk.

      Orbital Sciences is a so-called “beltway bandit” (expression is an old-time colloquialism; it is not meant to imply that they are thieves) located in Vienna, VA.  They have long-time ties to the DOD, specifically the Star Wars program, as well as to NASA.  They recently plunked two expensive NASA satellites into the ocean with failures of two of their Taurus rockets.

      I think it’s OK to have a couple of different models for getting people and cargo into space, but I rather prefer SpaceX’s “Made in USA” approach.  Ironic but truly American that the company was started by an immigrant–a naturalized, not natural-born, citizen.

  7. Denver Post columnist and my longtime friend Ed Quillen is dead of a heart attack.  As of this morning, services had not been set.  He was 62.

      Together, we formed the Colorado Association of Red-bearded Pundits or CARP because, as Quillen explained, “That’s what we do.”

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