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June 27, 2012 03:46 PM UTC

Wednesday Open Thread

  • 47 Comments
  • by: Colorado Pols

“It is a law of human nature that in victory even the coward may boast of his prowess.”

–Sallust

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47 thoughts on “Wednesday Open Thread”

  1. laughed ourselves into a case of the vapors..

    Last night at the end of his show, Ed Schultz paused to apologize for mis-identifying Hickenlooper as a Republican..

    so funny.

  2. There was this bizarre part where it sounded like Hick was talking up Colorado as a great place to vacation – right now. Did anyone else catch that?

    32,000 people are evacuated and a primary issue is telling people that not all campsites in the state are engulfed in flames? Really?

    1. You don’t need to smoke while hiking….and it’s certainly a better place than say Stockton CA with it’s fiscal crisis and top shelf gangland violence.

    2. with that “All of Colorado is burning” quote?

      I assume Hick doesn’t want to be that guy. And yes, if you stay out of the areas that are on fire, Colorado is a great place to vacation.

      1. The Colorado tourism industry was totally pissed when Bill Owens said that, because of course there were so many places that weren’t burning to the ground and thus were open for business, and he’s essentially turning people away from those places.  

        I think Hickenlooper learned well from that mistake.

          1. I don’t agree that it is insensitive.  I bet you are thankful that your place didn’t burn to the ground – that certainly dosen’t mean you don’t care about the people who lost property or homes in the Springs…

  3. …I am so thankful that Republican legislators have cut back funding for government services, like firefighters, to the bare minimum. The lack of sufficient manpower to stop the fire makes me appreciate that they really did bring about serious cutbacks. That validation gives me a warm feeling in my stomach (and a warm feeling from the flames engulfing my house).

    1. Its mostly on county land, right?  With non-Republican commissioners, I assume.  In any case it is not their fault.  I hear it is upgrading to type I today?

      But if we live in the woods in a drying climate we have to accept they will burn.  In extreme drought years when winds are whipping at 65 miles an hour no amount of ‘manpower’ will stand in the way of embers and flames. Watching what happened yesterday with the Waldo fire was tragic.  

      Good luck out there.  A lot of us are sending good thoughts that way.  (And watching our own forests anxiously). It is scary and sad.  Be safe.  

      2. Most local governments couldn’t afford a C-130 even if they could overcome the political headwinds to buying one.

        There’s not much that could have been done to prevent the Flagstaff fire from starting, and luckily there was a C-130 refueling at Broomfield when the blaze started, so it got an immediate redirect to the new fire.  And also fortunately, the Federal government had pre-staged a Type 1 management team here in case another fire broke out, so there will be a crack fire management team on it today – much faster than normal response times.  Boulder got lucky on government resources.

        But we’re borrowing Canadian planes to fight these fires, and our own firefighting fleet is pretty aged.  There’s not a lot of money going in to resolving that problem.  And there’s not nearly enough money going to resolve the problem of 50+ years of absolute fire suppression without other mitigation in our forests.  These are issues that affect most of the forest fires in the state.

      3. afternoon lightning hits all over the foothills and it caught up around Green Mt/Bear Mt behind the ridge.

        What would any leg have done to keep this from happening?  What “sufficient” manpower would have kept the fire from catching and exploiting natural timber & fuel?  You moved below the foothills to enjoy the beauty and sure as hell not to have Forest Service & other entities clear cut/thin/mitigate in an unnatural way.

        Part of the problem with Front Range fires is the similarity in age and lack of diversity in the forests.  Those qualities came about through aggressive exploitation of the forests with nary a thought to the future.  Now we’re dealing with the sins of the past.

        Boulder was extremely lucky with the rapid response.  Hell, there’s about 10 other fires going on in this state but the one that get’s DT riled is the one in his backyard — pretty typical.  

      1. Last evening, the fire spotted over the crest of the ridge onto the town side. Periodically a tree would explode in flames. There was too much wind for air support.

        Then it rained. Not a lot, but enough to calm down the fires. And then the wind died. Slurry bombers made a couple final runs at dusk.

        This morning, there’s still a fire, but the smoke plume is rather small despite a rising wind in the early morning hours.

        We went back into the house only to discover the horror that had descended on the Springs. Our hearts and prayers go out to them.

    3. Hi David,

      Go outside and ask all fire fighters who are registered Republicans to leave. No, I am just kidding.

      David what would more money do? If it is windy, 1 million air tankers will not help. If the water mains cannot carry more water, 1 million firemen will do no good. If the water mains are big enough, a water storage tank will be too small.  By the time you bulk the entire system, you will be broke. Even if you overcome all the obstacles, you still need a bureaucrat or elected official to give the green light in a timely manner. I just don’t see any of this happening without choice, competition and the profit motive.

      The real solution is 1 or more of the following options.

      1. Build fire proof home.

      2. Don’t build in the trees.

      3. Fight fires outside the box, such as CO2 bombs.

      4. Rely on insurance or other funding source to fight fires, rather than taxes.

      My condolences go out to all Colorado fire victims.

      1. They were flying yesterday to help control the Flagstaff fire.

        Water for tankers is usually dipped from reservoirs or lakes, not pumped in.

        Slurry bombers are the only air support that gets their fire suppressants piped in – and more of them would certainly be helped by money.  Right now we have a very limited support network for slurry bombers – they only fly out of a few airports in the state, because only a few airports in the state have been designated as slurry repositories.  Air support for Flagstaff, High Park, and Waldo Canyon all have been flying out of the regional airport out in Broomfield, and they can only turn those tankers around so fast with one regional airport’s worth of runway.

        The fire fighting air fleet in this country is aging, too – we’re using Canadian slurry bombers to supplement our own limited supply.

        2. divert Homeland Security dollars away from drones & armored vehicles & other toys and properly fund Forestry Service and our air support fleets.

          Hell, how many vehicles & planes & equipment are we leaving behind in Iraq & AfPak that could/should be returned and distributed out to domestic services?  We’ve spent how much money in hardware that’s getting left behind?

          We’re gonna see a helluva dollar tally at the end of this year’s fire season and it will pale in comparison to what the TSA and DHS pisses on their toys for boys.  Pathetic.

      2. that the Haymen fire slowed or stopped when it ran into areas that had been treated for fire mitigation. So while you’re correct that a fire cannot be stopped when conditions are at their worst, fire mitigation (i.e., throwing money at the problem) can save lives and property. That requires decisions that have little to do with “choice, competition, and profit motive”.  

        1. Longer term if we are concerned we need to try to address the root causes.  But for now we need to create defensible space in and in close proximity to our communities, and build more fire ‘proof’ (no such thing, but better is possible) houses if we are going to live among the forests of the South West (especially in times of drought).  When forests dry out, forests burn.  

          Treatment efforts need to be focused around buildings and infrastructure to help lessen fire risk close-in, and to help direct it away from population.  

          But there are no requirements that people build sensibly nor that they treat areas around their homes to lessen fire risk. So this becomes a difficult necessity to implement short of new regulation and law.  

          When I say we need to accept the reality of where we live, for one we need to consider mandatory fire-wise building and even retro-fitting.  

          Of course that is what some might call nanny government, until something happens.  http://www.gazette.com/opinion…  

          1. Do you think the criticism that Lamborn didn’t push fast enough for a federal response is warranted ?  Sounds like he needs help from the people he routinely targets.  

    5. Hope all goes well for you and your neighbors. I hope you don’t really mean that your house is about to go.

      I’ll tell you one thing. The lack of loss of life in these newer fires started exploding all over the state so far is a testament to everyone and every agency and government fighting these fires at ever level.

  4. In a recent PPP poll, it was found that Sens Bennet and Udall’s support is trending strongly negative.

    PPP surveyed 799 Colorado voters from June 14 to 17. The margin of error for the survey is plus or minus 3.5 percent.

    …snip..

    Udall carries a lead in Colorado with 42 percent support and 34 percent opposing him. Udall won his seat in 2008 with 53 percent of the vote.)

    Bennet, who tightly won his race with 47 percent of the vote two years ago, has lower approval with 37 percent support, and 37 percent opposing him, according to PPP.

    Should this concern Obama?

    Source DenverPost.com

      1. Prince Michael def must be ignoring the numbers ‘turd.  Where are his signs? Where’s his grassroots org or his street corner supporters? Seize the day ‘turd and work to bring him down.  Get out there and make yer momma proud.    

    2. Well, I’ve got one for you.

      Look at these results of your positive/negative meter.

      http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/MS…

      Obama +2

      Romney -6

      So, thatk that.  Also, for those of you looking for real results, where you add the strongly favorable to the somewhat favorable and the strongly unfavorable to the somewhat unfavorable, the poll looks like this

      Obama +10

      Romeny -1

      Your response Tad?

      1. Massachusetts, which elected him governor in 2002, is polling for Obama 55-39 according to this week’s PPP poll in the state.

        Not many presidential candidates – especially former governors – lose their home state in an election.

  5. Mike Turzai, the Pennsylvania GOP House majority leader, said that a strict new voter ID law will help Republicans win the state for the first time since 1988.

    “Pro-Second Amendment? The Castle Doctrine, it’s done. First pro-life legislation — abortion facility regulations — in 22 years, done. Voter ID, which is going to allow Governor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania, done,” he said to applause at a Republican State Committee this weekend, according to PoliticsPa.com.

    The comment contradicted the usual Republican line that voter ID laws are for guarding against voter fraud — which is extremely rare if not nonexistent in practice — and not to help elect Republicans.

    This is not a Dem saying that the point is to successfully suppress the Dem vote but a Repug gloating over how well it will work to tilt the election towards them. You’ll note he didn’t say anything along the lines of how voter ID might help the GOP candidate in a race if it’s so close that a handful of fraudulent votes could make a difference. Just straight up bragging about how making it harder for Dem leaning voters to exercised their right to vote is a great accomplishment.

    So you guys can stop pretending it’s all about dedication to legit elections. If that were the case, R officials would be way more concerned about going after people who send out official looking and sounding misinformation to keep voters from the polls at the proper locations and/or on the proper day and in time for the proper deadlines, a far more serious and pervasive problem.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…

  6. That is all>


    Bill would make it a crime to knowingly mislead voters about elections

    The Senate Judiciary Committee on Tuesday began discussing a bill that would make it a federal crime to knowingly mislead voters as to the time and place of a public election – an effort Democrats say will help crack down on voter intimidation and disenfranchisement due to dirty political tricks.

    Sens. Ben Cardin (D-MD) and Chuck Schumer (D-NY), who introduced the Deceptive Practices and Voter Intimidation Prevention Act in December, said the bill would help to prevent deliberately misleading mailers and phone calls in the run-up to an election, which Schumer called part of “a larger strategy to keep certain voters away from the polls.”

    If it becomes law, individuals found to have deliberately misled voters would face a prison term of up to five years. State attorneys general would also be empowered to quickly respond with accurate information in cases where populations have been targeted with misleading claims. It would also amend the Voting Rights Act of 1965 to prohibit paying people to stay home on election day.

    Speaking before the Senate Judiciary Committee on Tuesday, Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-IA) set up Republican opposition by claiming the bill would infringe upon free speech rights. He added that it could create a system where allegations of dirty tricks days before an election force campaigns to spend money on lawyers instead of voter outreach.

    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/201…

    1. Put up a bill that cracks down on a known practice of election fraud and Republicans come out against it.

      “Free speech” my ass.  There is nothing defensible on a free speech basis about preventing someone from voting.  And if someone posts something with the wrong election date on it, then some legal expenses are to be expected regardless.  Grassley is full of it.

  7. ….The House is teasing a Contempt of Congress vote tomorrow against the Attorney General in the likely event that SCOTUS upholds the Affordable Care Act.

    Need to have that faux outrage on Faux News to divert attention, y’know. Too bad this vote is because the GOP is the NRA’s bitch:


    Why NRA wants Congress to vote Attorney General Eric Holder in contempt

    When the House votes Thursday whether to hold Attorney General Eric Holder in contempt, members will have to weigh whether the circumstances of the long-running “Fast and Furious” scandal warrant putting the nation’s top legal official in contempt for the first time in US history.

    They’re also going to weigh the opinion of the National Rifle Association, which is going to put the vote on its annual scorecard.

    Wait, the NRA is going to hold lawmakers’ feet to the fire on a contempt of Congress vote? What gives?

    Running underneath the to-and-fro allegations over Operation Fast and Furious – which began in 2009 when federal agents allowed guns to “walk” into Mexico in order to trace where they ended up and that came to a head when guns from the scheme were linked to the death of an American border agent – is an entirely different discussion: American gun rights.

    http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/D…

    (Note notorious and unbiased news website as source.)

    Serious stuff, if it had a shred of truth to it.



    The truth about the Fast and Furious scandal

    A Fortune investigation reveals that the ATF never intentionally allowed guns to fall into the hands of Mexican drug cartels. How the world came to believe just the opposite is a tale of rivalry, murder, and political bloodlust.

    http://features.blogs.fortune….

    (Note commie-pinko Liberal left-wing publication as source.)

    MONEY QUOTE:

    Indeed, a six-month Fortune investigation reveals that the public case alleging that Voth and his colleagues walked guns is replete with distortions, errors, partial truths, and even some outright lies. Fortune reviewed more than 2,000 pages of confidential ATF documents and interviewed 39 people, including seven law-enforcement agents with direct knowledge of the case.

    1. Issa is about to endure a GENUINE shit storm. Couldn’t happen to a more deserving prick. A story in the national Review just dumped on him and said he should be ashamed of himself.

      The tracks are starting to come off of the great republican Mendacity Machine.

        1. entitled to our wildest dreams. The woman who appeared on Rachels’ show was pretty impressive in the breadth of knowledge she has on the subject.

          As I remember her comments, she said that the story Issa and Co. are pursuing is exactly opposite from the truth. I would love to see that bastard taken down.

          Fingers crossed…

  8. Mark Harden

    New Media Editor- Denver Business Journal

    Colorado has placed two cities in the top five of Forbes’ latest ranking of America’s “best places for business and careers,” published Wednesday.

    The 14th annual list places Fort Collins at No. 3 and Denver at No. 5.

    Now, I know this must be a big fat lie – since our taxes are way too high, and even in Colorado Denver taxes are the highest.

    Who would have thought  that Forbes and the DBJ would fall for the liberal media bull.  

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