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November 09, 2012 04:33 PM UTC

Open Line Friday!

  • 83 Comments
  • by: Colorado Pols

“At some point, we should do a Spanish translation of this program.”

–Rush Limbaugh, yesterday

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83 thoughts on “Open Line Friday!”

    1. I’ll give him credit for acknowledging Obama’s victory starting about a week before Election Day.* Compared to the truly shocked reactions by most of the web’s hard right denizens, he had his eyes wide open.

      A-BOT, of course, has disappeared now that the election is over – just like every other paid campaign shill in the history of Pols. His last post came last Friday – he quit a little early compared. Or, as we liked to joke, he was laid off. (I speculated that the campaign knew that they were headed for a loss, but the evidence now strongly suggests that they really did not.)

      We will never hear from A-BOT again. At least, not under that name. Tad will be back, though. As much as I can’t stand him or his nonsense, I have to admit that I respect his never-say-die attitude. Every other troll (Liberalism is a Sickness, GOPwarrior, etc) eventually gave up. But tad has been here for years. He’s like the one hard right troll on the shelf with the duracell batteries.

      * Tad said he had been predicting Obama’s victory for “months,” but I sure don’t remember him ever saying so any earlier than last week. It doesn’t matter – he’s a fricking soothsayer compared to his brethren for acknowledging reality that far ahead of his compatriots.

      1. He did agree that Obama would win for many weeks, if not months.  Well before last week, however.

        A stroll down memory lane, Liberalism is a sicknes (And a winning trend!), GOP Warrior.

        1. I generally skip his rants unless he’s losing it, in which case one can be entertained if not informed.

          Well, no one can say that he doesn’t march to his own beat. (It’s a beat so schizoid that a free jazz improviser couldn’t follow it, but at least it’s his own.)

            1. Obama comes to tears while thanking his campaign staff the next day:

              From David Ferguson, Raw Story:

              Mitt cancels staff campaign credit cards at midnight:

              Staffers working for the Romney 2012 campaign got a sudden and unwelcome lesson in fiscal conservatism Tuesday night and Wednesday morning when they tried to check out of hotel rooms or travel home. According to NBC’s “First Read” blog, campaign workers were left to pull themselves up by their bootstraps when they found that all the credit cards issued by Romney/Ryan 2012 were canceled as soon as the nominee finished his concession speech.

              I think we chose correctly.

      2. an ass wart also has a never-say-die attitude but you sure don’t miss it when it’s removed.  The KKK has been around for years and they run on more than copper-tops so do they hold a special place in your heart?

        ‘turd serves no purpose here.  His misogyny, his race-baiting posts (silverback rant), his spewing of farcical disproved blatant lies are acceptable — hell, now desired?

        Are you experiencing such withdrawal that you now crave the venal venom that poisons discourse?  WTF has ‘turd posted in the last 3mos that gave you pause, caused you to think it through, and brought you to any sort of realization that he may be right?  Identify one of those posts for me.  

        I found his over-the-top loathesome threadjacking and his daily need to be villified, denigrated, and demeaned signs of a troubled idiot.  You miss having anyone to counter your ideas and thoughts and values for the sake of a good discussion or even better argument, but did ‘turd really & truly bring out the best?

      4. I always scrolled through those posts and found it amusing when Polsters responded to the fool.

        Good to recite the history of previous GOP shills who disappear after elections.  We can add this election to the pile.

    2. Why would the election stop me from visiting CPols?

      I did not support Romany or the Republicans nor did I support Obuma and the Lemcrats.

      Libertarians are a Republican/Democrat Hybrid. We take the best of both parties and meld them into 1 reasonable platform. We isolate the negative human characteristics institutionalized in the 2 major parties and flush them down the drain.

       Libertarians are not Republicans or Democrats.

      Besides, if voting changed anything, they would not let us do it…

      2. they are the laziest candidates on the ballot.  They do nothing to earn votes, and are proud of the 2 to 4 percent of the vote they get just through having the Libertarian label.  Find me a Libertarian candidate who will talk about their views, and WORK for votes . . .

        1. Including televised debates on local stations in past races (not 2012).

          What he refuses to do is fundraise. The filings are too much trouble for a candidate who is never going to round up above a few thousand bucks at the most. Libertarians need to band together in 2014 and run ONE candidate that the state party throws its resources, both human and financial, behind. If they don’t start doing things that way, they will always be no more than a “protest vote” party.

      4. Libertarians will never win the presidency, but as a party have had good ideas eventually accepted or adopted by the mainstream. Libertarians have for years urged an end to the war on drugs and an end to marijuana prohibition, and that position is now accepted by a majority of the voters in Colorado. A position that was eventually adopted by the Colorado Democratic party and by a number of conservative Republicans.

        Libertarians have long advocated that “restorative justice” be instituted in reform of our criminal system. With a per capita incarceration rate far exceeding any other country in the world, it’s time we have to start thinking “outside the box” and away from the dogma that far too often is institutionalized in a two party system.

        The war on drugs is a waste of resources as is spending $38,000 a year to house a non-violent criminal.

      5. Since you’ve prompted a real discussion for once, I’m going to join in with my own thoughts.

        Libertarians are a Republican/Democrat Hybrid. We take the best of both parties and meld them into 1 reasonable platform. We isolate the negative human characteristics institutionalized in the 2 major parties and flush them down the drain.

        I’m aware of certain anti-government types on the far left, who are probably the ones you refer to here. They are generally as cynical/paranoid about what government does as right wing libertarians do, and want much less of it.

        The thing is, the things that make these people left wing rather than right are the things that make such a reconciliation impossible. Yes, both kinds agree that government is intrusive of people’s privacy. Both agree that there ought not be such a thing as victimless crimes. They both believe in reducing the military and not going on non-defensive adventures like Iraq. Both believe that government conspires against its citizens to keep them ignorant.

        But… right wing libertarians, like “libertarian Republicans,” believe in the absolute unfettered free market, which few on the hard left advocate. They share the same blame-the-victim attitudes as conservatives where poverty and prejudice are concerned. They love guns.

        Left libertarians are really Anarchists. They want a collective sort of society. Right libertarians want a individualistic one. Their basic motivation for their positions are at loggerheads. I can’t see any party succeeding when their intellectual foundations are 180Вє apart.

        1. Democratic component in the Libertarians of today who are basically another iteration of far right conservative Republicans with the exception that some of them believe in a few personal liberties rejected by the social conservatives. That doesn’t make them Republican/Democratic hybrids.  

          The fact that this comes from Nockworst is another indication that he’s just a ditto head far right Republican in disguise. I doubt a real Libertarian would describe Libertarianism in those terms.

          1. I think Nock was just dreaming of building a coalition with lefties who are just as distrustful of the government, which is actually a common appeal from Libertarians. Fringe types often look for ways to find common ground with other fringe types, but it never works out. They’re idealists of the worst sort, so as soon as the idea of setting some goal aside for another common aim comes up, the arguments and Grand Canyon-sized chasm between the two reveals itself.

            People who end up on the fringes of politics are those who can’t get along with others who don’t agree with them 100%.

            1. Sounds like the folks in charge of the GOP, doesn’t it?  We now have a two party system in which one whole party pretty much is on the fringe. No wonder we can’t get the simplest things accomplished without teetering on the edge of a cliff every 15 minutes.

      1. The movement back to Obama in the late stages of the race was indicative of the general population shift.  Colorado lead the rebound for Barack Obama.

      4. Trending bluer shade of purple is more like it. Look at 2010. If it hadn’t been for severe wackodoodelism on the part of GOP primary voters then, we’d have a Republican Governor and Senator right now to go along with our Republican SOS, AG and Treasurer. Still have a GOP majority in our US House delegation.  

          1. and many of our hunting and fishing crowd do have an interest in green stuff like preserving ecosystems, not poisoning fish, etc. Lefties ought to spend less time antagonizing them over the whole Bambi killing thing (nothing more annoying than vegans showing up for Thanksgiving) and more time recruiting them on common ground issues.  

            And of course, here in Colorado, plenty of Dems also hunt and fish and are fond of their guns.  We’re a pretty interesting, stereotype busting bunch in these parts, a bit ahead of the curve but emblematic of the increasingly complex country we’re part of.

            Unlike O’Really, I think a multicultural America is a natural result, not a rejection, of “traditional” America. E pluribus unum, the more the merrier, smarter and more open to enriching, expanding experiences.  

            1. Especially: “Teal’s pretty”

              Except, teal is so yesterday. (My kitchen is tomato, my dining room periwinkle.)

              And think about it: Colorado is so yesterday. Hunting, fishing, hard scrabble and cow punchin’, Mexican and French and Polish and Italian and Irish and black and Chinese and Japanese and German and… occupiers. (Have you ever driven from Trinidad up the “PicketWire” River to La Veta through all those nationally diverse coal towns? Not to mention a pensive stop at Ludlow on the way. Opens your heart and warms your eyes.)  

              Do you love our state, or what?

              And yet we’re so tomorrow: Hunting, fishing, hard scrabble and cow punchin’, silicon chip techies from Colfax to Longmont, cleaner energy from Pueblo to the fireworks stand this side of Cheyenne, a decommissioned nuclear power plant at Platte Ville, a swords-to-plowshares village at former Lowery AFB, vineyards at the foot of Mt. Garfield, and those wonderful Mexican, French, Polish and…(Did I mention Canadian?) occupiers of today.

              God, I love our state.

              And, yet again, we’re so today: Iron petroleum horsies bobbing up and down in the formerly serene grey-hummocked Colorado River Valley from Glenwood Springs to Colbran; the sprawling pseudo-Swiss metropolis in the Vail River Valley where once stood the most beautiful red-barn, white fence ranch in Colorado; the 108-car coal trains temporizing lives in Trinidad, at Santa Fe Drive and the length of the Front Range; the emerald golf course “villages” swamping the San Miguel Valley from the home station of the Galloping Goose to damn near Coal Bank Hill. (And did I mention the acres of world-renowned peach orchards converted to Mesa County-class vineyards at the foot of Mt. Garfield?)

              We’ve got a wonderful state, and we’re ahead of the curve. And we deserve better.

              Maybe turquoise?

  4. Breaking the no-links-to-the-Toast rule for good reason: Republicans call on their party to “Improve or Die.”

    Penry could have won the Governorship for the Republicans in 2010, had they selected and supported him as their candidate instead of the doomed plagiarist McInnis. Witwer is himself an intelligent and successful Republican–one of the ones I’m talking about when I say “I miss the Western Republicans of my childhood”–and comes from a respected Republican family in Colorado.

    If they say it and the GOP (at least in this state) still fails to listen, there is absolutely no hope for the party and conservatives who care should start nominating and donating to independent candidates like Tisha Casida immediately, lest there be races within 6-10 years with no viable conservative candidates at all.

    1. No matter who the GOP could come up with, the Dems still had Hickenlooper. Also, Penry is pretty hard right. Not Kevin Lundberg nutty, but I can’t see purple Colorado going for someone like that.

      1. I’m no fan of Hick’s (I had a flirtation with supporting him when he called special session earlier this year, but he lost me again when the alcohol merchant came out as opposed to possession of mild intoxicants) so I may not be the best person to assess his chances. However, I think he’s overhyped as a candidate for anything above Denver Mayor. He was a good Mayor. He’s an okay Governor. But I think in a Republican wave year, even his moderate appeal and Republican support would not have made an easy path to victory if a viable Republican had run. Penry is only hard-right to those of us who remember a time before Republicans ate their own for offenses like acknowledging quietly that homosexuals may be human beings.

        1. That’s an unusual thing to say about someone who has succeeded as a candidate for something well above Denver Mayor. You might be tempted to credit that to the the GOP’s gubernatorial implosion, but the fact is that Hickenlooper is this state’s most popular political figure in my lifetime, and he currently enjoys 60% approval rating almost two years in.

          I’m not a big fan of him since he became governor, myself. The pot thing is weird, and he’s too pro-drilling and fracking for my taste.

          But… he is popular, and there’s little objective reason to believe Penry, hard right as he is, could have overcome that.

          1. You may be right. I think he’s benefited from extraordinary circumstances and can’t expect that run of luck forever. The Republicans handed him the election and handed him a first two years with a House so batshit that he couldn’t be expected to accomplish much, and that gave him a chance to look the hero by cracking the whip at the end of session.

            1. and regardless of whether they ran a high quality campaign or not, then yes, you’re biased. Extraordinary circumstances helped, but there’s very little anyone can do against a popular politician with a broad base of appeal. You don’t have to like the man, but you need to be able to see that when judging his prospects.

                  1. CO voters like incumbent Governors unless they mess up, big-time.

                    His high approval rating, IMO, reflects the ease with which he coasted to office–the lack of support for his opponent meant nobody was investing in attacking the Hick–and the fact that he could have slept for a solid two years and still come off as the adult in the room, with the House acting like lunatics on the strength of a one-seat majority. Hickenlooper has never really been challenged by an opponent well-resourced enough to go negative.

                    We’ll see what happens in a two-year period when Hickenlooper can reasonably be expected to accomplish a great deal. He’s now working with significant majorities in both houses of the legislature. He should be able to make dramatic, positive changes. However, he’s also challenged with implementing the will of the voters vis-a-vis Amendment 64, which he opposed. He’s tepidly said he’ll try to do so (with a mocking comment about Cheetos and goldfish) but will he actually make it work? Then there’s health care — we’ve got a good start on the exchanges, but how smoothly will the transition go? Longmont voters also deviated from Hickenlooper on his beloved fracking industry. If he doesn’t take that hint, that, too, could become a problem.

                    It’s possible that Hickenlooper will get the message that voters returned Democrats to office and voted for largely progressive initiatives. Colorado clearly wants to be led by Democrats. Hick is a DINO, and he can add “saur” to that if he stays in the world of 2010 for the next two years and sits around cutting budgets and kissing energy-industry ass.

                    1. He did have the big wildfires to contend with.

                      That said, I would agree that he hasn’t exactly gone around fighting major battles and achieving great things.

                      Hmm. Maybe his IS coasting a bit.

                      Even so, he did run on the platform of cutting budgets, at least. People can’t reasonably say that they thought he was progressive. Although his 78% approval among Democrats suggests that not very few would share your opinion about him being a DINO.

              2. that in a year like 2010 a purely hypothetical smart GOP, completely unlike the one we had then and now, could have beat Hick with a candidate within shouting distance of the center. The outgoing Dem Gov was very unpopular and it was a Republican momentum year in general.  In real life such a candidate wouldn’t have gotten anywhere near a nomination so… you’re right.  

        2. I never understood the “up and coming,” “future of the Republican party” fascination with Penry, even when he was working his way up the political ladder. He was always arrogant and self-inflated. He seemed to have this reputation as a policy wonk/strategist/intellectual leader, but I could never see any proof of that. He seemed to be mostly concerned with himself. I don’t think he was ever a threat to Hickenlooper.

          As for Hick, we need not just more Democrats but better Democrats, and he is an example.

    2. someone who advocates abolishing the federal reserve ?  It is that type of Bachmann nonsense that got them here in the first place.  People like that are not fit to govern.

      1. I wouldn’t vote for her, as I’ve always said.

        But she should be learning from this campaign and realizing that she can keep the support of the Libertarian-leaning fringe while picking up plenty of disillusioned GOPers. She has the campaign skills and the work ethic. Anyone writing her off after her first campaign, in which she knew darn well she had to be the Tea Party darling to petition onto the ballot successfully, is a fool.

          1. I have gotten to know Tisha casually through the election season, and it is remarkable how effectively she connects with her supporters without the financial resources that even the most no-chance, ballot-filler D or R candidate has. Yes, her ideas are absolutely nuts. But you can’t ignore that someone her age petitioned her way into a congressional race on the strength of nothing but moxie–and in a poll of K-12 Mesa County students (who of course, couldn’t actually vote but will someday) she won over both Pace and Tipton. Not to mention the national media coverage of her campaign.

            We have no idea how many people currently serving in the legislature would come across as loons if they weren’t managed with care by a party. Probably at least half of the Republican delegation (the other half look like loons anyway, despite their management).  I maintain that with this experience under her belt and some time to grow, Tisha could become, if not a winning candidate, one legitimate enough to throw a race decisively. She needs policy instruction desperately–right now she comes across as a little girl blindly repeating things her wingnut parents repeated from talk radio–but I think we’ll see more from her if she can be managed and trained.

            I’ve heard a rumor that she first intended to run as a Libertarian and was rebuffed because the party was thinking of another candidate for the race. Sounds like she’s at least willing to play with a party, if not a major one. Libertarians in general need to get their shit about 200% more together, but the current state party chair is a sight better than anything they’ve ever had. (Still would make at best a low end of mediocre county chair in a major party, though.)

            There are numerous ifs, but there is a path here:

            IF the GOP continues to blindly flounder around pandering only to white Christian males who are either wealthy or think they would be without those damn taxes…

            IF voters continue to notice this, but at least some of them aren’t ready to entirely subscribe to progressive fiscal policy…

            IF a third party or an organized group of independents can organize and fundraise effectively…

            IF they have a candidate with Tisha’s charisma…

            IF that candidate allows him/herself to be managed and handled and taught something about actual public policy…

            and IF that all happens in multiple races in multiple states…

            The GOP becomes a third party and/or extincts itself, and candidates more in the Libertarian mold (but a more evolved model, as will become rapidly necessary if they start realizing they have a few opportunities to win) take over as the other choice for voters who don’t like the Democratic Party.

            Like Penry and Witwer said, it’s happened before. There is nothing inevitable about the Republican Party. How many Whigs were on your ballot this year?

            1. See: Hickenlooper, John for example.

              But there has to be a sense that their principles and beliefs are within striking distance of a majority of voters as well. Again, see: Hickenlooper, John.

              While handlers might give Tisha the “words” to blend into whatever base she wants to appeal to, I would prefer that they were her true beliefs which also align with a majority of voters.

              Had enough of ‘etch-a-sketch’ candidates.  But her youth and enthusiasm is great.  Just hope maturity and wisdom come as naturally for her some day.

    3. This is basically saying that conservatism is still appealing to mainstream voters, which is code that liberalism is not.

      The GOP can listen to that message all they want. It won’t win them any elections, though. The GOP held sway over this country from Reagan through Bush II. Even when Dems were in control, GOP-championed issues dominated the discourse. They wouldn’t have been able to shut down Clinton’s health care reform efforts during the only two years that Dems held the House, Senate and White House over that 28 year period.

      But the pendulum has swung back. Traditional Democratic issues are back in the fore – stimulating the economy, social equality, marijuana decriminalization. The GOP isn’t going to win on the conservative, small-government, cut taxes message for many years. And just saying “Let’s stop alienating gays, minorities and women” isn’t going to win them back just like that. Maybe actually championing their causes will, but I’ll only believe they’re doing that when I see it.

    1. I absolutely will not allow you to associate me with Akin….his remarks and those of Mourdock showed an absolute contempt for women.  I do not now, nor have I ever, supported such crap, or anyone who would.  We taught our little boys from the time they could roughhouse that “NO, means STOP.”

      For the record, there is a fight that you missed and that was the legislation, sponsored by Republicans, including long-time advocate for rape victims, Representative Poe of Texas, to give Peace Corps Volunteers state of the art

      treatment and support if they were victims of sexual assault and also tools to help them prevent such crimes.

      I joined a coalition to support that legislation and, god damm, we were successful.  

      Now, last Spring or so, way before Akin and Mourdock, and the silence from Republicans, I did say that the Republicans had no intention of getting rid of abortion and if Roe were overturned, the issue would go to the states. I stand by that analysis.

      I also argued that I did not think that the focus on women’s reproductive rights to the inclusion of women’s economic concerns, was a winning strategy.

      I have already noted that I was wrong on  this..

      You can post any comment you want, but do not associate me with it.  

        1. Perhaps, you might want to consider talking to someone, professionally. Your anger at me is displaced and all out of proportion.  I am not sure what the source of the anger is.  Doctors burn out; perhaps that is what is happening to you.

          My fears all along have been of a Republican Senate.

          I am glad that the Democrats are in control.  I don’t think it was because of Akin.  I do think that he is the reason that McClassen (sp) won in Missouri.

          1. Actually, we did win this election because of the Akins and the Mourdocks and the entire agenda which they represent and which is, in fact, not their fringe agenda but the agenda of the entire GOP, including the presidential ticket. The majority rejected it.  It even hurt not quite so Akin like candidates such as Brown in Mass. The majority did not buy what your righty spinners were arguing and the righty billionaires were spending their hundreds of millions selling. Resistance wasn’t, as you so often insisted, futile.

            Daft isn’t one to mince words and you really were extremely annoying throughout the entire election season. You did quite regularly get up on your high horse and call us all naive, lazy, clueless, blind cheerleaders, no matter how cogently we presented our cautiously optimistic views (which were wrong only in being too cautious), and that does tend to tick people off.  

            You might be the one to consider some kind of de-tox after your extended sojourn in righty talk radio land. Come out into the sunshine. Don’t be afraid. Rush Limbaugh does not rule the world.  

          2. It’s your idiocy that earns you my scorn.

            I don’t pretend to psychoanalyze people’s mental status over the internet, and I’d wager I’m a damn sight more qualified to do so than you are.

            Take a look in the mirror (or better yet your idiotic posts I’ve responded to.)  You are wrong all the time, and keep telling us what fools we all are.  Furthermore you told me you don’t think doctors with opinions should be posting on political blogs, without making the least bit of a case as to why that should be so.

            I’m burnt out on reading your stupid shit.  Keep your opinions about my personal life to yourself, fucking dimwit.

              1. dwyer is not famous for self-restraint, but that time, at least, she let it speak volumes.

                Come on, Daft Punk, if you like beating up on senior citizens, try me.   I’ve been hammered by experts and sort of enjoy it.

                   But really, at your best, you are much better than you showed in your jihad against dwyer.

  7. this morning, we’ve only got four more years ’til the next big dance . . .

    If Florida starts counting those 2016 votes now, maybe they will have enough time to issue results next election night?

    1. to try to get out of whatever his role was in the Benghazi mess. The CIA is going to be facing a lot of questions. I don’t think he’ll be excused from answering because he needs to spend more time with his family.    

      1. Wasn’t available to tell the White House about requests for additional security because he was busy with his mistress.

        Only time I can recall agreeing that someone should be terminated from a political job just for having an affair… if you manage the entire country’s spying operations and get caught sleeping around, that’s probably a bad thing.

        “How’d you get caught, David?”

        “Couldn’t keep my cover story straight.”

        “What’s your job again?”

        “I manage clandestine agents.”

  9. I will be honest that I was so worried about this election that I think I was in shock the last two days.  I am so addicted to the political coverage so when we actually won it was like going through withdrawal. Today was the first day I woke up completely happy knowing that we accomplished what we set out to do!

    We continue to make this a better World. Change takes time and effort but it is worth it. The republicans have made themselves dinosaurs due to their social stances and demographics moving more and more to Our side.  They are cooked unless they change. I see the politics in this country eventually being like the UK where the Conservative party is left of Obama. I can not wait!    

    Best to all.

    I will miss ArapaGOP

  10. I had a brief hope for the GOP yesterday. Those hopes are fading fast with the rapid rise of the rabid right’s rapturous ramblings today.

    From Ann Coulter’s call for prosecuting Obama for (something), to the continued belief that Obama somehow rigged the election, to the new conspiracy theories about Petraeus, it looks like Republicans are largely digging in their heels against reality.

    1. I’m pretty sure anger and denial are the first two, without necessarily having a hard line separating them.

      It’s too soon to tell how this will all shake out. But I wouldn’t expect the professional rabble rousers to be chastened and change their tune.

      The main thing is, How will this affect the cons who live in the right wing media bubble? The one thing I worry about is these people being incited to violence. No, nobody is specifically calling for any such thing (except Donald Trump, who is single A to big leaguers like Limbaugh on this front), but I’ve already written about how the ignorance of Germans during WWI led them to easily believe that they had been “stabbed in the back” by the republicans, fatally weakening the Weimar Republic from the day it was founded. These people seem just as easily fooled and manipulated.

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