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November 17, 2023 01:30 PM UTC
24 Comments
The Colorado legislature kicked off its special session this morning, with lawmakers working to craft a plan to deal with rising property taxes after 
Attempting to disrupt important work at the State Capitol in order to demonstrate support for Palestinians is sort of like going to a Denver Broncos game to cheer on the Colorado Rockies; it’s a nice idea, but it’s not accomplishing much. We suppose it makes slightly more sense to march and chant outside of the State Capitol than it does to
This is like protesting the Boy Scouts when you're mad at the police.
Isn’t all protest performative?
Isn't all politics performative?
Akin to Godwin's Law, I think it's time we name a law in honor of the Bride of Beetlejuice? Almost any idiotic, moronic, performative act can be comparative to her movie house stunt (and any other time she opens her mouth).
Exhibit A:
"None of the people inside the State Capitol, of course, have anything to do with the conflict in Gaza — on either side."
That is so true and also so irrelevant. People simply like to make noise and to demand accountability, especially from those who have nothing to do with a particular issue.
That is why candidates are constantly asked their positions on issues such as marriage equality or reproductive choice even when the issue has nothing to do with a particular political race. Do the local dog catcher candidates have to have well-thought-out positions on abortion? (Spaying and neutering animals for sure but not necessarily human reproductive choice.)
And I appreciate that both Mayor Gavin Newsom and County Clerk Kim Davis tried to make marriage equality a local issue albeit from diametrically different perspectives but neither was successful in doing so.
Not everything is a federal or international cause.
I get it, however I’m curious where a better location would be for a local demonstration about a significant political issue, if not the State House?
Assuming the goal is to draw attention/get coverage. State Reps have no direct power over this, but they do have influence. And they could do things like introduce/pass a resolution, block state procurement etc. (if this was an issue they were inclined to address).
Martin, protestors could hold their protests outside of the Capitol to raise public awareness and get the notice of state lawmakers.
They could reach out to individual lawmakers and ask them to reach out to federal congressional members, ask them to sign on to letters asking our federal government to do something.
Passing a resolution accomplishes nothing but wasting the very limited time legislators already have to do work that directly impacts Coloradoans. So, you need to let that go.
"ask them to sign on to letters asking our federal government to do something"
Why not make noise in front of the offices of DeGette, Bennet and Hickenlooper?
Southwest, I'm sure you know this, but just wanted to add that it would almost certainly be super-tough to draft a resolution that would bring about legislative consensus in the first place. There are different legislators with extremely different deeply held convictions when it comes to this specific geopolitical issue.
Lauren B, Martin was looking for ways to involve state legislators. Of course they could also go directly to the officials of our congressional members as well.
People protested Trump’s travel ban at DIA and you didn’t seem to see any issue with that. Are DIA officials somehow endowed with special immigration authority?
Let me say first off that I distrust all Socialist parties. They’re all opportunistic folks who liketo jump out in front of grassroots causes, take pictures, take credit, and use these movements for party building purposes. In this, they are little different than the two major parties. So Denver Socialist Alliance, Young Socialists of America, etc…they’re all related to the major Trotskyist parties. I had my fill of these liars when I was a very young activist in the anti-war and women’s movements.
If these people wanted to make a real political statement , they should have demonstrated in front of the Israeli embassy. Of course, then they would have been accused of anti-semitism, which is bad for party building.
The problem is that so many of us see the tiny white shrouds and battered bodies of the Palestinian children who are the main victims these days in this war, and we want to do something. Writing to Congress and pressuring for a cease fire seems so inadequate, but it’s all that’s possible, seemingly.
2Jung, which is why I said a resolution would accomplish nothing, I guess should have been more specific and said it would be a waste of time.
History needs to be shared about WHY Israel doesn’t trust radical palestinian baseline focus on Zionism and the Jewish people at the beginning of the 3rd Reich. USA wasn’t much better but not this egregious when Palestinan leaders could save 20,000 Jewish oppressed by Nazi Germany, of which were 5000 children.
“Smuggled photographs of documents from Nazi Germany prior to World War II offer insight into a secret alliance between Nazi agents and Palestinian leaders. These German documents, photographed by an American spy in 1937 and sent to British intelligence, are now housed in the British National Archives in London. The documents show, among other things, that the Nazis attempted to send a shipment of arms “via Turkey and addressed to Ibn Saud, but really intended for the Palestinian insurgents.”
According to British documents and photographed Nazi records, several Nazi agents were sent to Mandatory Palestine to meet with Palestinian leaders, and influence them into rejecting a proposed partition plan which would divide the Jewish and Arab populations. Adam Vollhardt, a Nazi agent, was sent to Palestine in July 1938, and held several meetings with Arab leaders. He told Palestinian leaders that “Germany was interested in the settlement of the question on the basis of the Arabs obtaining their full demands,” and the “Germans could continue to support the Palestinian Arab cause by means of propaganda.”
Germany believed that Palestine under Arab control would be one of the few countries that would give “strong sympathy” to the new Germany under Nazi rule. A report from German General Consulate in Palestine in 1937 stated, “The formation of a Jewish state…is not in Germany’s interest because a (Jewish) Palestinian state would create additional national power bases for international Jewry such as for example the Vatican State political Catholicism or Moscow for the Communists.” The Nazis attempted to boost the power of Palestinian leaders in order to counter Jewish national aspirations for a state in Palestine.
In 1937, a Nazi official wrote a letter from Palestine to Berlin which said that Palestinian Arabs showed “a great sympathy for new Germany and its Fuhrer…based on a purely ideological foundation.” Another agent, Dr. Franz Reichart was working in conjunction with Palestinians “to help coordinate Arab and German propaganda.”
The documents also show that due to increased Nazi-Arab alliances, the British government cancelled a plan in 1938 to bring 20,000 German Jewish refugees to Palestine so it would not upset Arab opinion. A British Foreign Office report said that when British representatives in Arab countries were asked if Arab governments would support a proposal to bring 5,000 Jewish children to Palestine for adoption, they said the reaction would be so strongly negative that the Arabs would probably refuse to even send delegates to London to discuss such a proposal. Lord Chatfield, Minister for Coordination of Defence, was quoted as saying, “If war were to break out, no trouble that the Jews could occasion us…could weigh for the a moment against the importance of winning Muslim opinion to our side.” Therefore, 20,000 Jewish refugees, many of them children, were abandoned and left in Nazi Germany to face the horrors of the Holocaust.
Ynetnews ”
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/nazi-agents-infiltrated-mandatory-palestine-prior-to-world-war-ii
Dang! Better kill all the Palestinian kids then, huh?
Not at all Joe, just giving some more recent historical context to the issues there than the bible. There’s NOTHING Holy about the holy land.
Hamas embedded its military wing in Gaza since taking over Gaza in 2007. When you build an underground connected military system under civilians, in and around hospitals, schools, mosques, then attack Israel in areas that are not contested containing kibbutz since the foundation of modern day Israel, reasonable observers would realize that the palestinians are BY DESIGN being used as shields will be collateral damage. West Bank a completely different story.
Its a fucking war. Innocents die in war, especially if you decide to fight Israel from normally protected no fire zone positions. Germans did it at end of WWII to their own citizenry. Not much complaining then of the oppressed German citizenry dominated and mistreated by the Nazi party, right?
Its sad that 0.5% of those reading and writing here served in combat and most in mideast.
That means most of those here have no clue how you fight to win. It’s not a video game and innocents die. Its not just a news story either.
I am not rejoicing in war or death but having actually fought the Iranians before many here were born I can say Americans are ignorant of reality.
Jimmy Carter gave us carte blanche killing Iranian military. Reagan used Saddam Hussein to do it and I fought for both in 1980 and 1981. Reagan and former Texas Governor John Connally made sure I went back for another 6 months of killing in 1981. Do I cry about it? No. It almost cost me my life and it did end a career from combat injuries I deal with today.
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2023/03/did-reagan-teams-iran-hostage-sabotage-defeat-jimmy-carter.html
Palestinians are a good example of a partially defeated enemy who want you dead at any cost. Reality of warfare. Another poster shared that NO ONE in the Arab world wants to help the them and its true.
Palestinians must learn to work with the majority of Israel, democratic Zionists. There is no other way except death and destruction.
My take after fighting in mideast 43 years ago.
Those clamoring for a bilateral ceasefire sound like the bystanders telling the rapist and the rape victim to get off each other.
Yes if the rape victim got up and started killing everyone in the rapist's homeland.
I've yet to hear of a reported rape case where your scenario actually occurred but that's the nice thing about hypotheticals. They're hypothetical.
What responsibility do the parents of those dead and dying Palestinian children bear for: (a) inviting or permitting the Hamas terrorists to operate out of Gaza, and (b) leaving their children in harm's way.
But cheer up. Biden will pay for his "failure" to save Gaza. Rashida Tlaib has served notice that her community in Michigan will see to it that Biden loses Michigan electoral votes. And that way, two things will happen: (1) the Democratic candidates in 2028 will need to pander to Arab voters in Michigan, and (2) President Trump will have the opportunity to fix the situation in Gaza in 2025. Given his ties to MBS and his hatred of Iran, maybe he will have more success.
Pretty sure you brought up the rape analogy, although it probably fits better if you consider that Palestinians are the ones being raped. It's telling that you continue in that vein with some good old fashioned "look what you made me do to you" victim blaming.
You're probably one of those people who wring their hands over Truman's decision to drop the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
Yes, it's nice to feel sympathy for those who are caught in crossfire but that doesn't mean ignoring those who were the instigators.
Yes, I suppose the deaths of 200k people does cause me to "wring my hands". I suppose this conversation has run its course.
How are Palestinians being "raped?" The Palestinians were a convenient political tool, for decades, by Arab governments that didn't want to take them in for resettlement. Those Arab governments also supported the PLO and similar organizations. It was Anwar Sadat who finally noted that the PLO and other radical Palestinians would fight to the death of the last Egyptian soldier to try and eliminate Israel.
Arab governments have generally pulled back from the Palestinian cause, finding that the enemy (Israel) of my enemy (Iran) can be my friend. The solution to your issues, Joe Burly, resides in Tehran and Qom.
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