Tuesday Open Thread

14 thoughts on “Tuesday Open Thread”

1. How about some lawsuits against Amendment 80 supporters. 

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   1. Please…do, go on…

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   2. There are 2 active campaign finance complaints against Colorado Dawn, the committee that probably paid for the A-80 text messages. Basically, they're about lack of disclosure on the texts and failing to file as an issue committee. I'm wondering what else lawsuits might accomplish. I think they probably misrepresented Hick and the CEA president by making it look like they supported A-80, and haven't seen any legal action or complaints on those fronts.

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      1. Voters told us they wanted fighters. These Amendment 80 supporters stole others identities, twisted their words, used their likeness without permission, they lied using someone elses good names. GET MAD!

         The electorate thinks we are weak and responding to this by saying “I’m wondering what else lawsuits might accomplish”. Gee wilikers wonder what else they can get away with. 

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         1. I wasn't clear enough. I was wondering specifically who should sue, on what grounds, and would there be a reasonable chance of success. I'm personally mad and spoke out on Pols about what Colorado Dawn was doing when the whole thing was actually going on, but "mad" doesn't always make going to court worth it. I'll still say if someone has a good legal case plus the capacity to spend time and money following a case through to a conclusion, by all means sue! I hope at least CEA does, I'd imagine Hick has bigger fish to fry.

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            1. Right.  Who has standing to sue?  What are the potential claims?  Defamation?  If so, it's a long shot and good luck proving damages.  Probably the best that happens is the administrative process plays out and the offending PAC gets fined.  

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               1. Send a picture of your wife saying she supports the murder of dolphins to all her work colleagues. Who could sue? It's such a mystery. 

                  The point isn't the lawsuit, the point is the fight. The point is discovery. The point is the press conference screaming righteous indignation.

                  Chicken shit liberal bs of hoping for a government fine that won't do anything just tells the electorate Democrats are weak.

                  Please don’t pretend to be dumb and make me have to list Kevin Vick…

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                  1. After 30+ years of litigation experience, including litigating campaign finance violation cases, I think I know a thing or two about the process.  But do go on.

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2. Hard Truths we Must Face

   Step 1 is seeing the world as it is, not as we want it to be

   If we don’t acknowledge & understand what happened, we can’t improve. We need to get out of our echo chamber. Here’s some of the major items we need to face:

   …

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   1. I've read your post a few times and I think we're on the same page, but with different words.

      Many of us need to not get out of our echo chambers as much as we need to start poking holes in the right-wing echo chamber. Hell, they started their own social media platforms and news organizations just to strengthen their echo chamber! You say that the majority of Trump's support was based on economy and immigration. I see that the majority of Trump's votes came from fear and ignorance, especially about the economy and immigration. I say this as someone who is also fairly ignorant about macro-economics and immigration policy.

      However we will be unable to poke holes in the right-wing echo chamber if they just see us calling all of them Racists and Sexists and Transphobes and all around assholes. We need to find ways to ally ourselves and the people who voted for Trump who are not those things and we won't be able to do that if they feel insulted and demeaned.

      It won't be easy to do, and it won't be for everyone to do, but it's the only way I can see for Americans to fight against hate. The alternative is that Conservatives and Liberals continue to be afraid and ignorant of each other until we dehumanize each other so much that we just start killing each other. I don't want that.

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3. Well, it appears Putin is giving Trump's choker chain a gentle tug, just so Trump knows who's the bigger bully.

   Dictator-elect Trump claims he warned Putin against ramping up the fighting in Ukraine: Trump talked to Putin, told Russian leader not to escalate in Ukraine

   But did he really? Did he even speak to Putin at all? As of this morning, the Kremlin is denying it: Kremlin spokesman claims Putin-Trump call did not occur:

   Why would Putin deny it? Well, to start with, the report that Trump mentioned our troops in Europe did not sit well with him:

   The phone call, or at least the announcement of the phone call, was on Thursday. On Friday, Russian TV posted nude photos of Melania. From Newsweek: Russian State TV Airs Melania Trump's Nudes on Prime Time

   I wonder if the golden shower videos will not be far behind?

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4. Josh Marshall rants at Polital Pundits' exaggerated claims.

   I think this post will displease or even enrage some readers.

   Democrats are not well-served by a meltdown, a spiral of demoralization that saps their energy to counter the Trump administration and bounce back in two and four years. Understanding what happened is important because it impacts the future. Distorting reality is just as damaging to our ability to formulate next steps when it’s done on the downside as it is when it’s done on the upside. It tells you what you focus on improving and where you decide to toss what you have and start from scratch. A political coalition that loses an election by one and a half points is by definition not smashed, moribund and in irremediable decline. All of these points can be summarized simply: You make the best decisions when you start from an accurate understanding of what happened. You don’t gain any psychic points or merit by exaggeration or falsehood. It may feel like that but it’s not the case.

   Here's the rant:

   But for many people the dire consequences of Trump’s election are distorting our understanding of just how he was elected. They’re not the same thing. And the difference matters. I see repeated headlines about how the Democratic party and its political coalition have been “shattered” or are now in “shambles”. I’m having an I hope friendly email exchange with one reader who told me this morning that he felt no one, including TPM, prepared him for Trump’s “overwhelming victory”. Analysis pieces in the big papers state as a given that it will take years or possibly decades of rebuilding for the party to recover.

   I really have no choice but to say that all of this is immense and innumerate bullshit. This isn’t even a subjective point. What we have is a bout of escalating competitive hyperbole in which the wild overstatements keeps getting ramped up because no one is willing to step up and state the obvious for fear of being shouted down as being in denial or naive or not recognizing the gravity of the crisis or whatever. Without anyone willing to push back the chorus just keeps moving to more and more over-the-top claims. A party with a bit more self-respect and spine would be less bowled over by claims from the opposition and a press in the habit of portraying Democrats in the most negative terms. But here we are.

   A few facts.

   Trump will likely end up winning the popular vote by between one and two percentage points. The margins in the Blue Wall states range from 2 percentage points in Pennsylvania to just under 1 percentage point in Wisconsin. Georgia 2.2; North Carolina 3.3; Nevada will likely be around 3 percentage points though they’re still counting. The one state that really wasn’t close was Arizona where Trump’s margin ended up being over 5 percentage points, though they’re still counting there as well.

   This is not an overwhelming victory by any estimation. It’s basically a mirror image of the one Joe Biden won four years ago. Slightly larger margins in all but one of the swing states and a significantly smaller margin in the national vote.

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   1. In Colorado, Trump "improved" to less of an electoral rout.  Comparing final numbers from 2020 to what the SoS site shows for 2024, Trump voters moved

      • from 41.9% of the 2020 vote to 43.15% of the 2024 vote,
      • from losing by 13.5% to losing by 11.1%.

       

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5. Just saw a post saying Habba-Dabba-Doo might be in the running for White House press secretary.

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