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September 10, 2013 06:01 PM UTC

Recall Election Night Open Thread

  • 98 Comments
  • by: Colorado Pols

UPDATE 10:35PM: Senator Angela Giron taking the stage to concede defeat to GOP opponent George Rivera. Trailing 56-44% with most precincts in.

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UPDATE 9:50PM: After a significant shift following ballots counted in conservative Pueblo West, Sen. Angela Giron now trailing 57-43%. Experts caution that many solidly Democratic areas of Senate District 3 not yet reporting.

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UPDATE 9:30PM: Senate President John Morse concedes defeat to Bernie Herpin.

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UPDATE 8:15PM: Another reminder for local and national media covering the results: the NRA and RMGO have already failed at two recall attempts earlier this summer. We'd hope that media coverage won't miss this important point, because the context of the overall recall effort is a critical piece of the story.

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UPDATE 7:50PM: In Senate District 3, very early numbers show Sen. Angela Giron winning with 69%.

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UPDATE 7:30PM: with 15% in, Yes to recall John Morse: 6751 52.18% No: 6186 47.82%.

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"Moral courage is a rarer commodity than bravery in battle or great intelligence."

–Robert F. Kennedy

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98 thoughts on “Recall Election Night Open Thread”

    1. That's a lot to make up, even with just 15% in. May as well face it. Morse, who won his seat narrowly, is out. Too bad but one out of four targeted is hardly going to attain the wacko rightie goal of paralyzing the rest of those who support sensible gun laws with terror.

    1. One more time, no guns were grabbed.

      Considering that, out of the 4 your side sought to recall, you couldn't even get enough signatures to have a recall election for two of them and then split on two with your single success being a term limited legislator who barely won his seat in his last election, it's hardly worthy of a whole lot of chest beating. Not really enough to strike terror into the hearts of all those who supported the new ,extremely moderate, reasonable gun laws. All but one of them are doing just fine, mainly without having to spend a nickle defending their seats.

      1. Whose gun got grabbed punk?  Name one?  Name one person who had their gun confiscated because of legislation passed by the Colorado legislature in 2013?

        Just one asshole.

        Just one.

        I bet you can't do it which makes you a moral coward.  Make big bad statements that you can't back up with facts.  Whee I live, people would call you a LIAR.

          2. Huge Tommy?  Don't you think that is stretching it.

            We probably won't ever know how many companies considering relocating will look favorably at Colorado because they see it as a safe place to live and work.  Who knows how many Life Merchants relocate to replace all the Death Merchants who depart for less regulation and unbridled violence.

          3. Hey Tommy,

            News Flash! Magpul STILL hasn't left. In fact, they don't even talk about leaving anymore. They're just playing you idiots for the fools you are, selling lots and lots of magazines in the process. 

    3. The senate will still be 19-16 so Democrats can pass any legislation they want without a single Republican so go masturbate with your guns all you want and sing "Sweet Baby Jesus" while you're stroking yourself into an orgasm of gun loving.

          2. Funny because it's true, or funny because losing sucks so much?

            Where are you onth eexpense and the philosophical validity of recalling an elected offical for votes with which a little over half (apparently) of the electorate disagree?  Seems like a really expensive and f'd up way to runa democratic republic. But I don't live or vote down there.

             

    4. Please explain to me how a background check grabs a gun from anybody? I just do not understand the rhetoric of the gun nuts of this world. Who needs to carry a magazine with more than 15 shells? The hunters I know would laugh someone out of camp if they showed up with that crap. Something must happen when you inhale too much gun smoke–it eliminates critical thinking skills.

      1. It's simple. Everybody who claims the new gun laws are instruments of gun grabbing is a liar. Everybody who claims the legislators who voted for these laws are gun grabbers is a liar. Our guns, and we are a gun owning family, are right where they always are. All the liars guns are too.  

        Oh, they'll say they're not liars because it's about what they say will or could or might happen but if you say  your guns are being taken away and they're not, you're a liar regardless of what you think might happen some day. Just like you're a liar when 80+% of the people of a state support universal background checks and you claim the legislators who passed enhanced background checks aren't listening to their constituents.  

        This is probably why the number of legislators whose constituents apparently don't feel they are being listened to is, count 'em, one.  As for the rest of the people of Colorado, they are still, by their own choice and through the legitimate electoral process, including recall attempts, represented by majorities in both the state house and senate who support sensible gun laws. 

        That's quite a lot of lying, even for the most compulsive liars, isn't it?

      1. And considering he didn't exactly breeze to a win in the regular election, the party probably wouldn't be beating down his door begging him to carry the standard in 2014 anyway.

        1. When you factor in the conservative "wave" in 2010 and the redistricting, it probably wouldn't be as bad for him. But if he is recalled, he should probably throw in the towel. There are already other Dem candidates lined up to run in 2014.

      2. The term limit laws say nothing about it. It seems like this sort of issue needs to be addressed before the 2014 election to eliminate obsurity in the law.

        Anyone know if it would have to be a ballot measure or could the General Assembly do something?

      1. I agree. The gun laws are still laws of the land. Blows Morse is going to lose, but he's termed out anyways. We'll get another democrat back in the seat in 2014.

        1. I was surprised by the district breakout I saw earlier today for Morse's district; he's a significant underperformer vs. Obama's totals. Gives me hope that we will get the district back in 2014 – but R's will fight hard to retain the seat. Here's hoping that Herpin plays the ultra-conservative CO Springs reactionary that he is.

    2. Latest:

      Ballot Issue – State Senate 3 – Recall Giron – Ballot Issue

      28 of 112 Precincts Reporting – 25%

       

      Name

      Votes

      Vote %

       

      Yes

      5,476

      57%

       

      No

      4,137

      43%

       

      Ballot Issue – State Senate 11 – Recall Morse – Ballot Issue

      29 of 31 Precincts Reporting – 94%

       

      Name

      Votes

      Vote %

       

      Yes

      8,777

      51%

       

      No

      8,414

      49%

    2. Heavy Republican precincts reporting first if they don't use voting centers.  Will be a big blow if Giron loses.  Hope there are still some Democratic votes left to be counted.

            2. Which ones do you want repealed?  Let me guess.  You want to be able to sell your AK-47 to any criminal or domestic abuser you want because you don't give a shit about what they are going to do with the weapon as long as you make your greedy little profit.

                1. Bullfuckingshit!!  It's about gun manufacturer's profits!  Not one thing else . . .

                  . . . except, perhaps the very high price in human life that your party of dupes and toadies is willing to exact on the rest of civilized society to feed the profit maws of those merchants of death and misery . . . 

                  1. Your rhetoric is probably a reason why Giron lost in heavily democratic Pueblo.

                    Stop, step back, and reconsider.  Or don't do it and just be the liberal equivalent of some of the people that I have to deal with on the right who costs his/her party election after election. 

                    1. ROFLMAO — it's absolutely hilarious that you would deign to allude to "rhetoric" vis-a-vis these campaigns — when there wasn't one word of honest rhetoric, not a single damn one, from your recall side:

                      "confiscation . . . "

                      "loss of rights . . . "

                      "sickness in the soul . . ."

                      "gun grabbing . . . "

                      "choice . . ."

                      etc., etc.,

                      Nope.  Bullfuckingshit it was, and it is . . . although – admittedly – in these two cases, in these two carefully selected places, total dishonesty and the absence of any honest fact was clearly enough.  

                      More is the pity . . . and by that, I mean my pity for you, shyster — these very same people you cynically aligned with here are those same folks that some day you're going to want to have make a decision for you and/or your more important interests based onsome set of facts, . . . and with that ilk, you've just seen clearly that facts do no matter . . . good luck with your team.

                    2. How was Pueblo "carefully selected"?  It is heavy dem country.  Just about everybody expected Giron to win, and win handily.  

                      As for rhetoric, I'm referring to your efforts to severly marginalize/ridicule the feelings of those who feel their rights were violated. 

  10. Morse is history, but that probably wasn't surprising, and either way it would have been close.

    Giron will probably win due to the numbers in her district.

    1. Isn't she down like 20% points?  I know there is still technically 40% left to count, but she'd have to get about 75% of the remaining votes by my rough estimate.

        1. You guys still control a lot of stuff, so if I were on your side I wouldn't be all that bummed out.  You should take lesson from this though: we on the right aren't the only ones with echo chambers.

        2. Wow. Shocked by dramatic Giron turn around on checking back in. Even though Dems are still in control, there's little for any Colorado voter to celebrate here. Fasten your seat belts everybody. If you thought the constant electioneering was bad before, you ain't seen nothin yet. Buyer's remorse? Why wait until the next election?  We can just keep demanding immediate do overs. Who needs breaks between elections?  Who needs so much as a month without endless robocalls?  This is going to be just great.

          As for those who voted for the recall, the new gun laws will still be in place. They still won't have their guns taken away and it won't affect there lives in any significant way at all but the laws are still there.  They're  no closer to get capturing both houses of the state legislature and the Governorship which is what it will take to have things their way. 

          Demographics are still going to make any victories short lived. When they're done with all the victory dancing they're going to find that nothing much has changed and their opponents aren't on the run, promising to vote for an AK-47 in every home, personhood, banning birth control and rounding up every last undocumented worker in the country for fear of recalls.  The black guy will still be in the White House.

          Tonight is probably going to be the best time they'll ever have.

          1. The lesson that you should take away tonight is that the GOP isn't the only party whose morality power plays cost it elections.  The Dems gun power play is just a liberal morality power play and it cost it PUEBLO which isn't exactly a GOP stronghold.

            1. liberal morality power play

               

              Background checks? Really?  So there should always be a way for felons and criminals to acquire guns without a background check? 

              Arbitrary (mostly) magazine limits? Easily modifiable in the legislature whenever the majorties swing. 

              Or perhaps you refer to other recent legislation 50.1% of Morse's district didn't agree with. 

              Where are you on the expense and the philosophical validity of recalling an elected offical for votes with which a little over half  of the electorate disagree? 

              We have elections. The winners get to legilsate (elections matter). The losers get to run again next time. Only "next time" can be anytime, for any reason.  It's goofy way to run a Republic because the "will of the voters" is a moving target.

              Magpul has not left the state. The shooting events have not left the state. No one has had a gun taken away. And purchases that were rejected becuase of a backgroud check should have been rejected. Enjoy you wins.  (Ps, I believe outside interests spent more money than locals, and the bigger bdgets won. You can point to any other imaginary electoral factor – money matters.) 

              1. Regardless if you believe that these laws were good policy and not morality power plays, the majority of Pueblo voters in Giron's district disagree with you. 

                 

                And before you the. Attack the validity of using a recall to punish officials for votes of conscience, the Dems tried doing the same thing in Wisconsin against Walker.  

                1. Is this WI?  And what was the turn out?  I don't think those that voted for recall are a 'majoirty of Pueblo voters' a majority of the votes counted last night.  I think it basically signals the new special interest wars in our state.  Don't like more regulators in the oil and gas fields?  Nothing a few hundred thou in dark money funneled through a political shop cannot resolve–by booting the legislator and installing some braindead rubberstamp.

                   

                  2. CT,
                    So you opposed the WI recall on principle? Didn't think so.

                    As for "turnout", maybe, just maybe you overestimated the support these gun laws had.  For if your side wasn't willing to turn out in this race that had NATIONAL attention, it just doesn't appear the gun issue is all that important to them

                    1. Don't effing conflate me with every Democrat in the state legisaltures of Colorado and Wisconsin, counselor.  I think there was some merit in the legisaltive recalls in WI, since you ask, as there were serious procedural breeches in the way Walker's legisaltion was pushed through.  But its irrelevant.  Look up at the url.  What's it say?

                2. I thought the recalls in WI were dumb (in most casees) and I thought the recalls last night were dumb.

                  Yes- the D's are sometimes dumb ( hat tip, dwyer).

                  Doesn't make the GOTP less dumb. 

          2. The new laws are still in place. Democrats control the legislature. Few months of office, people will see how extreme these republicans Herpin and Rivera are. Magpul is gone.Giron can run again in 2014 if she wants. Democrats must turnout or they will lose. Mail ballots will also greatly help the democrats. The NRA extremists may have won this time, but their time is coming. If the NRA gun nuts were so powerful, CO wouldn't be a trending blue and we wouldn't have a democratic legislature. one must remember is that a lot of these gun nuts are single issue voters and many of these gun nuts don't have jobs and are more motivated to come out and vote. Democrats need to come out and vote or we will lose these low turnout elections.

  11. Many people will tsk, tsk the loss and not see that the story will be the power of the NRA, and that is going to be in every politician in this country.  The need to rein in outside campaign spending must be a priority for legislators in the states.  With a continuing request for certi on the Supremes, at some point they will have to return to Citizens.

    1. You all keep going on about the NRA, but didn't Bloomberg and company severly outspend them here?

      Fact is you guys struck a hornet's nest when you went and did those gun laws.  If you were smart you'd immediately undo them.

      1. (per the NYTimes: "While both sides campaigned vigorously, knocking on doors, holding rallies and driving voters to the polls, gun-control advocates far outspent their opponents. A range of philanthropists, liberal political groups, unions and activists raised a total of $3 million to defend Mr. Morse and Ms. Giron. Mr. Bloomberg personally gave $350,000. " (emphasis added)

        http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/11/us/colorado-lawmaker-concedes-defeat-in-recall-over-gun-law.html?hp&_r=0 )

      2. Still a first quality chapeau de derriere there Eliot. I'dsuggest your hornet comparison is quite apt since hornets are insects withan insect's nervous sustem and almost nothing that would pass for a brain.I can't think of a better description for the typical right-wing single-issue voter.

        1. Calling voters who disagree with you on only an issue or two brainless is not very good outreach.  But hey – keep at it – if enough people on your side do it, it will neutralize the Dudley Brown negative effects on other issues. 

          1. It is no doubt lucky CO Democrats get to compete against Colorado Republicans.  Hopefully your gubernatorial candidate Tommy Tank Tancredo can help with that.  And I thought it was awesome the eggmendment (if at first you fail, and fail, and fail…then by all means! Try Again!) were so quick on the tweet trigger to congratulate the two newest members on our state legislature.  That should add some good substance to bring up in a year when they are up for their first real election, maybe we can slap and dash that paint around a bit as well…splatter it up and down ticket…

              2. Exploiting the republicans and their weaknesses is the reason why we democrats are so successful in beating them in races. The republican party is the part of guns and intolerance. They are anti-immigrant, anti-women, anti-gay, anti-hispanic, etc

  12. What this sends is a message is if you don't vote the way we (radical NRA nuts) want. we will recall you and vote you out. The NRA failed on the other two recalls. We outnumber these radical gun nuts, but the thing I will give the gun nuts is that they are more motivated to vote than we sane democrats. The fact that an unemployed plumber who had to borrow money from his grandma to start this recall and succeed with it is shameful. A good senator lost her seat because a radical NRA unemployed plumber gun nut threw a temper tantrum because legislation was passed he did not like. Democrats need to get off their butts and vote. We must defeat these radical right wing gun nut extremists.

      1. I'll break my promise never to respond to you or about you just to supply the following factual info with no editorial comment.

        There were recalls against 9 legislators in Wisconsin.  6 were Against Rs. 3 were against Ds. Two of the six Rs were recalled and replaced by Ds.  All three of the challenged Ds retained their seats in the recall elections.  Separately, a statewide recall of the R Governor was not successful.

      2. Yes – and we lost because unlike the gun folks, there were a lot of Democrats in Wisconsin who were of the opinion that legislative/executive actions that were legal if unpopular weren't reason to vote for a recall.

        Today's Republican Party isn't about procedure; it isn't about law. Today's GOP is about power and intimidation. If the gun rights folks stepped back and understood the laws that were passed, rather than reacting like Moderatus above who insists that his gun rights were infringed – if they weren't gung-ho to remove a Democrat from their elected office regardless of the reason – I truly believe that last night wouldn't have happened.

        And, just a guess, if we'd had mail-in balloting, less motivated Democrats who weren't out for a cause celebre would have claimed the win.

  13. 2014 democrat turnout will be much higher. We need to make sure we vote these radical republicans extremists up Mail ballots will greatly help with that. We want to make sure Colorado remains a blue state. Chances are very good Rivera will lose the seat in Pueblo in 2014. CS will be a bit tougher, but we can do it. We need to vote and let these right wing gun nut whackjobs know that we are the majority, not them.cool

  14. I am very sad.  In a few days, I want to offer some thoughts about where and why for the Democratic party.  Right now, two factors that may have contributed to the loss, IMHO. First, the Syrian crisis put Democrats back in the spotlight and people really, really, do not want to support the President on the potential military strike. That feeling may have bled over into the recall election. 

    The second has to do more with Pueblo, and I, again, just my opinion.  The Aurora theater murders prompted the gun laws.  But the murder that had people in the CS and Pueblo concerned was the murder of the Director of Corrections, by a felon who  was the son of a friend of Hickenlooper.  The ongoing investigation has shown many flaws in the parole system and the sentencing procedures, that are going to be corrected, but can still cause problems.  Prison guards and other prison personnel live in Canon City and many live in Pueblo.  Pueblo West lies on the broad prarie between Pueblo and the collection of state and federal prisions.  People, or more specifically prison guards may have felt very vulnerable about potential danger coming from escapsed or paroled prisoners to them and their families.

    Background checks don't prevent criminals from getting guns on the "black market."

    With the possibility of prison gangs being able to target people outside of prison, successfully, I can understand people wanted to be able to protect themselves and their families with whatever weapons they felt necessary.  

     

     

     

     

    1. Could be something to your Pueblo West theory. Very discouraging in so many ways – the power of money, the power of fear, people reverting to their most base and primitive instincts. I can hardly wait for the outsized egos of the HerpinRiveraBrophyBaumgardnerMarbleKing show next session.

  15. These vote totals in Pueblo stink to high heaven, and not just because Angela Giron lost. I doubt their validity.  She would have had to lose 30-50% of Democrats, and almost all unaffiliated voters, in order to lose by 4,000 votes. 

    None of the campaign's polling showed that kind of gap. Every internal poll showed overwhelming support among Democratic voters, and a slight advantage among unaffiliated voters. So what happened?

    In my opinion, the vote was interfered with electronically. 

    Vote flipping is possible. It was probably used at a precinct level scale in the Florida Republican primary, and may have been prevented at the statewide (Ohio) level in the 2012 presidential election by the hacker group Anonymous. The Pueblo county Clerk's website was slowed down almost immediately,  supposedly by newsies trying to get vote totals. A hacking attack could have been part of this slowdown. 

    I know that Clerk Ortiz is careful, and insisted on each vote center's verifying vote totals before submission. The paper ballots were overwhelmingly in favor of Giron, (and against the recall), while the electronic totals were almost oppositie. I think that the electronic totals from the machines were interfered with somehow.

    You can call me a conspiracy kook, and some probably will. But these vote totals do not comport with lived reality. I don't have the technical expertise to comment on how interference may have been accomplished. I hope that others do, and will. 

    Bluecat is right that mail ballot elections limit this kind of interference – in that they generate  hardcopy, irrefutable evidence of voter's intent.  That is, in my opinion, another reason why the mail ballot election mandated by HB1303 was derailed by frivolous legislative action and non-serious candidates. In the Pueblo election, I think that the mail ballot totals, which were tallied early in the night, and showed Giron ahead at 69%-31%, were the more accurate totals. 

    Of course, I, and most of the campaign staff and volunteers, are sad, depressed, and angry at these results. We dread the extremist, anti-choice Rivera representing us in the Senate. We will mourn the loss of Senator Giron's vigorous, creative leadership.

    Our next steps are to continue to advocate for all mail ballot elections. Clerk Ortiz has 10 days to certify the results of this election. If irregularities and evidence of vote-flipping is found, I hope that the results will not be certified. 

    This isn't finished.

     

    2. There must be some legal remedy to check the electronic voting machines.  Is there any help available from the National Democratic Party?  Can the Justice Department help? 

      Would you comment on my theory about Pueblo West and prison guard voting?

    3. Mail ballots are also checked electronically and would be subject to fraud.  However, the ballots are hard copy and could be counted manually, if there

      were someway to mandate that count.  I think it has to do with a percentage of irregularies or some prior indication of tampering.  In other words, you have to prove fraud, first, in order to get the authority to hand count the ballots to prove fraud.

  16. The thing is gets me the most is that unemployed 29 year old bum can force a recall and cost the citizens many thousands of dollars all because he and some other radical gun nuts threw a temper tantrum about legislation that he obviously did not support. This is an abuse of the recall process. Recalling people simply because you did not like the way they vote? In a perfect world, this jobless bum Victor Head and his brother would pay back the taxpayers every single cent and dollar they cost them. 🙂

    1. He didn't force the recall. No matter how bad he might be as a potential legislator, he isn't the driving force that you should pay attention to.

      Make no mistake, the Pueblo signature gathering effort was top notch – just look at the low number of rejected signatures. The people who organized it – nationally, in part – are driven, detail-oriented folks who are willing to mislead the populace in order to get their desires.

      If you want to go after the undying force that is the radical right, start thinking about destroying their credibility – because if the scope of their lies and misdeeds were ever to sink in with the populace that currently believes them, they would crumble to insignificance.

  17. The people of Pueblo, well the people who apparently voted in the recall election wanted a radical republican extremist, they got one unfortunately. I hope Giron runs again in 2014. 2014 many democrats will come out to vote to re-elect Hickenlooper and if Giron runs again, which I think she will, she will have a very good chance of taking her seat back from the republican extremist George Rivera. George is an empty suit. He hates abortion, gay marriage, etc. The guy has nothing to offer. You can guarantee he will be partisan and vote along party lines. The democrats of Pueblo will have to suffer because this right winger will be voting with what his radical republican base wants. Here's hoping that Georges loses his seat in 2014 to either Giron or some other democrat.

  18. Guys/gals, this may be a defeat to us, but we need to be positive and concentrate on destroying the radical republicans in 2014 here in Colorado. We still control the legislature and the governor's mansion and the gun laws are still laws of the land. The gun nuts may have won a small victory, but we will win the war against these out of touch radical right wing extremists!

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