President (To Win Colorado)
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(D) Kamala Harris
(R) Donald Trump
80%
20%
CO-01 (Denver)
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(D) Diana DeGette*
(R) V. Archuleta
98%
2%
CO-02 (Boulder-ish)
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(D) Joe Neguse*
(R) Marshall Dawson
95%
5%
CO-03 (West & Southern CO)
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(D) Adam Frisch
(R) Jeff Hurd
50%
50%
CO-04 (Northeast-ish Colorado)
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(R) Lauren Boebert
(D) Trisha Calvarese
90%
10%
CO-05 (Colorado Springs)
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(R) Jeff Crank
(D) River Gassen
80%
20%
CO-06 (Aurora)
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(D) Jason Crow*
(R) John Fabbricatore
90%
10%
CO-07 (Jefferson County)
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(D) B. Pettersen
(R) Sergei Matveyuk
90%
10%
CO-08 (Northern Colo.)
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(D) Yadira Caraveo
(R) Gabe Evans
70%↑
30%
State Senate Majority
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DEMOCRATS
REPUBLICANS
80%
20%
State House Majority
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DEMOCRATS
REPUBLICANS
95%
5%
July 14, 2008 05:28 PM UTC
38 Comments
did they decide to hold this at 9:30 am on a Monday?
Us working stiffs can’t duck out to Parker to see this, they should’ve had it in the evening. 🙁
Someone please ask both of these candidates if they support real employee free choice.
You can choose to work in a union shop, or not.
I don’t think you ever answered my (reasonable) questions from a few days ago.
Sounds like 67,000 state workers have a Colorado specific Right to Work to me!
Why did the governor feel that the federal law did not go far enough? The governor is a moral leader and gave state workers the protection of Right-to-Work.
Right-to-Work means forced membership, forced dues and forced fees are not a condition of employment for Colorado state workers thanks to the governor.
Shouldn’t all Coloradans have real employee free choice?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…
Start your own diary about this topic, it has nothing to do with this one.
This blog is about a debate he and the other guy Schaffer.
I started off with an issue dear to Congressman Udall – employee free choice.
Congressman Udall sponsored in U.S. Congress a bill to remove the secret ballot from unionization processes.
Parsing went into the TP’s on workplace choice as a condition of employment.
I simply pointed out that the governor provided State of Colorado employees with the Right-to-Work as additional workplace protection.
Amendment 47 protects worker rights, including the right to strike, collective bargaining and the right to organize and belong to a union.
The Colorado Right to Work Amendment simply removes the requirement that workers MUST join a union as a condition of employment.
It sounds like a fair, responsible and sustainable policy currently available only to state workers. Shouldn’t all Coloradans have the right to employee free choice?
No matter the topic, no matter the thread, its the same cut-n-paste…
Rowdy crowd with plenty of signs for both candidates. Wadhams slinking around in the background. Schrager just put the microphones on them. Steve Ormiston, VP of Shea Homes, chairman of SE Business Partnership, welcomes us to the debate.
And did the Wad Man allow Schaffer to mingle after the debate or was he promptly escorted back to the bunker under Camp Wing Nut so as not to run the risk of another extemporaneous faux pas?
What needs to be done to turn this economy around?
Udall: People need relief. New energy policy that takes advantage of all the opportunities in front of us. Schaffer voted for tax cuts for oil companies. Need comprehensive energy policy — more drilling, but also investments in alternative energy. If Schaffer had followed my leadership, would be using 1 million less barrels of oil a day. Tax policies to help small business, working people. Schaffer voted for those who didn’t need it. Responsible tax cuts, energy policy. Work together, get this right.
Schaffer: First thing is elect people who understand the country. When elected in ’96, looking at large deficits and welfare system collapsing. Clinton years were bad until Republican Congress came along. Cut tax rates, increased tax revenues dramatically. High tax policy suppresses entrepreneurship and ingenuity of American people. 35 percent corporate tax rate sees jobs leaving America to places like Ireland. ’96-’02 revolution balanced budget, reformed welfare system, reduced taxes on middle class families, BTW oil tax cuts were to equalize tax rates, help American producers achieve environmental goals sooner than otherwise. Those tax incentives reaped benefits through economic growth.
Udall: No one thinks oil and gas companies need additional tax breaks. Put those breaks into new energy economy. Enormous salaries shouldn’t be on backs of American public. We need nuclear, coal, renewables, conservation. Look at where our economy is. Direct tax cuts to people who need them. Future in front of us, see it and grab it.
Schaffer: Tax policy did: $35 a barrel, $144 a barrel today. $4.11 gasoline a tragedy, not by accident — function of limiting and restricting ability of America to provide its own energy. Country provides 28 percent of world’s economy. Provide more opportunity. (“Be polite, friends from Boulder,” to booing.) We are in charge of determining our energy future instead of placing it in the hands of those who have driven up prices to $4.11 which is crushing American families today.
…reading Schaffer’s rewriting of history.
“Clinton years were bad until Republican Congress came along.” Yeah, all two of them. And then we went on to the best economy in American history.
“Cut tax rates, increased tax revenues” IIRC, Clinton increased taxes on the top few percent and THAT cause the treasury income to skyrocket.
“’96-’02 revolution balanced budget” Clinton was balancing the budget in ’93, before the Pubs controled Congress. Not one Pub voted for his budget.
On, and on, and on and…oh, am I repeating myself? What a fucking moron. Or liar.
CLINTON balanced the budget, CLINTON handled our debt responsibly, all so the current administration can go on a spending/debt orgy and turn us into a second rate country while destroying the dollar.
The irony is too hard to handle sometimes when you hear the crap that comes out of Shaffer’s mouth. Thank god he’ll be nowhere near the US Senate.
No solutions, just BS.
Schaffer apparently think Boulder’s influence in Colorado is all encompassing (he’s used Boulder at least ten times in ten minutes).
Udall’s caffeine hasn’t kicked in yet.
Roan plateau?
Udall: Protect economy of Western Colorado, dependent on oil and gas and hunting and fishing. Beautiful canyons, way of life we’re protecting. Plan to move forward makes sense, glad Schaffer joined us in supporting it. Work with everybody. Bipartisan means you work together, no one party has monopoly. Roan Colorado treasure. Phase in leasing. Belongs to all of us, make sure revenues go to our children and our future.
Schaffer: Washington spin is interesting, sometimes impressive. I didn’t join you Mark on Roan plateau. With governor all along and you joined us. (Udall interjects: Run to the front quickly and say you were there all along.) Never in favor of ban on exploration like you and both Salazars were. 9 trilliion cubic feet of gas for Colorado and rest of country. Generate tremendous revenues for schools, counties, workers to harvest clean-burning energy, important for state. Efforts to delay and put off development under responsible rules with serous oversight is an economic model and failed leadership Colorado hasn’t been used to strategies of delay. Means enough to heat every home in Colorado for 20 years. Why place moratoriums when energy prices are climbing? Dont’ defend high energy prices, drive them lower.
Udall: Don’t mischaracterize my record. Called for smart, phased development of Roan Plateau, just like Salazars and Ritter and people of Western Colorado who know economy is important. Let’s do this right so benefits unfold and we protect what’s special about Colorado. We make our living off those lands, can do both wisely and smartly.
Schaffer: That moratorium has a bill number and your name on it, if you’d like me to produce it. Let’s look forward. Good compromise, thank goodness for Ritter’s leadership for stepping between those for no development and those for accelerated development. Not perfect, but reasonable development that leaves 1 percent under development at any one time. Commend governor for leadership, this is good for Colorado
Bill H R 4761 ; vote number 2006-354 on Jun 29, 2006
Wow, the Republicans really are willing to screw their entire party just to get Schaffer elected.
And with Schaffer saying that oil & gas development will bring in more tax dollars, does than mean he will support Ritter’s initiative to bring us more tax revenue from the oil & gas business?
Because cutting taxes raises taxes. Or something.
Oil shale?
Udall: Shale has held potential, look forward to results of research. Economics, technology, water needs all need to be answered. Not going to turn Colorado into a national sacrifice zone. Schaffer says Washington is a far-away place but he served there, he’s not a stranger to the public square. I have private sector experience, ran Outward Bound and met payroll. People in Washington talk about oil shale as if Colorado doesn’t matter. Black Sunday devastated Western Colorado, we have to do this right. Can’t drill our way out of this. Move forward same as Pickens announced, renewable technology, clean coal, take another look at nuclear. Americans first, Coloradans second, member of my family third, Democrat fourth. Work together, lot of green in green.
Schaffer: That is why I’m running for the U.S. senate. Do not believe constant delay is strategy for America’s energy independence. Why we’re paying $4 a gallon for gasoline. (People from Boulder be polite to me.) We need it all. Efforts to delay on Roan equivalent to delay oil shale developments. Delay east coast, west coast, Alaska, Gulf, everywhere there’s been a proposal to harvest new resources. Result of delay couldn’t be more profound. Udall proposal on oil shale a red herring — no rush to develop oil shale. Regulations allowed to go forward, producers can go to their boards, capital markets to answer questions about research, water and electricity consumption. Answers difficult because refusal to put rules forward. Moratorium delays 8-10 years. Won’t see commercial processing for years. Not an argument about raping and pillaging Colorado today. Arguments are two decades old and irrelevant to today’s discussion.
Udall: I’m not talking about delaying, I’m talking about doing this right. An oil and gas executive wants to move fast to develop technology that hasn’t been proven. Millions of acres leased, let’s develop those. We have to work together,, be honest we can’t drill our way out of this. Shell and others own thousands of acres, if they think technology is viable they can go forward. The water is very important. Schaffer supported Ref. A to redirect water from all over Colorado. Have to do it in a way that doesn’t take advantage of rural Colorado. Not the case a group in Washington responsible for gas prices where they are today.
Schaffer support for Ref. A?
I represented a rural area, entire eastern part of Colorado. Water equally important on West slope. Notion those wanted to steal from one community and give to another entirely speculation. Takes three gallons of water to produce one barrel of oil through shale. Takes 1,000 gallons of water to produce same amount of ethanol. If you can embrace ethanol, which I do, and my oil company is an ethanol producer and wind producer. You cant’ say 1,000 gallons of water — barrels, not gallons. What has changed is war in Iraq, military throughout the world, $400 billion annual deficits, debt and monetary policy favoring a weak dollar. All taken place since Democrats have taken majority in Congress. (Widespread booing. Schrager threatens to stop the taping.) Function of great many things. $4.11 gas not just matter of constriction on supply, also a function of little attention paid to sound monetary policy. Investors go to stability against falling dollar, leads investors to valuable commodity. Gold also shot up, oil follows it. Scarcity value and use value drives up price, people hedging and guessing politics won’t change in Washington so economy will decline, punishing tax policy reducing America’s economic productivity.
Udall: Have record of working with everybody in the delegation, I worked with Bob Schaffer in the Congress. When I serve, I’m not going to pick out one community and stereotype that community. I’m on Armed Services, let’s give our troops a round of applause. There’s as diverse a community in the Springs as there is in Eldorado Springs, Dick Wadhams. When I stand on the Continental Divide, or Pikes Peak, I just see Colorado, wonderful, hardworking, independent people. To suggest the Democrats in control in Congress for 16 months doesn’t hold water. We’re all responsible, we have to increase supply and dampen down demand. I’m bullish, we’ll have a Manhatten-like project, have to work together.
Why are we in Iraq and how will we know when we’ve won the war?
Schaffer: Whereas U.S. and U.N. have condemned Iraq for failure to destroy weapons of mass destruction, fought Kurds, record of using weapons of mass destruction, support of international terrorism, requires strong response. That was Mark Udall’s resolution supporting declaration of war against Iraq. This is only a partial reason for stopping those whose vision is a jihadist Caliphate extending through Middle East, ultimately the United States. Back to fall of the Shah and hostages in Iran, different combination of anti-American terrorists who want to dominate entire planet. Iraq supports terrorists who attacked America on 9/11. Disagree we ought to telegraph to our enemies by holding hearings. (Schrager: How will we know when we’ve won the war?) Iraq one battlefront in larger war. We will be able to celebrate success when Iraqi military able to defend own nation, pressures from aggressive Iran subdued sufficiently on border and insurgency effort. When Iraq is attracting foreign investment. Declare success before totally self-sufficient, but security force, government able to operate through elections, economic might that allows Iraq to stand on its feet. Won’t be next year or in next two or three years most likely.
Udall: I serve proudly on Armed Services committee. Threat of extremism is real, we have to fight it and use all of our weapons including our Bill of Rights and economic system. We will prevail. Voted against the war because we were taking our eye off the ball when it comes to Afghanistan and al Qada. Listened to Scowcroft, Zinni, didn’t have a plan to win the peace. I propose we make responsible and honorable exit with no timelines, bring our soldiers home, finish the job in Afghanistan, reinvest at home. Risk of staying in Iraq in open-ended commitment is riskier. Can turn this over to them, bring international community in, reinvest in our own country. Clear contrast with Shaffer. We will win war on terror if we work together.
How to defend culture and home against Pinion Canyon?
Shaffer: Army has announced interest in expanding training area. Desirability is similarity to Iraq and Middle East. However, Army has not made a compelling case for expansion of area they currently own into additional areas. Army has not made proper planning or done environmental analysis. So I don’t support expansion by Army, but I have certain sympathy with the Army because they stated desire for more land and intended to move forward so everyone would have a clear understanding what it entails but Congress froze funds to plan expansion. Real decision up or down isn’t going to happen because of deliberate efforts to delay.
Udall: Sounds like Washington spin to me. Congressman DeLay and Shaffer were allies. I’ve been opposed to efforts to expand Pinion Canyon. Visited there. Wonderful and unique place, you should all see it. Joined with Salazar and Musgrave to demand what DoD intends to do. We have to be very careful about supporting people in southeastern Colorado.
Schaffer had a real opportunity to secure the Eastern Plains. He didn’t take it on this issue alone. Seems as though he’s slipping away from a firm stance on PRIVATE PROPERTY RIGHTS. Udall on the other hand condemns the effort to expand and seems to recognize that a culture is at the crux of the issue. When Democrats run on Republican issue in CO they WIN. WAKE UP When Republicans slink away from being Republicans they LOSE. Come on BOB be a champion of private property rights and take a stand.
This is what’s wrong with Republicans.
Issues aren’t partisan. They effect everyone. Republicans don’t own issues anymore than George Bush understands economics. Solutions like welfare for the rich are partisan but not issues like property rights. If Republicans cared more about their communities than making tax cuts for the rich as their only solution to all issues then maybe they wouldn’t be an endangered herd.
Health care plans?
Udall: Many don’t know how to cover premiums, we need Coloradans healthy. Not for government solution Expand children’s health insurance program. More investment in electronic medical record keeping, insurance pools for small business, tax credits for struggling families, insurance companies can’t discriminate against pre-existing conditions. Lot of great ideas, Republican and Democrat. Ought to come together, it’s about our national security. Need every American as healthy as possible to win war on terror.
Schaffer: I don’t believe in single-payer, government-run health insurance for the country. Visited with coloradohealthcare.org reps, there are some government solutions, ought to insist on universal access. Doesn’t mean take money out of your pocket give to people who engage in unhealthy lifestyles. Reward preventative care, provide incentive for caring for your families. Friedman point on spending my money on you and caring or not about cost or quality. Best of all worlds: spend our money on ourselves. Understand role of Medicare setting prices in the marketplace — Medicare bill had glaring errors. Oxygen concentrator costs $600, rules force patients to rent it for $1,200 a month over three years instead of just buying one. Only in Washington DC. Competition on that basis, government had pilot project to allow suppliers of equipment to drive cost down and it did. Once lobbyists got done, answer was to end competition on equipment. Drives up cost for the rest of us. We need people in Washington who understand economics, stand up to lobbyists, get back to you pay for you.
Udall: Medicare is successful, hear from Schaffer how Medicare has problems. Lot of great ideas using private sector. Can’t just cut off health care, hope and pray you’ll have resources. Very important, next Congress, president has to work with business and consumer groups. We can get this right by working together.
Schaffer: Need more competitiveness in marketplace across board, refundable tax credits to buy insurance on the market. Welfare reform has saved state hundreds of millions, incentives to divert those dollars to health care for low-income children.
By accepting Schaffer’s point (and in fact preempting it with his initial answer), Udall wins this question.
Universal health care is important to me, though. While I agree we could be effective yet stop short of single-payer care, I believe it could be just as hard – and certainly more complex – to do it piecemeal. We need to be vigilant on costs, but Medicare costs are not the major cause of our health care problems (sorry, Bob). We must recognize that some people have pre-existing conditions who haven’t caused those conditions through their lifestyle, we must remove the excessive overhead of many current plans, and we must begin to treat people as resources and not burdens.
Was called away and missed the majority of the debate. Nice recaps.
Did the crowd ever settle down or did they just get rowdier?
I had half an eye on the debate but wasn’t really paying attention. Then I really stopped paying attention when Schaffer started getting confused over barrels and gallons. That was priceless… 🙂
I did not see the debate so this is based on RedGreen’s excellent summation. It sounds like Schaffer kept trying to draw a line in the sand and Udall kept responding with a generic big picture “lets look at all sides of the issue.”
The problem for Schaffer is not that approach – it can be very effective. The problem is where he draws that line. He puts himself on the minority side of issue after issue and leaves the rest for Udall.
I’d say this was a plus for Udall.
it was also probably why I kept zoning out. Udall definitely kept playing the role of Moderate Mark and giving “big picture” answers and responses. He never really gave Schaffer any ammo…and when you have a big lead in the polls, you really doesn’t want to.
I think it was a plus for him as well.
Though, I have to admit I was at least mildly impressed by BS. Not so much by anything he said…and he’s not a great debater…but given the overall pile of crap that his campaign has been, the fact that he was able to walk to the podium without tripping was a plus. 😛
Well if making it to the podium without killing himself is where we set the bar, then yes, Schaffer was quite impressive. 🙂
But on substance he was on the wrong side of every issue. You just look at where the public is on everything from health care to Iraq to gas prices to renewable energy, and the guy is just dead set against Coloradans and their wishes.
So instead he spent the hour denigrating Boulder, often when his mic was turned down to rile up the crowd, and using distortion after distortion in between falsehoods to get his “point” across. The guy was really pretty pathetic, and he comes off as angry with no solutions to suggest.
The difference in speaking styles was profound. Schaffer threw red meat confrontation to Udall’s mantra “we can all work together.” It’s as if Schaffer is still running in a primary while Udall is aiming for the general, and it’s probably true the two candidates are considering different audiences. Schaffer was unrelentingly hot, which plays well to a crowd, vs. Udall’s considered cool, which appears much better on television. I don’t think those are simply differences in personal style, but were chosen by the candidates based on their perceived goals — to fire up the base or reach out for the middle.
Less consequentially, Schaffer’s command of anecdotes was impressive, and he made a point of acknowledging the Green Party candidate, who attended the debate but didn’t speak. Note too from the relative size of each candidate’s text blocks in the summaries above — Schaffer spoke fast and crammed in a lot more in his answers than Udall, for what that’s worth. And Schaffer’s fumble on gallons vs. barrels was hilarious but he didn’t linger on it.
Neither candidate scored major points or forced the other into a memorable gaffe, but Schaffer’s misrepresentations might come back to haunt him. It’s curious that Schaffer seems to believe his tenure in Congress exactly coincides with a Republican Golden Age. Does his self-regard know no bounds?
I’m sorry I missed the off-mic “Boulder” goading, Thilly. The crowd took the bait, it sounded like, and Schaffer seemed to feel he scored some points when Schrager threatened to turn off the cameras and shut down the debate, comparing the audience to 3-year-olds.
Still, is it time to label Schaffer for what he is, a smart-ass thug? It’s a phrase Dick Wadhams will recall fondly:
That’s right, the same Brian Schweitzer who lost the Senate race to Wadhams, then won the governorship and is on the short list as a possible Obama vice presidential pick. Wouldn’t that drive Dick crazy?
Either from the audience or one on one with individuals? Or did they both disappear as soon as it was over?
talking to the press. But one thing that I though was interesting was that there was a TV cameraman and reporter there with no markings, a camera that was at least 20 years old, none of the other reporters knew who they were, and they just monopolized Schaffer and lobbed softball after softball as the other TV cameras looked on.
So either there’s a new TV station in town that nobody knows about yet, or Wadhams hired a fake reporter to try to skew the coverage.
from an unscreened audience?
You so funny David. Make sides hurt with funny fantasies.
Tell me I’m wrong somebody. Tell me big bad Mark stepped to the microphone and had an impromptu dialog with the masses.
Great coverage