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September 12, 2005 08:00 AM UTC

Denver Post Tackles C&D

  • 25 Comments
  • by: Colorado Pols

The Denver Post is running a big series on TABOR and Referenda C&D. The star of the first installment is Bruce Benson, the Republican fundraiser who is one of C&D’s major backers. TABOR Daddy Doug Bruce gets much of the pub in part two.

There’s a lot in this series — and too much to cut and paste — so use these links instead:

Part One

Part Two

Part Three

Part Four

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25 thoughts on “Denver Post Tackles C&D”

  3. You see Marshall, Hugo is so smart because he thinks that Ref. C and D supporters are so stupid that we’ll follow his logic and defeat both measures by failing to pass C.

    It’ll be great to see how everyone against C and D respond to the Post’s article tomorrow.  It is absolutely wonderful that Colorado is in the same ranks as Arkansas, Mississippi, and Alabama in inidicator categories especially while Colorado had a giant economic boom in the 1990s.

  4. My impression is that Hugo is smart. I am also under the impression that he doesn’t think that C&D supporters are stupid.

    I think he’s just having a little fun with you guys because your sales pitch comes across as if it were full of anger.

    Woe is me, no on C, yes on D. (for the children)

  5. I guess that if he’s calling me Beavis then he must be Butthead.

    Notice that I have not involved in any name calling. Marshall was just dense enough to call himself that. It must really chap his hide that people are actually picking up on it.

    For the record, No on C and Yes on D is not as stupid a vote as Yes on C&D. Either way, you’re wasting your vote.

    No on C, Yes on D!!! It’s for the children!

  6. No, what chaps my hide that you can’t articulate an argument so instead watching the anti-Colorado Economic Recovery Act crowd seems more and more similar to watch Beavis and Butthead.  No reasoning why their opinion is better, no logic, no thinking…

    Why don’t you try something revolutionary and tell me why you don’t support Ref. C & D?  I know this involves thinking.

    Here I’ll start and you can try to do the same thing.

    The reason people should vote for Ref. C & D is because our country didn’t just magically get this way.  Generations before us made investments like highways and colleges that allow us to enjoy the quality of life that we have today.  It is time that this generation kept that same committement that the greatest generation did that allowed our state to be successful. 

    Just like any successful business when times get bad they cut back but when times get better they make wise investment that ensure the long term success of the business.  It is time we continue to make wise investment instead of cutting back these crucial areas that our state need to be successful.  Cuts in these basic investment we need to succeed as a state will have to be made if Ref. C & D fails.  We need to make the same investments that the greatest generation made to ensure that we keep the quality of life we have come to expect in Colorado.

    Vote Yes on investing in the future, Vote Yes On Ref. C & D.

    See that was hard…I’m not crossing my fingers that Hugh will come through.  Probably just more childish jokes.  Yuck it up Hugh, the greatest generation would be proud.

  7. The problem, Marshall, is that the points have been made time and again (see all the past posts on the issue) and the Yes crowd kept up the chicken little act. The No crowd grew tired of a one-way logical argument against an emotional outpour. We just brought the discourse down to your level and you don’t like it. We have pointed the fallacy of your argument such as:

    Roads- I-25 has been under constant construction for the last 10+ years while they correct past mistakes.
    Pensions- Multiple instances of employees double dipping into PERA
    Schools- Private schools with less resources and less funds consistently outperforming public schools.

    I know, I know, if we only dump money into things all the problems will just go away. Hmmm, maybe not. It hasn’t before, why should it now? The better solution is to find a better way to reallocate the resources that you already have and find better ways to do things.
    I know that this isn’t what you wanted to hear from me so I’ll acquiesce.

    No on C, Yes on D!!! It’s for the children!…and for marshall, et al.

    /(did I use too many polysyllabic words for you? do I need to bring it down to your level again?)

    //oh smile, I’m just busting your chops.

  8. “Generations before us made investments like highways and colleges that allow us to enjoy the quality of life that we have today.”  Ah, do you mean the generation that remembers life without income taxes?

    Highways are why we have an excise tax on motor fuel, and higher education is something like half to 75% tuition and some schools can even become private enterprises.  I don’t think either one of those sources of money counts within the TABOR limit. 

    So go ahead and talk about roads and education if you want to, but what you’re really talking about is giving the state more money.  Of course they will use it as additional money for roads and education.  What else does government have to spend its money on?  The issue is not where it goes, but that it’s extra.  As in, a tax increase.

  9. “Why don’t you try something revolutionary and tell me why you don’t support Ref. C & D? I know this involves thinking.

    I don’t support C because I don’t want more of what it buys.
    If I wanted all of the things that the proponets of C say would come with its passage…I simply would move to New York.

    Paving over Colorado is of no interest to me.

  10. Joe Blow is half right.  Motorfuel taxes and car registration fees do count against the TABOR limit.  College tuition used to count but the legislature last year made them “enterprise” funds so they no longer count against the spending limit.  That’s what the fiction of those “scholarships” replacing former direct subsidies to colleges is about.  As to Keith’s latest bombast, how are you going to “move to New York” if we don’t have any roads?  Flap your ears and fly?

  14. Keith,
    I agree with you about not wanting more highways, but I would like the ones we already have to be properly maintained.
    I also want state-funded colleges to be able to keep the concept of “in-state tuition” as I am a student myself on a part-time basis and would not be able to afford non-resident tuition rates.
    There are also several gaps currently in funding of basic healthcare for no/low-income families.
    These are the primary reasons I am supporting C & D: to allow the state to take of its own people.

    As marshall said, I can appreciate your positions and your ability to express them. I simply don’t completely agree with them.

  15. Marshall,

    I too respect Keith for his sensible arguments. Interesting how now you choose to play the grown up persona. You sure didn’t sound too grown up attacking Caldara or the II, nor when you were defending Herb.

    Funny how someone who likes to resort to name calling is telling others to grow up. 

    You want to talk about childish? All of us on this blog are childish and naive in thinking that what we do on this blog is anything more than a (poor, at times) mental exercise. You are not going to change my point of view, nor anyone’s who is a regular here, no matter how thoughtful and insightful you are. Likewise, I won’t change anyone’s point of view here with serious comments or playful banter. Face it; we come here, day after day, because we are opinionated and crabby. We are the people that have more than a passing interest in the process and the outcome. Our minds were made up long ago on most issues. The difference is that I realized that some time ago.

    Please, stop the name calling and realize that this is not that serious. Not here. Maybe in other blogs or with the regular media it is, but most certainly not on ColoradoPols. The greatest evidence was the tall v. short arguments of a few weeks ago.

  16. Sorry for the long posts today. I, myself, hate when I have to scroll past other people’s ramblings. See? Here I go again. Ok, I’m stopping.

    I mean it.

    For real.

    ok, done 😉

  17. I think Governor Owens is setting the Dems up.  He has no future right now with the Christian Far-Right because of his home life, so he can take great risks to get back in favor with the Focus on the Family crowd.  So now what he is doing is trying to get C & D passed, then if they do, next year he will threaten or actually veto anything that comes directly from the Dems in the legislature and force any non-earmarked money to be used on his agenda and Republican programs.  Remember, education and roads have degenerated to this point while he was governor, and while the Repubs controlled the legislature.  Since when does he stand for education and roads?  Anyone up for a conspiracy theory?

  18. Darth, Darth, listen to your father! If Owens has been consistent about anything in the 30 years I’ve known him, it has been in advocating better highways.  Transit, no, highways yes.  Criticize his record on education if you like, but prior to amendment 23 he won full funding (inflation plus enrollment) for two years, something Romer never wrangled from the legislature.  Real Republicans support education and highways, even if we don’t want much government otherwise.

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