U.S. Senate See Full Big Line

(D) J. Hickenlooper*

(R) Somebody

80%

20%

Governor See Full Big Line

(D) Joe Neguse

(D) Phil Weiser

(D) Jena Griswold

60%

60%

40%↓

Att. General See Full Big Line

(D) M. Dougherty

(D) Alexis King

(D) Brian Mason

40%

40%

30%

Sec. of State See Full Big Line

(D) George Stern

(D) A. Gonzalez

(R) Sheri Davis

40%

40%

30%

State Treasurer See Full Big Line

(D) Brianna Titone

(R) Kevin Grantham

(D) Jerry DiTullio

60%

30%

20%

CO-01 (Denver) See Full Big Line

(D) Diana DeGette*

(R) Somebody

90%

2%

CO-02 (Boulder-ish) See Full Big Line

(D) Joe Neguse*

(R) Somebody

90%

2%

CO-03 (West & Southern CO) See Full Big Line

(R) Jeff Hurd*

(D) Somebody

80%

40%

CO-04 (Northeast-ish Colorado) See Full Big Line

(R) Lauren Boebert*

(D) Somebody

90%

10%

CO-05 (Colorado Springs) See Full Big Line

(R) Jeff Crank*

(D) Somebody

80%

20%

CO-06 (Aurora) See Full Big Line

(D) Jason Crow*

(R) Somebody

90%

10%

CO-07 (Jefferson County) See Full Big Line

(D) B. Pettersen*

(R) Somebody

90%

10%

CO-08 (Northern Colo.) See Full Big Line

(R) Gabe Evans*

(D) Yadira Caraveo

(D) Joe Salazar

50%

40%

40%

State Senate Majority See Full Big Line

DEMOCRATS

REPUBLICANS

80%

20%

State House Majority See Full Big Line

DEMOCRATS

REPUBLICANS

95%

5%

Generic selectors
Exact matches only
Search in title
Search in content
Post Type Selectors
August 18, 2005 08:00 AM UTC

Ritter Takes a Swing

  • 181 Comments
  • by: Colorado Pols

Former Denver DA Bill Ritter appears to be taking advantage of his current role as the only Democratic candidate for governor.

Ritter took aim at John Andrews, Marc Holtzman and Bob Beauprez over Referenda C&D. The salvo was a response to an article in today’s Rocky Mountain News about a new ad from the ‘NO on C&D’ camp funded by Andrews’ Backbone America Citizen’s Alliance. The ad takes a partisan angle by portraying all Ref. C&D supporters as Democrats, which is a decent political strategy. What concerns Ritter, and in fairness is more than a little sneaky, is the “fuzzy math” the ad speaks of. From the News:

…also says that passing Ref C will mean “$3,000 out of the pocket of an average family over the next five years.” Andrews said he got that number by dividing $3.6 billion by 4.8 million Coloradans, for an average of $750 per person in total lost refunds.

The Colorado Demography Office projected the state’s population would reach 4.7 million in July. If an average family has four people, Andrews said, $750 each would total $3,000.

“I know kids don’t pay taxes – that’s not the point,” he added. “The fact remains that all that money will be taken out of the private sector, and consequently the impact will be felt. I believe it is a fair calculation.”

The Legislative Council’s Blue Book does not. In the final draft of its Ref C analysis, the nonpartisan Blue Book, which was prepared this month and will be mailed to voters across the state to provide information on ballot issues, says Ref C would cost taxpayers an average of $491 over five years.

It’s one thing to use circular logic to call Ref. C&D a tax increase, which has been an effective attack thus far. But it’s another thing entirely to basically make up your own numbers, and Ritter called him on it. From a press release:

“My two Republican opponents are just wrong when it comes to their opposition to C&D,” Ritter said. ‘Im disappointed theyre putting politics ahead of whats best for Colorado. If theyre truly interested in serving Colorado, they should disavow John Andrews ad and demand that it come off the air. Colorado doesnt need Beltway-style, dishonest ads that distort the truth. Andrews should be ashamed of himself.”

…”Im the only candidate for governor who supports C and D, because they will help us address critical needs in health care, public education and roads,” Ritter said. “We can no longer be held back by outdated funding schemes and legislative financing tricks.”

This is a good move by Ritter, who has previously been quiet when he had opportunities to respond to events like this one but instead was trumped by former candidate Rutt Bridges. By doing this, Ritter is showing Democrats who worry about his liberal-leaning credentials that he has some backbone as a potential nominee.

For the full press release, click below…

Ritter Challenges GOP Opponents on C&D, Calls on Andrews to Pull Misleading Radio Ad

DENVER  Bill Ritter, Democratic candidate for governor, criticized his GOP rivals today for their opposition to Referenda C and D, and also called on a former Senate leader to pull a misleading ad off the radio.

“My two Republican opponents are just wrong when it comes to their opposition to C&D,” Ritter said. ‘Im disappointed theyre putting politics ahead of whats best for Colorado. If theyre truly interested in serving Colorado, they should disavow John Andrews ad and demand that it come off the air. Colorado doesnt need Beltway-style, dishonest ads that distort the truth. Andrews should be ashamed of himself.”

Ritter said he looks forward to debating Bob Beauprez and Mark Holtzman on the merits of C and D during the campaign. “But today, they must tell Colorado where they stand. Do they stand with me and other Coloradans in supporting an honest debate? Or do they side with this type of political distortion? Their silence equals their complicity, and Colorado deserves better.”

The Andrews-sponsored radio spot, which began broadcasting today, presents inaccurate financial information, according to a nonpartisan Legislative Councils Office analysis. The ad also falsely characterizes who supports C&D. The measures have broad bipartisan backing that includes Republicans Gov. Bill Owens and Bruce Benson and Democrats Bill Ritter and Mayor John Hickenlooper.

“Im the only candidate for governor who supports C and D, because they will help us address critical needs in health care, public education and roads,” Ritter said. “We can no longer be held back by outdated funding schemes and legislative financing tricks.”

Ritter, 48, served as Denvers district attorney from 1993 through 2004. He was born and raised in Colorado, earning his undergraduate degree from Colorado State University and his law degree from the University of Colorado Law School.

Ritter and his wife of 21 years, Jeannie, have three sons and a daughter. 

Tweet
Share

Comments

181 thoughts on “Ritter Takes a Swing”

  1. It’s easy to tell that Ritter has kids who go to public schools and will likely go to public colleges.  He’s worked in law enforcement, so he’s seen what TABOR has done to the state.

    Funny how the two rich guys running against him want to keep more of their tax money.

  3. I’m all for tax increasing, especially on the rich.  All of these user-fees a nickel and diming the poor, and transfering the tax burdern.

    And where are the GOoPs?

    They don’t care about education
    They don’t care about immunization
    All they care about it $25 for me.

  4. Yeah, Ritter is just a working joe who has been “representing clients in complex commercial and securities-related litigation, as well as internal and regulatory investigations.”

    http://www.hhlaw.com/site/news.aspx?Show=429&bhcp=1

    He is also a parnter at Hogan & Hartson “… one of the largest law firms in the Rocky Mountain region, with 85 lawyers in offices in Denver, Boulder, and Colorado Springs. The firm has over 1,000 attorneys practicing in 21 offices around the globe and serves local, national, and international clients in a broad-based practice that cuts across virtually all legal disciplines and industries.

    Hogan & Hartson has European offices in Berlin, Munich, Brussels, London, Paris, Budapest, Prague, Warsaw, and Moscow; Asian offices in Beijing, Shanghai, and Tokyo; and U.S. offices in New York, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, Miami, Los Angeles, Denver, Boulder, Colorado Springs, and Washington, D.C.”

    Makes you wonder how he makes ends meet.

  5. “I?m disappointed they?re putting politics ahead of what?s best for Colorado…”

    But isn’t that what this is all about politics? So, why wouldn’t you put it first? Without politics he wouldn’t be running for Governor.

    What is best for Colorado isn’t always what is best for Coloradans!

  7. Pacified – There are a number of communist countries out there, if you really believe the pinko nonsense you seem to peddle, why do you choose to live in a capitalist one?

  11. Strider, I am sure all of the candidates for Gov have worked hard and are successful – so what’s the big deal?  The breadth of Hogan & Hartson isn’t something Ritter should be ashamed of.

  12. pacified, your silly.  if you feel so strongly about helping others why don’t you give the government your entire paycheck?  Don’t try to guilt me into paying more taxes because you think you know where my money is better spent than me.  You do realize that Republicans do give more money to charity than Democrats (check out Fortune, they do a survey each year)

    What a socialist you are!

  14. communist?  socialist?

    Geez, your name calling of anyone who disagrees with you is almost impressive as John Andrews’ “fuzzy math.” 

    Why don’t you opposed to C & D go ONE DAY without using any government services?

  15. “nobigdeal”, financial success is admirable. But let’s not prop the guy up as some sort of blue collar working class joe just to facilitate a class war over C&D (which is exactly where “dd” was going with that post).

    None of the candidates for Governor are going to be effected finacially by C&D winning or losing.

  16. From Ken Gordon’s newsletter:

    Bill Gates Advocates Strong Education for Jobs

    Speaking to the National Conference of State Legislators today Bill Gates, the founder of Microsoft a company that employs over 30,000 people, told legislators to pay attention to education if they want their states to create good jobs.

    “K through 12 education and a good university system trumps everything else,”  Gates said.

    “If you go to Singapore or Beijiing you see them concentrating on training in science and engineering.  It is like capitalism on steroids.  It is a little scary.”

    “We are falling behind.  The fastest growing major in the United States is Physical Education.”

    “Jobs in high tech and advancing biology will go where the best educated people are.  Don’t worry about tax policy.  Companies will go where the best universities are even if they have to pay a little more in taxes.”

    “The ramifications for Colorado’s referenda C and D are obvious since higher education has been cut over 20% in Colorado,”  said Senate Majority Leader Ken Gordon who is present at the conference.

    “Gates’ comments highlight the importance of education, both k-12 and university.  We need to pass Referenda C and D if we want to compete with other states and countries in the effort to have a strong modern economy,” said Gordon.

  17. What angers me are those who see this as an ideological struggle — that this is somehow a Democrats versus Republicans battle, and if C&D fail, the Republicans have another feather in their caps to wave about victoriously.

    I live in Canon City.  The largest portion of our workforce are correctional workers.  The Legislature — both Ds and Rs — have done a pretty good job, both through creative accounting and statistical gimmickery, of keeping the effects of our budget crisis to a minimum.  But one of the most under-reported problems of our budget crisis is going on behind the walls of our prison system. 

    Three years ago, the crisis was so bad that correctional employees’ safety was being risked.  We’ve had even more budget cuts and staffing decreases since then.  If C&D fails, you can bet there will be even more cuts to prisons. 

    This is not about big government versus small government.  This is about a government that is so small people’s lives are put in jeopardy, or government that doesn’t put people’s lives in jeopardy.  Now, somebody’s going to call me a pinko-commie for suggesting that our government has responsibilities to our society, but that’s fine.  I just don’t want my friends and neighbors dying because of your “ideology”.

  18. The only government service I used today were the roads, and if they had a toll road that got me to work I’d use it.

    Why don’t you commies try a day without government services, it would be good for you, take care of yourselves for a change.

  20. If we sent all the illegals in Colorado prisons back to Mexico we’d have plenty of money for our own homegrown degenerates.

    Fix the problem before you put in more money.

    Same goes for Medicaid.  If you don’t at least do that you’re congratulatiing incompetence.

  21. “If we sent all the illegals in Colorado prisons back to Mexico we’d have plenty of money for our own homegrown degenerates.”

    Really? 

    Interesting how this seemingly fact-based statement is not backed up with any real, you know, facts. 

    How many “illegals” are in Colorado’s prison system?  How would a reduction in this number alleviate the staffing level issues?  Furthermore, while you may be fine with sending an axe murderer (or drug dealer, or rapist, etc.) to roam free across the border in Tiajuana, I’m kinda’ inclined to let him rot in jail.  I’m not real confident that the “illegal” won’t find his way back to Colorado and do it again. 

    Oh, sorry, that was logic.  Didn’t mean to confuse you.

  22. So we have crossed the “…because it will save people’s lives” threshold have we?

    Let’s forget about how we can save more and ride out a tough patch… Let’s just go right to “my neighbor will lose his job” and “because lives are at risk”.

    OK, I’ll be the callous one… No on C & D.

  24. I am against any tax increase, anytime, anywhere, under any circumstances.

    As long as there are still wasteful government programs that can be cut, we shouldn’t be going back to the people for more, when we could be cutting out extremely wasteful programs.

  26. They pay very high taxes in Cuba…idiot.

    Let’s stop wasting money on ineffective programs, before we go back to the public and take more from the hands of working families.

  30. The Bush tax cut proved to not help our economy.  We have been cutting taxes for decades.  At some point, if you cut needed programs, you will lose jobs and create hardships.  We don’t have a good economy, oil prices are taking away our disposable incomes … the choice is not an easy one, but we must protect our needed services … if we can spend billions in Iraq, then why in world can’t we keep us employed here? 

    I say we need the tax.  And, we need some real change on spending money for war and what we put in our cars and trucks.

  31. We need some kind of government, which costs money. 
    If C & D do not pass all the people that plan on voting against it will feel very sorry.  Including you George.

  34. So…you think taxes create jobs???

    Taxes, which remove money from the market, cut jobs.

    As for the Bush tax cuts, they have been effective.  The country has seen four straight years of job growth.

  36. Are you rich and Christian, George?  Doesn’t the Bible say to help others?  Will you cut 400 million form State programs for disabled people? from state programs for mentally retarded people?  from state program for single mothers?  from what?

  37. You act as though the only thing the government funds is K – 12 education.  The government also funds a bloated bureaucracy, with countless offices and programs that have no purpose and are completely ineffective.

    The government has spent $81.8 million delivering water to the Capitol since 2000, for example.  Or  $1,180 spent on 20 gallons of Starbucks Coffee at a hiring site, $526 for one phone call to Iowa City, or $19,292 for extra electrical circuits and cables at a site.

    I could go on.

  38. George, I agree that all those things need to be looked at (if they are actually correct), Sir.  However, the money will be cut from programs for the poor, the elderly, the schools.

  39. George –

    No … you are wrong.  Taxes are necessary to disperse the money that the wealthy have … providing support for the poor.  In many cases, the tax on the poor is too high, or for the middle class.  If you are against the tax, then it is likely because you are strapped from the war that Bush has created.  If you are suckered into this trap, then the divide between the rich and poor grows.  This is not good.  This then creates a demand on social services, to feed these unemployed people.  Unemployment creates great hardship … people lose their homes, their families, crisis happen, divorces.  Yes, taxes are not easy … but, it is like a savings account for the necessary services  … without them, we become angry, distrustful. 

    Without the tax … we follow into a continued trap.  IF we cannot handle the tax now, then we should borrow the funds from the General Fund or borrow it from ourselves, until the economy improves …

    BUSH has really caused us a mess … we cannot afford to lose more jobs in Colorado.  Where are these people going to go?

  40. The Inspector General estimated annual savings of $34 million if a single department eliminated some of its 36,000 underutilized and unneeded vehicles.

    Meanwhile, there are working families that have to do without, because the government is wasting.

  41. Taxes, in a Capitalist system, are not designed for the redistribution of wealth.  Your beliefs, Cuba, are Socialist.

    Even John Hickenlooper disagrees with the arguments you’ve been making.

  43. Well, Sir, I am sorry you feel that way. I also would like to apologize for my earlier outburst.  I have a wife that works for the state.  She often comes home crying as so much has been cut in her programs, in her departments.  She feels unable to assist the people of Colorado anymore that come ask for help or assistance.  Maybe you do not need that help.  Others do, Sir.

  45. Look guys, sometimes you act as though Republicans don’t care.  Truth is, we live in an era of Compassoniate Conservatism; we simply believe that working families can spend their money better than a bureaucrat can.

    Our government is wasting A LOT of money.  So, instead of doing the detail work and rooting out waste, they’re trying to raise taxes again.  I say, as will the people of Colorado in November, enough is enough.  Get back to work, cut the waste.

  46. CUBS –

    I have also seen the people that are turned away … that truly need the help.  And, their are people who are wealthy, that are unwilling to give to charity … thus, the only other way to get that support is to tax them.  You are correct … your wife is correct.

  47. George, should we send the poor people to your home for assistance?  Can you help them get food, get clothes, and other help?  Where should people with disabilities, with sick children, with elderly without family, (I can keep going on) go?

  49. Cuba, I appreciate your apology and I ‘feel your pain’ regarding the budget cuts.  You should be as pissed as anyone, that while your wife’s program is hurting and thus limited her capacity to help – some fat cat bureaucrat is wasting money in outrageous amounts.  I really wish that the Governor and the State Legislature, would have done the tough detail work of rooting out waste, instead of taking more from working families.

    And, I am not wealthy.

  50. Thank you, Peter.  I wish all people of the great state of Colorado could come to the social services offices (just as an example) for 1 hour, not even a day, 1 hour.  You would vote YES for C & D, George.  State programs have been cut dramatically the past years, Sir.

  51. George –

    You make these suggestions of government waste.  Please provide a current example that can be researched.  What waste are you talking about?

  53. George, I understand you point of view.  However, the reality is this: the programs that help people will get cut or will disappear completely.  I have no doubt about that.  Where will all those people go?  Bush is not going to help them.  He is helping Iraq and has no money for the poor, homeless, sick, and disabled Americans.

  55. I guess I feel sort of hopeless.  Do you have any idea what the morale is with state workers?  Do you know if C & D do not pass possibly 100’s of state workers might lose their work?  The budget cuts in programs for the poor, disabled, elderly, of the past years are REAL.  Not just fake numbers.

  56. The President of the United States is working with an international coalition to provide a foundation of security in that region.  It is a challenging time, but progress is being made.  Ask anyone who was in New York or the Pentagon a few years back, if working to root out the allies of terror is worth it?

    And, as much as it frustrates me, federal funding for social programs (which is more than 300% bigger than defense appropriations) has actually grown under the Bush Administration – that’s funding for the poor, homeless, sick and disabled Americans.  The budget cuts you’re seeing, are a result of state cuts.

  57. Please restate them.  If you are talking about cars and trucks … please provide an excel spreadsheet that provides evidence that you can solve this problem with reduced expenditures from that department, that can be used for the support of the programs that we need in C & D. 

    If you can provide this evidence, bring it to the Legislature and the Governor and committees, then I will support your argument.  However, if you cut funds from this department, how many jobs will be lost … please include the number of jobs that will be lost as a result.

  58. I do not know what else to say, Sir.  Voting No for C & D is a mistake that people will regret for years to come.  Even people that only want tax cuts and love “W”.  Having more homeless single disabled mothers with children on the street might be a good thing I guess?

  59. Another point I want to make.  John Hickenlooper balanced the city budget in six months.  This was a budget is disarray, people said that it couldn’t be fixed without raising taxes or cutting jobs.

    He balanced the budget in six months, even as the economy shrank.  You know how…he rooted out waste, he eliminated inefficiency.  He did not cut social programs.  He did not cut city jobs.  He rooted out waste.

    With hard work, that could be done on the state level.  Instead, our state leaders took the lazy option, raising taxes.  If only our state leaders were as good as Hickenlooper.

  60. George, you wrote: “The budget cuts you’re seeing, are a result of state cuts.”  Exactly, Sir!  State CUTS are REAL!  There is nothing else to cut there, besides closing whole departments and laying off 100’s of state workers.

  61. George –

    Your argument has no weight … provide REAL examples … send them to our local newspapers, expressing these wasteful expenditures.

  62. No Peter, you are wrong.

    The mess we are in was not created by Bush going to war. It was created by your buddies Bill Clinton and Janice Reno deciding to listen to their big campaign contributors who wanted them to sue Microsoft. So everyone who had bought Microsoft 97 got their $35 refund and the rest of us got to watch tens of thousands of dollars evaporate from our 401K accounts.

    That’s all it took, they cut the knees out of the giant in the economy and we got to watch billions of dollars disappear from the system. The good news is that TABOR had let us build this huge surplus, so it took a while for our State budget to feel the effect.

    Now here we are, the economy is getting better, folks who haven’t had a raise in five years are finally looking to get one. But now the bureaucrats want that raise. No thanks I would like to save it for my kids college, or maybe take the really nice vacation that I and my family haven’t been able to afford since 1999. Who knows I might give it to a women’s crisis center or my church’s charity fund. Because I do care and I can judge better than the bureaucrats how best to spend my money.

  64. I would welcome Hickenlooper as Governor of the State of Colorado, Sir.  Do you know state workers have not received a real raise in 4 years, Sir?  state workers are often described as fat cats too. this is not true at all.

  66. Seriously, the Hickenlooper example is a good one.

    Mayor Webb tried to balance the city’s budget for years, failed miserably and the budget was entering crisis mode as the economy was slowing down.

    Hickenlooper, IN SIX MONTHS, balanced the budget, just by rooting out waste.  Not a single job was cut.

  67. My wife has actually made less the past 4 or 5 years as the state pays less and less for her health insurance.  her cost is like $200 a month for herself.  not convering anyone else in the family, Sir.

  68. Independence Institute is a good place to start.  Bighorn usually has good stuff too.  A few of the state legislatures have examples on their websites.

  69. George –

    Hickenlooper may have balanced the budget, but he has also created a negative growth plan … whereby, needed programs are now on a very lean machine.  These lean machines also create problems, because no more fat exists to steal or send somewhere else.  You can only cut so much fat, before you are faced to go into debt …

    You can blame the Bush Administration policies on causing the negative economic growth … it provides an element of more time, hoping for improved economic results, but eventually, the house of cards comes crashing down because of his GREAT wasteful spending in a war that we should have never started.

    George, how much money do we spend on our military each year, on killing people?

  70. We spend WAY more on non-discrectionary federal spending then is spent on the military.

    The military is a little over 10% of the federal budget, while social programs are over 60%!!!

    I’m telling ya, root out the waste.

  71. George –

    The Independence Institute is a right wing think tank … do you really think you are getting a fair representation from them?  Further, I have not seen anything from the State of Colorado that suggests these areas of wasteful spending …

    Indeed, people have positions today where they look for these areas where funds can be cut … we have very little if any fat that we can continue to cut, without a loss of jobs.

  73. Cuba you have no idea how stupid you are sounding. You are whining about how hard your life is with your wife working for the Government. The hardships you describe don’t come close to what the normal folks of this state have gone through since the last time the governement played social engineer with the economy. No raise in 4 years? My heart is breaking. $200/month health care? That doens’t sound too bad buddy. What department does she work in? I’ll write my state rep and see if we can bring you guys more in line with the rest of us.

  75. Well, one, you asked me how much we were spending on the war to spread freedom and democracy in comparison to how much we spend on wasteful social programs?  Which would be a federal matter.

    And, two, a lot of the state’s programs are funded through the federal government, which as more fat cat bureaucrats waste money are the mandates go unfunded, there is a greater burden on the states.

  76. Uh, Pete… You’re the one that brought up the Federal Budget buddy… Your wrote:

    “George, how much money do we spend on our military each year, on killing people?

    Posted by: Peter at August 18, 2005 07:28 PM”

    Try to stay with your own logic stream here buddy.

    and Remember: “Vote for Angie! She’s the leader for the bad economy! Bankruptcies for everyone when you elect Angie!”

  77. George –

    And, if our national economy is not performing well, because of a ill-advised national agenda by the Bush Administration … and, a net loss of jobs are created, or we see reduced economic growth that effects the local and state economy, then who pays for the net loss? 

    Where do these people go for shelter, food … care?  And, if we are allowing illegals into our country, and Bush is not accepting the responsibility for that decision, then maybe you need to start talking with your Republican Senators and Congressman, asking for a great deal of changes???

  78. George –

    If the economic situation continues as it is right now, the changes will be made by a new electorate of Democratic Senators and Congressmen …

    Say “hello” to a forced change, because your Republican agenda failed and proved faulty, not protecting the citizens of the majority.

  79. One, we have had four straight years of job growth, as a result of the Bush tax cuts and the Republican’s positive agenda for America.

    Two, I agree fully that the border security of the United States is a critical issue.  I believe this year the Republican Congress passed the REAL ID Act and increased funding for border security agents in the federal budget, both of which were signed into law by the President of the United States.

    I also wouldn’t be surprised to see more federal activity on this issue this fall.

  80. George –

    And, how do these national policy effect our State growth issues?  Hummmmm.  I bet you know that answer George … a lot George.

  81. Well, Colorado was a part of the United States the last time I checked.

    Unfortunately, Colorado’s job situation has not been as positive as the rest of country (we had only 1% job growth last quarter I believe) — if only the Democrats in the state capitol would work on that, instead of figuring out ways to raise your taxes.

  82. George –

    We have only had an improvement in net jobs, because Bush has placed our national budget into trillions of debt.  Explain how we are going to pay off that debt and where we will cut funding from a Federal level? 

    Should we consider cutting the military budget in Iraq to help the people here in America?  Hummmmm.

  83. Well, Colorado was a part of the United States the last time I checked.

    Unfortunately, Colorado’s job situation has not been as positive as the rest of country (we had only 1% job growth last quarter I believe) — if only the Democrats in the state capitol would work on that, instead of figuring out ways to raise your taxes.

  85. George –

    1) Would you be in favor of cutting Federal Jobs for programs that assist wealthy Americans?

    2) Would you be in favor of increasing taxes at the Federal level to balance the Federal budget, with a tax increase on the wealthy, to keep our military in service, and to keep the FBI, CIA, and other needed government agencies functioning?

  86. I don’t agree that those are the two options.

    We can cut waste.  The choice is not jobs or taxes.  The choice is to cut waste, which I favor.

    Like I said earlier, the military establishment is a very small fraction of the federal budget; which really should get you thinking as to the size of the waste we’re dealing with here.

  88. George –

    Obviously, your logic does not work at the Federal level … Bush has spent more than any other President in history, placing us into severe national debt problems. 

    If you were to use your Philosophy (that you suggest at the state level on the national budget level), all of our military would be without jobs, all of our government would stop functioning, and further, the CIA and FBI would be out of work.

    You don’t see the complexity of the problems at the State level – obviously …

    And, President Bush has been the worst President in history with the beginning of his office, with a beginning of the use of a budget surplus, placing our State and National debt issues into serious harm.

    Blame your President for the budgetary problems at the state level … and, don’t make it the problem of state workers for the decisions that our current selected President has made …

    It is a very unfair justification that the people of the State of Colorado should lose their jobs for the decisions of the President.

  89. well…i see you’re back to blaming the boogy man.

    we need more fiscal discipline, cutting out the pork  , before we take more money from working families.

  90. Keith –

    Because, if you lose jobs, then you create other more serious issues.  Unemployment is greatly more difficult to re-employ and re-train … costs are higher. 

    IF the country stops, productivity stops, state government STOPS, then it is ten-times more difficult to solve their needs of shelter, food and other items.  Do you think our Federal Government will pay for those losses?

  93. George –

    NO … you place the State of Colorado into debt to protect the productivity and life-blood of state productivity.  Once, the state shutsdown … would you then be happy???

  94. If you cut more taxes in Colorado there will not be any government left to help people.  Your children will have to pay to go to a public college like they are attending a private college.  Are you ready for that?  How will that save you and your children money?  How?

  95. Well, you could just root out wasteful spending, as Hickenlooper did for the city and county.  Which would also have the effect of making your beloved social programs more effective, thus helping more people.

    Or you could raise taxes.  This will cause people to lose their jobs.

  96. George –

    Taxing the wealthy seems like a equitable way to dispurse wealth, to keep the state workers employed … and, further, the Bible talks about protecting the poor, elderly and those in dispare. 

    Are you a compassionate conservative?  Or, are you not Christian?

  98. Why don’t you run for Governor, George?  You seem to know exactly how to cut all the needed things?  Cutting taxes will not help any social programs.

  100. Again, I support the free market, I support an economy that empowers people to reach their dreams, the capitalist system.

    The government is not in the business of “dispursing wealth” that is a socialist system.  You have an ally in Marx.  I have an ally in 99% of Americans, including John Hickenlooper and Marc Holtzman, now that’s quite a spectrum.  A real liberal all the way to a real conservative, where does that place you???

  101. George –

    You did not answer my question.  Do you believe in what Jesus said and are you Christian?  Do you go to church on Sunday and help those who are worse off than you?  Are you a compassionate conservative?

  103. Well, you heard it here first, quasi-anonymous blogger George is running for Governor?  Will you be my campaign manager?

    We’d make quite a team – the American and the Socialist.

  105. George –

    What would Jesus say about protecting the “free market system” when people are starving or left homeless because you decided to not protect the jobs of those in State workers, placing them into the unemployment lines?

  112. Have left?  You got to be kidding!  My point of view is just as valuable as yours, as CUBA’s, or Peter’s.  We’ll c who wins November 1st.  I bet more than 50% of people will vot yes.  There are some sane people left, trust me.

  114. It will be a lively debate to be sure.

    In the end, I don’t see the hard-working people of this state voting for the government to take more money out of their pockets.  Money that could be spent to stimulate the economy and take care of their families.  Especially, when some fat cat bureaucrats are living the high-life on piles of wasteful spending.

  115. Look people … I am not religious at all.  I don’t believe in God or Jesus or whatever, but I feel compassionate to people in need.  Our state should assist those people in need.

  117. George –

    It is ungodly to not protect everyone … the world would become a horrible place without such a design … do you understand that our country would fail with your suggested absolutist theory? 

    It is like Nazism, whereby, you just simply don’t care for the poor or a certain group of people, then you decide that you cannot care for them … extinguish their voices … take their happiness away from them … humanity is lost, war becomes the successor … evil takes over, and the Devil wins.

    Do you understand this George?

  118. Peter – do you support the culture of life?

    The only way to secure the peace, is to win the war on terror.  It is a challenging time, but we are making progress.

  119. Closing down the freaking state won’t help.  How will you drive on I-70 when CDOT is closed down and a rock slide in covering it up?  Will George and his buddies go and clean up I-70??!!  Maybe GOD will clean it up for ya, George?

  120. George –

    I support what Jesus supported … I protect life by giving of my life to others … as much as I can.  For many, the rich, they decide to be unkind, insenstive to those who are poor, these people take more than they should, then you force them with laws … they are taxed to keep others from dying or struggling to the point where they lose everything …

    Are you willing to allow the decisions of our current President to cost the lives of people in your community, because you fear asking the wealthy to help the poor and middle class when the country is in crisis?  All becasue of a unjust war that our President has created?

  121. Peter brought religion into this debate, with much reverance for his own purity.  Yet, he refuses to answer whether or not he supports the culture of life?  Interesting.

    We’re not talking about closing down the state.  We’re talking about saving it.  Choice one…raise taxes and feed the fat cat bureaucrats.  Choice two…root out wasteful spending, keep more money for your hard-working family.

  123. Peter forgets the awful day that we were attacked.  The threat is very real.  This was not a war of choice, the war on terror is something we must win to survive.

  124. George –

    I support what Jesus supported … I protect life by giving of my life to others … as much as I can.  For many, the rich, they decide to be unkind, insenstive to those who are poor, these people take more than they should, then you force them with laws … they are taxed to keep others from dying or struggling to the point where they lose everything …

    Are you willing to allow the decisions of our current President to cost the lives of people in your community, because you fear asking the wealthy to help the poor and middle class when the country is in crisis?  All becasue of a unjust war that our President has created?

  125. You know Peter.  We know all about your group.  Bottom line, we’re keeping tabs and you have no chance.  socialists.

    remember, if you make one misstep, you’re going to jail.

  133. George –

    You’re scary to America!  Please get on a plane and move to Russia, I am sure that they will love you there … they will take your right of Freedom of Speech away from you there … and, they will put you into jail fellow.  🙂

    GOOD LUCK

  136. Disagree with a Democrat (or a Socialist) and within thirty minutes they are calling you a fascist.  Those great moveon.org ads made a similar comparison, I think the studies should those moved at least four points over to the president.

  138. We’re so almost done Peter, that we control all three branches of government.  We’re outraising Democrats by at least four to one.

    It is the insane anti-American socialist poilicies of the Democrats that have turned off voters. 

    We are a natural governing majority and you better get used to it.

  142. One –

    We need a Christian Born Again life to Christ … the Republicans are trying to destroy the country … it is obvious … and, they will lose.

  149. Enough –

    This is America … I have my Freedom of Speech.  I think we should ban you from making further statements about taking away my Freedom, suggesting taking away my rights of Liberty.

  151. George –

    You had already asked that same question several times and I answered you, “I support what Jesus supported … I protect life by giving of my life to others … as much as I can.”

  152. Now…lesson here Peter…wasn’t that annoying…hearing the same random question over and over, with a little rhetoric here and a radical accusation there.  That’s how you sound all the time!!!!  It’s so annoying!!!!

    It isn’t your fault, that’s the tone of your party right now.  It was just a demonstration of why your party keeps on losing election after election.

  153. George –

    Seek that Jesus will come into your life and heart … you may not know him, but he does know you.  No matter what problems you might have in life, he will love you. 

    You may not be ready for him to enter into your life, but he is patient … go to a church somewhere in your community, find those who know his love.

  155. Wow George and Peter…why don’t you guys just make a bet like Keith and I and then start acting like adults.

    I know Keith is a good guy, We just disagree and this is alright.

    I have question for all those anti-Colorado Economic Recovery Act people that are business owners – when times are tough you tighten the belt but when times get good don’t you go out a invest for the future?  What would happened to your business if you never invested for the future growth of your business?  Who other business that had made wise investments over take you?

    Now think about your own country and state.

    Check out what another somewhat successful business owner had to say about education in America.

    http://www.microsoft.com/billgates/speeches/2005/07-18FacultySummit.asp

    Just something to think about.

  156. “Jesus said to give to the poor … taking from the rich. Do you understand this?”

    Peter, please tell me what verse in the Bible says this? 

    “Taxes are necessary to disperse the money that the wealthy have … providing support for the poor.”

    Peter, if this is true, why didn’t the founding fathers put this into the constitution?

    “The Bush tax cut proved to not help our economy. We have been cutting taxes for decades. At some point, if you cut needed programs, you will lose jobs and create hardships.”

    Peter, can you name one country that has sucessfully taxed itself into prosperity?

    “I have also seen the people that are turned away … that truly need the help. And, their are people who are wealthy, that are unwilling to give to charity … thus, the only other way to get that support is to tax them.”

    Peter, what law gives you the right to decide how much a wealthy person should give to charity?  Have you donated your car to charity and started biking? Wouldn’t a person making $10,000 a year consider you wealthy and thus need to pay higher taxes?

    What would Jesus say about protecting the “free market system” when people are starving or left homeless because you decided to not protect the jobs of those in State workers, placing them into the unemployment lines?

    Peter, do you know what Jesus would say?  He would say that it isn’t the government’s job to take care of the poor and starving, it is the Church’s job.  Unfortunately the government has taken that job away from the church and the church has let it.  Who do you think did more for the poor in say Calcutta?  The government or Mother Theresa and the church?

    ” You promote taking jobs away … that is not compassionate.”

    Peter, what is compassionate?  When the automobile was invented thousands lost their jobs because they were no longer needed to make buggies, horseshoes, and the like.  Would you suggest that the government keep people in those jobs because it would be compassionate?

    Finally Peter, I leave you with the following “Even the Devil can quote scripture to suit his purposes.”

  157. Peter,
    “Taxes are necessary to disperse the money that the wealthy have”
    If you tell the average person that they are working so that their wages get distributed, you remove the incentive to do better and to do more. It didn’t work for Marx nor Stalin and I sure hope it’s never tried here. Maybe you should move to Cuba and see how well that works. Oh, and take CUBA with you.

  158. Here is an idea… how about a new sensical policy that says very plainly… “If you can’t afford to take care of your kids without welfare type prgrams… stop having them!”

    Think of all the money the state and the people would save if there was accountability by the individual citizens for their lifestyle choices.

  159. Funny how all the anti-C&Der’s say government has no role in helping the poor, it should be a private sector thing.  Colorado is near the bottom in both private giving and volunteerism–the worst west of the Mississippi.  (And you can’t blame it on our current very low tax rates.)

    By the way, those of you who say roads are the only government service you use on a daily basis must be kidding. 

    Do you think you don’t benefit every day from police, prisons and utilities?

    If you don’t want to be taxed, move to Alaska or a Montana cabin like the unabomer.

  162. Wow, go away for an afternoon and all kinds of oddities pop up.

    Keith – you suggest driving a toll road every day; if I drove E-470 for approximately the same distance I normally drive every day, I would be paying $1750 dollars every year.  That was almost my total tax bill last year.

    CoTaxPayer – in a singular fit of misinformation, you state several really outrageous claims in one post…  First, how many people do you know that got their $35 Microsoft overcharge refund?  I just posted Bill Gates’ opinion on C&D above…  Second, TABOR does not allow for a government surplus, so it couldn’t have given us one.  Third, you state that “beaurocrats” want their raises; so ask yourself just why it is that the State had to add in $17 million in raised just to get State workers up to the level of their private-sector counterparts…

    George – I’m not going to re-re-hash your 9/11 changed everything attitude, but I will address the waste issue.  TABOR has forced the State government to reduce waste since its passage in 1992.  Dan’s story about prisons, CUBAs about social services, and the following show just where we are in reality:  a friend of mine works with the State water board; because of severe cutbacks, she now has to cover the former territories of three inspectors – she is working late nights every day just driving to inspections.  We still have waste; any and every organization has waste.  But the low-hanging fruit is gone in the State level.

    Finally, it’s just amazing how much the GOP crowd was screaming for the extradition of Gomez-Garcia just a month ago; now they want to ship all the jailed immigrants back to Mexico.

  164. Get Real says: Here is an idea… how about a new sensical policy that says very plainly… “If you can’t afford to take care of your kids without welfare type prgrams… stop having them!”  Agreed, but unfortunately, the conservative religious types are against proper sex education and contraceptives that would help that situation.  They won’t teach their children at home, and won’t let public schools do it, either; then they try to outlaw contraceptives that some of the kids won’t use anyway because it’s against their religious beliefs.  And you wonder why some of these people wind up with 12 kids on Welfare?

    Quoth Jonathan, “Even the Devil can quote scripture to suit his purposes.”  Yeah – I see it every day coming out of the mouths of Televangelicals and Presidents.

  165. Let me correct myself: the E-470 bill only covers the distance I travel on major highways once I reach the Plains.  Since I live in the mountains, you can add an extra $800 to that, and then add in whatever the local road authorities would charge for me to reach my place of work from the highway, and for me to reach my home from the other end…

  166. “Keith – you suggest driving a toll road every day; if I drove E-470 for approximately the same distance I normally drive every day, I would be paying $1750 dollars every year. That was almost my total tax bill last year.”

    Phoenix, that is a straight up bald face lie. I have never made such a suggestion. I suggest work from home and limit driving.

    You aren’t to good at making assumptions.

  167. Here again Phoenix lets his true colors fly:

    “the conservative religious types are against proper sex education and contraceptives that would help that situation.”

    The only proper method is his method, the liberal method, which equates teens to monkeys when it comes to sex.  The “You can’t stop them” has really worked so far, especially in inner city minority schools.  Way to go Phoenix, stick your head in the ground when someone suggests a different teaching method.

  168. Would it be possible to set up a permanent thread for “debating” the merits of C&D – and ban such discussions from the rest of this website?

  169. Oops – misremembered the poster.  I take it back – you didn’t suggest it.  Sorry, when there are over 200 posts in a day over several threads not well-seperated, I don’t have time to re-read them all.

    To correct myself, peterisacommunist stated he would take toll roads if they were offered; I will submit the above as a reason why toll roads aren’t the solution.

  170. Hey, I’d be perfectly happy if people of all stripes were to actually give their children good sex ed.  My way isn’t the only way – note that I pointed out several shortcomings before I finally arrived at contraceptives…

    Get Real suggested that people “just stop having kids” if they can’t afford them.  I’ve known too many people who just can’t fathom that whole “stop having them” thing because of their upbringing.

    Finally,no-one suggested a different teaching method for me to argue against.  But if someone were to argue for abstinence-only education, I’d point out that it hasn’t proven effective in the real world…

    And, to call it the “liberal” method once again shows you’re not willing to discuss things in a non-partisan manner, but rather need to rebut your debate opponent and his views by ad hominem attacks.

  171. No kidding? I think it?s self-evident at this point that FAR too many of us are willing to slander individuals, especially on partisan grounds, than to intelligently debate ideas/issues.

  173. Oh?  That’s interesting – I don’t recall making much in the way of ad hominem statements here…  I think the closest I came was pulling someone’s quote about beer out and saying in jest that I thought they’d had too much…  Or were you referring to my blunt statement of fact that Bush is dishonest?

    I may be vocal, outspoken, and even indignant, but I try very hard not to respond with a simple label.  I am tired of hearing the world “liberal” misapplied as a derrogatory dismissive; the way it is being used by the right-wing in this country today is no better than cleverly-packaged hate in order to further an agenda of power.

  174. “You folks are bringing out the worst in me today; I just don’t understand the whole Religious Right take on Christianity” 

    I believe that it was ou who said this, correct? How is this any different than me saying that you method is the liberal method?  you make an assumption that everyone on the right is a Christian, you assume that everyone on the right is very religious.  you make an attack because of what I am instead of sticking to the issue.

  176. Fuzzy math or not, no one has yet faced the key question behind Referendum C & D.  What is being done to change the attitude of local government so that it stops acting like a teenager in party mode.  ?Dad, can you loan me $20.00??  Every parent knows it?s not a loan. The real is issue is not about Democrats or Republicans, it?s about fiscal responsibility and providing real, valuable, measurable public service.  I don?t think anyone is against better healthcare, schools, roads or making sure that the police and firemen have a retirement plan that is fully funded.

    Referendum C & D lacks specifics on how the money would be spent. Which roads will be fixed for how much?  How about the pothole on my street? Which schools will be improved, by how much?  Does anybody know?  What, in business terms, is the return on investment?  What are the specific investments?

    If I get my tax money back I know what I would do with it.  I would use it to make sure that my family?s future is secure.  Do the supporters of Referendum C & D have a similar goal that is understandable, personal, and measurable?  I think not.  It is far too easy to deal in generalities and grand vistas, rather than real, verifiable facts. 

    When a customer is unhappy with a retail store, they can vote with their feet by not going back.  Everybody knows good service when they get it and they gladly return to that store because they expect to receive value and good service.  Sadly, government does not provide the same choice to the consumer.  The only choice we have is to vote against poorly thought out initiatives like Referendum C&D.

    TABOR and its stepchildren are a strong statement that the public is dissatisfied with their local government.  These laws underscore a significant lack of trust that we have in our government ? especially our elected officials.

    What can be done other than continuing the adolescent name-calling?  Stop assuming that there is always going to more money available and don?t promise what you can?t deliver.  Provide a permanent fix for public sector retirement programs ? something like 401K plans are an option, which is what most citizens have available to them.  Ask for one year of funding at a time and provide a list of location/facility specific proposals that have a measurable outcome for public improvement projects. Report back at the end of the year on how well each project met its goals. Treat each citizen as a customer; after all they make your job possible.  Develop a plan to measure and report on customer satisfaction.  Hold all public employees and elected officials accountable to meet customer satisfaction goals.  Work every day to rebuild the trust of each citizen in local government.

    Putting the value and service back in public service would get my vote.

  177. Fuzzy math or not, no one has yet faced the key question behind Referendum C & D.  What is being done to change the attitude of local government so that it stops acting like a teenager in party mode.  ?Dad, can you loan me $20.00??  Every parent knows it?s not a loan. The real is issue is not about Democrats or Republicans, it?s about fiscal responsibility and providing real, valuable, measurable public service.  I don?t think anyone is against better healthcare, schools, roads or making sure that the police and firemen have a retirement plan that is fully funded.

    Referendum C & D lacks specifics on how the money would be spent. Which roads will be fixed for how much?  How about the pothole on my street? Which schools will be improved, by how much?  Does anybody know?  What, in business terms, is the return on investment?  What are the specific investments?

    If I get my tax money back I know what I would do with it.  I would use it to make sure that my family?s future is secure.  Do the supporters of Referendum C & D have a similar goal that is understandable, personal, and measurable?  I think not.  It is far too easy to deal in generalities and grand vistas, rather than real, verifiable facts. 

    When a customer is unhappy with a retail store, they can vote with their feet by not going back.  Everybody knows good service when they get it and they gladly return to that store because they expect to receive value and good service.  Sadly, government does not provide the same choice to the consumer.  The only choice we have is to vote against poorly thought out initiatives like Referendum C&D.

    TABOR and its stepchildren are a strong statement that the public is dissatisfied with their local government.  These laws underscore a significant lack of trust that we have in our government ? especially our elected officials.

    What can be done other than continuing the adolescent name-calling?  Stop assuming that there is always going to more money available and don?t promise what you can?t deliver.  Provide a permanent fix for public sector retirement programs ? something like 401K plans are an option, which is what most citizens have available to them.  Ask for one year of funding at a time and provide a list of location/facility specific proposals that have a measurable outcome for public improvement projects. Report back at the end of the year on how well each project met its goals. Treat each citizen as a customer; after all they make your job possible.  Develop a plan to measure and report on customer satisfaction.  Hold all public employees and elected officials accountable to meet customer satisfaction goals.  Work every day to rebuild the trust of each citizen in local government.

    Putting the value and service back in public service would get my vote.

  178. Fuzzy math or not, no one has yet faced the key question behind Referendum C & D.  What is being done to change the attitude of local government so that it stops acting like a teenager in party mode.  ?Dad, can you loan me $20.00??  Every parent knows it?s not a loan. The real is issue is not about Democrats or Republicans, it?s about fiscal responsibility and providing real, valuable, measurable public service.  I don?t think anyone is against better healthcare, schools, roads or making sure that the police and firemen have a retirement plan that is fully funded.

    Referendum C & D lacks specifics on how the money would be spent. Which roads will be fixed for how much?  How about the pothole on my street? Which schools will be improved, by how much?  Does anybody know?  What, in business terms, is the return on investment?  What are the specific investments?

    If I get my tax money back I know what I would do with it.  I would use it to make sure that my family?s future is secure.  Do the supporters of Referendum C & D have a similar goal that is understandable, personal, and measurable?  I think not.  It is far too easy to deal in generalities and grand vistas, rather than real, verifiable facts. 

    When a customer is unhappy with a retail store, they can vote with their feet by not going back.  Everybody knows good service when they get it and they gladly return to that store because they expect to receive value and good service.  Sadly, government does not provide the same choice to the consumer.  The only choice we have is to vote against poorly thought out initiatives like Referendum C&D.

    TABOR and its stepchildren are a strong statement that the public is dissatisfied with their local government.  These laws underscore a significant lack of trust that we have in our government ? especially our elected officials.

    What can be done other than continuing the adolescent name-calling?  Stop assuming that there is always going to more money available and don?t promise what you can?t deliver.  Provide a permanent fix for public sector retirement programs ? something like 401K plans are an option, which is what most citizens have available to them.  Ask for one year of funding at a time and provide a list of location/facility specific proposals that have a measurable outcome for public improvement projects. Report back at the end of the year on how well each project met its goals. Treat each citizen as a customer; after all they make your job possible.  Develop a plan to measure and report on customer satisfaction.  Hold all public employees and elected officials accountable to meet customer satisfaction goals.  Work every day to rebuild the trust of each citizen in local government.

    Putting the value and service back in public service would get my vote.

  179. I am only able to read comments to Aug 20th so I don’t know how this will fit in……

    Seems that roads, education, and health care are worthwhile investments. Especially when compared to the 21st century/Republican/big corporation/big money/big corruption abyss.

    And….I knew Bill Ritter in high school, he was the Captain of our footbal team. We were not a winning team due to being a new school without many seniors…but our Captain was great!

    Go Bill!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    He needs your support. You know the opposition gets up early in the morning configuring ways to take your money and give it to the rich, priviledged and well connected.

  182. Delta County's Rep. Matt Soper Opposes Birthright Citizenship
    by: Owen Swallow 12/12/2024
  183. So You Like Meat, Do You? Ready To Slaughter It Yourself?
    by: Colorado Pols 12/11/2024
    184. SEE MORE

    Posts about

    Rep. Lauren Boebert
    SEE MORE

    Posts about

    Rep. Yadira Caraveo
    SEE MORE

    Posts about

    Colorado House
    SEE MORE

    Posts about

    Colorado Senate
    SEE MORE

    399 readers online now

Newsletter

Subscribe to our monthly newsletter to stay in the loop with regular updates!