President (To Win Colorado)
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(D) Kamala Harris
(R) Donald Trump
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20%
CO-01 (Denver)
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(D) Diana DeGette*
(R) V. Archuleta
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CO-02 (Boulder-ish)
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(D) Joe Neguse*
(R) Marshall Dawson
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CO-03 (West & Southern CO)
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(R) Jeff Hurd
(D) Adam Frisch
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48%
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(R) Lauren Boebert
(D) Trisha Calvarese
90%
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CO-05 (Colorado Springs)
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(R) Jeff Crank
(D) River Gassen
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CO-06 (Aurora)
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(D) Jason Crow*
(R) John Fabbricatore
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CO-07 (Jefferson County)
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(D) B. Pettersen
(R) Sergei Matveyuk
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(D) Yadira Caraveo
(R) Gabe Evans
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DEMOCRATS
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February 18, 2016 04:37 PM UTC
46 Comments
There is a downside to this bill – if passed, it would drive many small liquor stores out of business.
It would also put young grocery checkers ( my rural grocery store employs many high school students) in the business of selling liquor to adults and peers. See KeepColoradoLocal for a different perspective.
The initiative versions here and here both require that sales only be made by someone 21+. If those stores want to sell malt or vinous liquors, they'll make sure a checker of appropriate age is always on duty.
It's a little hard for me to get worked up over this, as I spent most of my life living in states where grocery stores sell beer, wine, and spirits. There was no shortage of corner and specialty liquor stores, although my experience was an urban/suburban one rather than a rural one.
It’s also worth noting that these sales already occur in Colorado. The only caveat being that any given “ownership” can have sales at a single store in the state (mostly Denver).
I live near the Littleton Safeway that has a fulll on site liquor store with plenty of local micro brew and even Colorado wine selections and it works fine. They stick to the requirements like glue. ID everyone even if you look 75. I also live near a few small liquor stores which I never used anyway because they have very limited selections. Hardly meccas for local brews. More oriented toward dull wine and Bud Lite.
My Safeway is in competition with large liquor stores because it was built to have a large liquor dept on site. Most existing stores adding liquor would only have so much shelf space and would be more of a convenience for basics, not in competition with larger liquor stores that offer a full selection. This is what I grew up with in the Chicago area and liquor stores did just fine while you could quickly pick up something from the more limited selection at the supermarket
There is no reason to believe under agers would have better luck getting a checker they know to sell to them than they currently have at small or large liquor stores. In fact the big corporate Super markets stores are, if anything, more likely to be super stringent, the smaller groceries no less so.
Like SCat I have trouble getting worked up about this one way or the other but if it's on the ballot I'll vote in support.
I guess “liquor” is a misnomer since this is abut beer and wine but in the Chicago area there was hard stuff available, too. And liquor stores still thrived because if you were looking for something specific you're best bet was still a liquor store, not a liquor secton of an aisle.
I believe your Safeway is the one store from that chain that is approved for selling liquor, under current state law. I don't know where King Soopers' one store is located.
Correct. I believe the KS is in Glendale.
King Soopers' and Target's are both in Glendale. A ridiculous sales tax coup for the postage stamp sized city (I've talked with the city manager about it).
Grocery stores already sell 3.2 beer, so not sure what the difference would be in terms of checkers. And the 3.2 beer thing is just dumb. It's a relic of Prohibition and liquor stores in the vast majority of other states do perfectly fine with groceries selling full-strength beer so I don't see why it's a big deal.
I will vote against this. Our 2 liquor stores in our county support local events. Our local Safeway can't keep fresh produce in stock. They can't handle any more complexity
How do you compete against the big name brewers, who are now entering into the "craft" brewing market? Their reps come in to the chain supermarket and say "we need more shelf frontage…" The manager almost invariably says "sure, we'll simply shrink this other section a bit", unless there's another powerful competing interest. This is so common an occurrence in most stores with other product lines that I can't believe it isn't a major argument against this (IMHO) poorly conceived measure.
Colorado currently hosts the largest liquor stores in the country, often with incredible selection. But their market would be undercut if their most popular items are available everywhere. Overall, our access to the best selections would go down because these stores lose their volume sales and can't support the smaller volume products as well.
"often with incredible selection……." Yeah, I experienced that a couple years ago when I had a sudden craving for a 6-pack of Tusker beer. Went to one of the big local, Denver-area, stores. They had it all right; back in the back with a layer of dust on the bottles and mold growing inside the bottles on top of the beer.
(Tusker ?? brewed in Kenya)
BTW – a bit of a disclaimer noting that a front-page diary is written by an initiative's campaign might be in order, Guvs. This isn't written by St. Patrick's Brewing Company, no matter what the diary title might lead you toward.
The way I see it, this initiative, if it passes, will greatly increase the number of beer brands available for Bronco's quarterbacks to pimp …
60% of Denver Business Journal readers are skeptical about this initiative. Business Pulse poll.
Groceries would primarily carry more manufactured beer (my primary beverage after water and coffee). They will campaign on 'convenience'. Much, much more to life than convenience. Our 2 liquor stores probably carry 75 craft beers and our brewpub makes 6-8 available by the glass or growler.
I think I am against it. There are a number of small liquor stores in Grand Junction that will disappear if this passes. The store I frequent is run by an ebullient young man who greets me by name, tells me about special and new items, gives me deals, and generally is just a friendly moment in a busy day, whenever I stop in.
I will not be happy to see him close his store and go away because InBev needs to increase their market share by a percentage point..
I'm not sure the "it'll put liquor stores out of business" argument passes muster. You'll still have to go to the liquor store to get hard booze, and if you want more availability of more craft options, you'll still go to the liquor store.
What am I missing?
You’re missing all the Budweiser sales. Whatever the advantages of carrying craft beers, a significant part of every liquor store sales are standard American lagers. Take those away and these small businesses have a big hole in their bottom line.
By the way, and I got this from the tour guide at Budweiser, Ft. Collins, Bud Light is always 3.2. It depends on how they measure alcohol content, either by weight or volume. In one method (I forget which) alcohol percentage is 4%, the other method produces 3.2%. Pretty neat huh
The thing is, to break into the grocery store shelves you need to provide a certain amount of sales for that shelf space. Otherwise, it just doesn't make sense for the store to carry it. It seems to me that the craft beer industry is at least helped by not having to compete for shelf space in high competition stores. You can make the case that other states' craft industries have expanded in California, Washington, etc. But when I moved here over 10 years ago from California I found the liquor stores here had more selection than even the largest stores in Cali.
So, CHB, you dug up a skanky 6 pack of Tusker at a liquor store. Do you think you would have had any better luck in a grocery store if this law passes? Tell you what, next time I'm in Phoenix I'll make a point to look for it and report back. Any bets?
You missed my point. The selection at the monster sized liquor stores here in metro Denver isn't what is advertised. It can be difficult to find decent foreign beers here (another example: take a look for Pacena and let me know what you find).
Basically, this initiative is the free market in action. Yeah, some small liquor stores may go out of business. Small liquor stores in Grand Junction; for example; may go away. Wonder how many buggy whip manufacturers still exist in Grand Junction; and in the more rural counties? More likely, the small stores might actually have to compete for business.
I"m with Duke on this one.
As for CHB, I guess he has no problem with small liquor stores in rural areas going out of business all for the sake of city types who put their own convenience above all else.
Who needs small local businesses when we can send our hard-earned dollars to Arkansas, Ohio, Belgium and Canada instead!
Really Gertie, really? Shouldn't consumers have some amount of choice no matter where they live? I think the small rural towns have had far more to worry about, in terms of retail sales, than who is able to sell booze.
Any thoughts about Walmart, Target; few years ago K-Mart; going into small towns and the impact on small, downtown based, businesses? Montrose is a good example with downtown businesses having to scramble when the big boxes started opening up, 20+ years ago, at the south end of town on Townsend Ave.
Walmart is closing hundreds of stores around the nation. In many cases the super centers they opened drove out smaller grocers. Now as they close, they are creating vast new expanses of 'food deserts.' One thing we rural Coloradans have to deal with is an urban population that decides from 300 miles away what is best for our communities. We're with Gertie. Supporting local businesses keep rural communities in place.
Markets don't exist by themselves. They depend on the structure of regulations, monetary policy and contracts imposed on them by society. Right now we have a structure that defines two separate markets, local liquor stores and grocery stores. Within each existing structure we have a free market.
This initiative attempts to combine the two markets into one. We, as a political body, have the duty to decide if this is a good thing or not. As such, the fate of liquor stores in Grand Junction is one of the factors that need to be considered. Right now, and under current rules, they are competing in their own free market.
In addition to these concerns are the ones opening the liquor store market to monopolies (InBev, Thanks PK) and major grocery chains.
It seems to me that combining these two markets only benefits the larger businesses. I don't see any reciprocal advantage of opening the grocery store market to the liquor stores.
We can discuss the advantages and disadvantages of this initiative, but the argument by labeling of "free markets" is just ideological claptrap.
If consumers don't save time or money by buying at a grocery store, they wouldn't do so. Why not outlaw potatoe chip sales at gas stations to protect convenience stores. Far from being claptrap, freer markets and more consumer choice vs protecting special interests is what this fightbis about. The fact that the special interests runnung liquor stores may be smaller than the special innterests runnung groceries stores doesn't mean they represent the public interest.
One of the arguments in favor of keeping the current system is that it supports the craft beer industry in Colorado. Certainly this is essentially a subsidy to this industry, but we, as a political body, subsidize all sorts of things that we consider good for our society (see the interest deduction for your home loan).
As for "freer markets", is your choice really enhanced by only being able to buy from InBev?
I don't think you're correct in saying that only InBev will sell product in grocery stores if a ballot initiative passes.
And mention of interest deduction for home loans is not relevant to the thread.
OK, I'm not familiar enough with grocery store buying policies to assert that they all buy from the same wholesaler. But, for example, I see the same guy restocking the chip aisle at the local Safeway.
My point was that the two market system we have now undoubtedly allows the liquor stores to charge higher prices than if they had to compete with grocery stores too. My assertion is that this "pad" was and is useful to craft brewers because they don't have to support the level of sales that would otherwise be required. Hence, my labeling of this system as a subsidy.
Big Grocery sells shelves to distributors, ie. InBev, and the distributor controls what is on the shelf. That is why you see the same chip guy stocking the chips. That is his companies leased space and they control it. InBev will undoubtedly stock Breckenridge and other Big Beer owned 'microbrews,' mass-produced ciders with homey marketing pitches. This is not about more choice for consumers, it is about helping corporations capture more market share.
There will always be more choice at big liquor stores than on single or partial supermarket aisles. It's about convenience and won't hurt the big liquor stores or cool smaller specialty liquor stores that provide more choice and smaller brands.
As for the handful of large supermarket liquor stores like the one at Safeway in Littleton, all I know is that particular store offers several smaller and local to Colorado products. It's pretty much like any other good size quality liquor store.
There's a stand alone family owned liquor store I could walk to but it has nothing interesting, just big commercial brands. So I don't quite get the romance with small family owned liquor stores. I don't know about out in the rural and mountain towns or in Denver proper but the small ones in the south 'burbs either suck compared to the bigger stores or are ridiculously over-priced boutique type stores. I love my Safeway liquor store.
Thank you, thank you, thank you for putting the bayonet of government at my neck and forcing me to buy from your special interest supplier because if allowed free choice I am obviously too stupid to choose wisely. Next, let's outlaw abortion.
Actually, headbanger, the buggy whip business seems to be doing fine. There is a store called the Crypt on South Broadway that sells lots of buggy whips and riding crops. I was surprised to find so much equine oriented business in Denver.
The Crypt was shut down for failure to pay taxes.
Uh, or so a friend told me. A friend…yes…
Tell your friend to visit Murdoch’s in the event of any future equine supply needs …
Alcolhol weighs 70 pct as much as water, the chief ingredient of beer. 3.2 beer is by weight. So called 6 pct is by volume, whih is 4.2 pct by weight. Light beers are watered down and thus actually fall under 3.2. The bud light peyton pimps is the same whether you buy it atSafeway or a liquor store. I like wine for dinner and will vote for the convenience of buying it at King Soopders. But I live close to Argonaut and get boxed wine there that is inexpensive and good and in practice will probably go on buying it there.
I didn't know we were such close neighbors, V, I'm in West Wash Park. I don't understand why this is such a big issue. It made sense when we had the 18/21 split in our liquor laws, but now that it's all 21+, I see no reason why groceries can't sell wine and liquor. It seems to me that grocery stores will load up on big brands and free up shelf space at liquor stores to carry all of those smaller craft brands.It seems like it would actually help the little guys not to have to compete with Miller-Coors and Anheuser-Busch.
Maybe we could get together for the proverbial beer, not skinny?
Anytime, V. Do you have Mama J's Facebook? She knows me and can put us in touch.
All your bases (and store shelves) belong to InBev.
Hey if Kroger, Inc and Walmart back it, and the vast majority Colorado-based local brewers, Mom and Pop stores, Wineries, and boutique distilleries oppose it, must be good for Colorado!
1. We should protect all the small, poorly run liquor stores against fair competition.
2. We should require motor fuel to be pumped by an attendant as it is too dangerous for consumers to handle.
3. We should require a man carrying a red flag to walk in front of a automobile to warn pedestrians and people riding horses.
4. We should forbid margarine from being colored yellow to protect our dairy farmers butter business.
I can only, again, speak from my experience, but I've not had the one many of you describe. My first craft beer was made by the Slo Brewing Company, purchased in the early '90s from the beer cave at a Vons (think Safeway-style chain). It was one of many they carried.
More recently, I was out visiting my wife's family in Redding, CA– "the" big California city north of Sacramento (pop. about 90,000)– last Thanksgiving. I went shopping at Holiday Market, a dozen-store northern California chain. I've included links to pics of just the craft beer section of their store below. A selection like this isn't unusual in grocery stores. When it came time to go out and grab beer and wine? Headed out to a largish liquor store because I knew they had a better selection. I'm not unique in that approach. Grocery store sales, among those folks I interacted with, were largely "convenience" sales. I needed rum for bananas foster? Dropped a fifth of bacardi in the cart along with the rest of the ingredients. Needed rum for Mojitos? Got something nicer at a liquor store, which had a larger selection or someone who could recommend something.
Do I think stores will close? Probably. Especially those that are next to grocery stores and acting as their surrogate liquor department rather than being differentiated by selection or quality. Might things go differently here? I don't know.
In my experience most liquor stores are run by small business men who rage against government regulation except, of course, for the government sanctionned monopolies that protecct thm. Everyone likes free markets as a consumer. Everyone wants socialism in the form of government protection as a producer. Well, we are all a little inconsistent. Go Broncos ride your tax subsidies to another socialized super bowl so your owners and stars can support rightwing politics.
Since I'm not a huge craft beer aficionado (I do like an occasional Fat Tire or Blue Moon, but not sure they qualify anymore), my perspective is based on the experiences I've had in my neighborhood.
Of the three closest liquor stores where I live, two are shabby old stores with dingy interiors and average selections. The third is walkable from my apartment, and run by a nice old gentleman who apologizes every time I ask for our favorite bottle of wine, but he is out of stock (again). I bought a moderately priced bottle of red wine from him that was vintage 2004, so I thought it might be pretty good. When I opened it, it had turned to vinegar.
Sorry if I sound like a snob, but I prefer to shop at the King Soopers in Cherry Creek, and even the Target next to it has a nice selection. If the cashier is under age, they simply call a supervisor over to check me out.
I've made purchases when traveling in some of the crappy stores in Big cities. But, man, this discussion makes me really glad not to live in a big city. I'd like mine to be twice as big though.
I purposely alternate between our 2 local liquor stores and pay $9.85 or so/six pack.
I go to Argonaut and get 30 cans of kinds-union made Pabst Blue Ribbon for $16. Two kids in college makes me watch the budget. PBR used to carry a union label but now it is sort of hit or miss since the PBR brewery was bought and closed. Now it is kind of farmed out. Labor movement continues to lose ground.
should have said "kind of Union made Pabst Blue Ribbon.