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November 17, 2008 04:45 PM UTC

Monday Open Thread

  • 74 Comments
  • by: Colorado Pols

“Cunning and treachery are the offspring of incapacity.”

–Francois de la Rochefoucauld

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74 thoughts on “Monday Open Thread”

  1. This looks interesting…I wonder if they voted too?

    http://www.thedenverchannel.co…

    An tax scam in Weld County has launched a sweeping investigation authorities say could yield 1,300 arrests over the next year.

    Ken Buck says authorities have traced some $2.6 million in payments by the IRS to phony Social Security numbers.

    The probe started after a Texas man discovered someone in northern Colorado was using his Social Security number to get IRS refunds.

    Weld authorities defend the probe, which they’ve dubbed Operation Number Games. They say tax fraud is the target, not immigrants.

    “If you break the law, you pay the consequences,” said Greeley Mayor Ed Clark, a noted juvenile policing expert.

    Already at least 15 people in Weld County have been arrested in Operation Number Games. Authorities said arrests would continue through the weekend and likely into 2009, with up to 1,300 arrests possible.

              1. I believe the Mayor gave his quote to the Greeley Trib, the post is based on publicly know facts.

                Noted juvenile policing expert … I just couldn’t resist.  

                1. Noted juvenile policing expert … I just couldn’t resist.  

                  The bolded part is what I am referring to. I tend to find an unusual when someone directly quotes and reprints an article but then changes it by adding additional commentary. Kind of makes me find anything you quote less believable, including you.  

                  1. That comment was … per Pols ‘out of the park’.

                    Time to move on Middle, it was funny.

                    Unfortunately now you’re just digging a deep bitter hole. Stop digging before you lose your balance and fall in!

                    1. Nah, just truthful. Don’t be so defensive. You got caught changing a story and now you’re backtracking by acting like it was no big deal. Pols thought you were correctly citing the article, which is why we all thought it was funny, until we actually checked your link.

                      You should know better than to pull shit like this.  

                    2. The comment was a hoot! I didn’t know you spoke for Pols?

                      Now what about the real implications here … illegals doing tax returns for IRS refunds. Heck at least they tried to comply with the law on reporting ones income.

                    3. How typical. You can’t engage in actual dialog for more than 2 comments. Pathetic.

                      Cheer up. You got popped for being an embellisher. Just one more thing to add to your resume here.

                    5. What say you about the real story … thousands of tax returns that may not be valid.

                      I say at least they tried to report their income … what say you middle?

                    6. Hell, she now has a democrat representing her congressional district for the first time in decades.  Bitter ? Not so much.

                    8. WhatВґs next? Venti Libertad? Diet Libertad? Libertad with cheese?

                      Are we to be spared nothing?

  2. It was apparently polling well in the week before the election.  So what happened?  Crowded ballot/ballot fatigue?  The wording of the ballot title?  Lost tactical opportunities in the late days?   Poor advertising?   What?  Any evidence?

    [As the National Enquirer says, “Scientists Baffled.”]

    2. People voted no on everything.  In a bad economic time, intiatives that involve money don’t often do well.  Being last on the ballot is never helpful, either.  A lot of polling was messed up, too, because of the number of voters who only cared about the presidential election.

    3. That was the exit data that surprised me the most (having worked with the campaign the past 3 months).

      But yes, I think the “No” on everything fatigue hurt most. A lot of people were afraid that they might vote “Yes” on the wrong thing, and so they hedged their bets.  

    4. I think the biggest wall 59 was up against was the crowded ballot and the massive amount of “Vote No on…” advertising out there.  With voters barraged by Vote No, the few Vote Yes messages were difficult to get through to voters that were largely preoccupied with the bigger races and voting No is often a default reaction.

      The campaign itself also seemed to lack a coherent message.  At different events where there were different speakers on behalf of 59, they seemed mixed on whether the message was the Savings Account for Education or on de-brucing TABOR.  Although I was following this initiative closely, as an independent voter, I didn’t even see any mail or t.v. from them until two weeks after I had received my mail in ballot.  Many people I talked to didn’t know anything about 59 but knew at least the spin and talking points on a lot of the others especially 47, 49 & 54.  I don’t think there was any formal opposition, but I did receive a few mail pieces and a call against it but never anything from the pro-59 campaign. Anybody know who was running the campaign for Romanoff and how much they ended up raising for it? Last time I looked at their filing was just after they got on the ballot and they had spent an awful lot on the signature gathering.  Would have expected a much more effective campaign from him and just seemed like they never got on track and what they did do to campaign for 59 was too little too late.

      One argument I heard against it from people that tend to be pretty centrist/moderate was that they thought that we do need to reform TABOR but that earmarking all of the excess revenues just to education was not the way to do it.  The message of the campaign seemed to be just about education and I don’t think they made the case very well that with all of that money set aside for education, there would be that much more left to deal with highways, healthcare and other things that people want to see Colorado spend more money improving.

      1. The one with the classroom full of students all being taught to love and adore 59 was a little much for me. I think if theyВґd just said what it was for, ВЁFix the problems with the schools that TABOR broke,ВЁ they could have gotten stronger support. Just run a straight anti-TABOR campaign.

        Instead they tried to be sneaky about it, so that a casual observer would never have had any idea what it meant. If I werenВґt involved with this site, I certainly wouldnВґt have known what it was about from the commercials.

        I think it was the same problem 46 had: trying to fool low-information voters with a vague statement on the ballot, which alienates the very people you thought were your supporters.

    6. Things outside of supporters control

      Long Ballot

      Lots of “No” advertizing for other initiatives.

      economic crisis makes people careful about any change.

      Things they could have controlled

      Moved too late.

      Didn’t raise enough money.

      Didn’t court thought leaders in the media to drive message

      got complacent because they thouht it was going to pass basedon limited polling

      messaging was off (the school ad was part of it), even without opposition voters didn’t believe they were being told the whole story.

      1. People not being willing to give any more money to our disastrous public school system, controlled by unions unwilling to honestly reform.

        If someone only paints 30% of each house you hire them to paint, are you going to give them a business loan?

        1. If I agree to paint houses on the condition that you will prime all bare surfaces and you don’t fulfill your end of the deal, where does the responsibility lie for the shoddy paint job?

          (If we’re going to pretend that the issue is black & white, I’m willing to join in the artifice. Plus, analogies are fun!)  

  3. This ad is apparently still running on blogs like Huffington Post, because Republicans have way more money than they know what to do with. If you follow the link, theyВґve apparently changed some of the stuff to ВЁPalin in 2012,” but not all of it. What a bunch of twits.

    God how I hope she runs in 2012…

        1. Maternity wear and aprons. I am not making this up. You need extra support for when youВґre six months pregnant with your fifth child, carrying the roast from the oven to the table.

  4. I need to tell the 527 groups working for me when they can release the negative ad campaign against Danny the Red.

    “Can we trust the front page to a man who so blatantly admits his Communist leanings?”

    1. If youВґve learned anything from the McCain campaign, itВґs that you need to define your opponent negatively before you even know who it is.

      Personally, IВґve heard Danny was involved in this whole financial mess back when Carter first concocted his evil plan to win the 2008 election for Democrats. I donВґt know if Danny personally set the trigger, but can we really afford to take that chance?

      As for redstateblues, I have documentally true information that he was involved in a seedy internet gambling deal with some shady characters.

      Vote Bob Barr!

      2. to the CEA that he agreed with me on what a disaster our schools are and that he “fully supports going to a complete voucher system next year”.

        OK, I totally made that part up, but it’s more credible than McCain’s affair article in the NYT, and they ran it.

        Hey – SXP – here’s a great quote for you –

        Sometimes, when I look at my children, I say to myself, ‘Lillian, you  should have remained a  virgin.’

        -Lillian Carter

        1. I was too young to know much of anything about the Carter presidency (though I do remember it being referenced on Benson reruns). Shame ObamaВґs family is mostly dead; his mother sounds like sheВґd lived an interesting life.

  5. Fellow Business Executives:

    As the CFO of this business that employees 140 people, I have resigned myself to the fact that Barrack Obama is going to be our President, and that our taxes and government fees will increase in a BIG way.

    To compensate for these increases, I figure that the Clients will have to see an increase in our fees to them of about 8%, but since we cannot increase our fees right now due to the dismal state of our economy, we will have to lay off six of our employees instead. This has really been eating at me for awhile, as we believe we are family here and I didn’t know how to choose who will have to go.

    So this is what I did. I strolled thru our parking lot and found 8 Obama bumper stickers on our employees’ cars and have decided these folks will be the first to be laid off. I can’t think of a more fair way to approach this problem. These folks wanted change; I gave it to them.

    If you have a better idea, let me know.

    3. This is what is so amazaing about you right wingers.  Business taxes will not go up. (Although it would be nice to close some loopholes like those “American” businesses offshore.)  

      Under the BO plan, Gecko, YOUR taxes will do DOWN.  If your boss is grossing a quarter mil, his will go up slightly.

      What the fuck is so hard to understand about this?  Oh, that’s right, righties live in their heads, making up facts as they go along.  

        1. OK, let’s play that out. I own some rental properties. One reason I own rental properties is the tax benefits, esp. depreciation. This, I assume, is what you would call a “loophole.” By lower the tax rate to 14%, should I assume that’s 14% on all income? I just did. So, my taxes go to 14% from first dollar of income to last, I lose my home mortgage deduction, I lose my deductions for charitable contributions. My out-of-pocket taxes increase because all my income is taxed at the 14% rate and I’ve lost all my deductions.

          I can’t pass the higher taxes along to my renters, they can’t afford it. I have no reason to continue owning rental properties, since I’ve lost the tax benefits and they aren’t appreciating. I quit paying the mortgages on them (but pocket the rent since I’ll need it to cover my taxes). They go into foreclosure, there are more vacant bank-owned homes on the market, and my renters are evicted.

          My family is in a recession. My renters are in a recession. My bank-owned rental homes are adding to the depressed housing market.

          Well, I guess you solved that problem!

          1. With all due respect, landlords of single family homes compete for homes that potential owners want.  The price of real estate therefore goes up.

            My last landlord in Englewood owned TWENTY homes (while collecting a taxpayer funded paycheck at the city!)  That’s nineteen homes people couldn’t buy to house their families.

            The realtor lobby is one of the most powerful in Washington.  The main purpose is to make sure that it’s easier and more profitable to use homes that house families as investments, like stocks.  The most effective way of putting more people into homes is not by Liar Loans, it is to put the hundreds of thousands of SFL’s owned by landlords into the marketplace.  

          1. That’s too funny.

            For those of you not clicking links, the article sxp found is called “Ireland is first eurozone nation in recession.”

            LB, thoughts? Come on, tell us all about “recession over.”

            Bwahahahaha!

            1. to hear John McCain constantly talking about how we should be more like Ireland during the debates and all his free-airtime stump speeches.

              Considering how McCain fucked up every single aspect of his campaign, it was clearly inevitable that OF COURSE his policy would be to emulate the one European country in an official recession.

      2. Just a joke.

        But on the other hand, BHO says he will lower taxes, but we all know deep down what a load of crap that is. We know that when this country is in the middle of a recession, owes more money than it can ever hope to repay, and this inexperienced newbie comes along singing the song everyone wants to hear, that many of us will fall into that fairy tale land.

        C’mon. You know he can’t do it.

        Don’t tell me you actually deep deep down believe those lies?

        1. there is more money in the coffers. BO is going to lower taxes on the many not so well off and raise tax on the wealthy.  How is that ” a load of crap ” ?  How hard is this to understand ?

          We experimented with tax cuts for the wealthy in hopes that the money would “trickle down” to the less affluent.  That never happened.  If anything is a load of crap trickle down is.

          I would add if anything is not just a load of crap, but a steaming pile of man loaf, then borrow and spend is.  That’s even worse.

        3. FDR raised the taxes on the rich, a lot.  That funded WPA and CCC programs, the TVA, Bonneville and Hoover dams, and the first payments of Social Security.  

          The goal of the movement conservatives since Goldwater’s defeat has been to get middle class people like yourselves to pay more of the tax burden – and we are still going under – while convincing people like yourselves that it is the rich being screwed. And then they convince you to speak up for that poor, dispareged upper class.

          Boy, were they ever smart.

          1. was convincing the middle and lower classes that the estate tax threatened their future. If there is one thing that the cons have learned it is that all the poor think they have a shot at being rich and therefore they should be opposed to the estate tax.

            1. IIRC, it turns out that only 18 families have provided most of the lubricant ($$$) to lower the tax.  Folks like your neighbors living paycheck to paycheck like the Waltons.

              Probably less than 1% of Americans understand that first, Jefferson feared an American dynasty (can you say Boosh?) and two, that FDR’s intention on the inheritance tax was not only raising revenue, but to implement a barrier to that dynasty.  

    4. Taxes are levied against profits so even if Obama implemented 100% taxes,it would have zero impact on how many people you could hire.

      As to reducing the number of employees to service the same number of clients, if you can do that and provide service for the same income, you should do that even if there are no taxes.

      Gecko – maybe you should take a basic business class.

  7. …y’all see this craziness?

    UPDATE: Focus on the Family announced this afternoon that 202 jobs will be cut companywide – more than 20 percent of its workforce. Initial reports bring the total number of remaining employees to around 950.

    Focus on the Family is poised to announce major layoffs to its Colorado Springs-based ministry and media empire today. The cutbacks come just weeks after the group pumped more than half a million dollars into the successful effort to pass a gay-marriage ban in California.

    Critics are holding up the layoffs, which come just two months after the organization’s last round of dismissals, as a sad commentary on the true priorities of ministry.

    http://coloradoindependent.com…

  8. who needs paper trails when you have the Sixth Sense.

    The Government’s new science minister has raised eyebrows after he says he believes he has a ‘sixth sense’ to predict the future, it was revealed today.

    Lord Drayson said he was one of the humans with a ‘capability’ that experts did not fully understand.

    Although the peer does not claim his powers of foresight are paranormal, the comments may raise a few eyebrows among the community he represents.

    Extra-sensory abilities are not commonly accepted to exist by scientists.

    In an interview with The Sunday Times, Lord Drayson said: ‘In my life there have been some things I have known, and I don’t know why.

    [snip]

    Lord Drayson described his ability as ‘like a sixth sense’ and said it could be linked to the way humans have evolved.

     

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