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January 10, 2011 11:34 PM UTC
36 Comments
From http://www.guardian.co.uk/worl…
There are a lot of untreated or under-treated mentally ill in this country. The atmosphere created, intentionally, over the past two years makes it much more likely that a lot of these people will act out in ways they believe they’re being told to.
And yes, you can kill a whole hell of a lot more people with a semi-automatic than a knife. And no, these “nuts” are not capable of building, placing and detonating a bomb! But they are, obviously, able to get guns.
Maybe now that he has been arrested, they can find him the mental health care he sounds like he needs.
while identifying those with mental health issues who may act violently because their mental health issues are not addressed is critical to preventing violence, given the fact that hospitals & other health care facilities have been shutting down their mental health units leads me to question the likelihood of this man receiving the care treatment he may need. Moreover, as the state continues to cut programs across the board, those with mental health issues are just as likely to lose access to critical services that could prevent future acts of violence. It’s a sad state of affairs where justification for mental health care comes from a person’s willingness to threaten violence against others and attribute it to either a self-diagnosed or previously medically diagnosed illness, rather than having the ability to seek that treatment, and have it be a standard benefit of health insurance coverage.
And that is part of the whole societal atmosphere in which we live. We have, in many ways, sunk back into the beliefs, and behaviors by many in power, of the 19th century.
The mentally ill are short on advocates. Even Mrs. Ritter, a strong advocate, IIRC didn’t get much if anything done on this issue during her husbands administration.
I’d love to be corrected on this.
My layman’s opinion of the mental health treatment provided by our prision system (in general, not Colorado specifically) can pretty much be summed up by: keep ’em caged, keep ’em sedated, and keep ’em out of trouble. It’s relatively cheap, easy, and safe.
When they’ve served their term, cut ’em loose. Two weeks later when they recidivate (because they don’t get or take their perscription drugs outside away from supervision), round ’em up, build more prisons, and order some more Thorazine.
In theory, I agree with what is being said. However, in practise, many times treatment consists of doling out pills with little or no follow-up.
I have often wondered about the similarities between Harris and Hinkley….both were “treated” in Jefferson County, both had competent, successful fathers and both had older brothers who were on the road to success.
Mental illness is devastating for the individual, the family, and as we have seen, the country.
I visited a few actually, but one of them was the mental health facility that DoC runs down there. It’s not pretty, but they are immensely understaffed and underfunded. Although its anecdotal, my experience at that facility was that they’re doing the best they can with what they have.
I know you were making a more general statement, DDM, so don’t take my comment to be criticizing your take, but I think the job that the people there are tasked with is neither cheap, easy, nor safe given how incredibly dangerous many of these individuals are. They’re definitely not building more prisons (the place I saw was at capacity, and the warden told me that their population ought to be 20 or 30 times higher than it is, but they have to prioritize who is treated by them, and who remains in the general population) and even if they did, building one or two more wouldn’t help all that much.
It’s a complex issue. Again, I’m not trying to be combative, I just thought I’d share my (brief) experience.
working in the system face much, much worse that we can imagine. And, it’s the same sad story — too many cases; not enough staff, space or treatment options. Do the very best you can in a highly demanding and unrewarding job with the inadequate little that you’re provided for the task.
I was speaking more in broad generalities, as you noted. Like these (from Frontline on PBS):
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/…
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/…
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/…
Threats like this should never be dismissed.
Like registered Democrat Jared Loughner?
Please, tell me about the Tea Partier who made threats over his Social Security. I doubt it.
It’s not about whether the person committing the act is registered as a Republican, Democrat or Independent. It’s about the violent rhetoric in general that needs to stop. Most of that rhetoric happens to come from Republicans, for whatever reason.
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I’ve heard a few T-Party types – at T-Party events – tell me that, for them, Social Security is not a “government entitlement” program. They are just getting back what they paid for over their lifetime of work.
In that case, I can see such a person complaining that they weren’t getting all that they felt they were entitled to, and maybe getting angry when they didn’t get the response that they expected.
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It is a government entitlement and they are being paid by workers contributing now just as their contributions paid for the retirees of their working days. The relation between what they put in and what they are entitled to take out is a very limited one only in the context of certain thresholds. If you live to be 110 you never run out of social security money, regardless of what was taken from your earnings, for instance.
Between increasing longevity and the much lower wages being paid long ago, most are collecting far more than they ever put in or that they would have left had it been privatized and wound up in retirement funds that lost two thirds of their value in recent debacles. The same goes for similar excuses about why they want the government to keep its hands off their medicare.
Instead of making excuses for their ignorance how about telling them why they’re wrong and explaining, you know, the reality based world? Or do you just nod when they tell you this stuff?
It appears he has a penchant for reading Communist and Marxist sourcebooks.
It also appears he is an anti-government nut that believes not only in a number of right-wing conspiracy theories, but also a number of “just plain out there” theories. It sounds like a lot of those conspiracies are those the “Freemen” movement might endorse.
He is, obviously, a nut. And from the early and fragmented sounds of things, he’s an equal opportunity nut. But here’s something I’ll bet on: he didn’t hear any suggestions to go out and use “Second Amendment Remedies” from the Left in this country.
Suspected Tucson gunman Jared Lee Loughner registered as an independent voter in Arizona in the fall of 2006, according to the Pima County Registrar of Voters.
Loughner registered to vote on Sept. 29, 2006, identifying himself as an independent. Records show he voted in the 2006 and 2008 elections but is current listed as “inactive” on the state’s voter roles — meaning that he did not vote in November.
for clearing up that, and GOPCowards’ nonsense.
He and his bretheren take whisper and smear campaigns on the internet as hard fact on one hand yet demand to see Obama’s original birth certificate on the other.
Such complete bullshit.
There is a difference between a troll and a paid troll. Notice how the election season of 2010 brought out these persistent angry voices here on ColoradoPols?
They wouldn’t do it just on their own. Look at all the time they are putting in! With all the secret corporate money and the extremist wealthy donors, they can easily afford to buy people like GOP Waggler (and it is easy to figure out who the others are here) to work on distorting the dialogue on various blogs like CoP.
It isn’t about truth or dialogue; it is to muddy the truth and prevent honest dialogue.
or the political registration of this guy in Arizona is wrong. According to every account I’ve read, he’s a registered Independent and didn’t vote in the last election.
I’ll have to go with fucking liar and stupid.
I’d like a source and a link, please. (Not faux “news”.)
posted in another thread. Even Free Republic is embarrassed by his obvious forgery.
….because of the massacre in Tuscon.
The Daily Prophet is reporting that Ed is taking a look at his next two meetings in his district at local grocery stores.
They also talked to Rep DeGette’s office, confirming that she doesn’t make public appearances in her district. Or anywhere else for that matter…
…But with three daughters and a loving wife, I can’t blame Ed for taking a long, hard look at the feasibility of continuing these events. I hope he’ll find a way to keep doing them.
people complain that congress members don’t listen but the fact is the good ones do provide plenty of opportunities to speak directly to them and if this is what comes of it, you can hardly blame them for the consequences. If they can’t be accessible without risking their lives, they’re going to be less accessible.
If you can’t attend one of their town halls without screaming obscenities at them and shouting them down so they can’t answer questions, they don’t have to put up with that. The people complaining the most about Washington not listening are the ones who either don’t bother to attend their Rep’s events or attend events only to disrupt. Washington has to listen to election results so the elected government is the only legitimate expression of the will of the people as expressed by their votes whether you like that government or not.
The GOP mantra that the Dem President, Senate and House didn’t represent the will of the people was nonsense. The fact that they took back the House but not the Senate shows that neither party has a claim to be the only legitimate voice of the people and if the people want to be heard in between elections they’d better learn how to engage in civil discourse with their own representatives.
According to Ken Buck’s campaign commercial, “We protested… We emailed… We pleaded… They (the government) heard us, but they ignored us. Well, my friends, on November 2 they’ll ignore us no more.”
According to the new GOP constitutional scholars, it’s the GOP-run House of Representatives that determines what is constitutional, not the Supreme Court. And, because they emailed their Congressman, they should have their views adopted, regardless of election results. And, if not, then there’s always the Second Amendment remedy.
The GOP and their related tea bagger friends are merely childish bullies who don’t believe in democracy. In my experience, it’s best to stand up to these bullies. In most cases, they break down and point to some family tragedy that caused them to act like assholes.
The “plenty of opportunities” one. I make a point of not letting a complaint about out of touch, inaccessible representatives go by without inviting the person complaining to–you guessed it–a Government in the Grocery event. Sometimes they even actually attend and admit that there’s at least one man in Congress who wants to listen to average voters.
Sometimes insane people do insane and violent things, and it’s fairly clear in my opinion that this particular insane, violent person was pushed towards this particular horrifying action by the mood of political discourse in our country. However, I hope that doesn’t motivate other representatives to cut off access. They should look closely at security options when they can, but I would hate to see those complaints about congresspersons ignoring “regular folks” be legitimized following this tragedy.
If the threshold of access becomes not “willingness to spend some time and behave reasonably politely” but “willingness to subject yourself to TSA-like security measures” or “ability to attend the expensive, upper-tier fundraisers” we will see fewer voters talking to their representatives. That could easily create more violence down the road by making it even easier for angry people to refuse to recognize politicians as fellow human beings with families and lives of their own. The more detached Congress is, the more empowered people feel to direct especially violent and vitriolic attacks toward its members.
will be a very unfortunate, though understandable, way of reacting to this tragedy and I admire all those who have been coming forward with statements saying that they have no plans to make changes in their public events schedule. I also must admit that my gut reaction to news that Perlmutter was probably going to cancel his grocery store events for January and February was disappointment that he wasn’t among the defiant. But since its not my life on the line, I don’t feel that I have the right to judge for those facing the risk.
I am a longtime supporter of Perlmutter and would never want him (or any elected official, including those I don’t support) to come to harm in the course of his duties. I hope that his deliberations also weigh the dangers of further depersonalizing Congress to the American public, and I hope he is able to find a way to feel secure enough to keep doing these events after a break.
I’ll understand if it seems to be an impossibility, but I really don’t think there’s significantly more danger now than there’s ever been. Knocking on doors, appearing in public, appearing on TV, traveling by air… being an elected official has always been a proposition likely to bring one into contact with some crazies, and you roll the dice as to whether or not any of the crazies you meet during your career are armed and willing to fire.
Didn’t mean to say you were unfairly judging. I hope this won’t create more barriers too. It’s just that the phony tough lets-you-and-him-bleed-for-our-country attitude of Cheney and other swaggering chickenhawks in the Bush administration, those who never broke a nail for our country, left me extra cautious about even appearing to personally take credit for heroic courage from the safety of my computer chair.
I wish there was a movement now to take back our political life. We should all hold a rally with our Representatives and Senators present where they are all protected by we the people.
If we fall into the reflexive defensive crouch and hide behind closed doors now, then we will surely have lost a great deal. The tragedy would only be compounded.
…or every time your officials hold an event. Show up, shake hands, and stay as long as you can as a calm and prepared presence. Get basic first aid training (something everyone should do no matter what).
I know if Perlmutter starts his Government in the Grocery events again, I’m going to start going as often as I can just to be a friendly face in the crowd and to do whatever I can to defuse any tensions that arise.
http://www.csgv.org/issues-and…
a few every month, almost never against anyone except Democrats.
There are two arguments used by the Right (and the “Liberal” media) to let the Right duck responsibility.
The first argument is that the rhetoric is the same on both sides. This is false. The eliminationist language is almost all from the right.
The second argument is that the rhetoric doesn’t have any affect. If so why are the targets overwhelmingly Democrats or perceived liberals.
There is also a minor argument that the rhetoric only comes from Right fringe elements. The end of http://www.truth-out.org/the-w… proves that this rhetoric comes from Right wing leaders.
a brain damaged man in Lake County made repeated phone calls, some harassing, some intimidating, some close to threatening to a number of individuals and agencies including a judge in Mesa County. He has been skating to the edge for years and this time jumped over it.
After a several day investigation he was charged last Friday with a felony; intimidating a judge and a misdemeanor; harassment. These are likely just the first charges. He is in jail now waiting for bond to be set.
n/t