Romney Adds More Evidence to the "Maybe He's Just a Sociopath?" File
36 Comments
by: ProgressiveCowgirl
Mitt Romney is a confusing candidate sometimes. And by sometimes, I mean most of the time. Maybe all the time. From “corporations are people” to calmly dissing London’s handling of the Olympics, in London, during the Olympics, the presumptive Republican nominee frequently demonstrates a bizarre and perplexing disconnect from the feelings or reactions of others. His lack of empathy, even years later, for family dog Seamus is equally curious, as is his claim he doesn’t remember bullying a gay classmate.
The latest Mitt-doesn’t-get-people video features the Republican candidate walking away from a dying man who is a wheelchair user, apparently unaffected by the young man and unwilling to answer his question:
I tend to shy away from any pop-psychology attempt to diagnose from a distance, but this is becoming impossible to ignore. Romney does not react to other people in the way that most individuals–even politicians, and even extremely wealthy individuals–do. Could Romney simply be one of the 2% of human beings (according to Lt. Col. Dave Grossman in On Killing) who are without what we call a “conscience?”
Diagnostic criteria follow:
ICD-10
The World Health Organization’s International Statistical Classification of Diseases and Related Health Problems, tenth edition (ICD-10), defines a conceptually similar disorder to antisocial personality disorder called (F60.2) Dissocial personality disorder.[4]
It is characterized by at least 3 of the following:
Callous unconcern for the feelings of others.
Gross and persistent attitude of irresponsibility and disregard for social norms, rules, and obligations.
Incapacity to maintain enduring relationships, though having no difficulty in establishing them.
Very low tolerance to frustration and a low threshold for discharge of aggression, including violence.
Incapacity to experience guilt or to profit from experience, particularly punishment.
Markedly prone to blame others or to offer plausible rationalizations for the behavior that has brought the person into conflict with society.
There may be persistent irritability as an associated feature.
The diagnosis includes what may be referred to as amoral, antisocial, psychopathic, and sociopathic personality (disorder).
The criteria specifically rule out conduct disorders.[5] Dissocial personality disorder criteria differ from those for antisocial and sociopathic personality disorders.[6]
It is a requirement of ICD-10 that a diagnosis of any specific personality disorder also satisfies a set of general personality disorder criteria.
DSM-IV
The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, fourth edition (DSM IV-TR), defines antisocial personality disorder (in Axis II Cluster B) as:[1]
A) There is a pervasive pattern of disregard for and violation of the rights of others occurring since age 15 years, as indicated by three or more of the following:
failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest;
deception, as indicated by repeatedly lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure;
impulsiveness or failure to plan ahead;
irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults;
reckless disregard for safety of self or others;
consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations;
lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another;
B) The individual is at least age 18 years.
C) There is evidence of conduct disorder with onset before age 15 years.
D) The occurrence of antisocial behavior is not exclusively during the course of schizophrenia or a manic episode.
The individual must be at least 18 years of age to be diagnosed with this disorder (Criterion B), but those diagnosed with ASPD as adults were commonly diagnosed with conduct disorder as children. The prevalence of this disorder is 3% in males and 1% from females, as stated in the DSM IV-TR.
Obviously, none of us is Romney’s psychologist, but there’s a lot here that rings true about behaviors like his teenage bullying habits, his mistreatment of a family pet, and his actions at Bain Capital. There’s also his complete willingness to change his beliefs when it’s politically advantageous to do so. Most candidates flip-flop here and there, but retain a few core beliefs that are especially important to them. Romney appears simply to calculate the political benefit of a stance and then adopt it.
I have a personal interest in personality disorders and have done extensive reading on the subject of antisocial personality disorder. Forensic psychology is a career path I considered seriously. In my reading on the subject, I have found it consistently noted that many individuals with characteristics consistent with this personality disorder are extremely successful in business and do not commit the violent acts typically associated with the popular perception of “sociopathy.” Lt. Col. Grossman even notes in On Killing that these individuals are highly valuable in certain parts of the military, so long as they are willing to memorize and follow rules. In The Sociopath Next Door, Martha Stout describes several cases of successful executives whose sociopathy is an advantage, as they are not burdened or stressed by their decisions in the way that a typical person would be, so they do not suffer negative health consequences or emotional distress upon making a necessary business decision that causes harm to others.
Of course, this begs the question: If a politician who happens to be sociopathic becomes President, will this be an advantage or a disadvantage?
In my personal opinion, there are reasons not to elect Romney that are far more firmly based in fact than the theory–albeit one I’m hearing more and more often, including from some conservative friends–that Romney is not neurotypical. However, it’s an interesting question.
Had you asked me prior to the Romney campaign, I might have leaned toward the “advantage” side, because advisers can provide a rule set to the President which effectively synthesizes the benefits of conscience to the President and the country. Meanwhile, this theoretical sociopath President would not be prone to make illogical decisions based on sympathy for one or another group of people over others. The example that comes to mind is Truman’s description, in his autobiography, of an old friend’s emotional appeal which convinced then-President Truman to support Israel’s petition to be granted a country. Regardless of the rightness or wrongness of that decision, it’s clear that a sitting President admitted to making a decision which led to one of the most violent conflicts of the 20th and 21st centuries, primarily based on his emotional reaction to a friend’s appeal to his conscience.
However, Romney’s behaviors seem to suggest some disadvantages that might be less immediately obvious. He doesn’t convincingly mimic empathy behaviors, even when he’s talking to world leaders. He does not take advantage of opportunities to appear caring, relatable, or ordinary. In other words, he’s the anti-Bush: Nobody, even a Republican, wants to have a beer with Romney. George W. Bush was praised by some conservatives for being genuine, forthcoming, and making decisions from his “gut.” He was the red-blooded conservative male archetype, or at least an effective approximation of one.
Some news outlets have attributed Romney’s failure to appeal to Bush’s biggest fans to a “wimp factor”. But could a guy who hard-heartedly cuts and outsources jobs really be considered a “wimp?” I don’t think so–a wimp wouldn’t have gone so far in the cutthroat corporate world. Romney has demonstrated that he is decisive in the moment, although prone to waffling and revisionist history afterward.
Rather, it seems to me that it’s possible Romney isn’t connecting with the Bushites because of something a little harder to prove: He does not have moral convictions, gut instincts, or anything that could convince voters that President Romney is “just like them,” “genuine,” or “a real upstanding kind of guy,” as Bush was described by his supporters. They can’t relate to him the way people could to Bush, because Romney can’t relate to them the way Bush could.
This is in no way my own, original theory. For a few other takes on the question, click here, here, here, and here.
“Romney sociopath” yields 295,000 Google results, though it’s worth noting that “Obama sociopath” nets 768,000, including this vituperative condemnation in Mother Jones magazine, followed up by a colleague’s rebuke in the same publication. None of the first page of Google results for “Obama sociopath” makes a serious argument based on DSM criteria; this letter to the editor is the closest thing.
So, I don’t think people simply tend to accuse politicians they don’t like of sociopathy. There are a few results out there even for Bush, but most focus simply on his foreign policy and that he appears to feel no meaningful guilt for starting multiple wars in which lives were lost. Romney is the only modern candidate I could find who attracts calculated, expert analysis that suggests he may simply be a person without conscience.
Worth discussing? I think so, at this point, following his disastrous “world tour” in which he offended nearly everyone on Earth once, something that would impress even Wowbagger the Infinitely Prolonged.
There’s a distinction between “Do you support legal medical marijuana?” and “Do you support criminal penalties including imprisonment for users of medical marijuana and doctors who prescribe it?”
Just as there’s a distinction between “Do you support abortion?” and “Do you support the death penalty for women who have abortions?”
It’s a question of degree, and this young man, who may not live to ask another presidential candidate a question, deserved a specific answer.
Mitt chose to answer the question he felt like answering, not the one he was asked, and then to walk away from a dying man without giving him an answer to his question. That’s troubling.
“Would you legalize?” is very different from “Do I belong in jail?”
If you need proof of that, ask a few Colorado conservatives. I have, and many of them have nuanced answers to the two different questions.
Really? That’s a sign of a sociopath? You should be in a room of campaign operatives watching a debate — that kind of behavior gets praised to the heavens, it’s what professional politicians are trained to do.
Romney has a severe sense of entitlement and he believes he gets to decide which rules apply to himself. Just like a lot of very rich people.
Is he a bit of a bully? Maybe. But this video diagnosis is as ridiculous as when Bill Frist conducted one on Terri Schiavo. It says more about the one performing the diagnosis than it does about the subject.
You know, the stuff loaded with epinephrine, IIRC. No sirree, no cafeine for me.
In that video Rmoney didn’t even excuse himself, that he had to talk to others. He gave an obtuse answer (a politician doing that?) and walked away.
Any man (or woman) that can reduce decent companies to nothing, that can put people on the streets, that can send jobs to Burma without the blink of an eye IS a sociopath.
that around the 50th time he gets asked about his tax returns we are going to see some theater. People with this type of personality tend to explode when pushed repeatedly on something because it violates their sense of entitlement. Break out the popcorn.
… is that there’s way too little to support speculation of this nature. A few points:
Things like “callous disregard” for other’s feelings are, on the one hand, clinically limited to defining “others” as people only, not animals. APD (or is that ASPD?) is not necessary to not care for animals. (It’s a dick quality for sure though.)
Further, there’s no reason to question his commitment to his family. One of the diagnostic criteria is that he not be able to form lasting relationship, but can form easy ones. That would imply philandering, something that’s never been rumored about Romney.
Also, one need not be a sociopath to engage in teenage bullying, or to exhibit a lack of empathy to voters who may, legitimately or not, be trying to pin someone down regarding the potential consequences of a policy he supports.
Now, what MAY be going on with Romney is that he’s a privileged man, came from a wealthy family, made himself even wealthier, and decided he wanted to run for higher office like his father. It’s possible that his motivations are entirely selfish and not at all in the interest of serving his country.
“Blaming others?” In our country, politicians who admit fault usually lose elections.
“Low tolerance for frustration”? Well, for a politician he does seem to be that way. But personally, I would plead guilty to having this trait.
Impulsiveness? I can’t say I’ve ever perceived it in Romney’s biography.
Selfishness – and I fully believe Mitt Romney is a selfish man – isn’t sociopathy. Or psychopathy, or whatever.
I don’t like Mitt Romney. But I don’t believe he’s a psychopath/sociopath/APD, at least not with the information we have on him.
I do think there is something going on with Romney that goes beyond his extreme privilege. There are extremely wealthy politicians who do not seem to fundamentally misunderstand how humans work. I think it’s worth discussing–compassionately and thoughtfully, even–in case this man becomes President. We have four years with the President we get this fall, pretty much no matter what, and the establishment needs to prepare to deal with whatever they may be getting.
Some of the things that are weaknesses for Romney in dealing with individuals might be strengths as POTUS, but I do worry about his propensity to callously offend other nations. If he can’t get along with Russia, for instance, that’s a bit scary.
I owned that book at one time. The author laid out all the evidence of Bush’s disorders. There were many others doing the same online, and they were all pretty much in agreement.
Bush: Blowing up frogs
Rmoney: His dog on his car
Yeah, these are the kinds of men we want in the White House.
One defining characteristic of a narcissist is that they cannot face any sort of flaw or failure in themselves. Mitt actually seems to be able to anticipate his own failure and plan for it, as evidenced by the many contracts he’s made over the years where he’s protected even if he screws up — when he took the reins at Bain Capital, he did it with a rock-solid agreement that if he failed, he’d get his old job at Bain back with the same salary.
I’m just shocked at the degree to which his behavior is abnormal for a human being, and he seems incapable of hiding that in unscripted interactions, even if it would be politically advantageous to cover up a bit.
but I think the fact that Romney can basically function within the society his rich daddy built around him means he’s not a sociopath. He’s got the Mormonism down (and that requires a bunch of playing-by-rules), he doesn’t seem to abuse his wife or kids, and he seems to have an extremely solid allegiance to all his very rich friends. A sociopath would have a hard time faking all that for that long, I think.
But there’s no doubt Romney’s a total asshole. Is there a DSM definition of asshole? He certainly despises anyone poorer than him, believing that they are morally and intellectually inferior to him (because he believes his own success is utterly due to his own superiority). He certainly cannot comprehend what it’s like to not be born into privilege. He certainly has no genuine political beliefs. But to believe he’s a sociopath would require more.
Ultimately it kind of feels like calling some person with very stupid opinions “retarded.” That’s a word that means something, and it’s tragic to have that condition. To use it casually is rather insulting to people with that condition (and those who care about them who have enough problems already), and reflects badly on the insulter.
Romney is a horrible human being with no empathy for anyone not in his own social class. He’s a liar and a scumbag and an asshole and a very stupid man, and he would probably send you a bill if he somehow ended up pissing on you. But why try and diagnose him without a license as a “sociopath” when all these other incontrovertible descriptions do as good of a job?
August 03, 2012 12:06 AM UTC
36 Comments
Romney does not support medical marijuana. That does not mean he is unsympathetic to this person. This was obviously a setup.
This won’t convince anybody who isn’t already on the side of legalization of pot, and they are not going to be the deciders in this election.
All the rest of this is just speculation based on the same crap. Psychologically, it says more about the author than it does about Mitt Romney.
There’s a distinction between “Do you support legal medical marijuana?” and “Do you support criminal penalties including imprisonment for users of medical marijuana and doctors who prescribe it?”
Just as there’s a distinction between “Do you support abortion?” and “Do you support the death penalty for women who have abortions?”
It’s a question of degree, and this young man, who may not live to ask another presidential candidate a question, deserved a specific answer.
Mitt Romney does not support medical marijuana.
The rest of your diatribe simply makes no sense. You’re way over the top.
Mitt chose to answer the question he felt like answering, not the one he was asked, and then to walk away from a dying man without giving him an answer to his question. That’s troubling.
“Would you legalize?” is very different from “Do I belong in jail?”
If you need proof of that, ask a few Colorado conservatives. I have, and many of them have nuanced answers to the two different questions.
Really? That’s a sign of a sociopath? You should be in a room of campaign operatives watching a debate — that kind of behavior gets praised to the heavens, it’s what professional politicians are trained to do.
Romney has a severe sense of entitlement and he believes he gets to decide which rules apply to himself. Just like a lot of very rich people.
Is he a bit of a bully? Maybe. But this video diagnosis is as ridiculous as when Bill Frist conducted one on Terri Schiavo. It says more about the one performing the diagnosis than it does about the subject.
http://www.denverpost.com/brea…
Illegal is illegal …. are you leftists proud you’ve back federal and state criminal enterprises?
http://www.ronpaul.com/2011-06…
His question was rediculous. Mitt Romney is not in law enforcement – so now of course Mitt will not arrest this man.
It was a silly question.
That is an interesting idea there.
the question was totally rediculous
to call out “rediculous gotcha questions.:
abzurd! laffable even
is there such a high correlation between:
A) poor spelling and grammar
B) rigid adherence to nonsensical theories, and
C) non-acceptance of facts ?
Oh, education. Sorry.
I know that’s a hard concept to grasp, especially if you never had civics.
Rediculous, you know?
A: I do not support speeding in school zones.
To Arapa-Bot that appears a logical answer apparently, and suggesting that it is not is offensive and over the top.
You know, the stuff loaded with epinephrine, IIRC. No sirree, no cafeine for me.
In that video Rmoney didn’t even excuse himself, that he had to talk to others. He gave an obtuse answer (a politician doing that?) and walked away.
Any man (or woman) that can reduce decent companies to nothing, that can put people on the streets, that can send jobs to Burma without the blink of an eye IS a sociopath.
that around the 50th time he gets asked about his tax returns we are going to see some theater. People with this type of personality tend to explode when pushed repeatedly on something because it violates their sense of entitlement. Break out the popcorn.
the Mitt Romney factor is that the more you see of him, the less you like. This is starting to show in the polls as well.
And although I would hesitate to make diagnoses like this, it does make you wonder. Kind of reminds me of Scott McInnis. Food for thought PCG.
… is that there’s way too little to support speculation of this nature. A few points:
Things like “callous disregard” for other’s feelings are, on the one hand, clinically limited to defining “others” as people only, not animals. APD (or is that ASPD?) is not necessary to not care for animals. (It’s a dick quality for sure though.)
Further, there’s no reason to question his commitment to his family. One of the diagnostic criteria is that he not be able to form lasting relationship, but can form easy ones. That would imply philandering, something that’s never been rumored about Romney.
Also, one need not be a sociopath to engage in teenage bullying, or to exhibit a lack of empathy to voters who may, legitimately or not, be trying to pin someone down regarding the potential consequences of a policy he supports.
Now, what MAY be going on with Romney is that he’s a privileged man, came from a wealthy family, made himself even wealthier, and decided he wanted to run for higher office like his father. It’s possible that his motivations are entirely selfish and not at all in the interest of serving his country.
“Blaming others?” In our country, politicians who admit fault usually lose elections.
“Low tolerance for frustration”? Well, for a politician he does seem to be that way. But personally, I would plead guilty to having this trait.
Impulsiveness? I can’t say I’ve ever perceived it in Romney’s biography.
Selfishness – and I fully believe Mitt Romney is a selfish man – isn’t sociopathy. Or psychopathy, or whatever.
I don’t like Mitt Romney. But I don’t believe he’s a psychopath/sociopath/APD, at least not with the information we have on him.
Good for you, Aristotle. I didn’t think you had it in you to be so fair.
What’s your personality disorder? Is “utter douche” in the DSM? Can you treat your douchebaggery somehow? Have you seen a therapist about this?
I enjoyed reading it.
I do think there is something going on with Romney that goes beyond his extreme privilege. There are extremely wealthy politicians who do not seem to fundamentally misunderstand how humans work. I think it’s worth discussing–compassionately and thoughtfully, even–in case this man becomes President. We have four years with the President we get this fall, pretty much no matter what, and the establishment needs to prepare to deal with whatever they may be getting.
Some of the things that are weaknesses for Romney in dealing with individuals might be strengths as POTUS, but I do worry about his propensity to callously offend other nations. If he can’t get along with Russia, for instance, that’s a bit scary.
So why not a sociopath?
Most Americans have zero knowledge about mental disorder diagnosis except when someone shoots up a movie theater.
… we’ve elected a LOT of narcissists.
I’m nowhere near an expert, but I would guess that Romney’s a more likely candidate for Narcissistic Personality Disorder than APD.
I owned that book at one time. The author laid out all the evidence of Bush’s disorders. There were many others doing the same online, and they were all pretty much in agreement.
Bush: Blowing up frogs
Rmoney: His dog on his car
Yeah, these are the kinds of men we want in the White House.
….Bush torturing frat pledges with cigarette burns. Some scarred to this day.
than the typical NPD.
One defining characteristic of a narcissist is that they cannot face any sort of flaw or failure in themselves. Mitt actually seems to be able to anticipate his own failure and plan for it, as evidenced by the many contracts he’s made over the years where he’s protected even if he screws up — when he took the reins at Bain Capital, he did it with a rock-solid agreement that if he failed, he’d get his old job at Bain back with the same salary.
doesn’t make someone a sociopath — but like everything else in American society today, having all that money probably makes it a lot easier.
I’m just shocked at the degree to which his behavior is abnormal for a human being, and he seems incapable of hiding that in unscripted interactions, even if it would be politically advantageous to cover up a bit.
One more request for his tax returns and he’ll start screaming, “Mepps! Mepps!!”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K…
I mean, seriously?
but I think the fact that Romney can basically function within the society his rich daddy built around him means he’s not a sociopath. He’s got the Mormonism down (and that requires a bunch of playing-by-rules), he doesn’t seem to abuse his wife or kids, and he seems to have an extremely solid allegiance to all his very rich friends. A sociopath would have a hard time faking all that for that long, I think.
But there’s no doubt Romney’s a total asshole. Is there a DSM definition of asshole? He certainly despises anyone poorer than him, believing that they are morally and intellectually inferior to him (because he believes his own success is utterly due to his own superiority). He certainly cannot comprehend what it’s like to not be born into privilege. He certainly has no genuine political beliefs. But to believe he’s a sociopath would require more.
Ultimately it kind of feels like calling some person with very stupid opinions “retarded.” That’s a word that means something, and it’s tragic to have that condition. To use it casually is rather insulting to people with that condition (and those who care about them who have enough problems already), and reflects badly on the insulter.
Romney is a horrible human being with no empathy for anyone not in his own social class. He’s a liar and a scumbag and an asshole and a very stupid man, and he would probably send you a bill if he somehow ended up pissing on you. But why try and diagnose him without a license as a “sociopath” when all these other incontrovertible descriptions do as good of a job?