CO-04 (Special Election)
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(R) Greg Lopez
(R) Trisha Calvarese
90%
10%
President (To Win Colorado)
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(D) Joe Biden*
(R) Donald Trump
80%
20%↓
CO-01 (Denver)
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(D) Diana DeGette*
90%
CO-02 (Boulder-ish)
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(D) Joe Neguse*
90%
CO-03 (West & Southern CO)
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(D) Adam Frisch
(R) Jeff Hurd
(R) Ron Hanks
40%
30%
20%
CO-04 (Northeast-ish Colorado)
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(R) Lauren Boebert
(R) Deborah Flora
(R) J. Sonnenberg
30%↑
15%↑
10%↓
CO-05 (Colorado Springs)
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(R) Dave Williams
(R) Jeff Crank
50%↓
50%↑
CO-06 (Aurora)
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(D) Jason Crow*
90%
CO-07 (Jefferson County)
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(D) Brittany Pettersen
85%↑
CO-08 (Northern Colo.)
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(D) Yadira Caraveo
(R) Gabe Evans
(R) Janak Joshi
60%↑
35%↓
30%↑
State Senate Majority
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DEMOCRATS
REPUBLICANS
80%
20%
State House Majority
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DEMOCRATS
REPUBLICANS
95%
5%
August 23, 2013 10:30 PM UTC
30 Comments
Good morning all!
Where does the polarization come from? How do we get our politics moving again?
Like most of you, I fondly remember the Republicans of yesteryear, who were in fact the Democrats of the years before the Civil rights movement. I remember relatives and friends who were fiscal conservatives, war hawks, skeptics of social change, but yet who could sit down to dinner with my liberal parents, work on community projects, and craft compromising, sensible laws in councils.
So what the heck happened? In my opinion, money in politics happened. Citizens United happened. There is now zero incentive to compromise or craft sensible laws, and much incentive to remain polarized and "stuck". All right, so that's one question. What happened to moderates and where did the polarization come from?
Now let's zoom down to a very narrow, tight focus. A microcosm of a microcosm of political discourse. This board.
I have to say that I see just as much name calling and ad hominem ( to the person) attacks on this board as I see in the Huff post comments sections, which have now gotten so vicious that Huffpo is going to go to a "no anonymous comments" policy in an effort to shut down the trolls and get back to civil discourse.
When someone calls Fladen an "asshat" or Moderatus an "idiot" or whatever, or from the other perspective, "libtard", that would be an ad hominem attack. I've been told that I have no respect for truth, that I'm not trustworthy to teach their children, that I'm a drunk, that I should get my head out of my ass. Those are all from Huffpo comments, not this board. It's satisfying, I guess, for venting political frustrations, but it's abusive and just keeps people polarized.
I disagree with Fladen and Moderatus on almost every issue, but there are unexplored areas of agreement.
I think it's important to keep in mind that there are much more extreme conservatives out there. To refresh your memory, check out the FB comments on Salzman's thread. Hell, just read Salzman's thread. We have conservative people on this board who are willing to engage without insults, and what we have to do is insist on staying on the issues no matter what little straw men or red herrings or distracting questions they throw, so maybe eventually we can drill down and expose what the real areas of agreement and disagreement are.
I think it's worth doing. But it may not be as fun in the short term as just calling someone a "libtard" or an "asshat" or a "f**ing troll" or whatever.
I get that part of the charm of this board is the "anything goes" mode. I like that the rabid conservative trolls are intimidated, and haven't taken over to the extent that they have destroyed discourse, as they have on other boards. I guess that I'd just like people to look for areas of agreement before they trash the person.
Very well said. I agree 1 million percent.
Oh, mama. Please feel free to explore those "unexplored areas of agreement". Whatever those are. I'll sit this one out.
I have no desire for nicey-nice with folks who want to destroy my government, starve my neighbors and, time after time, condemn my frineds to illness and death and insult the intelligence of and denigrate the morality of the women I care for. Have a nice garden party.
One lump or two? Indeed.
I am with Larry one this one, mama. While I respect and admire your spirit of cooperation, I have no interest. After years of watching and listening to the truly despicable things done and said by the powerful people on the "other" side, my stash of conciliation has evaporated.
The "asshats" who visit this site are a reflection of people I actually know (and have known) and have grown to loathe over the years. They are people like Vicki Marble and her champion, Elliot Fladen. They are people like Cory Gardner, Josh Penry, and Frank McNulty, who were trained as state legislators by the O&G industry lobby to be arrogant, heartless, money-sucking, grifters. They are the Steve Kings and Steve Lonegans of the world… the Sean Hannitys, Glenn Becks, and Sarah Palins…the Rand Pauls and Donald Trumps…they are legion.
The Republican party has been ceded to a collection of selfish, hateful, duplicitous, political opportunists who have turned their backs on the truth for so long, they no longer know what it is. The people who represent them and their point of view deserve and will get no further respect, or even tolerance, from me.
If I had ever seen some measure of respect or empathy coming from this collection of "conservatives", I might feel otherwise…but I have not. I have, though, witnessed the endless cruelty and hubris of the oil and gas industry (among others) and the Colorado Republican caucus it owns…and the continuing stream of trolls who try to defend their despicable behavior.
I wish you luck in finding those "areas of agreement" with the likes of Fladen, Nock, et al. I'll just have another cup of coffee… and watch.
Larry and DC,
It's all good. Please don't overextend the implications of this. After almost 40 years of being an activist at all ends of the leftist spectrum, I'm not particularly naive. Nor am I making nice with truly powerful conservatives. They will continue to find me as much of a pain in the neck as they always have.
I will continue to acknowledge those occasions when, for example, Fladen shuts down his peeps who are disgustingly mocking Rhonda Field's loss of her son, or calling her "Rap sheet Rhonda'. Or the Nockster hilariously mocks the secessionists "replacing marijuana with goatweed since 1937".
And you can ignore these little glimpses of commonality,and continue to see a monolithic Enemy, which must be treated as such.
Each mode of communication is necessary to move forward.
I think many readers of these pages can remember when I made the transition from conciliatory to confrontational. It is truly a matter of ignoring…not being unaware. and as you say…
We all have our niche…
One party spouts rhetoric and pushes agendas that promote racism, misogyny, homophobia, and rejection of any religion that's not of the Judeo-Christian flavor. A party that embraces members who openly and loudly question the President's heritage.
I'm not going to bother playing nice with those people just so I can congratulate myself on being fair-minded.
How much progress has been made in Congress since 2008?
I disagree (I know, big surprise). I think at the state level we do have the two parties working together and compromising quite a bit. Brophy & others worked with several Dems to adjust PERA and extend how long it would stay viable.
Yes the Republican party is a wholely owned subsidiary of the O&G and auto dealers industries. But the Democratic party is pretty much owned by the trial lawyers and unions. Parties need money and so they ally with funding sources. Sucks but in the present structure it's necessary.
Yes there are items with strong disagreement like gun laws. That should happen when two parties are philosophically different. But wanting guns for everyone and birth control for no one does not mean someone is despicable, it means they disagree culturally.
The Republican party has seen an increase in both idiots and people who want to return us to some imaginary version of the '50s. And a primary electorate who more and more insists on hearing that message. And that has degraded the political discussion substantially.
But at the same time there are many Republicans who step up to do what they think is the right thing, from a cultural viewpoint that is more conservative than that of most of us on Pols.
Think of B.J. Nikkel & Jean White, both ended their political careers voting in favor of civil unions.
@mj55
Thank you for a very thoughtful essay, with which I am not in agreement. Let me explain. Our political system is basically adversarial – someone wins and someone losse…in elections and in court. The underlying consensus is that we all accept that is how the system works. Winners have to preserve the consequences of their victory and losers how to figure out how to win, next time. Consensus becomes important in the legislative process. But that means that each political party has some power to force consessions during that consensus process.
For the system to work, both parties, Democratic and Republican, have to be willing to engage in the fray. I think that right now, the Democrats have disengaged and are unwilling to take the fight to the Republicans. The outrageous claims of the Republicans go unanswered…except on blogs, such as this….where Democrats talk to each other and agree that they are the good guys. Republicans are more aggressive and have, I think, more of a sense of how important the voice of the public really is.
I think that this blog should be about politics. Politics is about power – getting it and keeping it. That is a full time responsibility of each party. That means talking about strategies and tactics. I don't think the Democrats are really ready to do that, IMHO.
Damn, Dwyer, I'm re-reading and re-re-reading and I can't find anything to disagree with you on. I'm so getting senile.
Well, thanx, you made my day. But, I am alarmed….I find myself reading Blue Care, carefully and it seems to me that overall, the name calling is more muted by everyone. My guess? It is those gamma/soma rays wafting from the new software installed during the takeover of Coloradopols…….I predict..
we shall soon hear "Cumbaya" when we hit the elusive "reply" button.
Blue Cat….
I'll see what I can do to fix that….
CBS News Reporting at its finest:
Nor sure if purposely, but SubWitty you may have answered mamajammas riddle ,lol. Maybe Twitty is witty after all.
Anyways, forest timber is not dry and it is full of flammable sap, even the dead stuff.
Most lumberyard lumber has been kiln dried to about 7%, (so some guy on askit says.)
As usual your 'thinking' escapes me. I find it a great relief that you do not find me often 'witty' as if you did I would promptly check myself intot he State Hospital. I thought that CBS news quoting their source as 'smoe guy' was kind of funny, not making any statment on forest fuels being kiln dried.
Yo SubWitty,
You have no wit as usual. I thought the some guy reference was emblematic of the problems we face today. MamaJamma is concerned and some of her concern should fall on the shoulders of the hack media we live with every day.
The kiln dried issued is only tangent. Not only was "someguy" cheap, sloppy and lazy, the reporter inadvertently provided incorrect information from "someguy".
Thanks for 'explaining' that. Here you go, this could help http://zapatopi.net/afdb/
<iframe src="//player.vimeo.com/video/72371984" width="400" height="300" frameborder="0" webkitallowfullscreen mozallowfullscreen allowfullscreen></iframe>
I am going to post this vid till get it right. This movie trailer is alarmign and I cannot wait till September. I will be first in line. I wonder what he fallout will be…
<iframe src="//player.vimeo.com/video/72371984" width="400" height="300" frameborder="0" webkitallowfullscreen mozallowfullscreen allowfullscreen></iframe>
Interesting trailer, glad I watched it So how did you feel about the documentary "Inside Job" which covers some of the same material with emphasis on derivative speculation and housing bubble?
The trailer is all opinon, no facts, and many of the opinons have been throughly debunked. The trailer does not lead me to think I would encounter in this movie arguments based on facts, data and logic, nor information that would be helpful to carefully consider and evaluate the evidence and reach logical, reality-based conclusions. I am open to information that challenges me, but the trailer does not make it seem like worthy of my time. Perhaps there is real meat in the movie–I don't see it from the trailer.
Unlike say a Michael Moore preview 🙂
What I have found with Moore is that he always does have a lot of good solid facts but, since his early successes, just can't resist screwing the legit stuff up with highly questionable material, thereby severely damaging his credibility. He's become a too much of a legend in his own mind. Personally haven't bothered with his documentaries for a long time.
No, not unlike–but at least Moore has some humor… But as Blue Cat says, Moore is often over the top but is fact based. For this trailer, as I said, a number of these opinions have been thoroughly debunked, and with no prospect for even a chuckle, it does not intice me to take the time to watch garbage.
Attack the messenger in 3,2,1…
'Liberty Street Films' ?