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October 16, 2014 06:14 AM UTC

Thursday Open Thread

  • 68 Comments
  • by: Colorado Pols

"Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance."

–George Bernard Shaw

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68 thoughts on “Thursday Open Thread”

  1. Quinnipiac out today with Gardner +6 over Udall.

    Folks, the last Quinnipiac polls were pure sh-t — completely outliers. BothWays +10, Con Man +8, and Teabagger Ernst in Iowa +6. No one took them seriously.

    Everyone laughed at them last time for their crap polls, and they will again now.

    So when the trolls show up today bleating about this latest crap poll, remember that it's all a con job by liars. This race remains dead even, or Gardner just slightly ahead. Don't buy into the right-wing bullshit. We're still on track to take this one if the GOTV stays strong.

  2. The voters don't like Mark Udall.

    Maybe they don't appreciated being lied to.

    Whatever it is, they just don't like Mark Udall.

    Here is the money quote from the latest poll showing him down 6%.

    Colorado likely voters give Sen. Udall a negative 42 – 49 percent favorability rating, compared to Gardner's positive 47 – 41 percent rating. 

     

        1. Who thinks this wingnut AG won't be on here any longer after he find outs con man cory is given a shellacking of epic proportions? LOL

           

          Gardner got exposed in the debate last night.

        1. Don't worry the con man will be in DC today for his photo op pretending that he really cares, even though he was part of the house teabaggers that voted to cut funding to the CDC. Had that not happened we might have a vaccine now. But hey politics are more important than people to the teabaggers.

        2. No, the government should not be regulating transportation.  A market-oriented solution is called for:  in the long run, the airline that most efficiently screens its passengers for communicable diseases will come out on top.

        3. Cory "Send in the Feds" Gardner has additional ideas:

          Gardner was one of just two members of Colorado's congressional delegation to vote against an amendment that prohibited enforcement of federal drug laws against state-licensed medical marijuana businesses. He also wrote a letter to Attorney General Eric Holder last year questioning the Justice Department's authority to allow Colorado to opt out of federal drug laws. Udall, for his part, has advocated for the federal government to allow marijuana businesses access to basic banking services. [Source.]

          1. Good find…and consistent with BWB's position of full repeal.  It's been a little puzzling to me why the cannabis community has effectively ignored this race and focused exclusively on the Governor's race.  A64 is in our state constitution – repealing it is a non-started; not going to happen regardless of who is elected.  However, the utter failure of our War on Drugs needs champions in the House (Perlmutter and Polis are squarely in that camp) and Senate. 

            1. 5280 Opinion:

              The governor's office subsequently issued a statement that said "risky" would've been a better descriptor, and it went on to highlight the various ways the state has been carrying out the will of the voters on the law. It was a welcome clarification; unfortunately, the off-the-cuff "reckless" comment—a classic example of Hick's niggling tendency to stray from his campaign script—ended up making headlines throughout Colorado and nationally…

              In other words, the rollout of Amendment 64 has been anything but reckless. In fact, it's been demonstrably thoughtful and deliberate, aided in a large part by Colorado's successful experience with medical marijuana. That doesn't mean we can't keep improving the processes, and we are. And while it's true that recent polls have shown some public disappointment with the execution of the new policies, calls for improvement shouldn't be confused with calls for repeal. It's fair to say that most people don't like how any number of laws are administered; only the anarchic fringe wants them eliminated…

              Maybe the naysaying about it from these two candidates is simply election-year posturing. That's fine—so long as whoever's occupying the governor's chair in 2015 realizes that it's his job to nurture and help improve the laws our voters have chosen rather than undermine them.

        4. Normal temperature is a range between 97.7 and 99.5.  The nurse's temperature was reported as 99.5.  I do agree that the Ebola factor should have weighed in.  Did the CDC call center know she was exposed and did the CDC up date its call center response protocol to include Ebola exceptions.  Did the CDC have any idea the hospital would not have told the nurse to stay home? 

          There is responsibility to be born here and that includes those who voted to gut the funding of the CDC and the NIH. Any more cuts and Grover can drag them both into the bathroom and drown them in the bath tub.  National security be damned.

          1. Nurses who have worked closely with Ebola patients shouldn't be getting on planes period and certainly not with a temp that may only not yet be above 99.5. They also shouldn't be caring for patients with any skin exposed. This has been strictly amateur hour. Being mostly covered up isn't enough. It's like being in outer space. If it isn't all it may as well be nothing.

            And relying on self reporting isn't enough because people lie. Especially people who desperately want to get out of a country with an Ebola epidemic raging.  Our first couple of American evacuees with Ebola survived after obtaining care in the US. It's not out of the question that someone in west Africa who fears he or she has been exposed would want to make damn sure that if they did get sick they'd already be in the US and lie to get here. 

            I think healthcare workers who were with Ebola patients during their most contagious phase without 100% coverage and the right training as to how to safely remove that coverage should be in supervised quarantine for 21 days afterwards.  New teams should be rotated in and out so that, after quarantine, those workers can get on with their work, travel, what have you. There should be an end to sending  health care workers to deal with Ebola without proper protection so they don't need to be quarantined.

            Between the fact that taking temps casts such a wide net and that people may be carrying Ebola but showing no symptoms or elevated temp for so long makes that precaution seem more like doing something to make us feel like something is being done.

            We have to stop the spread at its source, in Africa while working on effective treatments that increase survival rate. Until we do, it makes sense to use travel restrictions in combination with quarantine. The only Americans traveling to west Africa should be medical personnel using military or specially chartered airplanes. Since there is no way to prevent all world travel and people may leave west Africa for other countries in which both that country's people and travelers through that country may be exposed and bring it to yet other countries nothing we do with quarantine and travel restrictions can completely solve the problem. There are too many uncontrollable factors. But taking no sensible precautions because they aren't perfect doesn't make sense either. 

            And, no, the nurse who worked with patched together protection to help a dying Ebola patient at his most contagious should not have been told by the CDC (she asked) that it was perfectly fine for her to get on a damn plane. Clearly it wasn't. This is now a worldwide economic crisis as well as a health crisis.

      1. One of my favorite parts of the debate – the con man is called a liar 

        Gardner has been repeatedly been asked on the campaign trail about his sponsorship of the federal Life Begins at Conception Act, which, as Clark pointed out, nearly everyone but Gardner agrees would outlaw abortion.

        "We are not going to debate that here tonight because it's fact," Clark said. "It would seem that a charitable interpretation would be that you have a difficult time admitting when you're wrong and a less charitable interpretation is that you're not telling us the truth.

        "Which is it?"

        Gardner said the bill is "simply a statement that I support life."

        "The personhood bill, congressman, is a bill. It's not a statement," Udall countered. "If it became law, it would ban all abortions and it would ban most common forms of contraceptives. Coloradans deserve the truth from you. You have to really give a straight answer."

        1. There's also his bogus insurance cancellation letter which he won't show anyone and which is probably just his list of donor calls to make.

           

          1. Yes just like 47% mitt and his taxes. All they have to do is provide the documentation and the story goes away. The fact they won't proves they are lying.

  3. No need to be concerned about Ebola, labeling ingredients for food, funding higher education, climate change, clean energy, or any other public enterprise or issue.

    There is a market solution. And it's always, always, better.

     

     

    1. Even the  angry young white men on redstate agree:

      If Cory Gardner doesn't win Colorado's Senate seat, it will be because of Latino voters. , not female voters, says AC's BFF Aaron Gardner at 444:37 in the video.

      Personally, I think that it will be both, plus a damn good GOTV effort, and voters being sick of Gardner's dodging and weaving on personhood.

  5. Folks, remember: A poll that utterly distorts the top line — Gardner ahead by 6 — will ALSO by definition distort the favorables/unfavorables.

    DO NOT listen the bullshit of lying trolls!

  7. Can the Pollsters discern a trend?

    Latest Polls (Per HuffPost)

    POLLSTER

    DATES

    POP.

    GARDNER

    UDALL

    UNDECIDED

    MARGIN

    CNN

    10/9 – 10/13

    665 LV

    50

    46

    –

    Gardner +4

    Quinnipiac NEW!

    10/8 – 10/13

    988 LV

    47

    41

    4

    Gardner +6

    SurveyUSA/Denver Post

    10/9 – 10/12

    591 LV

    45

    43

    7

    Gardner +2

    SurveyUSA/High Point University

    10/4 – 10/8

    800 LV

    46

    42

    5

    Gardner +4

    FOX

    10/4 – 10/7

    739 LV

    43

    37

    12

    Gardner +6

    CBS/NYT/YouGov

    9/20 – 10/1

    1,634 LV

    45

    48

    6

    Udall +3

    Rasmussen

    9/29 – 9/30

    950 LV

    48

    47

    3

    Gardner +1

    PPP (D-Americans for Tax Fairness Action Fund)

    9/19 – 9/21

    652 LV

    47

    45

    8

    Gardner +2

    Gravis Marketing

    9/16 – 9/17

    657 LV

    46

    39

    9

    Gardner +7

    Suffolk/USA Today

    9/13 – 9/16

    500 LV

    43

    42

    10

    Gardner +1
     

    1. Scroll all the way down to post that and it's here already!  Good article on why raising the minimum wage, even to just $10.10, would save 7.6 billion dollars.

    2. To my point, denverco, he is not 'pro-life', hie does not 'support life', he's 'pro-birth'.  In every other instance, whether it is being pro-war, anti-climate, giving Arthur Laffer a hand job, access to health care or a living wage – you can count him out.

  15. Even Jay Carney is troubled by the Dem Ebola incompetence:

    Former White House press secretary Jay Carney suggested Thursday that the White House take “substantive actions” in fighting Ebola, including putting in place flight restrictions.

    “I think substantive actions need to be taken, and they may involve flight restrictions, they may involve moving all patients to specific hospitals in the country that can handle Ebola, and I think those would be wise decisions to make,” Carney said on CNN.

    He continued, “I’m not an expert, but I think that would demonstrate a level of seriousness in response to this that is merited at this point.”

    1. A shame isn't that we don't have a surgeon general thanks to Senate republicans. And house republicans cut funding to the CDC – what a party that you support.

      1. The insidious reason that Cory Gardner cut funds to the CDC:

         

         

        The two tangled over cuts to the Center for Disease Control, with Udall saying the congressman cut funds that would have helped the agency and Gardner saying he opposed tax dollars going to programs such as Jazzercise.

    2. Get your facts straight jackass

      The Texas hospital where Duncan was treated has been criticized for how it responded to Duncan's symptoms, and for failing to put protocols in place to protect those health care workers who came in contact with him.

      In prepared testimony, Daniel Varga, the Chief Clinical Officer for the Texas company that includes Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital Dallas, apologized to the House committee.

      "Unfortunately, in our initial treatment of Mr. Duncan, despite our best intentions and a highly skilled medical team, we made mistakes. We did not correctly diagnose his symptoms as those of Ebola. We are deeply sorry," Varga said.   Where was republican governor Perry?

      1. They turned Duncan away w/ temp over 100 deg. because he had no insured, he was too foreign, and he was the wrong skin color.  It's Texas, what would you expect?

        Rick Perry was busy planning a trip to Europe, his upcoming criminal trial and his '16 presidential race……

        Don't mess with Texas!

  16. Degette at the Ebola hearings :

    The ranking Democrat Rep. Diana DeGette disagreed that a travel ban would be effective, noting that U.S. and global public health officials have not called for those types of bans.

    "We should not panic. We know how to stop Ebola outbreaks," she said. "The best way to stop Ebola is to fight it in Africa."

    DeGette and fellow Democrat Rep. Henry Waxman also blamed spending cuts for undercutting the CDC and National Institute of Health's ability to fight the disease.

    Waxman noted that the CDC budget has dropped by 12% since 2006 and that the public health emergency preparedness fund has been cut to $612 million from $1 billion in 2002.

    Degette also said it is "inevitable that another person will show up" at a U.S. hospital with Ebola symptoms.

    "There's no such thing as fortress America when it comes to infectious disease"

    1.  

      The only problem with this, as we can see from the postings of our resident clueless assworm, is that attempting to teach science to a cadre of serial science deniers is pretty much a futility.

      Nothing funny about Ebola, and the lack of concern about this issue when it was an "African" problem is criminal, but I gotta' admit — I do get a chuckle out of these right winger hand wringers.  "Please, please, please Mr, Pointy-headed scientist, please use your science I don't believe in or try to understand to save us from this biblical scourge . . . "

       

       

      1. That's the same Republican scientific approach they took to HIV/AIDS 30 years ago.  It doesn't affect "people like us."  And how did that work out? 

    1. That could happen . . . 

      . . . just as soon as there's a nominee that doesn't, you know, care about health issues  (like smoking or obesity or clean air or clean water or gun deaths or . . .)

  19. I don't think a travel ban will accomplish anything meaningful in the treatment or in arresting the spread of ebola.

    But, if we are to have a travel ban no one should be allowed to enter or to leave TX. Not even their governor

    1. I thought that rumor about a deal involving endorsing Romanoff in exchange for the Gardner endorsement seemed unlikely. But it's a pretty bland endorsement including praise for Romanoff, no real criticism, and basically saying they're both swell but Coffman has already been in congress fighting the good fight or something for years.

      Oddly it also mentions that Coffman only did an about face and became open to a less hard line attitude on immigration when he found himself suddenly representing a district with a lot of Hispanic voters. Did they mean that to sound the way it does?  

      Also praises him for being one of the few Rs to stand against military spending (though doesn't mention that he supported the government  shut down) which kind of undermines him and as a candidate who stands with vets, despite his own military experience and supposed efforts to move the Colorado VA project forward.  

      All in all, not nearly as forceful as their odd endorsement of Gardner, the party line obstructionist, Norquist pledge signing, federal personhood sponsoring guy they somehow see as the one with great new ideas on tax policy who would help make the Senate more functional and less polarized. It made absolutely no sense but was lots more enthusiastic than this endorsement .

  21. Eli Stokols debunks recent Gardner denial ad- thats (flipping thru a score of TV ads denouncing Cory ) that's not true. Not true? not so fast Eli points out only the FDA can make birth control over the counter, and that thanks to Obama care its paid for in most instances. another example; Cory's 4 corners plan?  "platitudes"  vague- so says Eli & you can go to his web site and read thru in a about sixty seconds Eli's words.

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