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February 12, 2016 07:11 AM UTC

Friday Open Thread

  • 74 Comments
  • by: Colorado Pols

“The trust of the innocent is the liar’s most useful tool.”

–Stephen King

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74 thoughts on “Friday Open Thread”

  4.  

    I got this from a site called "Mashable", 

     

    North Carolina reveals results of welfare applicant drug tests

     

    North Carolina revealed early results on Tuesday from a round of drug tests given to those applying for or living with the help of welfare.

    From the 7,600 recipients and applicants given an initial screening, social workers referred only 2% for drug testing. That amounted to 89 people excluding those who did not show up for the test. Of those 89, 21 people tested positive for drugs, representing less than 0.3% of the total number of those screened. 

    Kinda reminds me of voter fraud. .

     

    http://mashable.com/2016/02/10/north-carolina-welfare-drug-test/#AmxcF7zwDZqw

     

    1. A similar drug test screen among the Republican elected officials, party members and major donors revealed a 9.4% rate of drug abuse among those groups:

      Illicit drug use in the United States has been increasing.In 2013, an estimated 24.6 million Americans aged 12 or older—9.4 percent of the population—had used an illicit drug in the past month. This number is up from 8.3 percent in 2002. The increase mostly reflects a recent rise in use of marijuana, the most commonly used illicit drug.

       

      https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/drugfacts/nationwide-trends

      Mainly because, of course, they have the money to afford recreational drugs…

            3. Thank God(dess) the marijuana refugees have a place of safe harbor inside the four walls of our great state.  If Chris Christie was POTUS these kids would be either dead or in hiding.  

  5. Cliven Bundy and his team of insurrectionists are finally charged in their violent, anti-government, Fox News, local hate radio-encouraged (in other words: Mainstream Republican) thievery: 

    Cliven Bundy has been arrested over the charges in Willis’s complaint. His complaint charges Bundy of obstruction of justice; conspiracy to commit a crime against the United States; and assault on a federal officer, among other things. Multiple times, the complaint accuses Bundy of engaging in the “wrong use of force, fear, and violence.” It says Bundy “deliberately lied” to people about his situation in order to recruit, organize, and lead “hundreds of others in using armed force against law enforcement officers in order to achieve their criminal objective.”

    That criminal objective, of course, was avoiding paying about $1 million in grazing fees to the federal government — something Bundy has yet to do, despite being under federal court order since 1998 to either pay those fees or remove his cattle from public land. Instead of doing that, Bundy chose to take up arms against law enforcement officers. Two years later, his son inspired a group of others to do the same at the Malheur refuge, over a similar dispute over public lands.

    Would love to have the local cheerleaders of this despicable action held responsible as well………

     

    1. Bundy, in his initial hearing, always looking for a government handout, requested a court-appointed attorney.  The judge, understandably, looking at the millionaire in front of the court, said show me your financials first.

        1. The cheapskate will probably represent himself, which would force the court (I believe) to appoint a legal adviser anyway.

          Of course, after he loses, he can appeal based on incompetent representation 🙂

      1. They say the good die young, the Evil often long outlive their deeds. 

        Bernie: "Kissinger’s actions in Cambodia, when the United States bombed that country, overthrew Prince Sihanouk, created the instability for Pol Pot and Khmer Rouge to come in, who then butchered some 3 million people, one of the worst genocides in the history of the world.”

        I guess Hillary would be considered a smart strategist around here for her spin on Kissinger. It's truly a sign of how corrupt Democrats have become and how low some of them will go in a search of a worthless bipartisanship and those independent voters who are too stupid to figure out reality. And yes, I include Michael Bennet in my definition of corrupt. (Still waiting for CPols to tell me the smart politics in that.)

        I think Democrats can win with a principled, strong, and virtuous platform that doesn't neglect its most steadfast ideals. And that isn't asking too much of our paid help in Washington, DC.

          1. "I include Michael Bennet in my definition of corrupt……."  Sounds like a campaign ad for Tim Neville. And, of course, what the left doesn't want to see is the economic future of the western Pacific will be ceded to China if the TPP never gets ratified.

    2. Thanks, BC.  The uber-left's brief against Kissinger blames him for not swiftly ending a way whose roots goes back tp Ike and which reached full fury under LBJ.  It then blames him for a genocide carried out by a Communist regime that came tp power when we finally abandoned the war.  That makes as much sense as blaming the Poles for the Nazi holocaust because that wouldn't have happened if they had conquered Germany instead of vice versa.   I was in the Army at the time and assumed I would be sent to Vietnam.   But Nixon was elected and deescalated the war though he didn't immediately end it.  Bernie imbecilely blamed Kissinger for the domino theory, which in fact was an LBJ/Dean Rusk fantasy.   Nixon and Kissinger rejected it and exploited the Sino-Soviet split by playing the China Card which ultimately ended the Cold War.

      The world is complex, except in the moronic view of the hard left.  But the verdict of history will be that the LBJ/Dean Rusk visceral anti-Communism cost far more lives than the Nixon/Kissinger realpolitik approach.   Maybe the fact that they saved me from going to Vietnam explains why I never developed the spittle-dribbling hatred of Nixon/Kissinger that the left thinks is chic.  Maybe when Bernie wins a Noble peace prize I will begin to respect him too.   Until then, I will stick with

      realism over Trotskyite rantings. 

      Pax vobiscum.

      1. First, comparing Bernie to Trotsky is ridiculous.

        Following an appeal from Golda Meir to press Moscow to allow the emigration of Soviet Jewry, Kissinger is heard on the [Nixon] tapes to say:

        The emigration of Jews from the Soviet Union is not an objective of American foreign policy. And if they put Jews into gas chambers in the Soviet Union, it is not an American concern. Maybe a humanitarian concern.

        Maybe, it was, I guess?

        On September 12, eight days after Allende's election, Kissinger initiated discussion on the telephone with CIA director Richard Helm's about a preemptive coup in Chile. "We will not let Chile go down the drain," Kissinger declared. "I am with you," Helms responded. Their conversation took place three days before President Nixon, in a 15-minute meeting that included Kissinger, ordered the CIA to "make the economy scream," and named Kissinger as the supervisor of the covert efforts to keep Allende from being inaugurated.

        Hey, only 20-some-odd-thousand tortured and a few thousand dead, right?

        Kissinger talking with the Thai Foreign Minister:

        Kissinger: How many people did he [Ieng Sary, a leader of the Khmer Rouge] kill? Tens of thousands?

        Assistant Secretary Habib: Nice and quietly!! [referring to the Thai Foreign Minister's comment that Sary is nice and quiet]

        Foreign Minister:  Not more than 10,000.

        […]

        Kissinger: What do the Cambodians think of the United States?  You should tell them that we bear no hostility towards them.  We would like them to be independent as a counterweight to North Vietnam.

        Final death toll: one to three-plus million Cambodians.

        1. Sounds like some of the "uber left" brief that was referenced. As for Allende, the admitted Marxist, we'll never know how his government might have turned out. But, considering the parties in the Popular Unity Movement, I'd guess that Chile would have become an earlier version of Venezuela under Chavez/Maduro.

          In the peoples’ paradise” of Venezuela, if you want to be an opposition leader, you get to do it from inside a prison cell.

          And also worth noting that the far right still blames Nixon & Kissinger for the "loss" of Indo-China. Voyageur correctly notes that the world is complex. I wonder how many of you know that the US ran guns and other supplies to Ho Chi Minh during 1943 -45. Back then, Ho was as much of a nationalist as a Marxist. Then we made the major mistake of supporting the return of the French in 1946, which led to Dien Bien Phu in 1954, which led in turn to Eisenhower and Kennedy sending advisors, which led…….

          1. So, Allende, the democratically elected leader of his country, was a Marxist, and?  Do other countries not have the right to elect a leader we think is a bad one?  If they disagree with our leadership, would it be appropriate for them to do what we did in Chile to us?

            If you think I took Kissinger's words out of context, I'm happy to be corrected.  If you think his work was justifiable, that's fine, I disagree, but OK.  Just saying something is "uber left," as though that's some form of rational argument, is ridiculous.

          2. Bailing out the French in Indo China was incalcuably stupid.  Ike JFk and Lbj were all complicit.  Nixon at least came to realize that the only way to win that game was to lose it.  Incredibly , a few years later China invaded Vietnam only to be hurled back .  So much for the LBJ "domino theory" that bernie falsely attributed to Kissinger.

        2. Calling Bernie a trotskyite may be dated but is far from ridiculous.  He was an elector for the Spocialist Workers Party in 1980.  That party was founded by Leon Trotsky.  Look it up.

          1. Hillary Clinton was a Young Republican and a Goldwater girl.  She interned in the in House Leader's office for Gerald Ford and worked to get Nelson Rockefeller elected at the 1968 Republican convention.  People experiment, reason, and reach new conclusions.

            What parts of Bernie's platform do you believe are designed to bring into effect the permanent revolution and the dictatorship of the proletariat– tearing power from the hands of the propertied classes through mass terror?

            1. I dont claim that bernie is trotskyite today.  But he clearly was in 1980 when he was an elector on the Socialist Workers Party ticket.  Maybe B Kimiernie will tell us when he abandoned Trotsky for the kinder gentler socialism of today.  My guess is his years as mayor had something to do with it.  Its hard to pursue world revolution and keep the water system operating.  To bad Gov. Snyder didnt know that.  But tell me — Do you really think the republicans will give Bernie's Trotskyite past a pass if he becomes the nominee?

          2. Hey, the SWP had its talons everywhere in those days. They really are an unprincipled bunch. They tried hard to recruit me out of high school, but you lie to me once, I'm done.

            Nevertheless, they did some good organizing around stopping the Vietnam war and were one of the first organizations to march for legalizing abortion. They still do some good organizing today, if you can ignore that they're opportunistic sneaks who will do or say anything to coopt a genuine grassroots movement into The Party.

            If you like irony, Vger, the first Black Lives Matter protesters who interrupted Bernie Sanders at a rally in Seattle were SWP Trots. (through socialistaction, and the Black Agenda Report, which is Glenn Ford's SWP attempt to coopt the BLM movement. Glenn Ford, btw, is actually a Canadian who broadcasts over the northern border. ). 

            I don't think that trend has continued; most BLM marchers today have nothing to do with the Trots, but they may have picked Bernie Sanders partly because it was easy – the man had the security of a Girl Scout cookie convention – and partly because they were pissed at him for being a "bad socialist".

            1. The Trots don't seem to  like bernie much today.  I just read a tedious denunciation of him as a right deviationist becauuse he is working within the Democratic party instead of a third party … which went so well with. Nader.  Seriously, the Trots adore Nader.  I can't think of the Trots without recalling Lenin's pamphlet: "Left Wing Communism, an infantile disorder."  You nailed it, Vladimir.

            1. I hadn't seen that before, Daft. It seems pretty conclusive….and, It pisses me off. In 1969, the year after Nixon sabotaged the peace talks in Paris, 16,000 Americans and 28,000 North Vietnamese were killed, making it the deadliest year of the war. I wonder if Tricky Dick felt his Presidency was worth all those lives.

              I was a young teen protester then, singing, "Give Peace a Chance",working with Quakers, getting thrown off the Air Force Academy.

              I never would have predicted that my own President would have sabotaged the chance for peace to preserve his own power. The Socialist Workers Party may be opportunistic frauds and liars, but at least they didn't cynically condemn 45,000 people to die in order to preserve a Republican presidency.

              1. Mama, the peace talks started on Jan 20 1969.  The treaty was signed Jan 23 1973.  Do you really think starting them a couple months earler would have altered that timeline. North Vietnamjust talked until America gave up.  The breaking point was the Tet Offensive..   LBJ wanted to talk, yes, but wasn'tready to surtender.   The North Vietnamese just outlasted us.  Read Col Harry Summers "On Strategy" for the best account of how and why we lost the war.

            2. Of course,daft one, you assume that the peace talks would have produced an immediate settlement Which is where you veer off into la la land.  In both vietnam and korea they dragged on and on..  The killing went on while negotiators haggled about the shape of the table.  So the Nixon sspawned delay, if it occurred at all, probably didn't affect the outcome.  The North sstalled until we bugged out after the often cited "decent interval."   Read "On strategy" to learn how and why we lost the war.  Or keep communing with UFOs, I dont care.

               

              1. So you're wrong on the facts twice.  The talks began in March 1968, and Nixon did not take de-escalate the war upon taking office. Many historians and writers including that noted Trotskyite George Will believe Nixon sabotaged the peace talks which were underway  as he was running for president. The point is not how or why we lost the war, it's the scumbaggery of Richard Nixon who you defended a few posts above.  I've presented support for my case.  You've provided diversion and derision.  Less persuasive as I see it.

      3. Pretty much the curmudgeonly response I was hoping for. That was way too easyheart.

        PS. There was a lot more to the Kissinger reign of realpolitik than Vietnam but I'd hate to see your blood pressure get any higher than it must be already so… enough for now.

        But Trotskyite?  Pulease!  

        1. I wouldn't consider Bernie to be a Trotskyite, but Bernie is clueless when it comes to figuring out how to pay for all his proposed give-a-ways. Another version of "voodoo economics," but in the other party this time.

          Trivia question: who was the only political figure of the 20th century assassinated by someone wielding a mountaineering ice axe?  Answer: Leon Trotsky.

          1. And Republicans are clueless about how not to drive an economy right into the ground with trickle down voodoo so those concerned about jobs, the stock market, unemployment, economic vibrance in general are always better off voting for a Dem than for a R plus you get people who aren't trying to get the government  all up into your sex life. History proves that again and again right up through Obama's admnistration which, in any case, has a better economy to show for itself than what it got handed by your last boy. For the economy, you're better of voting for a Dem fence post than for any R.

            1. To his credit, G.W. Bush was seeing the light near the end of his term and it was Bush who started the bailouts and stimulus spending. 

              Of course, it was his actions; and those of his overseer, “President” Cheney, that started the whole mess in 2001. Can’t cut taxes and engage in two wars, one of which was unnecessary, and expect to come out OK. Reagan never did anything like that and neither did Bush Sr.

              1. Nobody has ever taken their country to war while cutting taxes. It's insane. Cheney/Bush believed we'd just be swapping out Saddam for Chalabi, a few weeks tops, and all their oil would be ours. Or Halliburton's which to Cheney was the same thing. Hard to top that duo for crazy. I still have my Cheney/Bush I'm with Stupid/I'm with Satan t-shirt.

        3. PPS. 

          The fact remains that not just the uber left but the overwhelming  majority of grass roots Dems who know a thing about it any more hate Kissie and everything he stands for, making HRC's repeated and completely unnecessary embracing of the man not her best primary political choice. Love Kissie or hate him, this is an example of HRC's puzzling political cluelessness after all these years.

          Meanwhile Bill's instincts seem to work only for Bill. His bitter attacks on Bernie aren't working any better than his bitter attacks on Obama did.  Remember when he dismissed Obama's S. Carolina win by trying to make him out to be no more a serious candidate than Jesse Jackson because of course "those" people are going to vote for him? A hissy fit partly brought on by African Americans having a new favorite and black comics no longer referring to him as the first black president?  The Clintons aren't exactly the least petty vindictive power couple in politics.

          What the Clinton machine is good at is insider party/big donor politics and, with the Dem super delegate system, that should be enough to get HRC the nomination. Making Kissinger her bestie will definitely not be helpful. It pisses off Dems and doesn't position her better with any demo in return. Except you, Voyageur, and she's already got you. Most other Kissinger fans, few as those may be these days, are Republicans. 

          1. making HRC's repeated and completely unnecessary embracing of the man not her best primary political choice 

            Agreed……I don't know where the hell she thinks she's going with that move. And she's not usually that stupid. In fact scheming and calculating are her strong suit. 

              1. She does have a tendency to say things without thinking about how they will sound coming out of her mouth (e.g., "we were flat broke," or her ass-kissing Wall St. was due to the fact that 9/11 occurred). Reminds me of John Kerry and his "I voted for the $89 billion before I voted against it."

                1. Also…. "That's what they offered". So she's against Citizens United because money corrupts politics but how dare we apply that to her taking whatever big bucks are offered because, of course, in her case, money is not corrupting. How dare anyone so much as imply it possibly could be?

                  You can't be an anti-Citizens United crusader and get in a huff over being questioned about taking whatever you're offered from the very same interests that flood our political landscape with big bucks at the very same time.  

        4. Bc, the Washington Post reported Bernie was an elector for Socialist Workers Party candidate Andrew Pulley in 1980.  Bernie confirmed that fact in a 1988 interview.  The Swp was founded by Trotsky. 

          In college he was pretty much Young Peoples Socialist League.  Thats fine, they were democratic socialists whose hero was WalterReuther.  I never joined YPSL but many of my crowd did.  Remember the great AlexGarber at CU ?

          But somewhere around 1980 Bernie at least flirted with the hard left and the Swp.  Get used to hearing about it.  If he wins the nomination the GOP will have a field day.

          1. He's not going to get the nomination so you can stop hyperventilating. My Grandpa was a hard lefty immigrant from Ukraine who had been a …. wait for it… Trotksy partisan in his revolutionary youth. So the name doesn't really have that "boo" effect on me. My Trotskyite was my warm affectionate grandpa who doted on me. He had mellowed, by my time, into more of a Roosevelt trade unionist Dem.  But I do agree that everything you say would come out would and it would be a very big problem. Jewish former Trotskyite grandpas don't tend to get elected President of the US. The highest office mine ever held was VP of his union.

            2. But since that seems to be all the rage today:

              The summer of 1971 Hillary Clinton interned at the Oakland, California, law firm of Treuhaft, Walker and Burnstein. The firm was well known for its support of constitutional rights, civil liberties, and radical causes (two of its four partners were current or former Communist Party members)

              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Clinton

              Obviously, this will be used against her.

        1. Old material, but still informative. Interesting to note that the 28 point pledge that Laurens County, SC asked candidates to sign was probably unconstitutional. There is "that little thingy" called Article VI of the US Constitution that bans religious tests or qualifications to hold public office.

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