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June 23, 2016 06:24 AM UTC

Thursday Open Thread

  • 54 Comments
  • by: Colorado Pols

“The only foes that threaten America are the enemies at home, and these are ignorance, superstition and incompetence.”

–Elbert Hubbard

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54 thoughts on “Thursday Open Thread”

  1. Shadows of 1968

    When I started reading this, I had to check to make sure this was not a story about a Trump rally, but really about a meeting of the New York delegates to the Democratic National Convention.

    I’m a Bernie Sanders Delegate. I Was Just Assaulted by a Clinton Supporter at a Democratic Party Meeting. –  Moumita Ahmed

    Party unity is a two way street – that is, unless you are the Democratic Pary establishment. Then:

    The entire time it felt like the Democratic Party didn’t want unity; they just wanted 100% compliance from us, and some were willing to physically assault people like me to get it.

    Now, before, you start your excuses, keep in mind these were party delegates – activiists:

    Clinton DelegateIt turns out the man is well-known within the Democratic Party in New York. He has hosted meet-and-greets and fundraisers at his home in Granville, according to Sanders surrogate and at-large Sanders delegate Nomiki Konst. But Ahmed said officials working the meeting claimed they had no idea who had hit her with a cane.

    NEW YORK DEMOCRATS ANOINT CUOMO AS CHAIR AS CLINTON DELEGATE STRIKES SANDERS DELEGATE WITH CANE – Shadowproof

    And, here is what Konst, a life long Democrat, had to say:

    I’ve been a Democrat my whole life. My parents were very involved in the Democratic Party. My mom was an elected official. I’ve raised money for Democrats. This is the fifth national convention I’m going to. I’ve worked on presidential campaigns. I even used to volunteer for Hillary Clinton. This is not the Democratic Party that I want to be a part of. I’m disgusted. We’ve given up on all the things that we stand for.

    May I humbly suggest, that if the Democratic Party and Hillary Clinton want the support of the Sanders followers, this is not the way to get it. 

    1. Let's make the unlikely assumption that dodd is telling the truth.  One of the 16 million Democrats who voted for hillary punched one of the 12.5 Democrats who voted for Bernie.  This proves every single Democrat for Hillary is a goon and a criminal and we should nominate bernie in penance,.  Did I get my mind right, MJ.?

      1. Let's make the unlikely assumption that dodd is telling the truth.

        V, you obviously did not bother to read the articles before you called me a liar or you would have seen the video documenting the attack. In any event, I was merely passing on what is appearing in the progressive press. Go ahead, shoot the messenger.

        I must say, sometimes the Democrats on this site live in a bubble as much as Republicans.

        1. I didn't say you were a liar.   I merely pointed out that it was unlikely you were telling the truth.  The horrifying fact that a single Bernista claims that a single Clinton backer was mean to her is such an atrocity as to overshadow the holocaust itself, sayeth the Doddster.  Wake me when I give a damn.

    2. Are you under the delusion that Cuomo would not have been selected as the head of the state delegation under any rational circumstance?

      Clinton won the state 58-42. The result of that victory is generally that her camp gets to decide the head of the delegation.

      1. I never said that. Process is as important as objectives – means as ends. The Democratic Party establishment is alienating a whole generation of voters. It may well start with this general election. Sanders supporters represent a significant portion of the Party. You can't continuously treat them shabbily and turn around and expect their support.

        2. I doubt that even such a boneheaded move as denying the opportunity to nominate other candidates from the floor (assuming what happened is as Sanders supporters report it) is going to alienate a whole generation of voters.

          Sanders hasn't exactly treated this well himself. He's lost the support I gave him at the caucuses because he has failed to act with dignity and respect for the majority of Democrats who voted for Hillary Clinton over his very noble (at first) campaign. He will not be running again for the Presidency in 4 or 8 years.

          A new generation of politician will have to rise up, and it is how the party grows and reacts in these next few years that will determine where we go. Hillary's renewal of support of the 50-state party bodes well for us. The progressives are the grassroots, and younger citizens are increasingly our new activists. The party fails to keep up with these forces if, like some of the Northeastern state parties, they are filled with entrenched insiders. It wins wherever new blood enters to strengthen it and expand it.

      2. An incident or two ain't shades of 1968. Not that I deny the possibility of HRC supporter ass holery. Or Bernie supporter ass holery. I guess what I find less than useful is ridiculous hyperbolery. And yes, spell check. I meant to spell all those words that way.

        1. Precisely.BC. in any event, 1968 was famously a "police riot"   hardly the equivalent of a old guy poking a young woman with his cane after she admittedly verbally acosted him.

          1. That's what first comes to mind but I took into account that by simply saying "68" Dodd meant not just Chicago but all the unrest and violence of  '68. Don't know how old he is but you and I know comparing these incidents to 1968 is kind of like comparing any pol you don't like to Hitler. The only thing that does remind me of '68 is the Dems' glorious House floor sit in. I got dragged out of a sit in a time or two myself back in the day. Not to compare myself at all to courageous heroes like Congressman Lewis. I never faced down anything close to the terrifying violence they braved.

    2. Gray, not everything that's uncomfortable is from a "rat hole". Dodd isn't a troll – he's someone you disagree with politically. Large difference. It probably happened  just the way Moumita Ahmed said that it did. There are people who overreact and are violent or unstable in any political group, including among Hillary Clinton's devotees.

      As for me, I just want to know what the hell Vger was doing at the New York convention.

      1. And, of course, no sanders supporter has ever gotten out of line, ever.  Those people egged at the Trump rallies and beaten up were attacked by buddhist monks

          1. Obviously, Fox fabricated all those "Fuck Trump" signs, threw the eggs and beat up the Trump supporters all to boost ratings.   Got it.   "Fuck Trump" is such an eloquent argument to win the hearts of the middle class, got it.  So how come I saw the same goons in New York and New Mexico on MSNBC?  

            1. " . . . saw the same goons in New York and New Mexico . . . "

              Ummmmm, OK . . . 

              2016 looks to be the year we're all Tri-Guardian Drumpf ???

               

               

               

            2. Well, you did just erase the justified ire of  millions of Latino and Muslim anti-Trump protesters, by implying that they must all be secret Sandernistas.

              Just come on out and say it, instead of pussyfooting around with your inferences. Every anti-Trump incident, every "Fuck Trump" sign, must have been bought and paid for by Bernie Sanders 2016. V says so, and so it must be.

              I was actually trying to tease you a bit, asking what you were doing in New York. I don't really think that you would hit a protester, even for the honor of Sweet Hillary.

              Yes, I have critiqued Sanders supporters, most recently on caucus99percent, and on here, with their bogus outrage at Elizabeth Warren for endorsing HRC. Bluecat saw it. I guess you missed it. So you'll just have to keep on "wondering" as long as you deny what's in front of you.

              I wrote several long comments about the anti-Trump protests when they first began emerging. And no, I am not going to go back and cite them. As I recall, I just called it an upwelling of outrage against Trump's racism, and related it to the kinds of things I hear from my Mexicano students. That's still how I see them.

              Not everyone sees things in terms of Dem vs. Republican, or Sanders v. Clinton, or what have you. Many people see Trump's pronouncements as "This pendejo wants to deport my family, or not let them into the country." Hence the leaderless, spontaneous,  and yes, somewhat thuggish, grassroots protests at Trump rallies.

              Back to Dodds' point – I think – it would have been normal and nice of the Clinton campaign to decry and denounce even this one isolated violent incident – "We do not support violent behavior", etc. If that denouncement happened, it wasn't covered in the articles Dodd cited.

              1. If that denouncement happened, it wasn't covered in the articles Dodd cited. 

                 

                And had it happened, surely James would have posted it because he, you know, never misses a chance to make Hillary look good.

                I can't imagine you meant to tease me by implying I was in New York.   I was absolutely serious in saying that if I had, I would have run the wretch down with my walker.

                As to the violent protestors — I have seen a few Bernie posters, not many and those were in New York, no Hillary ones but they may have been there.   The protestors are mostly young, tending to bernie's crowd, but are hardly under his control.  They were, however, part of his problem.  Now, they are Hillary's problem

                But face it, these stupid goons are the best thing Trump has going for him.  Unruly crowds waving Mexican flags — Oh, that's a great way to appeal to middle America.   "Fuck Trump" signs  are great too, if you''re Paul Mannafort.  And nothing says "God Bless America" like forcing the police to use tear gas to protect innocent lives who dare to like Trump.   Too bad "counter-productive" is too big a word for their tiny brains.

                Now at least one man has been arrested for trying to kill Trump.   That's been my private nightmare all along — I lived through the assassination of JFK, King, RFK, the wounding of Wallace, Reagan, Gabby Giffords,   the murder of Goodman, Cheney, Schwerner, Viola Liuzzo, Medgar Evers and hundreds more.  As H, Rap Brown said, violence is as American as Apple pie.

                Now, Bernie is being criticized for keeping his secret service detail, at a cost of 1.3 million through the convention.  Keep it Bernie — there are Chapmans out there gunning for you.

                I'm sure the Secret Service has foiled several attempts to kill Hillary.  Let's hope they stay successful.  And yes, protect Trump.   All we need is a President Christie bringing fascism to power on the image of a martyred Trump.

                 

                   

                 

                 

        2. No, as usual when you try to speak for me, V, you get my mind wrong. I think the New York curmudgeon hitting Ahmed with a cane  may have been a real incident – I haven't bothered to research it more, and clearly, you haven't either. It doesn't really matter. As you say, and as I said,

          There are people who overreact and are violent or unstable in any political group, including among Hillary Clinton's devotees.

          Replying to your comment further down:

          And, of course, no sanders supporter has ever gotten out of line, ever.  Those people egged at the Trump rallies and beaten up were attacked by buddhist monks

          I didn't say anything about any Sanders supporter. I saw the woman who was egged, and that was deplorable; however, I also remember that there wasn't any evidence that the egger was a Sanders supporter. All of the reporters on that scene said that it was a leaderless crowd of young people angry at Trump. Anyhoo, she egged them on.

          Let's see, which fallacies did you use this time? I'm gonna go with "Two wrongs make a right" and the ever-popular "straw man".

          1. No, you did admit that out of millions of Clinton supporters it is inevitable that some would be assholes.   Like you, I didn't check James' claim because it was irelevant.   But I dinged you because, precisely as you say, "I didn't say anything about any Sanders supporters."

            I wonder if you could…say anything negative, anyway?  If anything Sanders supporters are somewhat more likely than Hillary backers to be violent because they are disproportionately young and male, and testosterone poisoning is much more likely in that group than Hillary's core of women over 40.

            And no, that wasn't me whacking the self-proclaimed Bernie victim,  You know I don't use a cane.   But if somebody runs over her with a walker, I plead the fifthsmiley

            You almost made it to reality.   Try a little harder next time.

             

          2. Voyageur's favorite tactic is to take what you say and twist it and exaggerate it into to something you didn't say for the sole purpose of ridiculing you simply because he disagrees. He is a "special" kind of person.

            1. Wheres the Doddster sticks to the tried and true tactic of lying like a trooper — as in comparing a single dubious incident between two delegates with the widespread riots of 1968.

  3. My husband saw an article a few weeks ago that disappeared hours after it was out that said Donald Trump (who denies climate change) was going to one of his golf courses in Scotland regarding a permit to build a retaining wall that was threatening his golf course by rising water.  Of course, he can't let this out because it wouldn't go over with his crazy base that states climate change is a hoax.

    2. Re-posting answer from elsewhere.

      Colorado law prohibits someone for running for more than one office at a time. But the Elections Division has stated that they're not 100% sure if the prohibition applies to Federal offices.

  6. These RCP averages aren't good news for a GOP already running a candidate with the highest negatives in history while controlling both houses of a historically unpopular Congress and with many more Senate seats to defend in competitive races than in 2014. Obama's ever rising approval rating would seem to make the strategy of attacking everything Obama and tying HRC to him as if he were a sinking stone perhaps not as effective as they think it is. But what else have they got? Lying Hillary? With a candidate like Trump compared to whom every other liar on the planet is a hopeless lightweight and who is now being fact checked every time he opens his mouth? For Dems this is the opposite of what Rs faced with GW's dismal negative rating back in 2008. Rs must combat these Dem friendlier numbers with an out of control narcissistic sociopathic ignoramus they can hardly bring themselves to say they endorse. Game on.

    RCP Poll Averages

    President Obama Job Approval

    Approve 50.3

    Disapprove 45.3

    Approve +5.0

    2016 Generic Congressional Vote

    Democrats 45.5

    Republicans 43.3

    Democrats +2.2

    Direction of Country

    Right Direction 26.8

    Wrong Track 65.0

    Wrong Track +38.2

    Congressional Job Approval

    Approve 13.0

    Disapprove 77.6

    Disapprove +64.6

     

     

     

      1. I honestly think that's too generic to be useful either way, PR.   Let's see how good demo are at tying the likes of Tipton and Coffman to Trump in individual races.

      2. No and I understand all about generic v specific especially in the gerrymandered world of the House.  I include it only as part of an over all picture that doesn't bode well for a glorious Republican take over of the WH, retention of the Senate and their present strength majority in the House based on a strategy of demonizing Obama and all things Obama and tying all Dem candidates to them. In the not very distant past Obama was under water, not rising almost every damn day, and Rs had the small generic edge so…. not the direction the GOP would like to see these numbers moving in this summer. Especially in terms of the WH and the Senate with Trump leading their tickets. It's certainly better than the other way around.

    2. The last polling numbers are fun but meaningless. Poll after poll shows that the public's approval rating of their own sentor or congressman pretty much follows the outcome of the last election. They like their guy but despise all the others.

      1. Not "meaningless" since the improvement has  been going on for months now and since, unlike 2014, It's the Rs who have to defend the greatest number of vulnerable Senate seats in competitive states. Gerrymandering makes House seats a different issue ( there are always more votes cast nationwide for Dem House candidates than for Rs but not always within the right gerrymandered borders) but Dems have held the House majority before and will again, though probably not all at once in one election but stranger this things have happened and this cycle is already stranger than fiction.

        Of course your position that it's all "meaningless" will no doubt make you feel better when you vote for various no hoper third party candidates instead of insufficiently pure Dems, You can just tell yourself it won't make any difference (which it won't because most will have more sense) and feel self righteous about your superior principles as you cast all of your pissy protest votes.

        We'll just have to see how things go in November, won't we?

    1. Trump may accomplish the final parting of the CEO/Country Club wing of the GOP from the batshit crazy, social conservative (read bigoted, racist, fearful, hateful, religiously self righteous and intolerant xenophobe) wing. The instability, irrationality and lack of predictability Trump promises to make the cornerstones of his domestic and international policy aren't aren't exactly great for conducting business.They also know just how full of it his claims of fabulous  wealth and success really are.

  10. Justice Anthony Kennedy — joined by Justices Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Stephen Breyer and Sonia Sotomayor — ruled for a 4-3 majority that the university program does not violate the Constitution’s guarantee of equal protection of the laws.

    This is actually yuuuge because Kennedy voted with the majority.   Kagan abstained because she worked on the case before coming to the court.  Unlike the immigration vote — probably a 4-4 tie — this is a majority that will hold without a 9th justice, 0r even if the empty seat is filled with a Scalia clone, assuming Kagan could join in a later case.

  11. CNN hires Crack Whore to Puff Trump

    CNN, not content to have Jeffrey Lord on its payroll to serve as Trump's Lickspittle-at Arms, has hired Corey Lewandowski to join its Panel of Has Beens.  Wasn't there a day when CNN pretended to have integrity?   I feel sorry for John King for having to associate with this sleaze ball outfit.

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